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[smisk]

Booking a flight today and decided to pay an extra $30 to avoid United. Sadly I don't think it's always possible/feasible.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

This practice creates so many shitty situations.

Last year I arrived for my flight to discover my aisle seat with extra leg room had been given away and that I had been moved to a window seat near the back of the plane. I explained that I purchased the extra leg room because I have serious back problems and need to stretch out, and that at the window seat, in pain, I might experience a claustrophobic panic attack. They told me in no uncertain terms that I could take the new seat or get bumped to another flight. I needed to get home so I took the seat.

I was told my seat had been changed due to a "mechanical issue." Boarding the plane, I noticed my seat was occupied by a United employee.

As the plane began to taxi, sure enough. Had a total panic attack. Just flipped out. They had to stop the plane. Everyone hates me, makes it worse. They asked the guy they gave my seat to to switch with me so they could take off. They ended up going up and down the aisle just begging everyone to switch with me so I could at least sit on the aisle, asked that guy multiple times and he refused. Eventually found someone.

They never even refunded me for the leg room charge....said they would but never did despite multiple inquiries.

What kind of dickhead employee insists on the best seat in the house on an overbooked flight?

Why do you guys continue giving this airline money? These poll choice links are horrifying.

 

[TheOMan]

Wait - those were actual police officers?

If so, that kind of explains a lot.

 

[flkraven]

They do have a plan. It's called Code of Federal Regulations. For a domestic flight arriving more than 2hr later than originally scheduled, when you are involuntarily denied boarding, you are entitled to 400% of your 1-way fare up to $1300 in compensation. This is law.

Further, in most cases, airlines will provide accommodations and class upgrade as well if you're not being a dick.

Does this same 2-hour delay rule include when you've already had your ticket scanned, luggage loaded in and you are fully seated? What does it say about Hunger-Games-style lottery systems where the victors are rewarded bloody lips?

 

[vacantseas]

Probably a connecting flight for some.

I know. I was joking.

 

[Joni]

I like flying United because I'm not confronted by badly dressed people.

 

[n64coder]

If they just cut you a check, or have a guy with an envelope waiting to hand my $800 to get off the plane and just take the next one? I'd be running off that plane.

But if you want to give me an $800 voucher to ride on your shitty airline again? Not gonna happen.

If they had given a check instead of a voucher, I bet more people would volunteer and at a lower price. Who wants a crummy voucher?

 

[ironcreed]

That's the thing though: irrespective of how they got into this situation (and obviously United handled it very poorly), you are required by federal law to follow the instructions of he flight crew. When they told him to leave the plane and he said no, he was, in fact, breaking the law. So, from a legal perspective, the police had every right to remove him by force if he failed to comply.

Again obviously this situation was created by United and I don't agree with any of their handling of it, but it's just wrong to say that United didn't have the legal right to ask him to leave, or to call the police when he didn't.

Fuck semantics in cases like this. There is right and there is wrong. This was the latter, period. And he will be richly compensated for it as well.

 

[Sami+]

The reality that you are a paying customer and have no legal obligation to get off the plane?????????????????????

"What're you gonna do, drag me off the plane?"

 

[FrontalMonk]

Anyone standing up for United, even if they think they're just playing devil's advocate, is a real piece of work.

For me, it's less about sticking up for United, and more about thinking that if you say "fuck United" for practices like these and end up using any other airline, you're at best a fool for thinking they're different and at worst just a hypocrite.

 

[FreedomFighter]

If this guy absolutely needed to be on the plane because he needed to get to his destination, then that should be respected. He had a right to refuse. Why have everyone board the plane anyway before then realizing you need four people to take a later flight (instead of just the one)?

Cops come and brutalize him and now United has a PR disaster on their hands.

And they wonder why the lose customers to the Gulf carriers...

 

[CSJ]

Explain exactly why that makes me a scumbag? They have a right to remove anyone, for any reason. It is their business.

I genuinely hope you experience the same thing, multiple times. Only so that you can understand how it actually feels. You miss an important gathering, an interview, anything just so you can change your god damned awful way of thinking.

 

[commedieu]

Oh the guy is Asian.

Guess they don't have trouble dragging off a minority.

We tried to tell ya'll.

