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[rdrr gnr]

Quality is not wholly subjective.

Saying it is, is a nonsense argument devoid of reality.

 

[Rengoku]

A message to any NaughtyDog Developers reading this thread,

Congrats on the great scores! I personally can't wait to play the game. I realize that many reviews are knocking your game for being 'Uncharted 2.5', more of the same, too linear, etc. Coming from a fan of the series, please DON'T change the formula! The Uncharted series doesn't need to be open world, or have branching storylines, that's not what your fans want, at least not when it could possibly compromise the quality of the story.

I know Batman Arkham City got higher scores because they went open world, but I can't help but feel that the quality of the story missions were compromised as a result. Arkham Asylum's story felt more cohesive imo.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Then it won't be your GOTY. It's kind of pointless to tell someone they're wrong about a game being their personal GOTY. That seemed to be all French was saying.

If it's his personal GOTY then it's ok.

 

[GANGSTERKILLER]

MGS2 has the highest score of any MGS, despite being by far the worst, while MGS3 has the lowest, despite being by far the best. Weird shit, man

Hahaha. MGS 4 is by faaaaaaaar the worst in the franchise. MSG 2 is fucking EPIC.
But yeah, MGS 3 is also great. Not the best.

 

[Lord Error]

Uncharted can certainly be criticized for being linear, just like I can say "that's ok."

Do you feel like something can be criticized for being open ended, or is open ended supposed to be inherently better?

 

[nib95]

What if you don't like Zelda?

Zelda has too many dungeons and I don't like the fact that it has linear narrative progression.

8/10

 

[Vire]

Eurogamer's 8/10 review reads way better than IGN's 10/10 one.

That's because Greg Miller is a terrible critic.

Just look at his Dead Space 2 review... (I actually rather enjoyed the game but it was so horribly written.)

 

[plagiarize]

They essentially docked the game two points because the reviewer felt like it was too linear and that the game sometimes takes control away from the player. Two things that have been a staple in the franchise so far. I don't believe in docking points for aspects that were prevalent in the past two games. Naughty Dog has made it crystal clear what they're setting out to do and they wear their influences on their sleeves. It seems to me that the reviewer reviewed the game based on what he wanted it to be rather than what it is.

get over the score. trust me it's the healthiest perspective on these things.

what, so if a game has something you think is a flaw, and they make a sequel with the same 'flaw' you aren't allowed to call it out or base your score on it?

you can't criticise a game for not doing something if the developers didn't try to do it?

so many of you guys treat scores like just that, scores. scores in some crazy sports game where your game of choice has to win. whatever.

 

[Arnie]

This pretty much means that I'm going to adore it like I did the others.

Same for me, in fact that entire review hyped me for more Uncharted, and it also justifies that particular reviewer's perspective.

They essentially docked the game two points because the reviewer felt like it was too linear and that the game sometimes takes control away from the player. Two things that have been a staple in the franchise so far. I don't believe in docking points for aspects that were prevalent in the past two games. Naughty Dog has made it crystal clear what they're setting out to do and they wear their influences on their sleeves. It seems to me that the reviewer reviewed the game based on what he wanted it to be rather than what it is.

You're going about this all wrong.

You can't dock a game points it hasn't earned. You hold the perspective that Uncharted 3 started at a 10 and worked down. This reviewer simply felt that Uncharted 3 was far too restrictive and linear for his own tastes to deserve a higher score, which is completely acceptable and he justifies it exceptionally well.

Your attitude is one of bitter entitlement. 8 is a good score, that it doesn't match your own lofty expectations doesn't make it invalid.

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

Eurogamer reads way better than IGN

Fixed to get the redundancies out. Comparing their Gears 3 reviews was like night and day, even if IGN gave it the higher score, the review was embarrassing to read.

 

[Red]

Eurogamer's 8/10 review reads way better than IGN's 10/10 one.

Well, yes. Even if Eurogamer went out of their way to troll with a 2/10 review it would still read better than IGN. It's tough to read something from them and not think, this is how people wrote in my high school newspaper.

 

[DMeisterJ]

If Uncharted 3 is as 'linear' as U2 or UF then I'm fine with it.

I just hate when reviewers use that word in order to dock points from a game, as if every game is supposed to have multiple paths or be open. That type of gameplay doesn't fit any game, and it especially doesn't work in a game like Uncharted where it is very setpiece-driven.

