Support NeoGAF

[Lagamorph]

As angry as I am, this isn't helping anyone. You can't blame someone for believing the mounds of BS they see every day in the papers, on Facebook and so on.

Yes you can. The information for them to educate themselves was right there and easily available. People who chose to ignore it when it comes to a decision this important should not receive any sympathy.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

If leaving somehow became a massive success and the UK becomes amazingly rich and better than the rest of Europe with a happy people and society overall like the leave politicians have been promising then I'll gladly get behind this. Reality doesn't give credence to such optimistic views though. Look through the history of huge politician promises and how they failed to meet them.

 

[VDenter]

So they had a second chance and they blew it.

 

[Philly40]

Imagine people with dual UK/US citizenship right now. They must be losing their minds.

Boris has dual citizenship, I would imagine he's rubbing his hands together with glee at all this

 

[Cromat]

I really don't get what Labour is doing here. They were all elected on a pro-EU platform.
Saying "the people have made their choice" makes no sense. 52% of the people made their choice. The other 48% opposes. By that logic all Labour MPs should become Tories because they won the 2015 general elections.

Corbyn just hates the EU because he is thick and dogmatic.

 

[cyberheater]

I wonder if Nicola Sturgeon will now call for a second referendum?

 

[Morat]

Imagine people with dual UK/US citizenship right now. They must be losing their minds.

Hello. And yes.

It would be nice to be to have at least one side that was neither insane or fascist. Also, I grew up in Spain but don't have nationality for added joy.

 

[Flintty]

They literally did though.
They were warned that's what they were doing and they did it anyway.

There was a shit load of scare mongering from both sides during the campaign so it's hardly surprising a lot of it was ignored. People likely voted according to what they saw as benefit rather than negative consequence.

Anyway, it's not going to be as bad as you lot make it out to be. At least we don't have Trump 😂

For what it's worth, I still think we're doing the right thing.

 

[PJV3]

I wonder if Nicola Sturgeon will now call for a second referendum?

She has to wait for shit to hit the fan, either dogmatic Tory policy or the country turning to shit.

She needs anger to overcome fear and caution.

 

[Dougald]

So they had a second chance and they blew it.

It's political suicide without a dramatic shift in public opinion, which hasn't happened

At this point nobody is going to shift from either camp without hard evidence, which means 'Brexit means Brexit', whatever your thoughts. It's that or ignore the referendum and kick the can down the road 3 years to 2020 when we end up with UKIP + Tory

 

[Garjon]

Not sure where I ever blamed anyone in this thread, but if I'm going to point the finger at anyone, I'll point it at Boris Johnson for throwing his weight behind the leave vote in a catastrophically misplaced attempt to gain brownie points for a 2020 leadership bid

I edited my original post and then forgot to fix it, whoops! Sorry I meant people who have a go at Leavers aren't helping anyone.

 

[RulkezX]

It's hilarious how badly GAF wants to see the UK burn.

I wonder if Nicola Sturgeon will now call for a second referendum?

It's not happening, she's barely pushing it her self because economically it'll be an even harder sell than last time.

 

[openrob]

MP's cast their votes to trigger article 50 this evening, and boy is Labour in for a blood bath. 144 MPs voted against the motion, many of them being from the Labour party (20% of Labour). This went against Jeremy's Corbyn's 3 line whip.

So how many Tory Mo's voted to stop it?
It will be interesting to see where the other 67 MP's were from.

 

[Xun]

Do you know what's worse than people who voted leave? Remainers who hope the UK burns and people suffer. That attitude is fucking shameful and I read it way too often on GAF. It makes my blood boil.

Their ignorance will greatly impact my life and goals, so for me it's personally acceptable wanting them to suffer.

I was once proud of being British, but those days are unfortunately gone.

The only solace I can take is knowing London mostly voted with common sense.

 

[travisbickle]

So how many Tory Mo's voted to stop it?
It will be interesting to see where the other MP's were from.

There's 50 odd SNP MPs, I think?

 

[PJV3]

It's hilarious how badly GAF wants to see the UK burn.

It doesn't make Any difference so I don't mind, what will be will be. I can see why some in the rest of Europe are furious, we are possibly badly destabilising the region.

 

[Alienfan]

Never thought I'd get to witness the decline of two superpowers in my lifetime

 

[Auctopus]

Theresa May will be out of office and doing speeches for 150k a pop before the end of the year.

 

[cyberheater]

She has to wait for shit to hit the fan, either dogmatic Tory policy or the country turning to shit.

She needs anger to overcome fear and caution.

I kinda hope she does though. I've vote yes this time.

