UKGAF thread of Politics and Britishness.
- Thread starter Chinner
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Those links you posted don't tell the entire story, and you make them out to be black and white. Life isn't really black and white.
Not black and white as you make it, BritCop explans it well. The guy is pretty foolish. He finds the gun, takes it into his home for awhile (which is dodgy), and then walks in public with it before making an unannounced appearance at the police station. Reporting it to the police is pretty basic. Besides, I don't see what's the problem considering the very article you link says walks free from court.
I remember this story prompting allot of discussion here. Basically, he managed to get the guy out of his house, which is fine cause it's self defence. Then he and his brother chase after him, off their property, and beat the shit out of them. Self defence laws are pretty well defined and that shit isn't covered in it. If I remember correctly, it's actually quite ironic because the thief was so injured that he couldn't testify and he got away free (or something).
Doesn't really fit the definition of nanny state at all.
funkmasterb said:
Fought him off and chased him out the house - allowed
Chased him down the street with two of his brothers, then beat him until he had permanent brain damage and couldn't then be tried properly - not allowed
Though I'm sure we went through this before on here. There's always going to be a line somewhere, and the ones that straddle it are always going to make news and be controversial.
funkmasterb said:
- We aren't building a real life 1984, this country has plenty of freedoms; claims regarding CCTV are sensationalized and misrepresented to give a bad position, most are privately owned and the huge figures come from extrapolating numbers from a single very busy high road across the entire country in an un-scientific way, though yes there are 10,000 CCTV cameras in our capital city of over 7 million people. That said the current Labour government has passed worrying legislation in the last few years under the guise of protecting us from terrorism that is concerning for civil liberties, stuff like police being able to confiscate photographs, but 1984 comparisons are ridiculous.
- You can, so long as you use reasonable, proportional force, which is fine in 99% of cases. The press likes to pretend this isn't this true by highlighting a few cases, while eliminating key points, which aren't really outrageous unless you are crazy and think you can kill someone just because they enter your house. The one you linked was where the homeowner successfully turned the tables on the intruder and forced him to leave the house, in a perfectly legal way, then chased him outside once he posed no harm and brutally beat him to the point of brain damage with a baseball bat; in an illegal way, and he only got a suspended sentence on appeal. Not a problem to any reasonable observer.
- Some councils are good, others not. Some do good jobs of delivering key services, other not so much, and we are welcome to vote them in and out in elections.
- Gun's are illegal in this country, something i'm rather happy with. If you walk down the street carrying one and walk into a police station carrying one you will be charged. If you phone up the police to get them to safely remove it, like a sane person, you don't. The case you site seem to be an unfortunate one of charges being pressed when they shouldn't have been (edit: or maybe not, see below) but the laws are sound.
quiteSir Fragula said:
http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/...walks-free/article-361380-detail/article.html
funkmasterb
Member
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/nottinghamshire/8578631.stm
and this?
Thanks for the replies. I still maintain my view and worry about how abusive and all encompasing the gov't seems to be there.
and this?
Thanks for the replies. I still maintain my view and worry about how abusive and all encompasing the gov't seems to be there.
funkmasterb said:
Now you just sound alarmist.
"Drug dogs were also deployed on the streets and traffic officers used automated number plate recognition technology to identify vehicles wanted in connection with a crime, stolen vehicles and vehicles or motorists driving without insurance."
Is that really so bad? I don't see why it's really that terrible that the police are doing their job.
Edit: I also read the Wired article to which you linked regarding the "10,000 CCTV" cameras. Not only is it inaccurate to apply figures relating to an urban capital with a population of 7 million+, but the whole article seemed to complain that these cameras were insufficient as is to aiding the police in tackling crime. That's seems a bit contradictory to your overall project: these cameras don't seem to present much of an intrusion into your personal liberty if they can't even catch a decent mugshot.
I forget which one it is, but Nottingham has either really horrible knife or gun crime. What they're doing makes sense: It's a Saturday night, allot of people are drinking and going out and something is bound to happen. I know what you mean, but even though this is probably Police PR it's still an efficient short term solution.funkmasterb said:
Subliminal
Member
tbh i would rather have a few cameras and random metal detector scans than get stabbed.
funkmasterb said:
There have been a fair number of high profile cases of knife crime in recent years, despite violent crime being on the decline, so i'd imagine this is the response to those events, though i'm not sure what is so worrying about the police doing their job. The whole random metal detector stuff is OTT but it is probably an isolated sap to the press so Labour can appear tough on crime and appeal to The Sun readers.
If you don't mind me asking, are you american? if so it seems a weird thing to complain about given your police forces' record and stuff like tasering.
J Tourettes
Banned
Sir Fragula said:
It'd make a wonderful chav bumpersticker as there's no such nationality as English.
frankie_baby
Member
Shanadeus said:
that sounds to me like really sensible policy, i mean if you can pay tax at 16 its only fair to be able to vote
i hate bees
Member
Chinner said:this?
