Death Metalist
Member
I wish, maybe then I'll have something to care about when it comes to the Transformer films.
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Uncharted 4: A Thief's End |OT| You're gonna miss this ass
- Thread starter BaraSailey
- Start date
I wish, maybe then I'll have something to care about when it comes to the Transformer films.
Well, we got to give that a pass, that's just the adventure genre summed up in one sentence.
You're confused.
I'm not talking about visual, environmental storytelling, although the Avery story is actually a very poor example of that. Almost all the substantive information regarding that subplot is conveyed through characters narrating events. You could listen to an audio recording of Uncharted 4 and still get almost all of that story.
NullPointer
Member
I don't get this complaint either, but now I'm curious. The visual language is and has to be tuned for the gameplay.
Or are we talking purely about the cutscenes?
Mr. Giggles
Member
Interesting, sure man i'll give this a viewing on youtube tonight.
I am not a huge Uncharted fan btw and I was very skeptical coming into the game.
I actually had a strong negative bias approaching this game and ,viewed the praise as mostly hyperbole.
I thought it can't be that good but it far exceeded my expectations.
Its great.Best effort put out by Naughty Dog when it comes to story and acting.
I was, yeah. They are the sections of the game directly comparable to film.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You must not have seen the 2016 GOTY So Far thread that was posted just today. It was filled with people saying U4 is their GOTY with like 1 or 2 people mentioning Dark Souls 3.
Of course these games continue to sell. I am talking in context of praise and the general shift in the industry when evaluating games. When a game like Witcher 3 wins GOTYs over MGS5 and Fallout 4, you have to wonder why Witcher 3's gameplay got a pass and Fallout 4 was criticized for not having a viable melee build. Or why MGS5's exceptional gameplay was all but ignored in favor of Witcher 3's storytelling.
If Gamespot and other media outlets want to focus on story over gameplay for their GOTY deliberations and for their 10 rated games, that's their prerogative, but they are signaling a shift in this industry that is dangerous. And it's dangerous not because games like Gone Home can now thrive. It's dangerous because traditionally gameplay/shooter heavy games like Uncharted now are becoming even more story focused with even fewer gameplay/combat sections as we counted earlier in the thread.
While the next Dark Souls wont forgoe gameplay over story, other games in the action adventure genre would try to copy the U4 formula in search of praise and GOTY awards. And that to me is scary.
RespectThySole
Member
I don't agree that it's laughable, but the story isn't good enough to carry the game past your initial playthrough.
It's a well done story and the acting is great, but Planescape: Torment or even TLoU, this is not. This is why the game suffers on replays because the engaging interactivity is spread far too thin to make it enjoyable once the novelty of the scenery has worn off and you know how Drake's story ends.
The downtime rarely even counts in that category because the platforming and puzzles are so simple. It's fine if ND wanted to go in a different direction than the other Uncharteds, but you can't do that without making the weak points of Uncharted stronger.
They halved the action and setpieces, which were the main draw of the series along with the characters, but the platforming and puzzles have not improved much(or at all in the case of the puzzles) to make up for that despite being pushed into a larger role. The rope was a good addition, but it wasn't enough.
There's no progression to any of this gameplay even though it's such a big portion of the game now. You're not really doing much different than you were at the start of the game. You're just holding the stick forward or pressing x repeatedly. The exploration is largely useless except for finding the worthless treasures. It ends up just feeling like busy work during extended sections that waste the player's time and ruin the pacing.
Yeah the gunplay is still a bit floaty, but the biggest gameplay improvement was the combat arena level design yet they decided to feature much less combat in this game. Very bizarre.
It's a well done story and the acting is great, but Planescape: Torment or even TLoU, this is not. This is why the game suffers on replays because the engaging interactivity is spread far too thin to make it enjoyable once the novelty of the scenery has worn off and you know how Drake's story ends.
The downtime rarely even counts in that category because the platforming and puzzles are so simple. It's fine if ND wanted to go in a different direction than the other Uncharteds, but you can't do that without making the weak points of Uncharted stronger.
They halved the action and setpieces, which were the main draw of the series along with the characters, but the platforming and puzzles have not improved much(or at all in the case of the puzzles) to make up for that despite being pushed into a larger role. The rope was a good addition, but it wasn't enough.