 

[vypek]

Those poll options are crazy. Hadn't heard of most of those news stories in those links

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

I always get an ill sense of unease whenever I see people actively defend a mega Corp doing shifty practices. What type of bizarro world is this. How can AnYONE be OK with someone being forcibly dragged from their seat. Like, this is the type of defense that allowed blacks to get their ass beat for so long. "Why didn't he just cooperate?" Shit is infuriating

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Wait - those were actual police officers?

If so, that kind of explains a lot.

Police officers against an Asian man who speaks with an accent. I'm not surprised.

You think they would have done this to a white person? Somehow I seriously doubt it.

 

[Audioboxer]

I didn't say they racially selected. I'm saying I have doubts that their computer had a random passenger selector.

Ah right, fair enough, the original poster I quoted made the 'not a white person' quip.

Of all the technology on a plane, including personal phones, PDAs and so forth, you'd expect something could use an RNG. Especially as management will need to deal with scenarios like this in training/other flights, where no one accepts compensation.

Even picking numbers randomly in your head, as long as you do not know who is sitting where for bias/influence, is still random.

That's not the issue here, it's that the airline didn't keep increasing rewards till people went without being picked and/or in this case of one passenger resisting this strongly, they should just have moved on and picked another random person. 2 people went before, another 2 were likely to do so. This guy should just have been left alone. When you're dragging someone off a plane you dun fucked up.

 

[1871]

Amazed there are idiots here defending United.

 

[Matt]

Fuck semantics in cases like this. There is right and there is wrong. This was the latter, period. And he will be richly compensated for it as well.

I'm honestly not sure about that. If he were to sue them, I agree they probably would settle, but I wonder what the suit would be for. As far as we know no United employee laid a hand on him, and there was nothing illegal about telling him to leave the plane.

It would be an interesting case.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

Disgusting. I hope he sues the fuck out of them.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Like so many corporate fucking disaster, I guarantee this is the fault of some asshole spreadsheet hero MBA at the corporate HQ that was spreadsheeting away and realized that the gate managers were giving away too much shit. Asshole probably got a promotion out of this.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

For me, it's less about sticking up for United, and more about thinking that if you say "fuck United" for practices like these and end up using any other airline, you're at best a fool for thinking they're different and at worst just a hypocrite.

So because all airlines are bad, one can't be the worst? I guess I'm not following your logic here.

 

[MisterR]

They could have easily gotten the employees a rental car. Chicago to Louisville isn't even much of a drive. What a dumb ass company.

 

[sirap]

For me, it's less about sticking up for United, and more about thinking that if you say "fuck United" for practices like these and end up using any other airline, you're at best a fool for thinking they're different and at worst just a hypocrite.

Well unless you're a billionaire and own your own jet you're not left with much of a choice.

Best you can do is to stop supporting companies that continue to allow shit like this to happen.

 

[Nafai1123]

The airline allows the flight to be overbooked. It's their responsibility to figure out how to deal with that shit without forcibly assaulting their customers.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

I'm honestly not sure about that. If he were to sue them, I agree they probably would settle, but I wonder what the suit would be for. As far as we know no United employee laid a hand on him, and there was nothing illegal about telling him to leave the plane.

It would be an interesting case.

It'd likely be a lawsuit against the police for excessive force.

And then tacking on something related to negligence or something like that in how they carried out the voluntary lottery. Just because they are allowed to ask people to leave by law doesn't mean they handled the procedure 100% perfectly.

 

[ironcreed]

I'm honestly not sure about that. If he were to sue them, I agree they probably would settle, but I wonder what the suit would be for. As far as we know no United employee laid a hand on him, and there was nothing illegal about telling him to leave the plane.

It would be an interesting case.

Regardless, he will sue and they will settle... fast. If nothing, for PR purposes alone. This is a disaster of their own making.

 

[nature boy]

So how much is the guy going to be compensated?

Worth the hassle for 4 workers lol.

P.S.: Can't believe some people are defending United. The fuck is wrong with you?

 

[bloodydrake]

He said he was a doctor who needed to see patients in the morning.

yes most family doctors have appointments ..doesn't mean they couldn't be rescheduled.
there's a difference between that and a doctor that's going to be going into surgery

 

[Matt]

It'd likely be a lawsuit against the police for excessive force.

