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[poppabk]

This must be false, some posters yesterday explained to me this is an isolated incident of cops making a mistake, NOT a systemic issue.

What are you talking about?

 

[FireFly]

This must be false, some posters yesterday explained to me this is an isolated incident of cops making a mistake, NOT a systemic issue

I actually said nothing about whether there was a systematic issue. My point was about how people should inform themselves (by looking for reliable data that provides population rates).

You will never determine how a system treats people on average by looking at individual cases in isolation.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

What are you talking about?

Does it even matter if you knew?

We're fucked

 

[kpopSuperstar]

I'm referring to the guy who intentionally drove his van into 130 people including 4 kids. I'm making the same stupid connection of origin and ethnicity in the hope that it will hit home that a lot of the time the "butchering on our streets" is confirmation bias that exists when somebody ties it to ethnicity.

She made comments about Somalian immigrants. She pleaded guilty to inciting racial hatred. Why would you plead guilty then? Unless you believe she did so to kick up a political shitstorm uprising for her conservative husbands political career.

More than 5% of the current population are criminals so was society ruined before? 33% of males born in the 1950s had been convicted by 2006 of at least one offence in England/Wales. Our national murder rate per million has actually decreased over the years. Treating people and trying to get others to treat others poorly just by this loose association is wrong on many levels.

I don't know about the driving incident, but if he was English then it's a mute point. English are the responsibility of England.

But everything any immigrant or children of immigrants do is preventable. It would not happen if they weren't there.

Hundreds if not thousands of English have been killed by people from other parts of the world, in England.

Somalian immigrants are among the most violent and radical people in every nation. I don't know exactly what she said but singling out groups like somalians and muslims is not race based its facts based, unless it's something deeply weird or prejudice based.

There is a difference if she said race hatred or if they did, because they view everything against immigration as racial hatred. They view anti-immigration as inciting racial hatred, she view it as protecting her own.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Some people just actually don't seem to have self preservation. This isn't even the first time in history this has even happened. Istanbul wasn't always called that. Its amazing how many people will deny something until it happens and then half of those will develop the Stockholm Syndrome and accept domination. Sadly I think the people standing on the beach waving at the Vikings are too numerous.

The correct term is "suicidal empathy" it's a concept coined by Gad Saad

 

[kpopSuperstar]

You think she asked to burn empty hotels?
He had an out because he claimed that "they" meant the people who left the razors on trains behind National front stickers and that it wasn't literal. Not to literally kill 'rightists' of any kind. Like I said, there is nuance in either case that landed Lucy in trouble. Lucy tied the crime to innocent people based on origin, asked for people to burn where they're staying, did not defend her tweet by saying it was a silly tweet but instead said they should do the same to the police and government. pleaded guilty to inciting racial hatred. Why? Thats why she was sentenced. She even went as far as to say that if they come for her she will play the "mental health card", she did not have a good record for the judge in comparison. It's that simple. There wasn't really much of a case when she pleaded guilty anyway. You don't plead guilty if you want to defend your innocence of not inciting racial hatred. You condemn the racial hatred and apologise for the mistake but she knew what she was pleading guilty to. what did she expect for the judge to say after doing that too "oh you yourself say you were inciting racial hatred but no worries, run along now". She put up no effort in defending the idea that it wasn't racial, she even reveled in it before. This was the issue with her case.

None of that excuses what he did, she might have fucked up, but he was absolutely talking about killing people. You can't have politicians say anything like that, no matter if it's literal or not.

 

[Three]

I don't know about the driving incident, but if he was English then it's a mute point. English are the responsibility of England.

But everything any immigrant or children of immigrants do is preventable. It would not happen if they weren't there.

Hundreds if not thousands of English have been killed by people from other parts of the world, in England.

Somalian immigrants are among the most violent and radical people in every nation. I don't know exactly what she said but singling out groups like somalians and muslims is not race based its facts based, unless it's something deeply weird or prejudice based.

There is a difference if she said race hatred or if they did, because they view everything against immigration as racial hatred. They view anti-immigration as inciting racial hatred, she view it as protecting her own.

Yes he was English but I'm referring to the incorrect idea of drawing loose connections between criminals and innocent people who are not those people. Nobody suggests that scousers houses should burn based on the bad people who commit crimes.

Yes singling out and generalising Somalians as bad people is literally race based. What is "race based" exactly to you then if not ancestry? Especially if you believe so much that people born in the UK are not truly "English" if they have parents that originally came from somewhere else. If somebody from Ibiza said the English are idiots that too would be racist, or not to you because the English are mixed descendents but shouldn't be therefore making it racist now anyway?

None of that excuses what he did, she might have fucked up, but he was absolutely talking about killing people. You can't have politicians say anything like that, no matter if it's literal or not.