There's no progression to any of this gameplay even though it's such a big portion of the game now. You're not really doing much different than you were at the start of the game. You're just holding the stick forward or pressing x repeatedly. The exploration is largely useless except for finding the worthless treasures. It ends up just feeling like busy work during extended sections that waste the player's time and ruin the pacing.
Yeah the gunplay is still a bit floaty, but the biggest gameplay improvement was the combat arena level design yet they decided to feature much less combat in this game. Very bizarre.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Well, we read different threads then, as Dark Souls III is mentioned throughout it.
Your fears are completely unfounded. There are countless developers who continue to put gameplay first.
Makes more sense, because for the game stuff, the visual language is great.
MegaSackman
Member
True but there's nothing wrong with that. Besides you're avoiding what I've said about chapters 4 and 16 which talk about the actual life of Nathan Drake and what it might be and this is what I think you're talking about. Again, we are still talking about blockbusters, right? because Transformers and Emmerich movies tell simple stories in terrible ways.
RespectThySole
Member
Yeah I saw that too. Plenty of people mentioned DS3 including myself.
YankeeDonB
Member
Transformers seems a bit excessive. I don't think the script and acting live up to good film and tv (much less great). But I didn't find them awful either.
I'd say they're more or less in line w/ something like the typical Marvel film -- OK while you're watching, but soon forgotten.
Mind you, some of the environmental story telling is really quite good, and in a way you pretty much couldn't do in a film.
Well, yeah: Uncharted 4's story is simple, and not well told. That's been my point.
And I didn't respond because I can't recall offhand what chapters 4 and 16 were specifically about. Remind me?
Resident_UA
Member
Wait, you are comparing cutscenes in a videogame to a movie? What's even the point? The only reason why some of these cutscenes work/don't work depends on how the rest of game is executed. "Object placement" and whatever else you are talking about are secondary to to this. In fact I'm not an expert on film either, but with the limited knowledge I got from few electives in college the cutscenes seem very well executed. In fact some people argue that Transformers is well executed movie from "filming" perspective. It doesn't make it good. You are making really weird argument...
QuantumBro
Banned
Ancient trash dumpsters.
...? What?
They are, quite literally, small sections of movie in between playable parts.
In what possible sense does good filmmaking not apply?
Lys Skygge
Member
Uncharted might not communicate its story visually as well as higher echelon films, but what it does is communicate its story well through the gameplay itself (because is a videogame). The atmosphere and the locations tell the story without the characters having to spell it out for you (just like the acting and cinematography in films).
MegaSackman
Member
Chapter 4
is Nathan and Elena at home and the house is a mess and you see that they're not enjoying their lives or are at least uncomfortable with it.
Chapter 16
is young brothers at Evely's house, a former explorer who ditched her family to pursue her dreams and passion and ended up alone in a practically ghost house with none around. This is what Drake would be if he didn't end his obsession for treasure hunting. There is little this complex in blockbusters films.
Still disagree with your appreciation.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I couldn't quite put my finger on what Nate and Sam's relationship reminded me of and last night I finally did. Anyone see the movie Rounders? I think there are a lot of parallels between Mike(Matt Damon) and Worm(Ed Norton).
Resident_UA
Member
We are talking about overall story here. Also I made a point that if you just go by "filming" perspective it's possible to argue that they are good. What's so confusing?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I think the pacing issues exacerbate the inherent ridiculousness of this kind of narrative. There are certain situations in the game where you're doing repetetive superhuman acts for up to 20 or 30 minutes like a tireless robot salamander, and after you realize you can't miss the next jump for the 50th time you lose any sense of tension.
It may be hard to argue that plot structure and scenario count towards gameplay inasmuch as they are framing vehicles, but it's not nearly as difficult to argue that gameplay is intrinsic to the kind of storytelling games as a medium offer. What you do tells the story of what is happening as much as any cutscene, even if the game makes as strong an attempt as possible to divorce the experience of playing from the story its telling.
Now, being dissonant doesn't have to be jarring depending on the kind of experience being delivered and the way it's handled, but the more realistic and/or cinematic a game attempts to be, the more jarring things become. I imagine this is related in some ways to the uncanny valley.
So in a cinematic game, being "gamey" actually interferes with the intent of the storytelling. Of course no one wants to be the guy to use the word "ludonarrative" anymore because that's just begging for people to skip your post.
Personally, I'm fine with it because the plotlines in this series have been throwaway all along in exchange for popcorn movie spectacle and fun pulpy dialog and characters.