 

[Flintty]

Their ignorance will greatly impact my life and goals, so for me it's personally acceptable wanting them to suffer.

Holy shit.

"I'm affected badly by this decision so now everyone should crash and burn".

Stay classy.

 

[chromatic9]

I wonder if Nicola Sturgeon will now call for a second referendum?

I really hope so. They should be able to join the EU, its a separate country that's simply part of a small union and not a region like Catalonia.

 

[CS_Dan]

Never thought I'd get to witness the decline of two superpowers in my lifetime

Calling the UK a superpower in 2017 is more than a little generous

 

[RulkezX]

It doesn't make Any difference so I don't mind, what will be will be. I can see why some in the rest of Europe are furious, we are possibly badly destabilising the region.

Fuckers should have thought of that when they were giving us shit scores at Eurovision then.

 

[kirblar]

Holy shit.

"I'm affected badly by this decision so now everyone should crash and burn".

Stay classy.

Sadly, if they don't get burned, they don't learn.

 

[tuxfool]

There was a shit load of scare mongering from both sides during the campaign so it's hardly surprising a lot of it was ignored. People likely voted according to what they saw as benefit rather than negative consequence.

Anyway, it's not going to be as bad as you lot make it out to be. At least we don't have Trump 😂

For what it's worth, I still think we're doing the right thing.

The British version of #bothsides.

Yes, you get to be Trump's bitch.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's not worse for you. Eventually, you'll get rid of trump. It's unlikely the UK will be back in the EU during the first half of this century, if ever.

I mean, it's not a contest and we're both of our countries are fucked, but saying "eh, we'll replace him in 4-8 years and then everything will go back to normal" seems extremely naïve. You underestimate the damage he can and will do.

 

[pulsemyne]

Ah the poor Daily Fail don't seem to realise that Churchills is a founding father of the EU and supported a united states of europe. Either they are thick or....nah they just are thick as fuck.

 

[Xun]

Holy shit.

"I'm affected badly by this decision so now everyone should crash and burn".

Stay classy.

Where did I ever say that everyone should crash and burn?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Wait, you cant blame educated grown adults for the consequences of their voting decisions?

What the heck.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's not worse for you. Eventually, you'll get rid of trump. It's unlikely the UK will be back in the EU during the first half of this century, if ever.

I mean, it's not a contest (my post was merely a spot of gallows humor, not a real challenge to shittiness ) and both of our countries are pretty fucked, but saying "eh, we'll replace him in 4-8 years and then everything will go back to normal" seems extremely naïve. You underestimate the damage he can and will do.

And to keep on topic with the specific shittiness at hand, I'd lean towards "if ever" to be honest. Methinks looking to worst case scenario as the most likely one seems like the best approach these days. I wouldn't be surprised if we live to see the EU dissolve, and on a relatively brief timeline at that. Yay. What a time to live. Woo.

 

[Garjon]

Yes you can. The information for them to educate themselves was right there and easily available. People who chose to ignore it when it comes to a decision this important should not receive any sympathy.

Why would anybody double-check a news story when everybody else parrots it as fact? There is where the whole discussion on fake news came from - if you repeat a lie enough times eventually people will believe it. Social media sites create echo chambers that filter out the challenging viewpoints so now even though fake news itself is nothing new, combined with the systems we now use to access the news, it has become a problem; fake information was also right there and was even more easily accessible.

 

[Flintty]

Where did I ever say that everyone should crash and burn?

Well you know that any repercussions from Brexit aren't only going to affect the leave voter right? You said it's only right for them to suffer. When you say 'them' you're including everyone cos any bad shit from this will be indiscriminatory.

 

[Fularu]

Thanks for the show of support to the people who didn't want to leave. Really makes this feel so much better for me.

You won't see support from mainland europeans. From the second The UK joined the EU, they did their very damn best to undermine it every chance they got, stall everything and keep asking for special treatment because "reasons".

There's a reason the UK had to wait for De Gaulle's death before joining the EU could be considered a thing.

 

[Symphonia]

On the splendid occasion of the glorious defeat.

Sorry, am I not supposed to be pissed off at the UK being fucked over again?

 

[Lagamorph]

I wonder if Nicola Sturgeon will now call for a second referendum?

If she called it right now she'd pretty much destroy her ambition of independent Scotland forever.

People keep saying stuff like "Well at least now we'll get indyref2" and "Indyref 2 when?" without realising that general support for Scottish independence has gone down, not up. If another referendum were to be called now and the result was another No, then it'd destroy any potential argument for another referendum anytime in the next 50-100 years.

