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[Wes]

Not quite right. In Canada the nationlist Bloc Quebecois looks better in FPTP than in PR. Parties with *diffuse support in terms of geography* look better in a PR system.

Of course. I was being specific to UK politics. UKIP and BNP for example would get a dozen or so seats each in a pure PR system I believe.

 

[JonathanEx]

 

[Walshicus]

Son of a... hat.

 

[industrian]

Of course. I was being specific to UK politics. UKIP and BNP for example would get a dozen or so seats each in a pure PR system I believe.

Like I said, pure percent-of-vote-equals-seats:

Conservatives (36.2%) - 235 seats
Labour - 189 seats
Liberal Democrats - 149 seats
UKIP - 20 seats
BNP - 12 seats
SNP - 11 seats
Green - 5 seats
Plaid - 4 seats
English Democrats (0.2%) - 1 seat

 

[MrPing1000]

Of course. I was being specific to UK politics. UKIP and BNP for example would get a dozen or so seats each in a pure PR system I believe.

Which isn't necessarily a terrible thing. I mean if people vote for them they should be there, even if their views are deplorable. The only problem is when a coalition needs them to form a government and you end up with a right wing nut job in a high up government position. Which probably wouldn't happen. Labour and the Lib Dem's could keep the Conservatives out of power forever.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I tip my hat to you.

 

[Shanadeus]

Of course. I was being specific to UK politics. UKIP and BNP for example would get a dozen or so seats each in a pure PR system I believe.

Here in Sweden we have a lower limit of 4% that each party have to get over to get any seat at all, you could institute a similar system to avoid single seat parties in the UK.

 

[Walshicus]

Like I said, pure percent-of-vote-equals-seats:

Conservatives (36.2%) - 235 seats
Labour - 189 seats
Liberal Democrats - 149 seats
UKIP - 20 seats
BNP - 12 seats
SNP - 11 seats
Green - 5 seats
Plaid - 4 seats
English Democrats (0.2%) - 1 seat

And of course that masks the people who don't vote under the current system or who vote tactically. The political landscape would change dramatically under PR. We might even see UKIP emerge as the second right-wing party [which while I hate their policies would fragment the Tories].

 

[industrian]

That remaining Northern Ireland seat had a majority of 4.

Four.

One. Two. Three. Four votes.

I've said it too many times today, but hopefully the people of the UK get the message.

 

[Mr. Sam]

And of course that masks the people who don't vote under the current system or who vote tactically. The political landscape would change dramatically under PR. We might even see UKIP emerge as the second right-wing party [which while I hate their policies would fragment the Tories].

Is UKIP not originally a splinter Tory group?

 

[mj1108]

I don't know why but I want that hat. :lol

 

[industrian]

Is UKIP not originally a splinter Tory group?

"UKIP was founded in 1993 by Alan Sked and other members of the all-party Anti-Federalist League. Its primary objective was withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union. The new party attracted some members of the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative Party, which was split on the European question after the pound was forced out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism in 1992 and the struggle over ratification of the Maastricht Treaty. UKIP candidates stood in the 1997 general election, but were overshadowed by James Goldsmith's Referendum Party."

From Wikipedia.

 

[Varion]

"Lib Dem sources have said that they see Cameron's proposal as a 'significant step' and the party will meet tomorrow to discuss it" - BBC ticker thing

 

[Azih]

And of course that masks the people who don't vote under the current system or who vote tactically. The political landscape would change dramatically under PR. We might even see UKIP emerge as the second right-wing party [which while I hate their policies would fragment the Tories].

British people won't suddenly stop being British if the voting system is changed so the way people vote won't be dramatically different.

In any case in a PR system where coalitions are necessary for a party to influence government policy it's not just how many seats a smaller party gets it's also how palatable their views are to the mainstream that determines if one of the larger parties would even want to ally with them for fear of their moderate support fleeing from them in disgust.

 

[operon]

a majority of 4 votes and people say votes don't count

 

[Atrophis]

Chris Evans wins Dudley :lol

 

[LosDaddie]

So....Conservative Comeback 2010 is real?

 

[D4Danger]

I can't believe the Lib Dems are going to do a deal with the Tories.

I can understand why Clegg went to talk to them first since they won the most seats but these 2 parties are worlds apart.

