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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat

Why do you fly United?

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L

Linkstrikesback

Member
k5xZVx.gif
 
Clerical Error

Clerical Error

Member
Menchi said:
Right you are. I agree overbooking is a shitty thing to do and it completely undermines customers for the sake of profit and maybe people aren't aware of the issue. That said, I don't think limiting businesses from making decisions, as long as they're not discriminatory, is the way. Let customers regulate that with their feedback, wallet and as seen here, backlash for shitty actions.
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Now, maybe you've modified your stance since your first post, but there wouldn't be any backlash if he'd done this:

Menchi said:
Crappy customer service but if you're asked to leave, just leave. Complain afterwards.
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If you're going to put it on customers to regulate and push back on corporate idiocy, like I said before, what the doctor did isn't a problem--the problem is that more people aren't doing what he did.
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
bootsthecat said:
If this was the case, someone would have offered to get off in his place, which of course did not occur. C'mon.
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Because United Airlines was in the fucking wrong? If they needed their employees in another location so desperately, send them on another airline instead of offering $800 as a apology to the people who didn't volunteer and they tried to kick off. Especially a doctor who has patients he needs to see.

Why should anyone have to offer up their seats they paid money for? Just because an airline "offers" a payment as compensation does not mean you have to take it. Thats why they asked for volunteers and then got physical with an RNG choice person who did not want to take the measly $800 when his time is more important.
 
J

jmizzal

Member
Impotaku said:
Absolutely.

There is no excuse to overbook it's just pure corporate greed, if a passenger doesn't turn up for their booked seat on a flight they don't magically get refunded. They lose their ticket money so the airline already has the ticket holders money.
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This, its total greed

Even if you get a refund its from a 3rd party insurance company not the airline

So they are never even losing money
 
bloodydrake

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
Gotchaye said:
I'm not really clear on what you think he's responsible for, and in what sense.
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he's partially responsible for what happened after he refused to leave even under the threat of physical removal from the police.

Gotchaye said:
First, it's worth looking at how this all worked out. He was eventually let back onto the plane, and it's not clear if he would have been allowed on the flight if he had gotten off when asked. It seems unlikely. I don't have a great idea of how this is going to unfold legally but you've got to figure that he's likely to get a big settlement. And of course United comes out of this looking awful. So I find it pretty plausible that he made a reasonable and rational choice - this was quite possibly the best outcome he could have hoped for given his options.
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I believe someone gave up their seat so he could get back on the flight. I agree it looks horrible for UNITED from a PR perspective and I'm sure he can get a large settlement but I doubt it would be due to any legal precedent it would be hush money

Gotchaye said:
And I'm not sure what the argument is that he's partly to blame for this. I've seen you say that the airline has a (legal) right to kick him off, but of course that doesn't get you to moral blame. You've expressed the sentiment that it would be bad if everyone acted like this so that United had to change its policy, but... why? You've also seemed to grant that United's policy is bad and should be changed, so this seems like a clear win. Why is he a bad example for the children? Concretely.
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He's partially to blame for the physical act of him being removed because he refused to leave unless he was physically removed.. he forced that confrontation.

I think it would be bad if anyone and everyone on a plane took the attitude" I don't have to listen to you and your directives unless I want to." Its an insane position to take..to try and massage it down to well ,"only ignore the commands that I don't like but I'll listen to the ones I do like"..no ..just no.
IF they say turn off your iPad and stow it till the cabin says you can use it, its an order not a discussion, if you refuse they will stop the take off and kick you off the flight and rightly so. Do what your told on a plane by the crew. To me this falls under the same thing..object, state your case,but when they've made their decision you must comply.


Gotchaye said:
Ultimately I really have no idea who you think this guy has wrongfully harmed, if it's not United who you claim to not be defending, because at every step you seem to be granting that everyone except United probably comes out of this a winner unless we do what you want and try to shield United from moral and legal blame as a result of this.
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I don't think he harmed anyone else..i think he's partially to blame for the fact he got harmed resisting the officers.I think he obviously wasn't concerned for anyone else's urgancy other then his own. I'm not defending United for creating this shit show of a situation , just their right to have passengers removed when its deemed necessary within their legal operating procedures.



