Avery hired the best engineers
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Uncharted 4: A Thief's End |OT| You're gonna miss this ass
- Thread starter BaraSailey
- Start date
Avery hired the best engineers
I'm the opposite, I need to force myself to play this game at this point. The pacing is bad. I'm dead bored on the traversal parts. The story is ok, but nothing that would keep me on the edge of my seat. I feel as a whole this game way behind UC2 and not even in the same ballpark as TloU. I am just constantly bored.
Very surprising to see this so good scores really.
Very surprising to see this so good scores really.
Daffy Duck
Member
EVERY.TIME.
Oh look we can't get by here, oh it's OK there's an old pirate box left here.
Also one minor criticism but they really seem to have ramped up the climbing parts in this game. It feels like 80% of it is rock climbing. I am enjoying it very much though.
VanCityGamer
Member
The jeep drives very smoothly, the sections are the perfect length, great variety, and gorgeous environments. Basically, I disagree with you in every way. Love that they added it to Uncharted 4.
Man this game really dropped off for me. I was super hyped, got it three days early. Beat the campaign which was awesome, but not something i'd really want to replay apart from if I wanted to go after trophies.
MP is fine, not quite clicking with me though, plus two of my friends haven't got it yet. Kinda feel like the game is done and gone right now.
MP is fine, not quite clicking with me though, plus two of my friends haven't got it yet. Kinda feel like the game is done and gone right now.
SnowFlakeCake
Member
I feel the same. This was the first game I purchased since GT5 and was looking forward to it simply because the last game these directors made was TLOU. It's not a good game, unlike TLOU I will never play the SP again and unless co-op delivers, I'll just delete it off my hard drive.
It's only been a few weeks but can already tell this ain't going to be the kind of game that people have very fond memories of in a few years time, which TLOU and UC2 have enjoyed. It's a fuck up from Straley and particularly Druckmann, who should go write a book if he's serious about storytelling rather then forcing that down the throat of someone playing a game. Let's see where they go next, Druckmann was also writing that film but from the sounds of it, things don't look to be going brilliantly so hopefully he can put all his attention to fixing that. whilst Straley makes another game without such distractions.
It's such a shame that with this generation 3 years in, there's been no great game released. Mirrors Edge impressions are killing me, nipples going hard from Overwatch shows that standards are really really low at the moment. What a shit generation.
Primethius
Banned
Thinking UC4 will be forgotten seems like a valid view to hold.
But then listing popular games such as Overwatch and admitting you don't like them says that maybe a minority opinion probably isn't the best place to judge the long term favarabiltiy of a title.
Especially since there's been dozens of amazing games released this generation.
But then listing popular games such as Overwatch and admitting you don't like them says that maybe a minority opinion probably isn't the best place to judge the long term favarabiltiy of a title.
Especially since there's been dozens of amazing games released this generation.
I like to think this game was inspired by a real story.
*flashback to early development*
*Neil Druckmann comes home and sits next to his wife on the couch. They're both eating Thai. Neil's wife, Neilena, is talking about the new travel guide she's writing on Bangkok.*
NEILENA: "I keep running into difficulties, blah blah blah..."
*Her voice fades out of focus as Neil finds himself staring at the framed picture on the wall. A picture of a crate. A crate on wheels. Ancient pirate variety, circa 1600s.*
*The camera zooms in slowly on Neil as he wistfully chews his food, staring dreamily at the crate picture.*
NEILENA: "......hey, Neil... Neil!"
*Neil snaps out of his reverie*
NEIL: "Y-yes, honey?"
*Neilena sighs*
NEILENA: "You didn't hear a word I said, did you?"
NEIL: "U-uh, of course I did!"
*Neilena sets down her bowl and closes her eyes, defeated*
NEILENA: "Look, Neil... If you want to add another crate to Uncharted 4.... You can."
NEIL: "What? No! No..." *laughs uneasily* "I promised you I'm done adding crates."
NEILENA: "But are you happy without crates?"
NEIL: "Of course!"
NEILENA: "Are you sure? I don't want you not adding crates because of me. What about that Malaysian crate?"
NEIL: "I'm serious. I'm done adding crates!"