I wonder if Lib Dems voters will be happy to know their vote went towards a Conservative government.

 

[SmokyDave]

a majority of 4 votes and people say votes don't count

Depends on the seat. The party I voted for could have received another 12,000 votes and still come 3rd. Did my vote really count?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I voted but not every seat is a 4 vote margin.

 

[Walshicus]

British people won't suddenly stop being British if the voting system is changed so the way people vote won't be dramatically different.

In any case in a PR system where coalitions are necessary for a party to influence government policy it's not just how many seats a smaller party gets it's also how palatable their views are to the mainstream that determines if one of the larger parties would even want to ally with them for fear of their moderate support fleeing from them in disgust.

The way people vote in FPTP has consistently been out of alignment with their preferred choice. It's a known fact that opposition turnout in "safe seats" is deflated. The voting ratios *would* be dramatically different with full PR, and significantly so with partial PR.

 

[CruxisMana]

I wonder if Lib Dems voters will be happy to know their vote went towards a Conservative government.

I would, quite frankly, be disgusted.

 

[industrian]

I'm wondering whether to sleep or not.

Been watching this for around 14 hours.

 

[operon]

Reading more on the Fermanagh vote, got this snippet fromt he BBC website

Earlier, sources claimed 36 more ballot papers were counted in Fermanagh South Tyrone than were recorded as having been issued by the Electoral Office.

In addition, it is understood a handful of what have been described as suspect papers have been identified.

Source:

 

[Mr. Sam]

I'm wondering whether to sleep or not.

Been watching this for around 14 hours.

Going off air soon. Hang in there.

 

[industrian]

I wonder if Lib Dems voters will be happy to know their vote went towards a Conservative government.

I would, quite frankly, be disgusted.

How do you think Liberal Democrat MPs would feel? I'm sure that the Gravy Train Brigade that ousted Ming will love it, but I'm sure that a lot of MPs will feel extremely disenfranchised by it.

 

[Varion]

I'm wondering whether to sleep or not.

Been watching this for around 14 hours.

Think we're about done on exciting stuff now, basically no new seats to call, BBC1 coverage going to end in 5 minutes, Brown and Cameron have made their offers, Lib Dems going to meet to discuss them tomorrow.

I'd sleep (24 hours up lol) but it's the middle of the day now so!

 

[Empty]

ashdown and kennedy must be fighting against going with the tories inside the party.

 

[Meadows]

John Major: CON should offer LD high ranking cabinet seats.

Perhaps putting LDs into the Tory party would liberalise it a little more? Who knows.

 

[Varion]

Bless you Dimbleby, you've done us proud.

Now please go and get some sleep!

 

[sohois]

So is there gonna be any more news today other than those last few seats, or will we have to wait till tomorrow to see whats gonna happen? I don't why i bothered to stay up for this.

 

[gofreak]

John Major: CON should offer LD high ranking cabinet seats.

Perhaps putting LDs into the Tory party would liberalise it a little more? Who knows.

They wouldn't be in the party, but in the cabinet.

It is the norm for minor partners in a coalition to have (often disproportionate) representation at the cabinet. I think for either Labour or the Tories it would be a necessary give.

 

[D4Danger]

How do you think Liberal Democrat MPs would feel? I'm sure that the Gravy Train Brigade that ousted Ming will love it, but I'm sure that a lot of MPs will feel extremely disenfranchised by it.

This as well. I can't imagine many of the Lib Dems want to do a deal. This could be suicide for Clegg and maybe the Lib Dems as a whole.

I think the best thing they could do is join Labour, let them govern while we work out a better system and then do it all again.

I think this would be our only shot at finally changing this ridiculous system once and for all.

 

[Varion]

So is there gonna be any more news today other than those last few seats, or will we have to wait till tomorrow to see whats gonna happen? I don't why i bothered to stay up for this.

Can't see anything more exciting coming out of today. Tomorrow at the earliest when the Lib Dems have had their talks. BBC1's about to shoot off to its usual schedule of crap like Flog It.

 

[Wes]

Lib Dems just need to do whatever puts them in the best position to do well in 5-12 months time.

 

[lopaz]

They wouldn't be in the party, but in the cabinet.

It is the norm for minor partners in a coalition to have (often disproportionate) representation at the cabinet. I think for either Labour or the Tories it would be a necessary give.

