• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

blazinglord

Member
avaya said:
The BNP will never be in a position to win power or become part of a coalition government. It would be political suicide for any party to ally with them.
Click to expand...
Nobody can predict the electoral circumstances in ten years or so. You only presume that the BNP will 'never be in a position' to be part of the BNP. I recall not that long ago people saying that the BNP could not possibly gain any seats in the European parliament or the London Assembly. As of 2010, they have at least one seat in both forums. Like I said in one of my earlier posts - some people may have faith in the electorate to put the greater good ahead of self-interest, but I do not share that idealistic view.

Fixing what is not broken? It is a broken system when the party that takes power more than likely had 60% of the electorate that turned out vote against it.

PR promotes turnout. PR leads to socialist governments and in the unlikely event of a right-wing government they tend to be populist instead since they would have no coalition if that weren't the case. Win-win.
Click to expand...
I never said that the current system was perfect, but rather that it works and has served Britain well - FPTP led to a socialist government in 1945 btw! What evidence do you have that PR will increase turnout or will lead to a socialist government?

I feel your enthusiasm for populism is misguided and would result in the tyranny of the majority? You appear to forget that Britain is not like other countries - our constitution is very weak and susceptible to change. Four years in the wrong hands and a lot of damage could be done by populism.

Chinner said:
More Tory/Gay news:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8614235.stm



smh
Click to expand...
Has Labour dropped their opposition to Civil Partnerships being referred to as gay marriage now then? Because I was under the impression that none of the three parties propose changing legislation to recognise Civil Partnerships as anything else.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Labour's manifesto
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/12/labour-manifesto-at-a-glance

Few things that stick out to me:
• On immigration, a pledge for all public sector workers to speak English will apply only to those in contact with the public.
Click to expand...
This will help integration! Pretty sure it's illegal as well.
• A new right to see a GP at evenings and weekends, and more high street services.
Click to expand...
Neat.
Labour aims to save £950m from increased efficiencies in education and £500m from education quangos and civil servants. The party would make parents sign up to a behaviour contract when their child started primary school.
Click to expand...
A contract of what?
• A promise to "learn the lessons of recent experience" (an apparent reference to Afghanistan) and focus on conflict prevention as a means of curbing terrorism.
Click to expand...
Only took them like 7 years. Still not pulling out though.
• On Iran, Labour will continue to back a dual-track approach of "engagement and pressure", in the hope of fending off what it calls "the gravest nuclear threat to global security" since the 1960s.
Click to expand...
hurr hurr hurr
• New tax powers for Scotland "as soon as possible" in the next parliament, giving the Scottish parliament the right to set separate income tax rates, control over other minor taxes and new rights to borrow money.
Click to expand...

overall opinion: nothing that really appeals to me.
 
P

Parl

Member
defel1111 said:
Edit: Is anyone else getting sick of hearing the phrase "global economic crisis" and "unprecedented" from Labour MPs. It seems Labour are trying to rebrand the recession.
Click to expand...
Not exactly sick. It was original branded as a global crisis and as unprecedented by the media, before a recession even took place, and it's not exactly misleading. The crisis would have caused a depression not known to 95% of the British population - without any action to mitigate it.

That we had just a recession, despite a bad one in terms of contraction and deficit, though less bad than many in umemployment, was a very good outcome considering the circumstances. The world went into meltdown. Labelling the events that occured merely as a "recession" isn't doing it justice. Recessions suck, bu it could have been much, much worse.
 
Enosh

Enosh

Member
This will help integration! Pretty sure it's illegal as well.
Click to expand...
you mean it's illiegal for them to do the pledge or illiegal that only those in contact with the public have to do it?
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
Wait...

Dominic West is old friends with Samantha Cameron?

Sorry guys. McNulty has spoken. I'm going Tory.
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
Why should those MPs receive more taxpayers money to defend them against a charge of stealing taxpayers money? They've already effectively admitted guilt by trying to use the defence of "parliamentary privilege".

Apart from that, did anyone watch Labour's manifesto launch this morning?

I missed it on TV but heard it on 5Live in the car.

