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[Quotient]

I mean, he probably thought he has some rights beyond being unwillingly dragged out of there. That's not beyond the pale to be honest, when I've done nothing wrong I don't think I can be slammed into an armrest and physically dragged out of a plane.

Because he had a seat that he paid for, with urgent commitments at the other end. That should be the end of the discussion.

Airlines can't just be ordering passengers to leave the plane, much less assaulting them and carrying them off. They should have just kept upping the incentive.

This is going to cost United millions of dollars in damages and lost business.

Once the police turn up and tell him to leave did he think the Police were going to accept his answer of "no"? From what i understand even if you are a paying customer airlines have the right to remove you from the plane and either refund you the ticket or put you on another flight.

To make it clear i don't like what united did.

 

[Skyzard]

I like how they aren't authorized to offer more compensation, but they are authorized to call in people to come beat up customers.

A+ would fly again

.

 

[flkraven]

-United and most/all airlines feel that overbooking is the best way of maximizing profits for flights in order to ensure they are filled to maximum capacity
-Most of the time this isn't an issue
-Sometimes too many people actually show up and some people are asked to give up their seat and offered replacement flights
-Often times this isn't enough, so airlines offer incentives to help motivate people to give up their flight and feel better about the whole situation
-United capped this incentive at $800 <<< This is where United fucked up
<<Here is where they continued to fuck up>>
-United didn't really have a plan for what happens if people don't volunteer for $800, so they did a lottery system where 4 lucky winners get to be kicked off the flight
-United didn't plan for the situation where someone would resist leaving the flight
-United smashed a guys face and dragged him off a flight by force after he paid for his ticket, sat down, and did nothing wrong (other than refusing $800).

The crux of the problem is the $800. They should have properly planned for when $800 isn't enough (and in 2017, $800 really isn't that much). They should increase it to $1,200 or $1,600 etc, and that should be in their budget. Like I said, if they are benefiting from overbooking, their cost benefit analysis should include the PROPER cost of having to buy someone out of their seat. They can't rely on breaking peoples faces if they don't comply.

 

[Tonedeff]

Once the police turn up and tell him to leave did he think the Police were going to accept his answer of "no"? From what i understand even if you are a paying customer airlines have the right to remove you from the plane and either refund you the ticket or put you on another flight.

To make it clear i don't like what united did.

Prepare to have your loyalty to the human race questioned

 

[Two Words]

As much as I said this was a mess earlier, it's not a good sight seeing many unable to read in here or making shit up.

4 passengers were randomly chosen, this has nothing to do with selecting based on race/ethnicity.

It's in the OP



It'll be seat numbers or ticket numbers.

What "computer" exactly. Having a random passenger selector would have to already exist.I would need to see some proof that that actually existed.

 

[MisterR]

I do obviously. Which is why I posted my fucking opinion. Again: UA could've handled this better, but they do have a right to kick you off their flights, a right which I support them having, so dude should've cooperated.

You've got the perfect name to be having this argument.

 

[Sylas]

Once the police turn up and tell him to leave did he think the Police were going to accept his answer of "no"? From what i understand even if you are a paying customer airlines have the right to remove you from the plane and either refund you the ticket or put you on another flight.

To make it clear i don't like what united did.

They absolutely have the right to do that but the problem really lies in two place and in order of operation.

1) Just choose another goddamn passenger when the guy says he's a doctor and has patients to see. Like, seriously. What the fuck did United think would happen?

2) Don't call the cops. Just ask another person to leave. If they'd have asked me I would've taken $800 since I'm not a doctor with people who need me.

 

[ironcreed]

I mean, they knocked out a paying customer who did nothing wrong and dragged him off of the plane like a bag of garbage because he did not want to give up his seat due to their screw up. Yet, he is in the wrong? Sometimes I think some of you would love it if everything just turned into 1984. Jesus.

 

[marrec]

Once the police turn up and tell him to leave did he think the Police were going to accept his answer of "no"? From what i understand even if you are a paying customer airlines have the right to remove you from the plane and either refund you the ticket or put you on another flight.