Gotchaye said:
This analogy doesn't help. The reasonableness of the request that the person leave and the value of the compensation offered are absolutely central to how justified refusing to leave is. Most people would be pretty happy to have shown up to a restaurant and then told to go eat elsewhere tonight but here's a voucher for three free meals later. You can't ignore that it is immediately obvious to everyone else that United could have just tried offering more compensation until someone bit. Maybe there is an amount of compensation where if nobody's taking it you can say that United can't reasonably be expected to offer more and is justified in resorting to kicking people off by lottery, but surely this is well above $800.
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Well they offered everyone a free night at a hotel and 800 bucks and no one bit. I agree it would be better if they offered more till someone did agree,but in that situation I"m not sure anyone was authorized to offer more and they needed to resolve the issue.




Gotchaye said:
Also you're still really unclear on exactly what it means that it's "on you" that security got called.
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He was told he had to leave and that if he didn't security would escort him off the plane.
Its on him that he chose to say I don't care you'll have to physically remove me.. so they did.
 
B

bootsthecat

Banned
Gotchaye said:
This doesn't follow at all.
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How so? I replied to someone positing that the passengers were likely unanimously supporting the passenger. Someone could have inconvenienced themselves to allow the guy to stay on the plane, and the bulk of the passengers would have been on their way. As someone who flies regularly, this is pretty much never the case; it's selfishness to the extreme on airplanes.
 
O

old manatee

Banned
GhostBed said:
I feel a lot of folks are missing the fact that this man was a doctor who was on that flight so he could treat patients the next day.

It's not like he was visiting friends or family on holiday and was slightly inconvenienced. He had people to help/save, that is a damn valid reason to resist being one of the random passengers to be forcefully removed from the flight due to the airlines own mistake.
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Yeah, it's crazy that United Airlines' solution to the problem that they create with their shit business model is to pick a random person on the plane and physically assault them in front of the other passengers. They could be assaulting someone important.

This time it was a doctor who had patients to see. Next time it could be a grade-school teacher, or even Jessica Alba who has famously been observed flying coach.

My solution is simple: force the passengers to provide their resume and a detailed schedule for the day after the flight. That way United could narrow it down to someone who is doing something trivial like opening up a GameStop in the morning. Somebody without a college degree who won't be missed. No children, for now.

Then United Airlines should fire a tear gas canister into the plane to ensure that they have full control over the other passengers, so that no one gets hurt of course. Then they can efficiently drag the chosen volunteer onto the tarmac and pelt it with less-lethal rubber bullets until it submits to a refund.
 
E

Ernest

Banned
What a PR nightmare (deservedly), much worse than even Pepsi's boneheaded ad.

A few people are gonna get fired hard for this. Can't wait for heads to roll - companies should not behave like this. Welcome to Trump's America, I suppose...
 
N

Netherscourge

Banned
The airline probably lied to the cops and told them there was a crazy passenger threatening something.

So, naturally, the police who are terrible to begin with and never bother to actually assess any situation, just assume he's a crazy wannabe-terrorist or some shit and just go all fucking Chuck Norris on him.

I hope he sues the holy fuck out of that airline AND the Police Department.
 
F

FinaruDensetsu

Member
Emerson said:
Trump is a reactionary who would probably see this video and be outraged like an average person, and would not take the time to think about whether it's a good idea before reacting publicly. It wouldn't be until later when his establishment politician advisers told him why supporting United is the right play that he would see it that way.
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Except his unfiltered reaction is not to feel sorry for a random Asian dude or to condemn big companies.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
bloodydrake said:
he's partially responsible for what happened after he refused to leave even under the threat of physical removal from the police.
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I can't believe you continue to argue it's his fault. Look at the footage and the photos. No. None of that was on him. They needed to find another way.

Remember kids! Always give into threats of physical violence! If you don't you're at fault. Discusting
 
L

le-seb

Member
I only experienced overbooking a single time, and offered compensation for taking the next flight (early next day) was:
1. Restaurant and hotel room paid for the night
2. Half of the ticket reimbursed
3. A free round trip ticket on any of their flights (covering whole Europe)

Since:
1. I had just moved in a new home with nothing more than a camp bed to sleep on and nothing to eat
2. Didn't pay this 1000 € ticket (my boss did)
3. Didn't know where to go for my next holidays

I volunteered... ;)


What I'm wondering, though, is why you'd let passengers embark while knowing there aren't enough seats available.
In my case, they asked for volunteers before embarking.
 
F

flkraven

Member
Guys, United is in the right here. They were just being nice by knocking him unconscious, because then he was technically luggage and could be dragged into the cargo hold. Win win.
 