*Fast-forward a few weeks: Neil and his brother walk back into the motel, excitedly babbling about the crate they just added to UC4*
NEIL: "...and then you'll go to push the crate, thinking you need to use the crate to reach the upper ledge, but then goons will burst through the door, so you can use the door instead of the crate, so it'll be like a clever subversion of your expectations regarding the crate, and then —"
*Neil pauses as he sees Neilena standing in the corner of the room. She dramatically turns around, a pained look on her face."
NEILENA: "Hi Neil..."
*flashback to early development*
*Neil Druckmann comes home and sits next to his wife on the couch. They're both eating Thai. Neil's wife, Neilena, is talking about the new travel guide she's writing on Bangkok.*
NEILENA: "I keep running into difficulties, blah blah blah..."
*Her voice fades out of focus as Neil finds himself staring at the framed picture on the wall. A picture of a crate. A crate on wheels. Ancient pirate variety, circa 1600s.*
*The camera zooms in slowly on Neil as he wistfully chews his food, staring dreamily at the crate picture.*
NEILENA: "......hey, Neil... Neil!"
*Neil snaps out of his reverie*
NEIL: "Y-yes, honey?"
*Neilena sighs*
NEILENA: "You didn't hear a word I said, did you?"
NEIL: "U-uh, of course I did!"
*Neilena sets down her bowl and closes her eyes, defeated*
NEILENA: "Look, Neil... If you want to add another crate to Uncharted 4.... You can."
NEIL: "What? No! No..." *laughs uneasily* "I promised you I'm done adding crates."
NEILENA: "But are you happy without crates?"
NEIL: "Of course!"
NEILENA: "Are you sure? I don't want you not adding crates because of me. What about that Malaysian crate?"
NEIL: "I'm serious. I'm done adding crates!"
*Fast-forward a few weeks: Neil and his brother walk back into the motel, excitedly babbling about the crate they just added to UC4*
NEIL: "...and then you'll go to push the crate, thinking you need to use the crate to reach the upper ledge, but then goons will burst through the door, so you can use the door instead of the crate, so it'll be like a clever subversion of your expectations regarding the crate, and then —"
*Neil pauses as he sees Neilena standing in the corner of the room. She dramatically turns around, a pained look on her face."
NEILENA: "Hi Neil..."
Oh, gee, I don't know, I despise my second playthrough right now. Hate it so much that I enjoy it more than my first playthrough. Wait, I made a mistake somewhere, guess where.
Hint: I disagree completely.
Primethius
Banned
I've found the opposite to be the case. And I think others have echoed a similar sentiment. The pacing itself tends to be much quicker due to not having the urge to explore so heavily.
And I don't think that's really true,concerning pushing the left stick and listening to dialogue. That was very minimal and I can't recall many situations where that happened, especially to warrant a broad label like that.
Well obviously you have to hammer x to climb or hold R2 while in the jeep, but it's basically the same. No player agency.
Fancy Clown
Member
Finished my second playthrough last night and loved the game even more. I actually liked the ending a lot more this time too, it fits in well with the others and contrary to what others have said but I think it definitely follows through on the themes and character development building throughout the game. People are too hung up on
My biggest criticisms from the first time around still stand though: not enough gunfights and setpieces to keep the pace moving, and chapter 16 still didn't work for me me. I also think the hard difficulty is a bit too hard, the level of damage you take seems akin to crushing in the other games. You can still pull off some cool moves, but that gets significantly harder in the last third as the combat sequences get much harder.
Because of those flaws I still like Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us better, but sitting at third place with those games is mighty good company. I'll definitely replay this game more times down the line just as I did the other ones, although maybe not quite as much thanks to the length and pacing. But I've already sunk 30 hours into the campaign in under a month of owning it so that's a really good sign.
Random musings from my second playthrough:
-I like how Sam asks
-Still really like the final boss. The animations are amazing and you have enough control and it's fast enough that it doesn't feel like a QTE fight. And I like that you can attack as a means of trying to stall the boss and regain some health. It seems like with this and Last of Us Naughty Dog is really starting to make some fun bossnfights finally, and I hope they'll eventually make one that uses the full mechanica of a the game (like Lazaravic but fun). And I add 100 points to any boss who shit talks you during the fight and after you die, and
is a top notch shit talker. Such a good villain.