To make it clear i don't like what united did.

No like, honestly, if I was this dude and I 100% needed to be back home in time for some really important shit I'd be legit confused if the police came and were like "we're sorry sir you have to leave" cause up to that point I'd done nothing wrong. Here I am just a normal paying customer and suddenly the airline is making up shit to get me kicked off a plane.

Oh my number was randomly chosen? Randomly chose someone else fuckos I got shit to do.

At that point nobody should be surprised that someone thought their rights as a citizen of the united states to not be physically assaulted by the police would trump the rights of United to arbitrarily kick you off their plane.

Of course, they'd be wrong, but nobody should be fucking surprised by this.

 

[Mimosa97]

You've got the perfect name to be having this argument.

Amazing

 

[Machina]

If I were one of the witnesses, I would have lost my fucking shit.

 

[Muskieratboi]

Dafuq?

Well, this is a fucking multi-million dollar lawsuit waiting to happen...

 

[Belker]

Has anyone confirmed that he is actually a doctor?

It's very easy for these stories to gather momentum without all the facts being in place. Until they are, it's hard to know how bad this is going to be either for the man who was dragged off the plane or the airline.

If it's proved he's a doctor and had appointments it's going to get worse, moreso if he's something like an oncologist or paediatrician.

 

[marrec]

If I were one of the witnesses, I would have lost my fucking shit.

I'd be been like:

 

[Quotient]

They absolutely have the right to do that but the problem really lies in two place and in order of operation.

1) Just choose another goddamn passenger when the guy says he's a doctor and has patients to see. Like, seriously. What the fuck did United think would happen?

2) Don't call the cops. Just ask another person to leave. If they'd have asked me I would've taken $800 since I'm not a doctor with people who need me.

I don't think either option would work, a mandatory removal is no longer mandatory if people have the option to say no. No one was willing to leave when they offered $800, the issue in my mind is that United need to improve their offers to entice folks to willing leave.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

-United and most/all airlines feel that overbooking is the best way of maximizing profits for flights in order to ensure they are filled to maximum capacity
-Most of the time this isn't an issue
-Sometimes too many people actually show up and some people are asked to give up their seat and offered replacement flights
-Often times this isn't enough, so airlines offer incentives to help motivate people to give up their flight and feel better about the whole situation
-United capped this incentive at $800 <<< This is where United fucked up
<<Here is where they continued to fuck up>>
-United didn't really have a plan for what happens if people don't volunteer for $800, so they did a lottery system where 4 lucky winners get to be kicked off the flight
-United didn't plan for the situation where someone would resist leaving the flight
-United smashed a guys face and dragged him off a flight by force after he paid for his ticket, sat down, and did nothing wrong (other than refusing $800).

The crux of the problem is the $800. They should have properly planned for when $800 isn't enough (and in 2017, $800 really isn't that much). They should increase it to $1,200 or $1,600 etc, and that should be in their budget. Like I said, if they are benefiting from overbooking, their cost benefit analysis should include the PROPER cost of having to buy someone out of their seat. They can't rely on breaking peoples faces if they don't comply.

Damn for domestic flights, I'd almost reschedule any flight for $800-1600 bucks.

 

[old manatee]

I'm just picturing the employee who sat in the seat after a paying customer was dragged out of it. I hope they had a nice flight.

 

[ClosingADoor]

They absolutely have the right to do that but the problem really lies in two place and in order of operation.

1) Just choose another goddamn passenger when the guy says he's a doctor and has patients to see. Like, seriously. What the fuck did United think would happen?

2) Don't call the cops. Just ask another person to leave. If they'd have asked me I would've taken $800 since I'm not a doctor with people who need me.

They offered the $800 to everyone, no one volunteered to take it.

 

[shintoki]

Has anyone confirmed that he is actually a doctor?

It's very easy for these stories to gather momentum without all the facts being in place. Until they are, it's hard to know how bad this is going to be either for the man who was dragged off the plane or the airline.