Oh well, If Uncharted 3 is really just Uncharted 2.5, no issue there, U2 was an amazing game, so that means U3 will be amazing-er.

 

[DerZuhälter]

lol Eurogamer, you clowns.

Guess what. Drake hates clowns!

 

[lucius]

Well the important gaming places like IGN, 1Up, Giantbomb, Gameinformer are 9.5 or perfect scores so I am not to worried about the game. Let's see what Gametrailers gives it.

I always felt Uncharted 3 would not surpass Uncharted 2 in scores since it was such a jump from the first, with Uncharted 3 I was hoping at least it just be as good as Uncharted 2 since that is still my favorite overall game this generation.

 

[Resident_UA]

Eurogamer's 8/10 review reads way better than IGN's 10/10 one.

That's given.

 

[M.D]

You can criticize a game all you want.
If Uncharted's 3 melee system was shit and didn't work, that would be a valid complaint. If the story sucked and made no sense, that would be a valid complaint.

To criticize a game for what it is and what it is trying to do (Uncharted being a cinematic and story driven experience, and Dark Souls being a hard and unforgiving game) is simply stupid.

I'll just quote this because it was the last comment on the page and you likely didn't see it.

 

[Pranay]

Eurogamer France: Uncharted 3 Review

9/10


their are other eurogamer sites <_<

 

[Suairyu]

To criticize a game for what it is and what it is trying to do (Uncharted being a cinematic and story driven experience, and Dark Souls being a hard and unforgiving game) is simply stupid.

They didn't criticise Uncharted for being a cinematic or story driven experience.

If Uncharted 3 is as 'linear' as U2 or UF then I'm fine with it.

I just hate when reviewers use that word in order to dock points from a game, as if every game is supposed to have multiple paths or be open. That type of gameplay doesn't fit any game, and it especially doesn't work in a game like Uncharted where it is very setpiece-driven.

They didn't criticise Uncharted 3 for being linear.

 

[revolverjgw]

Eurogamer's 8/10 review reads way better than IGN's 10/10 one.

That's not saying much

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I think the Edge review reads the best. Games TM gave it a nine as well btw.

 

[Dragon]

Quality is not wholly subjective.

Saying it is, is a nonsense argument devoid of reality.

Well I'd say that every score is 8/10 or more kinda backs up that claim.

 

[Jb]

get over the score. trust me it's the healthiest perspective on these things.

what, so if a game has something you think is a flaw, and they make a sequel with the same 'flaw' you aren't allowed to call it out or base your score on it?

you can't criticise a game for not doing something if the developers didn't try to do it?

so many of you guys treat scores like just that, scores. scores in some crazy sports game where your game of choice has to win. whatever.

I don't have any problem with the score, but I find it odd that Eurogamer did not raise these linearity issues in their UC2 review (10/10).

 

[Boken]

Eurogamer's 8/10 review reads way better than IGN's 10/10 one.

IGN something something.

 

[Mileena]

What if you don't like Zelda?

Watch out for the Nintendo cult.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I don't like the Gears games. But I can't deny their quality.
A lot of people don't like Super Mario Galaxy. But you just can't say it's not quality.

You can't deny the quality of something that has been made very well, even if it's not your thing.

It would be a lot more reasonable to say that quality is partially objective. I agree with your examples; there are games that are higher quality productions than others. Unfortunately that objective quality and people's experiences of the games are not perfectly correlated. So should people review a game in terms of the objectively good qualities they perceive in it? Or should they talk about their personal experience and how much they enjoyed it and for what reasons?

I think both are legitimate approaches. It's up to the reader to decide which kind they prefer and pay special attention to.

 

[Gustav]

I really think the "8 still means it's a good game" argument really doesn't fly here. Uncharted is not simply a good game, it is outstanding in the truest sense of the word. The production value alone is unrivaled, gameplay is incredibly fluid, letting the player PLAY the most spectacular moments and the story/performance is, at least compared to its contemporaries, stellar. An 8 does not reflect that.

 

[Vire]

I don't have any problem with the score, but I find it odd that Eurogamer did not raise these linearity issues in their UC2 review (10/10).

If different people reviewed the game, that would make sense.

I think the Edge review reads the best. Games TM gave it a nine as well btw.

Edge always reads the best.