Even in the unlikely result of a Yes vote, that would be Scotland cutting its nose to spite its face. Scotland would then be facing the prospect of leaving both the UK AND the EU, and no, there is no possibility of Scotland retaining its EU membership. The EU made that perfectly clear during the last referendum, despite Alec Salmond's dreamworld insistence to the contrary (Much like his currency union delusions).

Scotland would basically be put into the Hard Brexit No deal position and then be starting from scratch. Amongst all that economic turmoil it'd need to find some way to adopt the Euro in order to begin the application process for joining the EU, then be faced with economic tests lasting years before any hope of joining the EU could begin to become a reality.

Leaving the UK would, in the short to mid term, absolutely be a bigger disaster for Scotland than Brexit, and there's no guarantee of it being any better in the long term either, and the odds certainly wouldn't be good.

 

[Jezbollah]

I wonder if Nicola Sturgeon will now call for a second referendum?

She wont call for a second referendum, because right now she would lose. In a couple of years, maybe. Depends on what happens during negotiations with the EU.

 

[Ash735]

How about we blame the lack of young voter turn out when it's their generation that's getting screwed the most out of this, I mean yeah they didn't vote for this, but then you could also say it's their fault for NOT voting at all.

 

[Pyramid head]

As angry as I am, this isn't helping anyone. You can't blame someone for believing the mounds of BS they see every day in the papers, on Facebook and so on. I do blame the MPs who can foresee the looming disaster and vote to leave anyway because they value their careers above the doing what's right for the country.

Why can't I blame them for believing it? I share the same background as them. I share the same education as them. I saw the exact same transparent bullshit as they did. I've shared the same years of endless political lies. I looked at the same Nazi fucking propaganda as they did. I could see no reason to vote leave at all, but then I'm not the type of person who would sacrifice anything just so long as I believed it would be taken from immigrants too.

 

[ecosse_011172]

If she called it right now she'd pretty much destroy her ambition of independent Scotland forever.

People keep saying stuff like "Well at least now we'll get indyref2" and "Indyref 2 when?" without realising that general support for Scottish independence has gone down, not up. If another referendum were to be called now and the result was another No, then it'd destroy any potential argument for another referendum anytime in the next 50-100 years.

Even in the unlikely result of a Yes vote, that would be Scotland cutting its nose to spite its face. Scotland would then be facing the prospect of leaving both the UK AND the EU, and no, there is no possibility of Scotland retaining its EU membership. The EU made that perfectly clear during the last referendum, despite Alec Salmond's dreamworld insistence to the contrary (Much like his currency union delusions).

Scotland would basically be put into the Hard Brexit No deal position and then be starting from scratch. Amongst all that economic turmoil of it'd need to find some way to adopt the Euro in order to begin the application process for joining the EU, then be faced with economic tests lasting years before any hope of joining the EU could begin to become a reality.

Leaving the UK would, in the short to mid term, absolutely be a bigger disaster for Scotland than Brexit, and there's no guarantee of it being any better in the long term either, and the odds certainly wouldn't be good.

Things have changed dramatically since the last ref, I wouldn't be so certain about no EU membership.

 

[PJV3]

Sorry, am I not supposed to be pissed off at the UK being fucked over again?

No. Embrace it with British pluck.
Walk towards the machine guns in an orderly fashion.

 

[cyberheater]

If she called it right now she'd pretty much destroy her ambition of independent Scotland forever.

People keep saying stuff like "Well at least now we'll get indyref2" and "Indyref 2 when?" without realising that general support for Scottish independence has gone down, not up. If another referendum were to be called now and the result was another No, then it'd destroy any potential argument for another referendum anytime in the next 50-100 years.

Even in the unlikely result of a Yes vote, that would be Scotland cutting its nose to spite its face. Scotland would then be facing the prospect of leaving both the UK AND the EU, and no, there is no possibility of Scotland retaining its EU membership. The EU made that perfectly clear during the last referendum, despite Alec Salmond's dreamworld insistence to the contrary (Much like his currency union delusions).

Scotland would basically be put into the Hard Brexit No deal position and then be starting from scratch. Amongst all that economic turmoil of it'd need to find some way to adopt the Euro in order to begin the application process for joining the EU, then be faced with economic tests lasting years before any hope of joining the EU could begin to become a reality.

Leaving the UK would, in the short to mid term, absolutely be a bigger disaster for Scotland than Brexit, and there's no guarantee of it being any better in the long term either, and the odds certainly wouldn't be good.

Yes this is correct. The whole of the UK is going to leave and Scotland would have to re-negotiate with the EU to become a member state. I guess that would mean the Scotland would also have to adopt the Euro. That would be a lot of fun.

I can still see the benefits for Scotland being and independent country and a member of the EU.

(Anyhoo. I'm off to bed. I've got to get up at stupid o'clock tomorrow).

