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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat

Why do you fly United?

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V

Vincent Alexander

Member
Megasoum said:
(via twitter)

C9F1r0kV0AEQQlI.jpg:large
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No way this is real. Ok, never mind. This already answered.
 
M

Mik2121

Member
While I'm not a fan of suing everybody for everything, this is one of the very few exceptions where I would try to sue the fuck out of this company. Being carried away while bleeding even though all I did was sit in the seat I purchased? Fuck no...
 
depths20XX

depths20XX

Member
newtypepilot said:
lol wut?
-$1000? all I've read is that they offered up to $800.

I love how he said "especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did". He's your fucking customer that was already seated. That's why.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You're surprised that your customer was upset when he was reneged on something and then removed by force? You are the ones that fucked up. You don't then penalize your customer for that.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
Audioboxer said:
The one thing that annoys me in here. Talking about law and what can or can't be done is not defending the airline. It's quite clear many posters in here myself included have been thrust into a debate about law, regulations and what airlines can and can't do outside of a bubble of just going "fuck United Airlines". Nothing wrong with those posts but also nothing wrong with posters having debates in the aftermath of this going viral and doing our best to research and bring up evidence. Many journalists are doing this to as so many people are talking about something they knew very little of until now, bumping.
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The law? We aren't in the 70's when Airlines feared the god that was the FAA.

They follow the law by doing the absolutely minimum required. Their army of lawyers ensure whatever unethical thing they do is within the law.

You are discussing the law, sure, but your flaw is believing the airline follows it, when in fact they hide wherever rights you may still have after you've sold your soul to them while you fly on their planes.
 
O

Octavia

Unconfirmed Member
Mik2121 said:
While I'm not a fan of suing everybody for everything, this is one of the very few exceptions where I would try to sue the fuck out of this company. Being carried away while bleeding even though all I did was sit in the seat I purchased? Fuck no...
Click to expand...

Easy money if you pony up and get a good lawyer. Absolutely something worth a lawsuit, and not just to get paid.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
NeOak said:
The law? We aren't in the 70's when Airlines feared the god that was the FAA.

They follow the law by doing the absolutely minimum required. Their army of lawyers ensure whatever unethical thing they do is within the law.

You are discussing the law, sure, but your flaw is believing the airline follows it, when in fact they hide wherever rights you may still have after you've sold your soul to them while you fly on their planes.
Click to expand...

There is worth in discussing the realities of the tickets we buy, otherwise what, just never fly again? As much as all the other airlines are getting free PR out of this, it remains to be a valid question if all of them can too both voluntarily and involuntarily bump in the cabin.

I'm pretty certain no airline is ever going to use force like this again, because there probably is a lawsuit in wait here for excessive force. However, that doesn't answer if an airline can cock up like this again with staff boarding and then legally be able to ask for volunteers, and then move onto mandatory random selection.
 
U

UFO

Banned
siddx said:
It's less than a five hour drive from chicago to Louisville, if you are so poorly organized as a company you can't get your employees to Louisville via plane, stick your employees in a fucking rental car or van and drive them there. But don't kick off your paid customers because of your shitty fucking planning.
Click to expand...

And we're talking about a huge huge company. It's going to cost them millions in lost revenue, lawyers, lawsuits, and PR. Because you couldn't shell out an extra $1000 to get someone to volunteer? What a joke.
 
Z

Zaraki_Kenpachi

Member
Audioboxer said:
The one thing that annoys me in here. Talking about law and what can or can't be done is not defending the airline. It's quite clear many posters in here myself included have been thrust into a debate about law, regulations and what airlines can and can't do outside of a bubble of just going "fuck United Airlines". Nothing wrong with those posts but also nothing wrong with posters having debates in the aftermath of this going viral and doing our best to research and bring up evidence. Many journalists are doing this too as so many people are talking about something they knew very little of until now, bumping.

All of this exists for every airline, so what is and isn't true for United is the same for them all. United's disgrace is how they handled this situation outside of the law debates. However, that doesn't mean posters aren't interested in knowing if what they did is actually legal (unfortunately yes, even the force bit).

Either we don't want this ever happening again, or if it can happen again people sure as hell need to know in advance what they can and can't do.
Click to expand...
For god's sake, your not some martyr. You have been posting bullshit, not legal precedents. So much so in fact that even mods have called you out on your bullshit throughout the thread. Stop acting like you were having some groundbreaking legal discussion.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Audioboxer said:
True, but within law it states cash on the spot is the requirement.

Also I dug up another take on the in cabin debate






https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/your-rights-on-involuntary-bumps/



Aviation law covers you legally for a minimum payout if you're forced to travel on another flight. I think the only way they can say no compensation is if it's under 2 hours you need to wait for another flight.

Edit: It's 1 hour, not 2
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Right, the email isn't talking about offering anyone cash at all. It's trying to make it sound like something happened that never did. He was never offered any money at any point. The email references something else completely
 
M

mbpm1

Member
I guess next time untied calls for people to get off, they won't have to smash someone against a seat. the threat of it will be made clear already.

business is just a step away from a mob racket.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
For god's sake, your not some martyr. You have been posting bullshit, not legal precedents. So much so in fact that even mods have called you out on your bullshit throughout the thread. Stop acting like you were having some groundbreaking legal discussion.
Click to expand...