Nah before that and pre-recession when Cameron took seat, for a time I was caught up in the rush of possibly having a viable opposition (previous Conservative leaders were unelectable). I so wanted for something good to have come of it, but again when it comes to voting this time round it's more of a question of who do people want to keep out than who do people want to put in.
LittleLordJimmy
Neo Member
Funky Papa said:
Yeah, it's good for that and for helping out a trade deficit. However, if your relying on imports they're going to be more expensive, which results in inflation or lower standard of living.
If expensive imports lead to high inflation, interest rates need to be raised (not good during a recession) , but will strengthen the currency and so the cycle continues.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Yeah, that I get. What I can't understand is why a weak currency is bad for shops, given that most of them don't purchase their goods abroad (I thought we were talking about smaller commerces)LittleLordJimmy said:
Still, I think the pound needs to go down along the euro. Our exports are going down the shitter, the sooner they drop, the better.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I'll be voting for whichever one will be keeping the NHS around. I want to keep my job dammit :lol
I'm seriously worried that the BNP and similar right wing groups are going to get more votes from people fed up, and dirty charvs who think it'll be cool. Don't get me wrong, I think immigration is an issue, but theres other important things to take care of first.
1. Clean up Parliament.
2. Secure Jobs.
Hell, if I could, I'd vote to go back to a Monarchy. I'd happily be a Yeoman or something :lol
I'm seriously worried that the BNP and similar right wing groups are going to get more votes from people fed up, and dirty charvs who think it'll be cool. Don't get me wrong, I think immigration is an issue, but theres other important things to take care of first.
1. Clean up Parliament.
2. Secure Jobs.
Hell, if I could, I'd vote to go back to a Monarchy. I'd happily be a Yeoman or something :lol
J Tourettes
Banned
Sir Fragula said:
Only British exists in the eyes of the law hence why no English option on tickbox forms or census papers.
J Tourettes
Banned
Chriswok said:
I think the immigration issue is massively misunderstood by the major parties. I don't think illegal immigration is what bothers some people but rather the legal migrants from the EU.
Mr. Luchador
Member
J Tourettes said:
We should adopt a stricter system like Australia/Canada where you need skill points based on job experience. I'm honestly not bothered about who lives in Britain as long as their have something to contribute - British people included.
I'd like to add:
3. Lazy tossers sitting at home with 3+ kids claiming benefits and not working (AKA 'The Jeremy Kyle' Generation).
to the list too. That's worse than illegal immigrants, at least the immigrants are doing shit work for cheap pay.
J Tourettes
Banned
Chriswok said:
That'd be against European law though so would be unworkable.
The crusade against illegal immigrants/immigrants from non-EU states has contributed to the shortage of doctors in the NHS. Many Indian citizens (traditionally trained from British medical textbooks) have been refused work/entry since labours tightening of their immigration policy.
Sir Fragula said:Hey hey I love Scotland; but I love it enough to set it free.
And joke's on you - I don't have a car! In fact I don't know whose car that was that you would have keyed... or whether the tenses in that last sentence work.
The tenses are good enough for me. It was a blue 1983 MG Maestro.
A friend of mine and the captain of the korfball(dutch sport) club i play for works for the local conservative MP. If the MP loses then he'll be out of a job and will have to move away. Given the pretty awful state of all three main parties, it seems as good a reason as any to vote conservative.
Also, anyone with an interest in british politics should definately read Private Eye. Particularly if your only other source of news is one of the British papers.
Also, anyone with an interest in british politics should definately read Private Eye. Particularly if your only other source of news is one of the British papers.
Mr. Luchador
Member
J Tourettes said:
True on both accounts. Really not sure which way I'm going to vote come the election - probably go Lib Dems as they seem to be the only ones 'honest' enough to admit to raising taxes for this and that. Though some of their law enforcement ideas are a bit weak.
DefectiveReject
Banned
David Cameron - Arse
Gordon Brown -Tolerable
Nick Clegg - Who?
I don't see what any of them can do to change Britain. It's the people of Britain that need to change, to change Britain. I'll vote for anyone who decides to stop taxing me for having a company car.
Gordon Brown -Tolerable
Nick Clegg - Who?
I don't see what any of them can do to change Britain. It's the people of Britain that need to change, to change Britain. I'll vote for anyone who decides to stop taxing me for having a company car.
J Tourettes
Banned
DefectiveReject said:
Vote for anyone but the anti-science Greens.
English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh will be on the 2011 census. Sadly though they rejected calls to add Cornish - they'll have to use the "other" checkbox.
Really?? Because in my experience EU migrants tend to have a far easier time in the public's eye.J Tourettes said:
The immigration issue is partly concern with overcrowding and wage deflation, but mostly concern over the cultural impact. Polish people and others from the eastern states integrate well and integrate fast. Yes you might guess that the short haired red-head girl walking down the street is a migrant but you can bet your last penny that the stereotypical angry old pensioner wouldn't bat an eyelid at her in comparison to the more visible - i.e. coloured - immigrants who probably are more likely to be illegal.