- I really like the arsenal in this game, all the weapons feel great and there's quite a bit more variety than in the other ones. I like how the ammo you can hold is low too, forcing you to run around and swap guns on the fly, really reinforcing the mobile and scrappy combat the game excels at. Flintlock pistol is my fav gun, dooo satisfying to use. I dig how power weapons have gold gun outlines on the HUD too.
- The first half of chapter 13 is a good counter point to the desert walk in Uncharted 3. It's a lot more minimalist and less grand but ultimately I think it might be more effective.
- A lot of stuff in this game recalls things from 3 actually. It feels more like a sequel to 3 than to 2 in some ways, which I'm fine with since it does them better generally and I already loved 3.
- puzzles are much better paced in this one than the others I think, and they're overall the best or at least on par with 3's.
- I like how the game is structured, with 3 mini adventures in distinct locations and feels very classic Uncharted before a mid second act climax, and then shifting moods and the whole last half is building in one location ala Drake's Fortune. It takes the best of the globetrotting, and the atmosphere of one location since you're there for like 7 hours.
-I think Uncharted 2 still has my favorite locations, but that's just total personal preference since this game's locations are mind blowingly gorgeous and the most fleshed out. But I just love the snowy mountains of Among Thieves too much. It's partly why
might be my favorite part of this game.
Sam not dying because he doesn't get "punished". He would have died though, but this is Nate's story and because Nate came to his realization he was "allowed" (thematically) to save Sam. Plus the whole game was building to that point bevause a main source of internal conflict for Nate was the guilt he fuilt for watching Sam die once before, so he wasn't going to let it happen again. And now that Sam is alive, his development is allowed to continue, and he can eventually come to the same realization as Nate did after he's had a few adventures of his own to make up for his lost time and stunted development. And now I really want the DLC to be a Sam and Sully high octane adventure, with Chloe and Cutter making appearances. Sam is definitely bad boy enough for Chloe and her booty.
My biggest criticisms from the first time around still stand though: not enough gunfights and setpieces to keep the pace moving, and chapter 16 still didn't work for me me. I also think the hard difficulty is a bit too hard, the level of damage you take seems akin to crushing in the other games. You can still pull off some cool moves, but that gets significantly harder in the last third as the combat sequences get much harder.
Because of those flaws I still like Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us better, but sitting at third place with those games is mighty good company. I'll definitely replay this game more times down the line just as I did the other ones, although maybe not quite as much thanks to the length and pacing. But I've already sunk 30 hours into the campaign in under a month of owning it so that's a really good sign.
Random musings from my second playthrough:
-I like how Sam asks
if the island is shaped like a skull and Nate says no, but at the end of the game when you get around to the other side of the mountain at the end of the game it totally looks like a skull. Like a shark skull or something.
-Still really like the final boss. The animations are amazing and you have enough control and it's fast enough that it doesn't feel like a QTE fight. And I like that you can attack as a means of trying to stall the boss and regain some health. It seems like with this and Last of Us Naughty Dog is really starting to make some fun bossnfights finally, and I hope they'll eventually make one that uses the full mechanica of a the game (like Lazaravic but fun). And I add 100 points to any boss who shit talks you during the fight and after you die, and
Rafe
- I really like the arsenal in this game, all the weapons feel great and there's quite a bit more variety than in the other ones. I like how the ammo you can hold is low too, forcing you to run around and swap guns on the fly, really reinforcing the mobile and scrappy combat the game excels at. Flintlock pistol is my fav gun, dooo satisfying to use. I dig how power weapons have gold gun outlines on the HUD too.
- The first half of chapter 13 is a good counter point to the desert walk in Uncharted 3. It's a lot more minimalist and less grand but ultimately I think it might be more effective.
- A lot of stuff in this game recalls things from 3 actually. It feels more like a sequel to 3 than to 2 in some ways, which I'm fine with since it does them better generally and I already loved 3.
- puzzles are much better paced in this one than the others I think, and they're overall the best or at least on par with 3's.