There's an ignore button.

guybrushfreeman said:
Right, the email isn't talking about offering anyone cash at all. It's trying to make it sound like something happened that never did. He was never offered any money at any point. The email references something else completely
Click to expand...

It's offered once you come off the plane. It shouldn't be hard to find out what the other 3 passengers were given? Have any journalists or stations interviewed them yet?
 
depths20XX

depths20XX

Member
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
For god's sake, your not some martyr. You have been posting bullshit, not legal precedents. So much so in fact that even mods have called you out on your bullshit throughout the thread. Stop acting like you were having some groundbreaking legal discussion.
Click to expand...

I don't even understand how you sift through his long winded posts to be honest. Dude needs some brevity.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Audioboxer said:
There's an ignore button.



It's offered once you come off the plane. It shouldn't be hard to find out what the other 3 passengers were given? Have any journalists or stations interviewed them yet?
Click to expand...

That's not an 'offer' that's compensation for forced removal. I'm sure people will receive it as they are supposed to but the email is trying to make it sound like they 'offered' him money to leave which did not happen. He was forced to leave against his will and then later would be entitled to 'up to $1000' for the inconvenience

'Offers' don't include the use of physical force if you say no
 
V

vasametropolis

Member
I'd run this out in court the rest of my life to destroy the airline if I had to. The case cannot be lost.

Demand anyone involved in the assault gets fired and jail time and sue for the entire valuation of the company. Too much? Fuck you, pay me. In an odd way I'm jealous of the guy. Not every day you get to bury an entire company.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
Audioboxer said:
There is worth in discussing the realities of the tickets we buy, otherwise what, just never fly again? As much as all the other airlines are getting free PR out of this, it remains to be a valid question if all of them can too both voluntarily and involuntarily bump in the cabin.

I'm pretty certain no airline is ever going to use force like this again, because there probably is a lawsuit in wait here for excessive force. However, that doesn't answer if an airline can cock up like this again with staff boarding and then legally be able to ask for volunteers, and then move onto mandatory random selection.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the run around with "valid questions". The point of this thread was that this is unethical. But sure, keep going in circles using "the law" to defend the airline for their unethical behavior. Aggression is unlawful, and the United agent that handled this situation is a moron.

Don't forget to cash the PR checks.
 
M

Mortemis

Banned
The fucking CEO is doubling down. Damn.

This is blowing up way more than anything like this I've seen. Dude better have a resignation letter pre-written for the future, if all this really hampers United (and hopefully it does).
 
M

mbpm1

Member
NeOak said:
Ah yes, the run around with "valid questions". The point of this thread was that this is unethical. But sure, keep going in circles using "the law" to defend the airline for their unethical behavior.

Don't forget to cash the PR checks.
Click to expand...

He gets 800 from UA
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
guybrushfreeman said:
That's not an 'offer' that's compensation for forced removal. I'm sure people will receive it as they are supposed to but the email is trying to make it sound like they 'offered' him money to leave which did not happen. He was forced to leave against his will and then later would be entitled to 'up to $1000' for the inconvenience

'Offers' don't include the use of physical force if you say no
Click to expand...

The rewards for involuntary bumping would have to be put forward to the cabin before random selection. I meant once you come off the plane that is when you're supposed to be paid cash and given a written copy of your rights around bumping. Or so that's what the guidelines say is a legal requirement.

It's suspect why he said up to $1000. The figure going around was $800. Instead of saying an exact amount why would you say "up to"?

Best I can find is

Passenger Audra D. Bridges posted the video on Facebook. Her husband, Tyler Bridges, said United offered $400 and then $800 vouchers and a hotel stay for volunteers to give up their seats. When no one volunteered, a United manager came on the plane and announced that passengers would be chosen at random.
Click to expand...

The flight was operated for United by Republic Airline, which United hires to fly United Express flights. Munoz said four Republic employees approached United's gate agents after the plane was fully loaded and said they needed to board. He said the airline asked for volunteers to give up their seats, and then moved to involuntary bumping, offering up to $1,000 in compensation.
Click to expand...

https://apnews.com/ae81a66dbc124acbad52e3cf8de9617d

So up to may mean we started at 400, then tried 800 voluntarily. Then no one accepted so it moved to involuntary at 1,000.

No disagreements on physical force.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
chadskin said:
Amazes me how badly their PR is handling this incident.

This is the CEO's email to his employees:
Click to expand...

It's amazing how he doesn't realize that paying customer don't give a fuck about his employees one whit. Especially not to the tune of dragging a paying customer off the plane using force.


Audioboxer said:
There is worth in discussing the realities of the tickets we buy, otherwise what, just never fly again? As much as all the other airlines are getting free PR out of this, it remains to be a valid question if all of them can too both voluntarily and involuntarily bump in the cabin.