DefectiveReject
Banned
If they stop taxing my company car ( how the Fuck do you justify taxing a company car. You don't tax me for having my own car. )
fucking greedy government
fucking greedy government
Subliminal
Member
DefectiveReject said:
You wont complain about a greedy government when you use the NHS.
J Tourettes
Banned
Sir Fragula said:
Places such as Kent are having major problems with the Polish influx and there is a wee bit of anti-Eastern Euopean sentiment about in some southern counties.
I love it myself as the beer, bird and food standard has gone up in my old stomping ground.
DefectiveReject
Banned
Yes I will. The NHS isn't £1000 a month expensive.Subliminal said:
For me the NHS would become private and you'd pay for what you use.
Why should I pay over the odds. I'm not fat, nor an alcoholic nor a smoker.Yet those that are those are likely on benefits anyhow.
I mean 34" trousers are £30, and 54" trousers are £30. How mad is that?!?
I'd introduce a fat tax. That's how you get everyone healthy. Make em pay for being fat.
Screw that. I very rarely make direct use of the NHS, but even if I paid loads of taxes, I'd be all for it. I'm 22, and I've been for 2 accidents, and a bit of medicine for some weird skin thing I got when I was a kid. Used to go to the dentist, but not anymore.DefectiveReject said:
The NHS rules, despite it needing to be more efficient and effective.
I would like to request the Pirate Party UK be added to the Minor Parties list as they're an official party registered with the electoral commission (and if you can include the BNP on the list... why not?).
Also I hate this country, there are too many Politicians who care more about their own interests than the interests of the people. There are also not enough politicians with common sense. Finally there are too many MP's who don't have the courage to speak out against the clear stupidity of the current government for fear of angering the party whips.
If it wasn't for Browns iron grip on Labour we would've had a General Election long ago, instead we've got a Government desperately clinging to power, paralysed to actually do anything.
Don't get me wrong, Conservative are not any better and I'm losing faith about the Lib Dems, maybe a hung parliament is what the country needs instead of one party with a super majority dictating what shall be.
It desperately needs to be more efficient and cost-effective, I feel the only way to do that is to institute a major overhaul of the whole system, throwing money at the NHS doesn't fix the problem.
Also I hate this country, there are too many Politicians who care more about their own interests than the interests of the people. There are also not enough politicians with common sense. Finally there are too many MP's who don't have the courage to speak out against the clear stupidity of the current government for fear of angering the party whips.
If it wasn't for Browns iron grip on Labour we would've had a General Election long ago, instead we've got a Government desperately clinging to power, paralysed to actually do anything.
Don't get me wrong, Conservative are not any better and I'm losing faith about the Lib Dems, maybe a hung parliament is what the country needs instead of one party with a super majority dictating what shall be.
Parl said:
It desperately needs to be more efficient and cost-effective, I feel the only way to do that is to institute a major overhaul of the whole system, throwing money at the NHS doesn't fix the problem.
McBacon said:Did you know that on the London Underground, there is one fatal accident for every 300 million journeys. They are mostly suicides and as such, some stations have deep pits underneath the tracks, which are officially called "anti-suicide pits".
terrorists have got it all wrong, all those unnecessary risks they're taking with plots and explosives. they'd have more impact by just throwing themselves on the central line at oxford street during rush hour.
Yup, and the people you need to feel sorry for are the drivers, both underground and overground...McBacon said:Did you know that on the London Underground, there is one fatal accident for every 300 million journeys. They are mostly suicides and as such, some stations have deep pits underneath the tracks, which are officially called "anti-suicide pits".
I'm switching between Conservatives and lib dems a lot atm. I just saw a thing on BBC News with Nick Clegg and I like that fact that the lib dems mostly avoid the pathetic sniping that Labour and the Tories constantly get into, I like Vince Cable (along with most other people), I like that Nick Clegg isnt religious and although he is Cameron-esque in appearance and style I find him a bit more digestible and the fact that LibDems want to reduce University fees. I'm genuinly undecided who to vote for and tomorrow Ill re-read this post and have a completely different perspective.
Semi-partisan discussion of the latest polls and issues in the news affecting the polls:
www.politicalbetting.com
I intend voting Conservative at the upcoming election and will be glad to debate/explain why to those who question me. I would also like people who intend to vote Labour to explain why, after 13 years of a government that has overtaxed and overspent with little to show for it and in some cases a worsening of the state of the country, they still want to give them another chance.
www.politicalbetting.com
I intend voting Conservative at the upcoming election and will be glad to debate/explain why to those who question me. I would also like people who intend to vote Labour to explain why, after 13 years of a government that has overtaxed and overspent with little to show for it and in some cases a worsening of the state of the country, they still want to give them another chance.
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