You asked why he was free and she was not. You suggested this is due to some kind of legal system that "doesn't make sense". It does. She just pleaded guilty to inciting racial hatred. She even said "if that makes me racist I don't care" in the tweet at the time and she went along with not caring by literally pleading guilty to being a racist. Why she did that and fucked herself I don't know but my guess is that she didn't seem to care much for the consequences and her conservative councillor husband gets a boost in popularity in this climate as a result. All I'm saying though is that the legal system isn't "two tiered" she just decided to screw herself legally for whatever reason and the other person didn't.

 

[Forsete]

Nigel Farage will sort all this out, once the UK is a Russian subject.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

People in the UK need to learn to say no comment and not be manipulated into admitting to shit in police custody or allowing the free lawyer to convince them that pleading guilt first will be the lesser of two evils.

The burden of proof in court is extremely high (beyond reasonable doubt). Letting these clown shows go to court more than likely will get you acquitted for most of the Facebook stuff. Especially since they don't have the court space to go to full trials for fucking Facebook.

The governments response to the two tier accusation this time is.
Well Lucy pleaded guilt to the offence. Rick here denied it and had is day in court. They're literally admitting the clown world stuff wouldn't hold up in court.

 

[Sonik]

What are you talking about?

I actually said nothing about whether there was a systematic issue. My point was about how people should inform themselves (by looking for reliable data that provides population rates).

You will never determine how a system treats people on average by looking at individual cases in isolation.

So guys, help me understand this, is it a systemic issue or not? If it is a systemic issue then you're only annoyed because the press are covering stories exposing the UK dystopia, if it's not then it was just an isolated incident that the cops arrested the poor woman defending herself and her family, then another isolated incident happened and they released that dangerous dipshit and then in yet another isolated incident the courts are holding the woman hostage without bail. Remind me, what does the word "isolated" mean? And these coincidences happen more and more all over UK, interesting huh?

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Somalia is BY EVERY METRIC AND STUDY among the top-10 most dangerous countries in the world. Absolute barbarians.

Now, imagine the genius of bringing people from that place by the thousands and setting them free among peaceful citizens and little children.

And THEN, imagine to call "prejudice!" if somebody points out the fucking obvious, when something bad happens.

15 Most Dangerous Countries in the World Ranked

Discover the 15 most dangerous countries in the world. Learn why they pose significant risk to anyone travelling to these dangerous countries.

internationalsecurityjournal.com

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

This shit is funny because just a few months ago Tyler Chase Butler was charged on 3 counts in Virginia for shooting some teen who was breaking down his door (they were claiming it was a prank).

Interesting, hadn't heard of this case. Sounds like they have video at least from the wannabe TikTokers, which I'd love to see. All that shit should be made public during the trial IMO. "Ringing" vs "kicking in" a doorbell...FAFO situation till proven otherwise. What are you doing fucking around on some random persons property at 3am? You retarded or something?

Remember this one?

Homeowner: 2 Teens Shot Were 'Vermin,' Not Human

Authorities who searched the home of a Minnesota man who shot and killed two teens testified Wednesday that they found an audio recorder that was turned on, an operating surveillance system and a cellphone jamming device.

www.cbsnews.com

That audio recording was fucking wild.

Or this one

Fun fact, my lone (I believe) GAF ban was for supporting that dude in the long since nuked Politics section. Something about how he should be given a medal instead of being charged with murder. I was lectured to focus on the socioeconomic hardships that forced the couple to beat down an old man and try to steal his life savings.

Of course, my Purple Forum permaban came for pointing out all the Rittenhouse self-defense literally the night of, in real time, as the clips rolled in on YouTube and Twitter. Something to the effect of "Justifying murder"... after the murder acquittal I of course finally appealed my ban citing said acquittal on self-defense grounds. They promptly rejected that appeal without further comment.

 

[Three]

Somalia is BY EVERY METRIC AND STUDY among the top-10 most dangerous countries in the world. Absolute barbarians.

Now, imagine the genius of bringing people from that place by the thousands and setting them free among peaceful citizens and little children.

And THEN, imagine to call "prejudice!" if somebody points out the fucking obvious, when something bad happens.

Jesus fucking Christ.

15 Most Dangerous Countries in the World Ranked

Discover the 15 most dangerous countries in the world. Learn why they pose significant risk to anyone travelling to these dangerous countries.

internationalsecurityjournal.com

Dangerous country doesn't mean the people fleeing that danger are the danger. FYI Ukraine is ranked higher but I doubt people would be complaining about any immigrants from there. Why single out Somalians too especially when you have Afghanistan as number 1 using this "most dangerous countries" metric?

 

[FireFly]

So guys, help me understand this, is it a systemic issue or not? If it is a systemic issue then you're only annoyed because the press are covering stories exposing the UK dystopia, if it's not then it was just an isolated incident that the cops arrested the poor woman defending herself and her family, then another isolated incident happened and they released that dangerous dipshit and then in yet another isolated incident the courts are holding the woman hostage without bail. Remind me, what does the word "isolated" mean? And these coincidences happen more and more all over UK, interesting huh?