- I like how the game is structured, with 3 mini adventures in distinct locations and feels very classic Uncharted before a mid second act climax, and then shifting moods and the whole last half is building in one location ala Drake's Fortune. It takes the best of the globetrotting, and the atmosphere of one location since you're there for like 7 hours.
-I think Uncharted 2 still has my favorite locations, but that's just total personal preference since this game's locations are mind blowingly gorgeous and the most fleshed out. But I just love the snowy mountains of Among Thieves too much. It's partly why
Scotland
CaptainofIndustry
Member
Finished the game last night. I am going to miss this series so much. I absolutely loved the ending. Not sure if there are a ton of ND developers lurking on the board, but if so I want to thank you for such a wonderful series. Uncharted 4 was one of the best games I have ever played. The set pieces in this game made my jaw drop and I actually found myself getting a little choked up during some of the cut scenes. Well done, Naughty Dog, well done.
I also got a few rounds of multiplayer in last night and had a blast.
I also got a few rounds of multiplayer in last night and had a blast.
I mean, if you're going to be that reductive about it of course it sounds like shit.
What about all those times you just hold L2 to aim and tap R2 to shoot? I mean sure, you can choose when and where to do it but the end result is the same.
You could probably apply the statement to 3D Mario and Mario Kart, which kind of shows how reductive it is.
Fancy Clown
Member
How is the jeep "no player agency"? Is driving a car in any other game no agency either because all you have to do is accelerate and steer? The vehicle sections probably have the most agency considering all the freedom of where you have to go, and you make use of the jeep in multiple ways.
Always-honest
Banned
I was thinking the same. But i started a new run on easy to test out some new audio stuff i bought and i also noticed the game is more fun when you skip the cutscenes and don't look for treasures.
But yeah, climbing wil still be boring most go the time.
travisbickle
Member
Ironically, constantly hammering x slows you down while climbing.
I just drove it from point A to B and had fights off the car. If you refer to the crane as meaningful agency then we disagree. The car and the environment were visually cool, but just another section where I felt I did nothing worthwhile.
Well the shooting sections test your skill and creativity in how you dispose of the enemies.
Nice detailed thoughts which I generally agree with again.
The thing the game does best is develop Libertalia in a way that feels more fleshed out than the Island in U1. It also has a surprising amount of visual variety compared to that game.
The biggest takeaway from my second playthrough was the mini adventures. It does feel quite broken up which is very different from the previous games (except maybe 3).
It would be pretty awesome if for the DLC they made an action packed 5-6 hour episode of
Sam and Sully
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeah that'd be perfect. I doubt it will be 5-6 hours long though, they probably don't gave the time or budget to make it that long with the quality we expect, especially if they put a crazy set piece in there. I'd be fine with a 3 hour roller coaster, but the longer the better as long as there's a good amount of action.
I guess I'm not really sure what you mean or want out of agency with the jeep...like its a jeep, it's meant to get you from one place to the other. And this one has some open environements so you can explore in the jeep, use it as a platform to reach high places, use the winch to break beams or get up steep slopes, run people over in combat.
I guess your definition of what worthwhile gameplay is though. If gameplay has to be challenging and have the constant threat of a fail state then yeah driving the jeep wouldn't be fun for you. But I enjoyed it a lot. It was fun to drive, I liked the uses for it, and added to the feeling of adventure. Just a couple bros riding around a huge and gorgeous environment telling stories, and stopping for treasure, fights, and environmental puzzles along the way.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Of course there are other people who feel the same as you. The thing is, there was never as much complaining about this kind me of stuff in response to Umcharted 2 or TLoU. Core gameplay wasn't out in the backseat nearly as much in those games as it has now.
I absolutely have enjoyed the second playthrough less than the first outside of the combat sections. The climbing and basic traversal are not fun enough to carry long stretches of the game. Even when I've found notes/locations I didn't see the first time through (i.e. the well and other outposts in Chapter 10), none of them tie back into the main game in a meaningful way (treasures don't affect the current playthrough, two-shot flintlocks pistols are the only hidden power weapons it seems) and they are only short detours, brief diversions off the beaten path.