W

Wind's Howling

Member
You say people can volunteer to give up their seat, raise the cash amount by 800$ and in the end you force someone out of their seat by brute force.

Way to go United. You fucked up and deserve the PR mess. The people who defend United their actions are just as bad.
 
J

Jangowuzhere

Banned
I don't see why him being a doctor matters? I feel like people are saying that this was morally wrong because he was a doctor flying to a job.

Even if this happended to some other random person, I would still be appalled. A person paid for a flight, they should not be forcibly removed for such a stupid ass reason. The customer should not get shit just because United fucked up.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
bootsthecat said:
How so? I replied to someone positing that the passengers were likely unanimously supporting the passenger. Someone could have inconvenienced themselves to allow the guy to stay on the plane, and the bulk of the passengers would have been on their way. As someone who flies regularly, this is pretty much never the case; it's selfishness to the extreme on airplanes.
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You can think that one of two parties in a conflict is in the right, and that the other party is solely to blame for the incidental harm done to you by the conflict, without thereby being committed to intervening on behalf of one party at significant cost to yourself.

bloodydrake said:
He's partially to blame for the physical act of him being removed because he refused to leave unless he was physically removed.. he forced that confrontation.

I think it would be bad if anyone and everyone on a plane took the attitude" I don't have to listen to you and your directives unless I want to." Its an insane position to take..to try and massage it down to well ,"only ignore the commands that I don't like but I'll listen to the ones I do like"..no ..just no.
IF they say turn off your iPad and stow it till the cabin says you can use it, its an order not a discussion, if you refuse they will stop the take off and kick you off the flight and rightly so. Do what your told on a plane by the crew. To me this falls under the same thing..object, state your case,but when they've made their decision you must comply.
Click to expand...

Okay. I think "blame" is kind of a weird word here because obviously it's not like he actually wronged himself. I think everyone can agree that he could have made different choices and not gotten hurt. And other people are saying that he had no responsibility to act differently. It is not clear to me if you think he had a responsibility to act differently given that you're not claiming that he wronged anybody and only hurt himself.

Absolutely it would be bad if people refused to do anything they're asked to do on a plane. That is of course not what happened here. The guy refused to do a particular thing that would have cost him quite a bit, when the airline had no good reason to make the demand. Like with your restaurant analogy, the reasonableness of the request is absolutely key to how people are thinking about this.
 
S

Socivol

Member
Crimsonlink said:
Because United Airlines was in the fucking wrong? If they needed their employees in another location so desperately, send them on another airline instead of offering $800 as a apology to the people who didn't volunteer and they tried to kick off. Especially a doctor who has patients he needs to see.

Why should anyone have to offer up their seats they paid money for? Just because an airline "offers" a payment as compensation does not mean you have to take it. Thats why they asked for volunteers and then got physical with an RNG choice person who did not want to take the measly $800 when his time is more important.
Click to expand...

This. Why didn't they put that employee on another airline? If they HAD to be there Louisville from Chicago is also driveable. It's only a 4 1/2 - 5 hour drive so if they needed to be there so desperately I don't understand why they didn't just get their employees a rental.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Remember everyone, next time someone threatens you with physical violence it's your responsibility to give in as a good upstanding citizen! Not giving in to threats of physical violence will make you responsible for any harm you suffer! It's the American way (!?!?!) (I don't know, what the fuck is even happening anymore)
 
F

FinaruDensetsu

Member
Jangowuzhere said:
I don't see why him being a doctor matters? I feel like people are saying that this was morally wrong because he was a doctor flying to a job.

Even if this happended to some other random person, I would still be appalled. A person paid for a flight, they should not be forcibly removed for such a stupid ass reason. The customer should not get shit just because United fucked up.
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No. This is bad full stop. It just looks even worse because we know he's a doctor with patients waiting in the morning. Had a hypothetical second person been chosen who also had somewhere to be at a specified time it would have been worse too.
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
FinaruDensetsu said:
Well you and I have very differing opinions on the kind of man Trump is.
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That's cool.

The kind of man I think Trump is, is a fucking idiot who has little to no actual opinions of his own. He's a reactionary who has no greater philosophy of the world and does not have the mental capacity to consider anything besides the one thing literally sitting in front of his stupid, flabby face. He is, for this reason, very easily manipulated by the kind of men you seem to think he is: establishment, corporate-friendly, conservative politicians.
 
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