 

[M.D]

They didn't criticise Uncharted for being a cinematic or story driven experience.

They didn't criticise Uncharted 3 for being linear.

As an expression of all that a video game could be, however, Uncharted 3 is narrow, focused and ultimately shallow. It is a majestic tribute to cinema, a movie game in the literal sense, and your enjoyment will be in precise step with your appreciation of that objective - and whether or not you believe it to be Drake's great deception, or Drake's great delight.

...

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I really think the "8 still means it's a good game" argument really doesn't fly here. Uncharted is not simply a good game, it is outstanding in the truest sense of the word. The production value alone is unrivaled, gameplay is incredibly fluid, letting the player PLAY the most spectacular moments and the story/performance is, at least compared to its contemporaries, stellar. An 8 does not reflect that.

oh wow

 

[Callibretto]

I'd be surprised if U3 is actually better than U2, though I've heard a fair few journalists and gamers who have said it is. The quality and immensity of U2 just makes me question the meagre possibility of that.

if you like the character Nathan Drake and if a good story may influence you on how good a game is, then you may gonna like U3 the best. U3 seems like a much more personal story for Drake, and not just merely about treasure hunting for him. in U2, Nathan Drake is merely swept up by other people's affair, and one thing led to another.

from what I've read, U3 seems to expand a bit more that just about the treasure.

 

[Red]

I really think the "8 still means it's a good game" argument really doesn't fly here. Uncharted is not simply a good game, it is outstanding in the truest sense of the word. The production value alone is unrivaled, gameplay is incredibly fluid, letting the player PLAY the most spectacular moments and the story/performance is, at least compared to its contemporaries, stellar. An 8 does not reflect that.

I would say it does. And the only responses to that are "you're wrong," or "you just don't get it." Which is fine if that's what you want to believe, but the world won't be able to fit inside your bubble.

 

[Resident_UA]

A message to any NaughtyDog Developers reading this thread,

Congrats on the great scores! I personally can't wait to play the game. I realize that many reviews are knocking your game for being 'Uncharted 2.5', more of the same, too linear, etc. Coming from a fan of the series, please DON'T change the formula! The Uncharted series doesn't need to be open world, or have branching storylines, that's not what your fans want, at least not when it could possibly compromise the quality of the story.

I know Batman Arkham City got higher scores because they went open world, but I can't help but feel that the quality of the story missions were compromised as a result. Arkham Asylum's story felt more cohesive imo.

100% agree!

 

[plagiarize]

I don't have any problem with the score, but I find it odd that Eurogamer did not raise these linearity issues in their UC2 review (10/10).

yeah. that IS weird. the two reviews read like they were written by different people.

oh wait.

THEY WERE.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

It would be a lot more reasonable to say that quality is partially objective.

"Partially objective" is an oxymoron. There is certainly consensus but not objectivity. It's more an argument of context and language, and I agree with your last sentence.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Same for me, in fact that entire review hyped me for more Uncharted, and it also justifies that particular reviewer's perspective.

You're going about this all wrong.

You can't dock a game points it hasn't earned. You hold the perspective that Uncharted 3 started at a 10 and worked down. This reviewer simply felt that Uncharted 3 was far too restrictive and linear for his own tastes to deserve a higher score, which is completely acceptable and he justifies it exceptionally well.

Your attitude is one of bitter entitlement. 8 is a good score, that it doesn't match your own lofty expectations doesn't make it invalid.

He doesn't justify anything well. Eurogamer and Edge are notorious for harsh and illogical reviews. This is the biggest problem with gaming journalism. Deviate too much from the formula you've established in past titles and journalists complain about developers abandoning their roots and muddying up gameplay. Stay on the course and journalists complain about a lack of imagination and developers phoning it in. It's better just to ignore them all.

 

[Suairyu]

...

That quote doesn't contradict a word I said.

They have very specific criticisms of Uncharted 3 and those aren't that it's linear. Many of their most highly rated games are linear.

 

[VIVIblkmgIc]

They didn't criticise Uncharted for being a cinematic or story driven experience.

They didn't criticise Uncharted 3 for being linear.

Well they said it doesnt reflect what games "can be," which I think is an implied indictment. They also kind of were criticizing it for being "happy" at one point in the review. Like, talking about how you get the girl and save the day.