If it's proved he's a doctor and had appointments it's going to get worse, moreso if he's something like an oncologist or paediatrician.

It doesn't matter if he's a doctor or not.

Hell, I hope he is and the hospital brings a lawsuit on UA's ass too with the families effected. Fuck their shit up. Make this a standard and maybe their policies will change about overbooking. Should we take another few million dollars in loss? Or maybe not book anymore seats than we have?

 

[Malvolio]

Has anyone confirmed that he is actually a doctor?

It's very easy for these stories to gather momentum without all the facts being in place. Until they are, it's hard to know how bad this is going to be either for the man who was dragged off the plane or the airline.

If it's proved he's a doctor and had appointments it's going to get worse, moreso if he's something like an oncologist or paediatrician.

It's irrelevant. He is a paying customer. I hate that it's continually brought up. Every single passenger on that plane had the same right to remain on board as he did.

 

[Lord Fagan]

The crux of the problem is the $800.

My read as well.

 

[Audioboxer]

What "computer" exactly. Having a random passenger selector would have to already exist.I would need to see some proof that that actually existed.

The alternative you're speculating on is the airline targeting minorities based on eyes in the cabin going and finding them? Really? Out of all the shit that's happened here that is really what some of you are trying to throw into the mix?

There are computers all over an aircraft. Not to mention "managers", being anyone in a position of power, probably carrying PDAs/phones or some sort of electronic device. All software on and off the plane will have confirmation of every flight pass and seat number which is occupied.

Direct outrage for reasons based in reality, not speculative identity politics. Sure it makes a great story if you can say the airline are racists, but the random selection has obviously occurred here. The issue for the airline is the way they forcefully ejected this passenger without further compromise, or in the first instance going to a higher tier of "reward" for the whole plane. Which is what I said should have been done earlier in this topic.

 

[platocplx]

You've got the perfect name to be having this argument.

the irony of their name and how they are arguing is incredible. There is nothing at all good about what united did and they should have never boarded the flight. That by far was the stupidest thing they did to help get to the point of having gestapo dragging a paying customer off a flight.

 

[Quotient]

No like, honestly, if I was this dude and I 100% needed to be back home in time for some really important shit I'd be legit confused if the police came and were like "we're sorry sir you have to leave" cause up to that point I'd done nothing wrong. Here I am just a normal paying customer and suddenly the airline is making up shit to get me kicked off a plane.

Oh my number was randomly chosen? Randomly chose someone else fuckos I got shit to do.

At that point nobody should be surprised that someone thought their rights as a citizen of the united states to not be physically assaulted by the police would trump the rights of United to arbitrarily kick you off their plane.

Of course, they'd be wrong, but nobody should be fucking surprised by this.

I don't think the passenger was confused why he asked to leave. Everyone on the plane had been informed of the situation.

To me there are 2 separate issues here. The first is United's inability to resolve the situation before having to involve the police, and the second is the police forcibly removing the passenger.

 

[bloodydrake]

It's irrelevant. He is a paying customer. I hate that it's continually brought up. Every single passenger on that plane had the same right to remain on board as he did.

Agreed its a straw man
and your right
Every single passenger has the same right to remain on board as he did...which ironically was no right whatsoever.

 

[charpunk]

I'm so confused how no one wanted to give up their seat for $800, a paid hotel for the night, and a guarantee flight for the next day. I would have called work and been all "flight delayed sorry".

Not making an excuse for what they did to this guy, I'm just mean the rest of the plane in general.

 

[marrec]

I don't think the passenger was confused why he asked to leave. Everyone on the plane had been informed of the situation.

To me there are 2 separate issues here. The first is United's inability to resolve the situation before having to involve the police, and the second is the police forcibly removing the passenger.

I'm not saying he was confused about why he was asked to leave, I'm saying he was likely confused about why the cops are physically assaulting him at the behest of United.

 

[SuperBowser]

It's irrelevant. He is a paying customer. I hate that it's continually brought up. Every single passenger on that plane had the same right to remain on board as he did.