Well that would be a whole other suit, not involving United.

 

[FreedomFighter]

-United and most/all airlines feel that overbooking is the best way of maximizing profits for flights in order to ensure they are filled to maximum capacity
-Most of the time this isn't an issue
-Sometimes too many people actually show up and some people are asked to give up their seat and offered replacement flights
-Often times this isn't enough, so airlines offer incentives to help motivate people to give up their flight and feel better about the whole situation
-United capped this incentive at $800 <<< This is where United fucked up
<<Here is where they continued to fuck up>>
-United didn't really have a plan for what happens if people don't volunteer for $800, so they did a lottery system where 4 lucky winners get to be kicked off the flight
-United didn't plan for the situation where someone would resist leaving the flight
-United smashed a guys face and dragged him off a flight by force after he paid for his ticket, sat down, and did nothing wrong (other than refusing $800).

The crux of the problem is the $800. They should have properly planned for when $800 isn't enough (and in 2017, $800 really isn't that much). They should increase it to $1,200 or $1,600 etc, and that should be in their budget. Like I said, if they are benefiting from overbooking, their cost benefit analysis should include the PROPER cost of having to buy someone out of their seat. They can't rely on breaking peoples faces if they don't comply.

I think this is a great post.

 

[cchum]

I'm honestly not sure about that. If he were to sue them, I agree they probably would settle, but I wonder what the suit would be for. As far as we know no United employee laid a hand on him, and there was nothing illegal about telling him to leave the plane.

It would be an interesting case.

He's already won: (Granted this is UK, but it applies)
"Article 17 of the Montreal Convention protects passengers by providing that airlines are liable for death or bodily injury of a passenger upon the condition that the accident that caused the death or injury took place on board the aircraft or while embarking/disembarking. UK Courts have also ruled in a case involving British Airways, that “an accident is a distinct event, not having been any part of the usual, normal and expected operation of the aircraft.”

Commented Campbell, “if a passenger has been injured during air travel by anything that is out of the norm, then the airline is strictly liable. There is actually no need to prove that the airline has been negligent.”
"https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2016/August-2016/Know-your-rights-if-you-are-injured-in-flight

 

[reKon]

That poll though. Just wow LOL

Really United...?

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Well that would be a whole other suit, not involving United.

Well as they arise from the same facts and circumstances they'd likely be brought together. Especially since this was likely an interstate flight and would likely be all federal anyway.

 

[bootsthecat]

I'm honestly not sure about that. If he were to sue them, I agree they probably would settle, but I wonder what the suit would be for. As far as we know no United employee laid a hand on him, and there was nothing illegal about telling him to leave the plane.

It would be an interesting case.

I wonder the same. It was law enforcement that pulled him off the plane, not United employees. As long as there was no unnecessary force (the video doesn't show anything one way or the other) I wonder what recourse the guy has.

What United did was shitty, but he should've gotten his as out of that plane on his own accord the minute the cops showed up. Fighting for your plane seat rights in front of 3 armed men isn't taking a stand, it's bad decision-making.

He's already won: (Granted this is UK, but it applies)

What applies? Is it US law, or isn't it?

 

[ironcreed]

So how much is the guy going to be compensated?

Worth the hassle for 4 workers lol.

P.S.: Can't believe some people are defending United. The fuck is wrong with you?

 

[LiK]

This is fucking insane. Fuck United. That's not how you treat customers. Your fault you overbooked, you wankers.

Sue the shit outta them.

 

[ironcreed]

yes most family doctors have appointments ..doesn't mean they couldn't be rescheduled.
there's a difference between that and a doctor that's going to be going into surgery

Okay, we get it. Just as long as the airline takes top priority over it's paying customers.

 

[reKon]

Of course there would be a defense for United. OF COURSE there would be here. I haven't read through all the pages in this thread though, so I have no idea if it's big defense force or not.

 

[UncleMeat]

The fact that nobody thought it might be a bad idea to drag a paying customer off of their own overbooked flight to sit United employees just shows what arrogant assholes they are. I hope this guy sues the shit out of United, fuck them.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

yes most family doctors have appointments ..doesn't mean they couldn't be rescheduled.
there's a difference between that and a doctor that's going to be going into surgery

The fuck? Where are you getting this information?