My first thoughts on hearing Nick Robinson and the other journalists being booed when they asked their questions were correct: it was your usual New Labour rent-a-vetted-mob event, and they were going for the media. This is not the way to win the general public over. They seriously pissed them off:

Guardian's Andrew Sparrow:
There seems to be a huge Labour audience in the room. It sounds more like a rally than a press conference. This might be a premature judgment, but I feel that this is going badly wrong in presentational terms. Brown has just picked a fight with the political editor of the BBC and appeared to accuse the person who will be chairing next week's Sky leaders' debate of being a Tory stooge.
Click to expand...

Sky's Adam Boulton:
The manifesto launch was a classic New Labour occasion.

A spanking new building and a ring of steel security cordon ensuring that “real people” were kept miles away from the politicos and the journalists.

..

The crowd, including some cabinet ministers, booed and shouted at questions they didn’t like.

Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political editor, had his question interrupted by jeering and Graham Wilson of the Sun was booed just for identifying his newspaper.

Labour did not behave like that in the last three elections when the Sun backed them.

Gordon Brown was happy to join in this confrontational mood.

It was the most substantive aspect of the manifesto event.
Click to expand...

Paul Waugh from the Evening Standard on twitter:
God this North Korean rally atmosphere for the press conference is appalling. Surprised hacks not put in the stocks for asking sensible Qs.
Click to expand...

Sky's Niall Paterson on twitter:
I’ve never been at an event like this. A woman at the back complains that we won’t stand up to ask questions of the PM. This isn’t the USA
Click to expand...

North Korean rally indeed.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
Part of the Tories manifesto tommorow will include "Referendums on any local issue if 5% of the population sign up, and a veto for voters over any proposed high council tax increases."

I like the idea of this although how such a thing would be organised... not sure.
 
D

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
2_fullsize.jpg

:lol
 
M

Moobabe

Member
mh57wz.jpg


I'm kind of torn. The independent MP is excellent, as the voting suggests, but I'm not sure how to use my vote. It would either be a vote for him or the LibDems but is supporting an individual over a party sensible when it comes to national politics?
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
Conservative leads of 6, 6, 7 and 8 percent in the polls tonight. All margin of error stuff. Still looking at the fence between a hung parliament and a small Tory majority of 30 or so.

Main points of the Conservative manifesto which launches tomorrow.
Be your own boss by running your public sector enterprise as a co-operative or via innovative business start up schemes;
Sack your MP via a power of recall;
Run your own school as Conservatives facilitate the creation of new schools where previously parents had no alternatives;
Own your own home with first-time homebuyers freed from stamp duty and new ownership opportunities for social tenants;
Veto council tax rises with residents getting the power to instigate local referendums on any local issue if 5% of the local population sign up;
Vote for your police so your community gets the anti-crime policies that you and your neighbours want;
Save your local pub or post office via co-operative ownership models;
See how government spends your money by forcing government to publish what they spend.
Click to expand...

edit: Moobabe: If I were a tactical anti-Conservative voter, I'd vote for the independent candidate. Judging from those results, the Lib Dems have no chance of winning there anyway. It's really a choice between the independent and the Conservative.
 
V

Varion

Member
Dabookerman said:
Damn, this Paxman interview is tense. Is Paxman ever nice to anyone? :lol
Click to expand...
Never :lol The debates will be nothing compared to a grilling by Paxman.

All things considered I thought Clegg came out of it well though.
 
E

Empty

Member
Watching the first half of the interview and Clegg isn't impressing that much. He's being super evasive on a few questions, not defending his policy positions that satisfactorily and despite Paxman being a dick (esp over immigration, though his question about the lib dem tax cut falling on middle earners most was worth making) and not making it easy, he isn't looking that good. Hopefully he'll grow in confidence.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
I'd give Clegg a 7/10 for that interview. Not great, but not embarrassing either, which, to be honest, is always a real possibility with Paxman. Still drove home his policies but did seem a little wishy-washy on the specifics. Still, wanna see Brown cry and Cameron get angry in the coming weeks face to face with Paxman. :lol
 
E

Empty

Member
heh. he was actually much much better in the second half, especially on the nhs and schools, though that may be because paxman let off the gas a little. but even so, a thumbs up overall. interesting that he kept saying 'cleaning up politics' rather than stv when asked on his coalition priorities.
 
D

Dark Machine

Member
I can't wait for the interview with Cameron. I mean after watching Paxhole with Clegg tonight...I expect it to be something like this:

Pax: SO Mr.Cameron...WHAT exactly are your policies?