The shootouts not only demand some level of attention, planning and reaction from the player (like anlotnofngames do), they also play out considerably different every time. Compare that to the frequent climbing sections, the puzzles and the open exploration areas which play out the same each time, and only occasionally give the player a high degree of control (e.g. maneuvering the truck and swinging from the grappling hook have higher degrees of control than climbing from one handhold to another).
There's so little engaging flow In 4 that I've stopped multiple times during the second playthrough as I know when the lulls in action are coming, I've heard all the dialogue already and I know where to climb, what's going to happen, and so forth. It just isn't fun to replay those non-combat segments even after I enjoyed them the first time. I remember almost immediately going back through 2 when I played it, and at any given moment, I wanted to keep pushing forward. With 4, that does not happen without the draw of the story unfurling, or wondering what new locations are coming up.
The story didn't need so many breaks in not only the action, but in actual story progression. Jose long stretches of linear, borderline automated traversal do not contribute to the story, at least not enough to warrant taking up so much time and being so basic and unengaging.
Yeah, there are some people saying they're enjoying it more the second time around, but there's been more well-founded and well-laid out criticism for this game being boring/unfun, particularly on a replay, than I've seen for ND's last few games.
I have this hope that they designed a lot more combat scenarios than were actually used in the game (I mean they had to, what else were those guys doing during development?) and that these could be easily adapted to the DLC.
One can dream.
This is a collection of GIFs I made that did not quite fit the tone I was trying to set in my LTTP write-up of this series
examples:
my first sniper encounter ever
e: fixed album link
examples:
my first sniper encounter ever
e: fixed album link
Primethius
Banned
I guess...
But this is a pretty reductionist view that can be applied to a lot of games. So needless to say, I'm not in agreement.
Spring-Loaded
Member
The game isn't going for the same thing as Uncharted, but compare the climbing to Grow Home's where it isn't essentially a series of scripted animations between handholds along a linear path. Climbing up high requires more planning, a higher degree of control over the player character and has more moment-to-moment agency than it does in UC4.
It's not that reductionist to say the climbing in 4 lacks agency on its own. When combined with combat or other craziness, it works, and its automation/simplicity make sense because it would be too complicated to work as needed during an intense shootout. But it's frequently presented on its own, front and center for long stretches in this game.
potatohead
Member
I think people are confusing agency with precision.
Agency means control. Can you control where you move easily in UC4 or any UC game? Yes. Do you directly control the direction of his movements? Yes. That is agency.
Precision means timing and judging distance. Uncharted jumping does not require precision. It's not trying to require that either. All you need in Uncharted is the approximate direction and approximate distance to make the jumps and platforming, and that benefits its style of gameplay greatly.
Conversely a game like TR Legend has both, agency and precision as requirements for platforming.
In fact the most "agency and precision" were the earliest TR games, that did no hand-holding whatsoever in the platforming segments. Everything about platforming is pure precision in TR all the way up to Angel of Darkness. The games don't auto-adjust your jumps at all, unlike TR 6th gen.
Whereas in TR 6th gen for say jumping between 2 poles or hand grabs, if you get the direction right, you will get the jump. TR Anniversary has the added depth of the manual grab (optional).
Agency. Precision. Two words, completely different meanings.
Agency means control. Can you control where you move easily in UC4 or any UC game? Yes. Do you directly control the direction of his movements? Yes. That is agency.
Precision means timing and judging distance. Uncharted jumping does not require precision. It's not trying to require that either. All you need in Uncharted is the approximate direction and approximate distance to make the jumps and platforming, and that benefits its style of gameplay greatly.
Conversely a game like TR Legend has both, agency and precision as requirements for platforming.
In fact the most "agency and precision" were the earliest TR games, that did no hand-holding whatsoever in the platforming segments. Everything about platforming is pure precision in TR all the way up to Angel of Darkness. The games don't auto-adjust your jumps at all, unlike TR 6th gen.
Whereas in TR 6th gen for say jumping between 2 poles or hand grabs, if you get the direction right, you will get the jump. TR Anniversary has the added depth of the manual grab (optional).
Agency. Precision. Two words, completely different meanings.
Primethius
Banned
Sorry, I can't agree with this definition of agency because it imposes difficulty as an underlying factor alongside complexity.