Of course.
But it's particularly bad form to assault and drag a doctor that just wanted to see his patients with the ticket he legally paid for.

It doesn't take a genius (although some people in this thread make me wonder) to say the airline took the most idiotic course of action for this passenger.

 

[Socivol]

-United and most/all airlines feel that overbooking is the best way of maximizing profits for flights in order to ensure they are filled to maximum capacity
-Most of the time this isn't an issue
-Sometimes too many people actually show up and some people are asked to give up their seat and offered replacement flights
-Often times this isn't enough, so airlines offer incentives to help motivate people to give up their flight and feel better about the whole situation
-United capped this incentive at $800 <<< This is where United fucked up
<<Here is where they continued to fuck up>>
-United didn't really have a plan for what happens if people don't volunteer for $800, so they did a lottery system where 4 lucky winners get to be kicked off the flight
-United didn't plan for the situation where someone would resist leaving the flight
-United smashed a guys face and dragged him off a flight by force after he paid for his ticket, sat down, and did nothing wrong (other than refusing $800).

The crux of the problem is the $800. They should have properly planned for when $800 isn't enough (and in 2017, $800 really isn't that much). They should increase it to $1,200 or $1,600 etc, and that should be in their budget. Like I said, if they are benefiting from overbooking, their cost benefit analysis should include the PROPER cost of having to buy someone out of their seat. They can't rely on breaking peoples faces if they don't comply.

Yeah if it's capped at $800 that's the miss. I got $900 on Delta once and I know they got up to $1200. The way to solve this is really to just uncap it because at some point someone will want the money over flying. I got pissed once when Delta was offering $1200 and they only needed 1 seat and i was the 2nd on the list to fly standby

 

[Malvolio]

Agreed its a straw man
and your right
Every single passenger has the same right to remain on board as he did...which ironically was no right whatsoever.

Cool, so beat 'em all until the plane is empty and load it up with employees.

 

[Neverforget]

You said it was their fault for overbooking. I'm explaining that overbooking is a calculated risk they take. If their risk fails, they should implement Y2Kev's solution (or not kick passengers off of the plane if they are already seated).

So like you said it's a calculated risk they take? Which means it's their fault for taking that risk? So what is there to explain?!

The explanation is unnecessary for me, it doesn't matter to me how or why they did it, the only thing that matters is that passenger being mistreated unfairly and how it should not be an acceptable solution to this kind of situation.

 

[Machina]

As an aside, corporate apologists won't ever command much respect from me.

 

[Quotient]

I'm not saying he was confused about why he was asked to leave, I'm saying he was likely confused about why the cops are physically assaulting him at the behest of United.

I just assume that he was informed that he needed to be removed and i assume his refusal to leave resulted in united calling the police. The article mentions that another couple were asked to leave before him and they compiled.

 

[Malvolio]

Of course.
But it's particularly bad form to assault and drag a doctor that just wanted to see his patients with the ticket he legally paid for.

It really isn't. It's particularly bad form to beat one of your customers regardless of their profession or destination.

 

[bloodydrake]

Cool, so beat 'em all until the plane is empty and load it up with employees.

watch the video again. no one was beaten.
he was resisting so they pulled harder, when he lost his grip on his chair, the force of them pulling caused him to hit the chair arm opposite him. thats it..then they dragged him out.

 

[ironcreed]

Agreed its a straw man
and your right
Every single passenger has the same right to remain on board as he did...which ironically was no right whatsoever.

You must work for the airline industry.

 

[Violence Jack]

I'm reading this sitting in the airport waiting for my United flight. I swore I would never fly with them again after a bad experience like 7-8 years ago. Damn company won't let me fly with any other airline.

Southwest and Delta continue to be the only domestic carrier worth a damn.

 

[marrec]

You must work for the airline industry.

Nah man, dude just has a burning need to be technically correct as if that instills morality.

 

[Zok310]

Poor guy. Think they just made him a rich man.

 

[Sylas]

They offered the $800 to everyone, no one volunteered to take it.