Cam: Well we want to preserve NHS spending, and not raise Nat. Insurance and

Pax: But you KNOW you can't afford that, and you haven't been specific, people have a right to know...

Cam: Hold on Jeremy I mean really...

Pax: All you've said is that your giving tax breaks to the RICH and tax breaks to BIG BUSINESS! and tax breaks to MARRIED COUPLES! All of which COST MONEY! Which you know the state DOESN'T HAVE!

Cam: Yes but really now...George Osbourne...

Pax: Who most people believe is incompetent.

Cam: But...well...I mean...

Pax: Yes come on lets have it!

Cam: Errr....

*Gong*

Pax: TIME'S UP EATON! and at the gong...you've scored nothing. :D

Clegg came out really well I thought, he got very aggressive back at Pax and defended his position once he realised that Pax would just drive at the same points over and over. Though it shouldn't have taken him so long to realise that since Pax has been that way for decades...
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
I prefer it to the Labour one.

There's going to be a Town Hall meeting in Bolton at noon on the BBC News channel by the way.
 
S

Salazar

Member
painey said:
conservative manifesto looks like a textbook right out of Eton.. these toffs don't change..
Click to expand...

The idea that there is something intrinsically bad about being, looking, and acting upper-class is really quite dim, and you need only invert it to find out how it's offensive to boot. The idea that an expensive education is somehow a disqualifying and ludicrous characteristic is just as stupid.

That said, I would have chosen a markedly different presentation. This seems intensely traditionalist, which in turn seems almost quiveringly safety-seeking. Not good.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
painey said:
conservative manifesto looks like a textbook right out of Eton.. these toffs don't change..
Click to expand...

This is the problem, really. We as a country really need a change - I say this as a long-time Labour supporter. But the problem is the Conservatives are the same old party. Lipstick on a pig and all that.

The only consolation is if they do get in they'll probably only get one term. But still.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Salazar said:
The idea that there is something intrinsically bad about being, looking, and acting upper-class is really quite dim, and you need only invert it to find out how it's offensive to boot. The idea that an expensive education is somehow a disqualifying and ludicrous characteristic is just as stupid.
Click to expand...

QFMFT.
 
P

painey

Member
Salazar said:
The idea that there is something intrinsically bad about being, looking, and acting upper-class is really quite dim, and you need only invert it to find out how it's offensive to boot. The idea that an expensive education is somehow a disqualifying and ludicrous characteristic is just as stupid.

That said, I would have chosen a markedly different presentation. This seems intensely traditionalist, which in turn seems almost quiveringly safety-seeking. Not good.
Click to expand...

The point is they are an upper class party, with beneficial policies for upper class people, trying to get the middle class to vote for them.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Salazar said:
The idea that there is something intrinsically bad about being, looking, and acting upper-class is really quite dim, and you need only invert it to find out how it's offensive to boot. The idea that an expensive education is somehow a disqualifying and ludicrous characteristic is just as stupid.

That said, I would have chosen a markedly different presentation. This seems intensely traditionalist, which in turn seems almost quiveringly safety-seeking. Not good.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, but I think for most people the issue isn't that they are upper-class, it's that their policies are often incredibly self-serving, specifically only serving the upper class, who notably often require that help the least.

Then again, the problem with Labour in the last seven years is that the welfare state thing has gone too far and there are a great, great number of spongers out there because the system is far too easy on them. Despite the fact that the two parties are shuffling closer to the center with every passing year they're still black and white on these issues, and while the Lib Dems do occupy the grey area they're not going to win any time soon.
 
S

Salazar

Member
painey said:
The point is they are an upper class party, with beneficial policies for upper class people, trying to get the middle class to vote for them.
Click to expand...

If their bedrock political identity offends you, nothing can be done. If their pursuit of a political strategy that is bleeding obvious to the point of being a historical necessity—the alternative being suicide—bothers you, nothing can be done.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
just watched the manifesto, it has honestly convinced me and i'm voting tory now.

LOLLl. whats funny though is that the last third of the video has this guy in it
235hcg.jpg



overall pretty fake and shit. Prefer Labours one.
 