I am open to there being a systematic issue, if it can be demonstrated through statistics such as arrest rates per demographic, proportion of people being granted/refused bail by demographic, rates of dropped charges, etc.

In this case, I don't think we even know the official reasons given for not granting the woman bail? So I don't see how we can assess whether those reasons were valid or not.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Dangerous country doesn't mean the people fleeing that danger are the danger. FYI Ukraine is ranked higher but I doubt people would be complaining about any immigrants from there. Why single out Somalians too especially when you have Afghanistan as number 1 using this "most dangerous countries" metric?

I didn't quote a previous post in which Somalia was mentioned. I could say the same about the others, except for Ukraine and Venezuela, whose problems are caused by political turmoil. Judging by one sole year may be misleading, that's why this should be analyzed with a longer period. A decade, for example.

Bottom line, data like criminality rates (and which crimes are commited), human rights status, among others can tell you if you can sucessfully adapt large contingents of people from other societies into Western societies. The overwhelming evidence tells us this is impossible.

Applied to our daily lives, anyone who has looked for a roomate knows that you need to interview lot of people before finding someone trustworthy. It's already difficult among "peers". Imagine that multiplied by thousands. It's the mess we are witnessing right now.

 

[Sonik]

I am open to there being a systematic issue, if it can be demonstrated through statistics such as arrest rates per demographic, proportion of people being granted/refused bail by demographic, rates of dropped charges, etc.

In this case, I don't think we even know the official reasons given for not granting the woman bail? So I don't see how we can assess whether those reasons were valid or not.

So you're willing to entertain the idea that these are all isolated incidents, right? Just another coincidence, right? And how do you find the numbers you're asking given that UK government has been caught falsifying evidence and statistics to hide their crimes against the British population, crimes like the deliberate coverup of immigrant grooming gangs?

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

So if I'm to understand this:
Migrant enters her home.
Migrant gets removed by other civilians.
She goes to hotel where migrant is staying at and assaults a security guard at the hotel, leading to her arrest.
Migrant also later gets arrested.

I suppose the headline/twitter clickbait is technically accurate, but it's hugely misleading and likely deliberately so. And the claim that she was simply defending her home is just a plain lie.

 

[poppabk]

So guys, help me understand this, is it a systemic issue or not? If it is a systemic issue then you're only annoyed because the press are covering stories exposing the UK dystopia, if it's not then it was just an isolated incident that the cops arrested the poor woman defending herself and her family, then another isolated incident happened and they released that dangerous dipshit and then in yet another isolated incident the courts are holding the woman hostage without bail. Remind me, what does the word "isolated" mean? And these coincidences happen more and more all over UK, interesting huh?

They arrested her later after she left her mother at home to go to the hotel and assault a security guard. Arresting someone for assaulting a security guard isnt dystopian. Remanding someone into custody isnt holding someone hostage.
What is the dystopian part?

 

[Boo Who?]

To be fair those grannies were protesting against Israel which we all know isn't allowed.

Maybe Israel is on to something here.

 

[Beretta]

Immigrants these days get a pass. I'm saying this as an immigrant myself but not a recent one. They get handouts when natural born citizens are struggling to survive. There's a particular demographic that has come in monstrous waves and they only hire their own people, there is literally no other demographic of people who work at most jobs, it's insane….how does a country let that shit happen? Fucking unreal….gone are the days where immigrants come and work for what they need, gone is a cap on how many come, gone is fairness for everyone, etc. Countries are being taken over and the open door policy to anyone and everyone is ridiculous.

 

[FireFly]

So you're willing to entertain the idea that these are all isolated incidents, right? Just another coincidence, right? And how do you find the numbers you're asking given that UK government has been caught falsifying evidence and statistics to hide their crimes against the British population, crimes like the deliberate coverup of immigrant grooming gangs?

The question isn't actually whether they are "isolated" incidents. The question is whether they reflect how immigrants and natives are treated on average.

The justice system isn't some perfect machine administered by robots. It's run by real people who are often biased. We would expect that at least some of the time immigrants would be unfairly favoured and some of the time natives would be unfairly favoured. (If you need to read GB News for the former you can read the Guardian for the latter!)

Patterns of behaviour may even be specific to a given community, so there can be systematic elements. However, if all you consider are cases where immigrants were unfairly privileged, you're never going to know what the overall tendency of the system is.

In the case of the grooming gang scandal, authorities omitted to record the ethnicity of offenders, so there was no systematic data and this is precisely what enabled the abuse. The government has now committed to change this. But looking into the available information, there doesn't seem to be data broken down by immigration status. So you can say that I am being super unreasonable by asking you to use data that doesn't exist.

Except that I only came into this thread to point out that trying to measure the seriousness of a problem by the number of news stories you see about it, is a terrible idea. That remains true even if in particular cases we don't have enough information to come to an overall conclusion. There will never be a shortage of dystopian stories available to read, no matter how bad the situation actually is. Even if only 1% of police officers are "bad", that's thousands of bad officers creating chaos.