And taking that definition to its end result would remove the nuance in analyzing titles which you could then say have no agency because of a lack of difficulty or complexity but still in actuality afford player complete agency.
And since I can't agree with the definition, I'll have to disagree overall. It is far too reductionist and simplistic in its analysis.
I was on a media blackout but it is hard to avoid the E3 media. I completely agree with your sentiment.
Lys Skygge
Member
In Super Mario you just hold right on the D-Pad and occasionally press the A button.
Am I doing it right?
potatohead
Member
Needs higher concern level.
I undrstand why people are divided with the Nadine fights but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtZsOy_E4Ko
I love how they are handled. The alternatives would not have been better. I mean if it were just a cutscene it would rob players to prove they can fight her and hurt her presence, on the other hand, and one that irks me most in games is that you kick her ass but the cutscene right after says otherwise as if the fight didn't occur. In its current state you have control, struggle and she overpowers you. Reminds me of fighting against Gogandantess in Musha 2 which is so good.
mickcenary
Member
I really can't believe some of the pacing issues thus far (a few encounters into Madagascar), not to mention the fact that developers think having a ledge crumble beneath us is exciting in this day and age. Groan city.
Unimpressed on the whole at this point, but it's Uncharted and it's still charming the pants off me in a few ways.
Unimpressed on the whole at this point, but it's Uncharted and it's still charming the pants off me in a few ways.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
If you want non-stop combat action, play the multiplayer. Even in its current, bare-bones, state there's plenty to enjoy.
For me, the whole point of the campaign was the story. If you just want to replay the action high-spots you can pick by chapter or encounter. Same deal if you want to play completionist and get all the treasures/journals/notes through meticulous searching.
I enjoyed the campaign more second time because I attacked it with a kind of relaxed speed-run mindset. The traversal shines because a mixture of memory and slick assist mechanics allowed me to zip through those sections at a rate that would make Indiana Jones blush.
Combat sequences were improved similarly due to me taking a more aggressive and adventurous approach, often resulting in things playing out very differently as I'd find myself in unfamiliar areas and situations.
Some cut-scenes I'd skip, but as I genuinely enjoy most of the character-work I'd let most play out. The option is always there.
The bottom line is that the campaign is what it is. If you were unsatisfied with the balance of gameplay in it the first time, obviously a replay isn't going to change your mind.
Personal preference/expectation in terms of pacing and event composition is not the same as the game itself having "issues".
potatohead
Member
I need to finish this game some time...
FlashFlooder
Member
HAHAHAHA. yea, not the most appropriate thing to let a 4-yr old watch imo.
My 3-yr old walked in on me melle-ing some dudes and asked what "that man" was doing... Told her it was ballet. She looked puzzled for a sec and then said "maybe it's fight ballet". Lol
Are these pacing issues from the perspective that shooting is the main gameplay? I feel the shooting is just enough and I found more enjoyment in the swinging, jumping, driving and story. My favourite chapters
. The way UC4 switches up gameplay, there's never a dull moment.
are actually "Hidden in plain sight " with the great clocktower platforming, and "At Sea" which on top of being gorgeous is just delightful with the sense of discovery, also "the brothers Drake" with all the awesome artifacts to interact with.
My issue
was the inability to dodge. I just have to take hits. So it didn't feel like being outmatched as much as just cheated. There just wasn't much to it where they could have presented an actual challenge that showed why Nadine is such a threat. The melee combat is half-baked in its entirety, though. Certainly not a forward step from Uncharted 3.
Shooting is the main gameplay for Uncharted. Uncharted online has never been about exportation or puzzles. Shooting is at the franchise's core. And I personally had more than a few dull moments playing UC4.
They certainly shouldn't have shown the second half of it. At least they should have left it as the E3 conference demo.
I understand why -
they had little else to show as far as bombastic Uncharted-like set-pieces go
I know its different with everyone but I feel UC4 melee captures exactly how in my head a character like Nate should fight because it highlights struggle. UC3 melee was really bad imo they tried to make something which should be simple and just another arsenal at Nate's disposal into point of way too much emphasises. Pulling people into a boxing match, dodging like a pro , didn't feel it at all.