 

[Bigfoot]

Fuck the score scale is really messed up. How can Uncharted 2 get 96 metacritic and Uncharted 3 92? Makes ZERO sense. It's better in every single way, yet is worse reviewed.

It may be better in every way, but "more of the same" and "been done before" usually gets lower scores than something that is new. Uncharted 2 was a huge leap over the first, where as Uncharted 3 is more like Uncharted 2.5.

 

[Loudninja]

Eurogamer Italy 10/10
http://translate.google.com/transla...arted-3-l-inganno-di-drake-recensione&act=url

 

[The Lamp]

A message to any NaughtyDog Developers reading this thread,

Congrats on the great scores! I personally can't wait to play the game. I realize that many reviews are knocking your game for being 'Uncharted 2.5', more of the same, too linear, etc. Coming from a fan of the series, please DON'T change the formula! The Uncharted series doesn't need to be open world, or have branching storylines, that's not what your fans want, at least not when it could possibly compromise the quality of the story.

I know Batman Arkham City got higher scores because they went open world, but I can't help but feel that the quality of the story missions were compromised as a result. Arkham Asylum's story felt more cohesive imo.

Absolutely agreed! This series is what it is, and we like it for what it is! Please, there is no other series like this.

 

[cpp_is_king]

I don't put much stock in review scores, but generally the highest confidence measure I've found of a game's greatness is when IGN gives it a perfect 10. Obviously this leaves out tons of good games that I would consider 10s, but the false positive rate is basically 0. If IGN gives a game a perfect 10, it's basically a masterpiece.

 

[diffusionx]

I don't have any problem with the score, but I find it odd that Eurogamer did not raise these linearity issues in their UC2 review (10/10).

Maybe because, you know, it's a couple years later.

In 2007, a super-linear scripted "rollercoaster" FPS game like Modern Warfare was awesome. In 2011, the same type of game... not so exciting anymore.

This is not difficult stuff to comprehend. Uncharted 2 was a large and noticeable jump over the first game, but if Uncharted 3 is not the same sort of jump (and I quite frankly do not know how it can be), I can see why someone would not be as enthused with it in 2011 as they were with the predecessor in 2009.

 

[zoukka]

yeah. that IS weird. the two reviews read like they were written by different people.

oh wait.

THEY WERE.

The previous guy should've consulted the other guy and marked all the things that were different in his review with a red marker. I'm so pissed some publifications don't enforce this.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Worst fanbases ever:
1. FF fanboys
2. Zelda fanboys
3. Uncharted fanboys

This thread just confirms it.

 

[Special J]

i feel gamer angst is pressuring alot of reviews for bf3/uc3 to be inflated, while the opposite for mw3. i dont know what is going on this year in particular its worse than ever. simon at eurogamer has hundreds of reviews under his belt i think he was giving the game a fair shake which is what we should expect, instead of indulging the fanbase to feel good about themselves.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Maybe because, you know, it's a couple years later.

In 2007, a super-linear scripted "rollercoaster" FPS game like Modern Warfare was awesome. In 2011, the same type of game... not so exciting anymore.

This is not difficult stuff to comprehend. Uncharted 2 was a large and noticeable jump over the first game, but if Uncharted 3 is not the same sort of jump (and I quite frankly do not know how it can be), I can see why someone would not be as enthused with it in 2011 as they were with the predecessor in 2009.

speak for yourself, it's pretty damn exciting to me.

 

[SykoTech]

Black Friday is the sales day. Black Monday was the stock market catastrophe.

Yeah, I thought something was off there.

Though Black Friday can also seem like a crisis, at least where I shop.

 

[Vire]

I don't put much stock in review scores, but generally the highest confidence measure I've found of a game's greatness is when IGN gives it a perfect 10. Obviously this leaves out tons of good games that I would consider 10s, but the false positive rate is basically 0. If IGN gives a game a perfect 10, it's basically a masterpiece.

Just like GTAIV with it's Oscar worthy dialogue and MGS4 right?

 

[jbttwin]

Damn, a 4/5 from G4, who seems to absolutely LOVE this series?

 

[Suairyu]

Well they said it doesnt reflect what games "can be," which I think is an implied indictment.

That was them musing and discussing, not criticising. Also...

They also kind of were criticizing it for being "happy" at one point in the review. Like, talking about how you get the girl and save the day.

This wasn't criticism either. It was description.