Vince Cable for Chancellor! Make George Osbourne cry

 

[industrian]

The Tories have made 100 gains and 3 losses. 97 new seats is quite an achievement by them.

 

[sohois]

John Major: CON should offer LD high ranking cabinet seats.

Perhaps putting LDs into the Tory party would liberalise it a little more? Who knows.

I could definately see Conservatives offering Home secretary to Libdems since Grayling's a bit of an embarrasment. In fact, the only positions the Tories wouldn't offer would be Osborne as chancellor, Hague as foreign secretary and Gove in education. They'd probably want to keep Fox in defence as well, but other than that i don't see why Cameron wouldn't offer cabinet postions.

 

[industrian]

John Major hasn't aged at all.

 

[MrPing1000]

Lib Dems just need to do whatever puts them in the best position to do well in 5-12 months time.

And that cannot be a deal with the conservatives.

This is the biggest opportunity for the Lib Dem's to push electoral reform and the Tories will never ever let it happen because they'd be screwed.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

That remaining Northern Ireland seat had a majority of 4.

Four.

One. Two. Three. Four votes.

I've said it too many times today, but hopefully the people of the UK get the message.

Well my party lost by 7000 votes in second place. I could have stayed in and got laid but noooooo, I have to go out and be a good citizen. Rassafrassin democracy...

The moral of the story is know your local politics. If one party have been in power for 30 years in your area, save yourself the walk...

 

[MrPing1000]

wtf is the girl wearing on countdown today. lol

 

[MrPing1000]

Well my party lost by 7000 votes in second place. I could have stayed in and got laid but noooooo, I have to go out and be a good citizen. Rassafrassin democracy...

The moral of the story is know your local politics. If one party have been in power for 30 years in your area, save yourself the walk...

Not in East Belfast 31 years of Robinson and he's gone woohoo.

 

[Azih]

The way people vote in FPTP has consistently been out of alignment with their preferred choice. It's a known fact that opposition turnout in "safe seats" is deflated. The voting ratios *would* be dramatically different with full PR, and significantly so with partial PR.

Yes but the increase of people voting in once safe seats aren't all skewed to one party and so cancel each other out to some extent (Cons voting in greater numbers in formerly safe seats for Labour countered by Labour voters doing the same thing in Con safe seats).

New Zealand moved from FPTP to a PR system modelled after Germany's and really the proportion of votes that the top two parties get there is pretty much in the same range as it was under FPTP. Just no false majorities any more. A bunch of small parties got elected in the first few elections but the kooky or ineffective ones that just couldn't work with anyone else got whittled out.

 

[Ghost]

Oh wow, I just imagined the banks reactions to Vince Cable as a Tory Chancellor

BUY BUY BUY!!!

 

[Walshicus]

wtf is the girl wearing on countdown today. lol

Yeah... weird.

Never sure if the brunette with the dictionary is cute or not.

 

[industrian]

The moral of the story is know your local politics. If one party have been in power for 30 years in your area, save yourself the walk...

The Liberal Democrats have been in power in the Borders since 1965, but every vote still counts. I was terrified of a Conservative victory. Michael Moore retains the seat he got in 1997 from David Steel but with a reduced majority. And thus the people rejoiced.

 

[operon]

Depends on the seat. The party I voted for could have received another 12,000 votes and still come 3rd. Did my vote really count?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I voted but not every seat is a 4 vote margin.

Indeed, but what I mean is people say whats the point in voting it won't make a difference. If wnough of those people went out to vote it would

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

wtf is the girl wearing on countdown today. lol

As usual it's lack of length compensates for how stupid it looks.

 

[Azih]

Indeed, but what I mean is people say whats the point in voting it won't make a difference. If wnough of those people went out to vote it would

That's crazy. It's like saying that all you have to do is get you and 10,000 of your friends to vote one way to gain the privilege of being represented by someone you voted for. All you really should have to do is freaking vote. Most democracies get that.

 

[dschalter]

And that cannot be a deal with the conservatives.

This is the biggest opportunity for the Lib Dem's to push electoral reform and the Tories will never ever let it happen because they'd be screwed.

As opposed to Labour? Labour and the Conservatives both benefit equally from the ridiculousness of the electoral system, so it's doubtful that either of them would be useful for that.