Love shooting too and it was the mainstay of the trilogy, yes UC4 feels a like part of it but it's so much more thats why I dont mind the lack of shooty rooms back to back... to back. This is the first UC that I feel they nailed the formula of an UC game between involved platforming, fantastic puzzles, shooting of course and character/Artifact interactions. As for MP that's got nothing to do with anything, its alt universe UC. Reminds me I still gotta try it, if nothing else then to satisfy my lust for the rope lol.
Best Musha!
Fancy Clown
Member
Those sections were really cool looking and certainly better than a cutscene, but I agree it was a missed opportunity to have more control. The final boss was a much better take on it.
I disagree about melee not being a step forward though. It's easily the best melee they've had in a game, even counting the last of us. The struggles with enemies are more engaging than the slow mo counter window and make the fights seem more two sided, and the animations and fluidity are off the charts. I miss being able to use objects in the environment or pulling grenade pins on guys from 3, but I don't miss the shove particularly, and everyhing is made up for by the fact you can melee guys from any angle. Rope melee, dropping attack melee, buddy combo melee, melee from cover...it's so good.
Me back when they showed the E3 setpiece: "holy fuck that was amazing...and considering how secretive they've been I can't imagine all the setpieces they're NOT showing us"
Me after finishing the game: ;__;
Daffy Duck
Member
Just finished it, what a game. Thought it was fantastic.
Feel really sad now knowing that's the end.
I got it Wednesday and just completed it. Couldn't put it down, brilliant game. The best of the series for me.
Feel really sad now knowing that's the end.
I got it Wednesday and just completed it. Couldn't put it down, brilliant game. The best of the series for me.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It's not about difficulty. Grow Home isn't difficult. It just gives more control to the player on a moment-to-moment basis. Climbing and traversal is that entire game, and the player is always able to influence what's going on on-screen in more ways, even if they're following the same path on a second playthrough — it's never treated as filler.
Once the illusion of danger is lost and the player already knows where to go during the climbing segments in UC4 (or in any Uncharted, really), then all that's left is pushing in a direction and hitting X for the most part. There are exceptions though: the sliding and swinging moments that involve timing are probably just as easy as the "linear handhold paths," parts, but you can't just mindlessly push up + X for lengths of time, and there's a finer degree of control available to the player.
I think the climbing in 4 is, on a base level, the best it's been in the series, but it leads me to believe that 1) they did not do enough with those core climbing mechanics to keep it interesting throughout and 2) that "push in a direction + X" and "never worry about successfully grabbing/holding onto ledges" and "huge window for successful leaps/grabs" approach might be the wrong way to go at its core, unless it's used in unexpected ways. It might be time to retire that approach, especially if it's supposed to carry (long stretches of) a game. It wasn't a huge deal in Uncharted 2 where climbing was always either a breaks or palate cleansers between action sequences or combined with the core gameplay in various ways. In 4, it takes way more game time and shows up more frequently.
It's not un-engaging because it's easy or because it doesn't demand constant twitch-action focus — turn based games can allow players to just sit in place forever, but the player is still planning their next move and weighing the possibilities of what their opponents will do. Point-and-click games can be slow, yet there's almost always something to figure out or find. Those types of games can be boring if they're not done well though, similar to how Uncharted's climbing can be used improperly.
I actually find the truck driving to be more fun since you have full control over where to drive, and while I find its functions a bit underutilized in the main game compared to the super-straightforward climbing (using the winch, finding rock paths to get enough traction, using it as a stairstep, and using it during combat), it definitely showed some promise. But again, it's only used in a couple segments, whereas the lengthy, linear, safe, automated climbing appears by itself very frequently by itself.
The multiplayer gameplay is different from singleplayer gameplay in many key ways. You're never outnumbered to the same degree, you aren't fighting A.I., there's no "unnoticed/caution/alert" reaction from opponents which means stealth is completely different, can't do jump attacks onto enemies without jumping from a rope, there are no multiplayer levels with designs like the arenas in singleplayer, no car chases where you're jumping from truck to truck during a shootout, power weapons suck in multiplayer compared to the main game, and so forth. It is fun though.