It may be hard to argue that plot structure and scenario count towards gameplay inasmuch as they are framing vehicles, but it's not nearly as difficult to argue that gameplay is intrinsic to the kind of storytelling games as a medium offer. What you do tells the story of what is happening as much as any cutscene, even if the game makes as strong an attempt as possible to divorce the experience of playing from the story its telling.
Now, being dissonant doesn't have to be jarring depending on the kind of experience being delivered and the way it's handled, but the more realistic and/or cinematic a game attempts to be, the more jarring things become. I imagine this is related in some ways to the uncanny valley.
So in a cinematic game, being "gamey" actually interferes with the intent of the storytelling. Of course no one wants to be the guy to use the word "ludonarrative" anymore because that's just begging for people to skip your post.
Personally, I'm fine with it because the plotlines in this series have been throwaway all along in exchange for popcorn movie spectacle and fun pulpy dialog and characters.
Resident_UA
Member
I can agree with this. That's why I can understand when some emotional tones of U4 story don't work for people. But comparison of Uncharted 4 to Transformers is still crazy. If they don't work from story perspective for you, they don't work for totally different reasons. I just can't see those reasons as being the same.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
One thing I forgot to mention - this game thankfully, has the "Order 1886" level of 30FPS-ness. That is to say that whatever magic sauce both games are using, the 30FPS in them looks and feels like significantly better framerate than 30FPS in practically any other game. I thought that it would bother me after playing the Collection, but it doesn't even a single bit. Just as an example, I found the 30FPS much more noticeable and a bit jarring in the new R&C.
I am surprised this game is getting so much criticism in the story and pacing when TLoU didn't.
Pacing takes a massive nose dive after
Literally that entire section contains many hours of nothingness..Nothing happens in the story and all the characters you meet are inconsequential characters.
One exception could be that one scene when
Pacing takes a massive nose dive after
Tess dies right until you get to play as Ellie.
Literally that entire section contains many hours of nothingness..Nothing happens in the story and all the characters you meet are inconsequential characters.
One exception could be that one scene when
Ellie escapes into a house and confronts Joel.
These armored dudes sure are sturdy
https://youtu.be/jsI2yFauGl0
Chapter 14 man. Literally blown away.
https://youtu.be/jsI2yFauGl0
Chapter 14 man. Literally blown away.
Resident_UA
Member
The difference there is that TLoU really stuck the landing from storytelling perspective for most people. I agree that neither game is perfect, but when TLoU was over I really wanted to talk about the ending with other people.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I stand corrected. I swear there were a lot more Uncharted 4 mentions than Dark Souls mentions when i posted, but i might just be imagining things.
aggienader
Member
Timeline of events:
Tuesday, May 10th, Uncharted 4 is released to astounding reviews. The next "blockbuster hit" with GOTY portential. Considered a technical marvel/powerhouse...
Friday, May 13th, Doom is released without reviews and GAF word of mouth spreads like wildfire that the game is great. Possible GOTY. The game is good...
Monday, May 16th, Uncharted 4 story is being dissected and over analyzed. Story beats and pacing are being criticized, hence overshadowing the other many accomplishments this game has achieved.
Doom is still fun...
Congrats GAF, you've gone from Uncharted to Doom as your GOTY in less than a week...
Tuesday, May 10th, Uncharted 4 is released to astounding reviews. The next "blockbuster hit" with GOTY portential. Considered a technical marvel/powerhouse...
it is...
it is...
Monday, May 16th, Uncharted 4 story is being dissected and over analyzed. Story beats and pacing are being criticized, hence overshadowing the other many accomplishments this game has achieved.
Doom is still fun...
GOTY!!
Congrats GAF, you've gone from Uncharted to Doom as your GOTY in less than a week...
I only kid. They're both great games. But lets be honest Uncharted is too freaking great.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I disagree. The moments in the middle third of the story with Bill, Henry, and Sam are effective at world building and provide nice vignettes into the lives of the average person in TLOU. They're interesting enough onot their own that they don't need to be tied into Joel and Ellie directly and thus I don't think they affect the pace.
seems to be a pattern where a critically acclaimed AAA release is hit with backlash a few days later from people who didn't enjoy it as much.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Few more thoughts while playing the game last night:
- Man, is it really possible that cutscenes in this game are realtime, lol. I wish they'd made it so you can manipulate the camera and/or items a bit like in Order 1886 to 'prove' that cutscenes are realtime. Also noticed that so far at least, cutscenes don't really transition into gameplay like in the Batman AK or MGS5. And I kind of like that.