There is zero indication this is a general physician and not a surgeon seeing patients for surgery consultation.

He even says "in the hospital," not a private practice.

 

[Calm waterfall]

So, they asked for volunteers, nobody wanted to leave. Then they picked 4 random seats. Guy refused to leave and cooperate with security. They want to force him, he hits his face when falling down.

Situation was handled badly, but I also get why they needed him to leave. You can't just have people refuse in a plane, otherwise everybody would just go "fuck off" when it happens to them.

Is this a joke? The guy paid for a seat, he should get it. It´s all on United for being a shitty airline that overbook their flights.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

"This indeed is America, greatest nation on earth, but I'm sorry we just don't have time to treat you as if you're a human being deserving of any respect. The corporation's time and money are at stake, you understand"

 

[Aselith]

Yes, it's probably a one-time thing. And it's also at United's own fare rates, not discounted rates you can find online from travel sites like Travelocity or Expedia or discounted fares you could find from other airlines, and therefore the United voucher is probably only worth about 70% or so of the value printed on it.

Those sites don't give you discounted rates they just search through multiple carrier for the lowest price. I used to work for Expedia and we even had a way to set up flights directly through the airline and create a fake itinerary on the site if we needed to due to system issues. Hotels were different but flights are just the fare that you'd get through the airline. We didn't even discount flights, any promotions applied to hotels and shit.

 

[bloodydrake]

The reality that you are a paying customer and have no legal obligation to get off the plane?????????????????????

Well that's not actual reality that's fantasy.
You are legally obligated to get off the plane when directed to by the crew and police.

 

[cchum]

I wonder the same. It was law enforcement that pulled him off the plane, not United employees. As long as there was no unnecessary force (the video doesn't show anything one way or the other) I wonder what recourse the guy has.

What United did was shitty, but he should've gotten his as out of that plane on his own accord the minute the cops showed up. Fighting for your plane seat rights in front of 3 armed men isn't taking a stand, it's bad decision-making.



What applies? Is it US law, or isn't it?

The US has adopted the Convention. It applies.

"The United States Supreme Court has defined “accident” under the Convention as “an unexpected or unusual event or happening that is external to the passenger.” Air France v. Saks, 470 U.S. 392, 405 (1985). This admittedly ambiguous definition has been defined broadly by courts to encompass passenger-to-passenger assaults, airplane hijacking, as well as the failure of an airline to provide proper medical attention to an ill passenger." https://www.bostoninjurylawyer-blog...injury-or-death-on-international-flights.html

Sounds exactly right.

 

[mjc]

Pretty disgusting seeing the posts defending United in here.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

I wonder the same. It was law enforcement that pulled him off the plane, not United employees. As long as there was no unnecessary force (the video doesn't show anything one way or the other) I wonder what recourse the guy has.

What United did was shitty, but he should've gotten his as out of that plane on his own accord the minute the cops showed up. Fighting for your plane seat rights in front of 3 armed men isn't taking a stand, it's bad decision-making.



What applies? Is it US law, or isn't it?

The lawsuit will be heard in federal court I'm sure as it's going to involve airport police which I believe should be federal.

And actually I think it was a great decision. Just because something is law doesn't mean it's right. In this case the law is the way it is because airlines have incredible lobbies that essentially bribe people in the government to push something like that through. Furthermore it's a great decision because in addition to fighting for your rights and principles, he's going to get a big settlement for this. A bloody mouth heals very quickly, quicker still when you've got a couple hundred thousand or a million in your bank account.

 

[Matt]

The US has adopted the Convention. It applies.

"The United States Supreme Court has defined “accident” under the Convention as “an unexpected or unusual event or happening that is external to the passenger.” Air France v. Saks, 470 U.S. 392, 405 (1985). This admittedly ambiguous definition has been defined broadly by courts to encompass passenger-to-passenger assaults, airplane hijacking, as well as the failure of an airline to provide proper medical attention to an ill passenger." https://www.bostoninjurylawyer-blog...injury-or-death-on-international-flights.html

Sounds exactly right.

I honestly doubt a court would find that applies to injuries received when resisting law enforcement.

Again all of this would be a really interesting court case.

 

[Diablohead]

I just heard about this, extremely upsetting to see, shocking.