Bolded the operative words. For me, the point of the game is to have fun with it, to feel engaged rather than passively taking it in since it's a video game. The game was fun and engaging the first time through because all the story, scenery, dialogue and locations were fresh. None of that changes the second time around though, and there's nothing particularly deep about any of that — the story isn't complex/revelatory, the scenery stays the same, the dialogue stays the same, and the locations stay the same. It's all still good, but I'm just watching/hearing all of that. I don't have more than 4 dialogue choices, rarely have a choice on where to go on a micro- or a macro-scale. All of that could've been far more engaging on a mechanical level than it was, but that's all merely as it is now: static. If I had dozens of paths I could take each time through and those would change what happens in the story, or frequently had different, more provocative dialogue, then that'd be different.
The part of the game where I feel that engagement is the core gameplay — even during the standout set-piece with the truck chase, I actually have to react to what's going on, and it's engaging for me because of that. It's not ridiculous to expect a video game to be engaging to play, let alone one that's a part of an action series, let alone one that came out after the studio's previous game that had a big focus on story, yet was relatively frequently engaging with good balance between quiet, tense, emotional and exciting moments.
Getting through the climbing sections quickly just shows me how limited they are, and how restrictive they can be. Same with the puzzle segments which don't let me just put in the right answer even if I know it already (chapter 11). Those slow restrictive moments are so frequent that even when blazing through them, they take up time — it's disconcerting that a considerable chunk of a linear (supposedly) action-focused game has so many parts that bring up the discussion of how best to just rush through them.
... Yes. And I and others will discuss how and why that's the case, just like with any other game. The goal of discussing the game isn't to change what it is or anything. It's to dissect and figure out what makes the game not engaging and what makes it boring or a worse experience than its predecessors, either on a first playthrough or a second.
Even outside of being mechanically complex the traversal is just mindless in this game. The only time I'm thinking about it during it is 'can I make that jump'? There's no thinking to finding a path. You don't ever make a path. There's very few instances of even light puzzle elements in the traversal, like 'move this so you can use it to swing' or 'find a way to clear this slide-path of jagged rocks'.
Giving it long stretches of focus in the game just highlighted how vapid it is. It's a pillar of the game that isn't as engaging as the combat, or even the puzzles, IMO. And it may be the main pillar of this game.
Giving it long stretches of focus in the game just highlighted how vapid it is. It's a pillar of the game that isn't as engaging as the combat, or even the puzzles, IMO. And it may be the main pillar of this game.
FunkeeFresh
Member
Just finished the game. I had franchise fatigue after Uncharted 3, but I played the multiplayer beta and really liked it. So I thought I'd give this a shot.
It looks phenomenal, sounds fantastic, and the mocap and acting create a world with so much depth. Everything breathes, everything reacts, everything has personality. An incredible feat by Naughty Dog.
Unfortunately, I can't speak highly of the gameplay itself. It's the same old Uncharted. My biggest gripes would be the tired mechanics, and managing cover in firefights, which left me to the point of boredom and frustration. Which is funny, since I enjoyed the multiplayer. Maybe it's due to how disadvantaged you can feel against the AI sometimes. Maybe I shouldn't have played it on hard.
The narrative was hit and miss for me. Some really good scenes in places, but as a whole, felt pretty weightless. I expected a bit more from the ending, which I felt was fairly wrote.
Going to go through this thread to see what the general consensus is about the game. But from what I've seen so far, the audience has seemed more split than the critics have been
It looks phenomenal, sounds fantastic, and the mocap and acting create a world with so much depth. Everything breathes, everything reacts, everything has personality. An incredible feat by Naughty Dog.
Unfortunately, I can't speak highly of the gameplay itself. It's the same old Uncharted. My biggest gripes would be the tired mechanics, and managing cover in firefights, which left me to the point of boredom and frustration. Which is funny, since I enjoyed the multiplayer. Maybe it's due to how disadvantaged you can feel against the AI sometimes. Maybe I shouldn't have played it on hard.
The narrative was hit and miss for me. Some really good scenes in places, but as a whole, felt pretty weightless. I expected a bit more from the ending, which I felt was fairly wrote.
Going to go through this thread to see what the general consensus is about the game. But from what I've seen so far, the audience has seemed more split than the critics have been
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