- PS4 sounds like it's about to propel itself off the surface I'm keeping it on. Especially if the game is paused (wtf) the fan goes into super-overdrive, and is louder than I've EVER heard my PS4 be. I'm slightly worried something in there is going to burn out because of this game tbh. When the game is actually running, the fan slows down a bit, but it's still pretty.damn.loud
- I love slow burn openings, and this was interesting as it sprinkled action bits over generally slow opening, which is good because the opening is so long.
- Man, is it really possible that cutscenes in this game are realtime, lol. I wish they'd made it so you can manipulate the camera and/or items a bit like in Order 1886 to 'prove' that cutscenes are realtime. Also noticed that so far at least, cutscenes don't really transition into gameplay like in the Batman AK or MGS5. And I kind of like that.
- PS4 sounds like it's about to propel itself off the surface I'm keeping it on. Especially if the game is paused (wtf) the fan goes into super-overdrive, and is louder than I've EVER heard my PS4 be. I'm slightly worried something in there is going to burn out because of this game tbh. When the game is actually running, the fan slows down a bit, but it's still pretty.damn.loud
- I love slow burn openings, and this was interesting as it sprinkled action bits over generally slow opening, which is good because the opening is so long.
It's almost as if people actually finished the game now and are disappointed with what they played.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Spoiler tag your post im sure there is some people in this thread who hasn't played TLOU
It's always like that.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
TLOU had the benefit of building up an interesting world along with its characters. Not to mention, the survival aspect of searching for supplies was important, so the game portion never suffered. UC4 pales in comparison.
Few more thoughts while playing the game last night:
- Man, is it really possible that cutscenes in this game are realtime, lol. I wish they'd made it so you can manipulate the camera and/or items a bit like in Order 1886 to 'prove' that cutscenes are realtime. Also noticed that so far at least, cutscenes don't really transition into gameplay like in the Batman AK or MGS5. And I kind of like that.
- PS4 sounds like it's about to propel itself off the surface I'm keeping it on. Especially if the game is paused (wtf) the fan goes into super-overdrive, and is louder than I've EVER heard my PS4 be. I'm slightly worried something in there is going to burn out because of this game tbh. When the game is actually running, the fan slows down a bit, but it's still pretty.damn.loud
- I love slow burn openings, and this was interesting as it sprinkled action bits over generally slow opening, which is good because the opening is so long.
They are real time because you can change the character assets in the game and they will carry on to the cutscenes. Also, whatever guns you have at hand will show up the same in the cutscene. I actually think that the amount of grime, or wetness is in a cutscene if you trigger it in that state.
Jimmyfenix
Member
yeah its all real time
the cut to black seems to be done intentionally rather than going from cutscene to game in UC4
the cut to black seems to be done intentionally rather than going from cutscene to game in UC4
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Ha, that would be cool. I'll make sure to check that.
Yeah, and I kind of like that, and see it as a storytelling restraint. As opposed to MGS5 where those transitions most of the time felt like "look what we can do!!!1" kind of thing.
derExperte
Member
Don't know, not a fan of the motion blur that causes visual artifacts when you move the camera fast. But it's better than what The Order used which made the screen turn into mud the millisecond you started to pan around. Here at least details don't immediately disappear, still took a few chapters to get used to and I wish I could turn it off completely and instead get more 'stutter'.
Inferno313
Banned
Do they really *never* use video? Like, even when the game crossfades to a completely new location?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Summer dragged imo - although it was a worthwhile character vehicle, it essentially revisited concepts and emotions already covered earlier - and I think Winter felt a bit like Uncharted 3 lite in parts with the constant waves of humans behind waist-high cover.
As it stands right now, I still think the structure and pacing were better. I'm not nearly done with UC4 yet of course.
The design of TLoU made linearly connected arenas feel like you had a lot of choices, but also the oppressive atmosphere and guaranteed loss of either precious resources or progress at every step gave it tension which resulted in the concept of time becoming meaningless while playing.
I consider that ideal as I'm much more about efficient level design meeting varied mechanics available to the player. TLoU mastered balancing claustrophobia with options, all of which were perfectly aligned with what was happening to the characters onscreen.
they use very short prerendered videos in some cases when doing transitions