I'm pretty certain no airline is ever going to use force like this again, because there probably is a lawsuit in wait here for excessive force. However, that doesn't answer if an airline can cock up like this again with staff boarding and then legally be able to ask for volunteers
Click to expand...

Yes.

Audioboxer said:
and then move onto mandatory random selection.
Click to expand...

No. The customers paid for a flight. They are not responsible for the logistics of your airlines. Either book your employees ahead of time or find a different solution.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Audioboxer said:
The rewards for involuntary bumping would have to be put forward to the cabin before random selection. I meant once you come off the plane that is when you're supposed to be paid cash and given a written copy of your rights around bumping. Or so that's what the guidelines say is a legal requirement.

It's suspect why he said up to $1000. The figure going around was $800. Instead of saying an exact amount why would you say "up to"?

Best I can find is





https://apnews.com/ae81a66dbc124acbad52e3cf8de9617d

So up to may mean we started at 400, then tried 800 voluntarily. Then no one accepted so it moved to involuntary at 1,000.

No disagreements on physical force.
Click to expand...

The point is the email says 'offered' but that doesn't match with 'involuntary'. It's trying to make it look like something happened that didn't. You can't 'offer' anything to someone you are removing by force. He was entitled to compensation but he was never 'offered' anything. It was not his choice, that's the whole point of involuntary. Once you move to involuntary there are no 'offers' involved anymore
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
guybrushfreeman said:
The point is the email says 'offered' but that doesn't match with 'involuntary'. It's trying to make it look like something happened that didn't. You can't 'offer' anything to someone you are removing by force. He was entitled to compensation but he was never 'offered' anything. It was not his choice, that's the whole point of involuntary
Click to expand...

Ah okay yeah I get you. The only "offer" was 800 and a hotel.

MHWilliams said:
It's amazing how he doesn't realize that paying customer don't give a fuck about his employees one whit. Especially not to the tune of dragging a paying customer off the plane using force.




Yes.



No. The customers paid for a flight. They are not responsible for the logistics of your airlines. Either book your employees ahead of time or find a different solution.
Click to expand...

I accept that is the opinion of the majority of the thread, but I still think it'll be interesting to have it clarified how that holds up legally. A few posters a page or two back claimed boarding meant once the doors close and it is a fact just now involuntary bumping can and has been forced pre getting on the plane. It's rare but it can happen.

The debate is do things change for you legally once you're in a seat, from the point of view of the airline not being able to carry out bumping like they can for what the majority in here class as pre-boarding (gate).
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
When the CEO says shit like it became "necessary" to sic the police on one of their customers you know he don't have a fucking clue.

None of this was necessary. You fucked up and now you have to own it.
 
N

norm9

Member
That southwest thing can't be real. It's in real bad taste. Funny for a twitter conedian, but bad as a corporation I feel.
 
V

vasametropolis

Member
Could the victim classify this as an act of terror? Genuinely curious. Send em to gitmo to eat the cockmeat sandwich.

Edit: Read a brief synopsis on the classification in the US. No legal pro, but to a layman it checks out.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
vasametropolis said:
Could the victim classify this as an act of terror? Genuinely curious. Send em to gitmo to eat the cockmeat sandwich.

Edit: Read a brief synopsis on the classification in the US. No legal pro, but to a layman it checks out.
Click to expand...

After 9/11, if the flight attendant doesn't like you and "reports" you, you are a terrorist when you land.
 
M

Masterspeed

Member
Audioboxer said:
Ah okay yeah I get you. The only "offer" was 800 and a hotel.
Click to expand...

If the "offer" is on the table, then why wasn't the "offer" used on the Employee? They could of waited for another flight instead of this.

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to defend this. This is on the news for being as fucked up as it is and you're defending it? This is the type of stuff that shouldn't be allowed to be forced upon citizens anywhere on any plane or transport system.

This stuff wouldn't be allowed on a public Bus, Train or even Taxi.

If someone has paid for their right to travel, then they shouldn't be physically abused if they're just sitting in the seat they paid for.
 
C

ColdPizza

Banned
Audioboxer said:
The rewards for involuntary bumping would have to be put forward to the cabin before random selection. I meant once you come off the plane that is when you're supposed to be paid cash and given a written copy of your rights around bumping. Or so that's what the guidelines say is a legal requirement.

It's suspect why he said up to $1000. The figure going around was $800. Instead of saying an exact amount why would you say "up to"?

Best I can find is





https://apnews.com/ae81a66dbc124acbad52e3cf8de9617d

So up to may mean we started at 400, then tried 800 voluntarily. Then no one accepted so it moved to involuntary at 1,000.

No disagreements on physical force.
Click to expand...

Interesting. If the passenger is delayed more than 3 or 4 hours they can be compensated up to 400% or max $1300. I still don't know the specifics of the flight. Were they offering him a flight home the next day? If so, they should have offered 400% the cost of the one way fare.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
vasametropolis said:
Well if you don't know the answer, then don't answer. I'm just looking for creative ways he could ruin their lives. It's what I would do.
Click to expand...

You don't even know the answer to your own question FFS

Definition of
act of terrorism
n the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

Please tell me how is this political, religious or ideological? This was a business decision.
 
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