 

[Lagamorph]

Things have changed dramatically since the last ref, I wouldn't be so certain about no EU membership.

It wasn't an opinion, it's part of EU law. There's no uncertainty about it unless every existing member of the EU votes in favour of changing the laws surrounding membership.

Even if it weren't, Scotland would have to break away from the UK and become independent before the end of the 2 year Article 50 timeframe in order to have any kind of transitional membership. After that 2 year period, Scotland is outside of the EU and there could be no argument of retaining membership, since there'd be no membership to retain.

 

[Dougald]

How about we blame the lack of young voter turn out when it's their generation that's getting screwed the most out of this, I mean yeah they didn't vote for this, but then you could also say it's their fault for NOT voting at all.

Young voter turnout was actually very high compared to normal elections, and the vast majority voted remain.

The initial reports of low turnout after the referendum were incorrect

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Young voter turnout was 60%+

 

[gutter_trash]

LOL Corbyn, now you will be moving closer to a Pro-Russia era that you always wanted , congratulations

 

[Garjon]

Why can't I blame them for believing it? I share the same background as them. I share the same education as them. I saw the exact same transparent bullshit as they did. I've shared the same years of endless political lies. I looked at the same Nazi fucking propaganda as they did. I could see no reason to vote leave at all, but then I'm not the type of person who would sacrifice anything just so long as I believed it would be taken from immigrants too.

Did you say anything? Did you respond to people posting it with the correct information? Perhaps you did. If so, there weren't enough of you and that is the problem. People have never felt a need to double check what they read about or see because up to now, it has largely been reliable information. Or it is information that confirms their biases and feeds their fears. Either way, the spread of misinformation right now is out of control and I cannot personally blame people for being swept along in it all.

 

[DavidDesu]

Proud that all but one Scottish MPs voted against. Sad that our voice continues to mean nothing.

Yep.

- 62% voted to Remain in the EU Referendum

(That includes every single constituency voting Remain across the whole of Scotland)

- All but one of our 59 elected MP's voted against article 50 (98.3%)

-56 out of 59 of those elected MP's belong to a party which is clearly Pro EU and Pro independence (94%)

- Pro EU and Pro Independence parties (SNP & Greens) make up a majority in the devolved Scottish Parliament

(The Pro EU SNP have held two prior, consecutive majorities the last two terms before this current one)


BUT

AFTER ALL THAT


The one vote that does matter, that is absolutely sacrosanct, that seemingly stands for all time as the will of the people of Scotland...

..is the independence referendum, where we voted No to stay in the UK. That's all that matters. That one judgement rules above the vast overwhelming clear democratic will of the people of Scotland who want to stay in the EU, even after this huge dramatic change to everything we hold dear before us that absolutely changes the landscape. Yet none of that matters. This Union is a crock of shit. Democracy my arse.


The kicker? In the independence referendum we were clearly told by the No campaign that a vote for independence would put our EU membership in jeopardy (it likely would have of course until we hopefully sorted out rejoining again) but that a vote for NO absolutely secured our EU membership... FUUUUCK!

 

[Jezbollah]

Young voter turnout was 60%+

18-24 - 64%
25-39 - 65%
40-54 - 66%
55-64 - 74%
65 and over - 90%

 

[mlclmtckr]

It feels really weird here in Canada watching our two closest allies go completely batshit at the same time.

 

[RulkezX]

Yep.

- 62% voted to Remain in the EU Referendum

(That includes every single constituency voting Remain across the whole of Scotland)

- All but one of our 59 elected MP's voted against article 50 (98.3%)

-56 out of 59 of those elected MP's belong to a party which is clearly Pro EU and Pro independence (94%)

- Pro EU and Pro Independence parties (SNP & Greens) make up a majority in the devolved Scottish Parliament

(The Pro EU SNP have held two prior, consecutive majorities the last two terms before this current one)


BUT

AFTER ALL THAT


The one vote that does matter, that is absolutely sacrosanct, that seemingly stands for all time as the will of the people of Scotland...

..is the independence referendum, where we voted No to stay in the UK. That's all that matters. That one judgement rules above the vast overwhelming clear democratic will of the people of Scotland who want to stay in the EU, even after this huge dramatic change to everything we hold dear before us that absolutely changes the landscape. Yet none of that matters. This Union is a crock of shit. Democracy my arse.


The kicker? In the independence referendum we were clearly told by the No campaign that a vote for independence would put our EU membership in jeopardy (it likely would have of course until we hopefully sorted out rejoining again) but that a vote for NO absolutely secured our EU membership... FUUUUCK!

Was it David Mundell who voted leave ?