Again, just pick someone else. I daresay most people wouldn't be terribly obstinant if told that they have to be removed but they'll also get $800 for the trouble. Most people want to get to their destination and won't willingly volunteer themselves, but most people would also just grumble and take $800 and leave compliantly.

Unless they stopped offering any money when they got to forcing some people to leave.

 

[Sheiter]

People talking about the $800 should keep in mine these are typically vouchers for the airline and not, like, just cash that they give out. I'm not surprised people don't jump at the chance to take them, especially if they have important appointments or reservations that they are flying to.

 

[Belker]

It's irrelevant. He is a paying customer. I hate that it's continually brought up. Every single passenger on that plane had the same right to remain on board as he did.

It might not be relevant in a legal sense - where everyone on the plane presumably had the same rights - but it's absolutely important in a narrative one, especially if his lawyers are able to bring that to bear if he goes to court.

There's quite a difference for United to handle the fallout of one man being mistreated, versus handling the fallout of mistreating a doctor and, even worse, a doctor who has patients to whom the public are especially sympathetic.

That's why I mentioned paediatrics and oncology. I would be very surprised if the lawyers and PR people at United weren't having similar discussions right now in terms of damage limitation.

 

[badcrumble]

I do obviously. Which is why I posted my fucking opinion. Again: UA could've handled this better, but they do have a right to kick you off their flights, a right which I support them having, so dude should've cooperated.

They're insanely heavily subsidized by taxpayers. I don't support them having that right at all.

 

[Malvolio]

watch the video again. no one was beaten.
he was resisting so they pulled harder, when he lost his grip on his chair, the force of them pulling caused him to hit the chair arm opposite him. thats it..then they dragged him out.

Because the beating was an accident doesn't make it not a beating. Peaceful protests that end in violence are always the fault of the ones that introduce the violence.

 

[SystemBug]

why are people even defending this in here?

 

[ironcreed]

I'm so confused how no one wanted to give up their seat for $800, a paid hotel for the night, and a guarantee flight for the next day. I would have called work and been all "flight delayed sorry".

Not making an excuse for what they did to this guy, I'm just mean the rest of the plane in general.

People have lives, places to go and people to see. I can understand why they would just want to get on with their day and get where they need to go rather than be bribed to give up their seat due to the airline's own fuck up.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I'm so confused how no one wanted to give up their seat for $800, a paid hotel for the night, and a guarantee flight for the next day. I would have called work and been all "flight delayed sorry".

Not making an excuse for what they did to this guy, I'm just mean the rest of the plane in general.

First, you understand it was an $800 travel voucher, right? Not cold hard cash. But you would have had to fly on United again, and likely within a specific window of time before the voucher expires (probably a year).

Second, the average Gaffer is not the average airline passenger. Some people have kids, careers (i.e. not flexible jobs), or other commitments. I mean, plenty of Gaffers routinely talk about taking several days or a week off work just because a new video game is released. I assure you, that is not normal in regular society.

 

[rykomatsu]

The crux of the problem is the $800. They should have properly planned for when $800 isn't enough (and in 2017, $800 really isn't that much). They should increase it to $1,200 or $1,600 etc, and that should be in their budget. Like I said, if they are benefiting from overbooking, their cost benefit analysis should include the PROPER cost of having to buy someone out of their seat. They can't rely on breaking peoples faces if they don't comply.

They do have a plan. It's called Code of Federal Regulations. For a domestic flight arriving more than 2hr later than originally scheduled, when you are involuntarily denied boarding, you are entitled to 400% of your 1-way fare up to $1300 in compensation. This is law.

Further, in most cases, airlines will provide accommodations and class upgrade as well if you're not being a dick.

 

[Aselith]

why are people even defending this in here?

Because everything needs a defender and Gaf always has someone to take the case!

 

[SuperBowser]

It really isn't. It's particularly bad form to beat one of your customers regardless of their profession or destination.

In principle, yes. But if an airline beating up a doctor that wants to see patients doesn't make national headlines, nothing will.