S

Salazar

Member
To understand quite how effective he has been as leader of the Opposition, you have to remember what the Tory parliamentary party used to be like. It wasn’t a party. It was a rabble. I once got into trouble with the excellent ambassador from Papua New Guinea because I likened the behaviour of the feuding Tory factions to “Papua New Guinea-style orgies of cannibalism and king-killing.” It turned out that the good lady was offended not by the stuff about cannibalism – which has, of course, been very largely stamped out in the last 40 years – but by the comparisons between the modern emerging nation of Papua and the antics of the Tories.
Click to expand...

Vintage Boris.

This is hilarious, too. A Conservative blog on why Cameron shouldn't go on Paxman. He gives four reasons. None of which include the phrases 'fucking petrified', 'crucified and ritually burned', or 'bullied like a milk monitor'.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2010/04/david-cameron-should-say-no-to-paxman.html
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
My local MP voted for the debill, but he's leaving so I can't really let that affect my vote.

With the amount of pamphlets the LibDems are sending me, I'm almost tempted to vote for them just for the effort. Where I live the Tories have little chance of making an impact so I basically have a choice between Chuka Umunna of Labour (the 12st Century Candidate according to the leaflet in yesterday's post :lol ) or Chris Nicholson of the LibDems. Decisions... decisions...
 
S

sohois

Member
painey said:
The point is they are an upper class party, with beneficial policies for upper class people, trying to get the middle class to vote for them.
Click to expand...

Beneficial policies for upper-class people? Like what exactly? Nothing in the manifesto posted above strikes me as beneficial for upper-class. The marriage tax break does nothing to target the upper-class and in any case the amount that will be saved for marriages is so small that only poorer families would really benefit. National Insurance is a tax paid by everybody so i don't see how that really benefits upper-class people. So what are you referring to?


avaya said:
b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but throwing the money at the NHS is not the answer. What absolute bollocks.

So many myths perpetuated as fact, it's disgusting. Public services ALWAYS benefit from better funding.
Click to expand...

I am unaware that anyone has ever suggested public services do not benefit from better funding, the question is whether you're getting value for money from the spending increases. NHS spending has i think doubled in real terms since 1997, but has the quality of the NHS doubled? Note that i'm not saying it hasn't, I don't really have enough information to declare such a thing, and the article does not make any such judgments, but nor does it conclusively show good value for money.
 
P

Parl

Member
sohois said:
Beneficial policies for upper-class people? Like what exactly? Nothing in the manifesto posted above strikes me as beneficial for upper-class. The marriage tax break does nothing to target the upper-class and in any case the amount that will be saved for marriages is so small that only poorer families would really benefit. National Insurance is a tax paid by everybody so i don't see how that really benefits upper-class people. So what are you referring to?
Click to expand...
It's because they know they can't commit to many tax cuts, except the reversal of the 1p NI increase.

They were recently committed to cutting the inheritance tax of the richest 3,000 estates in the country. That's now an aspiration, and will be their priority on tax cuts, or cutting the £150,000+ income tax rate.
 
D

defel

Member
Although Clegg didnt answer anything excellently I think that he came across quite well as a personable, likeable politician. I love seeing politicians squirm under Paxman, even if his questioning can be idiotic so hopefilly Cameron and Brown will agree to be interviewed.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
"The national citizen service got a 77% approval rate in a YouGov poll last week."

I think the Conservatives are playing a blinder with all these bold (bolder than usual) community integration plans to be honest. I like the idea in some form or another. Could just be a gimmick but like the polls say I think it is striking a chord with voters. If they keep that as their front and foremost message rather than simply bashing Labour all the time I can see them hitting the magic 40%.

That said I still think the debates could be crucial. I wonder what the estimated/real viewing figures for it turn out to be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
[TNYT] Brazil Blocks X After Musk Ignores Court Orders
Social News Community 2
69
5K
ManaByte replied
Satya Nadella: Annual letter to stockholders. Content on new platforms will continue
4 5 6 7 8
352
21K
noob smokes replied
Bobby Kotick, former CEO of Activision, Interested in Buying Tik-Tok
2 3
143
11K
Gameplay Gods Bless replied
Big Business and Government: Grand conspiracy or ramblings of a mad man?
3
2K
Soodanim replied
  • Locked
UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
396 397 398 399 400
20K
2M
chromatic9 replied
Top Bottom