Rawbutt Jellybean
Member
I'll worry about the slippery slope when we get to it.
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UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson assassinated
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
As things go currently, the laws will never change. Those in power will stay in power because the voters will vote for who they already like and for their party of choice, even if the other party has candidates that will help them.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
In life, there's lots of of low brow people. Often emotional, pretty dumb, usually has a bad job/financial situation, and usually young or perhaps middle aged tops (you dont see too many 50+ years olds doing really dumb shit getting their mugshot on TV).
It's just one of those things everyone has to to live with because these kinds of people are always around, and unless every citizen on Earth was handcuffed to a cop so they could be watched over 24/7 you'll get dumb shit.
A lot of this kind of dumb shit can be solved by good culture alone. A lot of wacky shit is a USA problem (ie. tons of crime and gun violence no other country seems to have even though the US on paper has tons of money and good industry).
Put it this way. If anyone asked you, me or anyone else there was a CEO shooting murder or a school shooting event, and people had to guess which country would this story likely come from the most? I bet most people would say USA right away.
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The sad part is there's more outrage and shock over this compared to a usual school shooting.
rm082e
Member
From who? I haven't seen any outrage over this case. All the social media posts, memes, and discussion is focused on the moral acrobatics we're all trying to navigate while talking about it. That or people are unapologetically cheering.
What's been shocking is how many people are looking at this shooter in a sympathetic way. This guy is quickly becoming a Robin Hood type figure. I can't think of a single school or mass shooter who got that kind of reputation.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
The rule of law needs to be maintained, and that means vigilante justice / murder can't be condoned.
But that said, the rich and priviledged need to understand they play a vital role in maintaining the rule of law. They can only squeeze and exploit the underclassed so much before civil unrest starts to occur, and that is when you start to see stuff like this.
Its in their best interests to treat their employees and customers ethically, but dont because they are too greedy for short term profits.
But that said, the rich and priviledged need to understand they play a vital role in maintaining the rule of law. They can only squeeze and exploit the underclassed so much before civil unrest starts to occur, and that is when you start to see stuff like this.
Its in their best interests to treat their employees and customers ethically, but dont because they are too greedy for short term profits.
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein.bsky.social)
United CEO Andrew Witty gave an address to the company today (leaked to me), telling employees "we guard against...unnecessary care" and that "There are very few people in the history of the U. S. healthcare industry who had a bigger positive effect on American healthcare than Brian [Thompson]."
bsky.app
guard against unecessary care lol
And the truth is, it was a paid assassin who prob shot him over the DOJ insider trading investigation, not some hero vigilante.
It's not like there isnt any truth to that. Without insurance, doctors could suggest also sorts remedies, surgeries and medications for you to pay, unless you go for second opinion or look stuff up yourself.Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein.bsky.social)
United CEO Andrew Witty gave an address to the company today (leaked to me), telling employees "we guard against...unnecessary care" and that "There are very few people in the history of the U. S. healthcare industry who had a bigger positive effect on American healthcare than Brian [Thompson]."
guard against unecessary care lol
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Killing of insurance CEO exposes simmering anger at US health system
Long-standing frustrations were revealed online after a health insurance executive was shot and killed in New York City.
www.bbc.co.uk
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Without insurance (car, home, medical etc...), good luck to anyone caught in a bad situation and you need to pay out of pocket for everything. Most people cant unless they're a rich guy. If someone hates fees, then dont pay, save money and pray you never get into an accident, your home floods or burns down and you never get sick.
It's an industry set up because the avg person knows if shit hits the fan they cant pay or would drag it through the mud in court not wanting to pay (like a car accident where someone fucked up and would say Fuck You take me to court). So kind of like getting taxed where people pay for it, most people dont or barely use it, but the vast majority of proceeds go to the ones who actually get into a bad situation.
If you think of it, it's an industry created because most people faced with fees would be deadbeats. So it relies on the greater pool of money inflows hoping it covers the users (money outflow).
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Cyberpunkd
Member
If there were only a few examples with a more equal healthcare system that nevertheless didn’t result in imaginary system abuse you imagine…
Some people in this thread are going through some incredible mental gymnastics. What’s next - imperial system being superior to metric?
Zathalus
Member
The last time the minimum wage was increased in America was 15 years ago and apparently everything is on track for the first trillionaire to appear. The healthcare situation is just another contributing factor in how people are getting screwed over. Seems like something might need to change or otherwise society might follow the path that happens when such staggering wealth inequality and an increasing frustrated underclass is present.
GnomeChimpsky
Member
The timeline of this seems fishy. The shooting happens at 6.45 but the killer only arrives in Manhattan at 6.15, he then goes to wait at a Starbucks. At 6.30 he's seen walking towards the hotel talking on the phone. The CEO for some reason exits the hotel and starts walking along the street. The killer immediately steps out from behind a car and starts shooting.
Sounds to me like he is either the luckiest guy alive or the CEO was lured onto the street by an accomplice who was in contact with the killer.
Also, the guy wasn't some super assassin, he made numerous mistakes.
Sounds to me like he is either the luckiest guy alive or the CEO was lured onto the street by an accomplice who was in contact with the killer.
Also, the guy wasn't some super assassin, he made numerous mistakes.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Extremists look for any way to justify violence, especially by reframing disparate situations. “Silence is violence, so anyone not speaking out deserves harm.” “Health insurance is murderous, so murder the health insurance providers.”
No, shooting someone in the back with a silenced pistol repeatedly until they die is murder. Health insurance is health insurance. Bad health insurance can cause people financial strain and denial of coverage, which is absolutely a serious concern for those affected. All countries with universal health coverage delay and deny care too, so it’s a matter of degrees.
The founders were opposing the tyranny of monarchy and sought self-determination to establish a modern republic, as admirers of classical antiquity. They codified rule of law and civil liberties. Many of them were lawyers. They weren’t psychos who got off on murder.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
It is if it means you die.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Very difficult to know what the standard is, I've never had anyone murdered, but if you were wanting to, how would you check the reviews.
Based on my dealings with tradesmen, I can say this guy seemed to turn up on time, got the job done efficiently and didn't outstay his welcome. That's better than the painters I booked last summer.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Thompson was a mass social murderer.
Americans used to drag factory owners out into the streets and beat them to death for their abuses during the First Gilded Age. It shouldn't be a surprise that it starts happening again during the current Second Gilded Age.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Not in this country. America loves a vigilante, it's built into our culture, a trope of fiction since Westerns. The idea of a righteous outlaw stopping the powerful baddie that the law is too craven or corrupt to take down -- that's a hero story as American as apple pie.
I'm not defending that, but you're being naive if you think that sentiment isn't in the culture.
Yeah, this is all true, and I don't think anyone wants a world where this is how we handle our problems with billionaires. But there ARE some problems with billionaires and we should find a better way to handle them.
I don't think it's good this guy got shot but I do think it's good that we're all talking about the failures of our healthcare system.
crazepharmacist
Member
How many people criticizing this man own UNH stock? I’d wager 90+% of them as it’s an SPX company and they likely all own it in their 401k’s.
Instead of saying this husband, son and father of children deserved to die, maybe they should be criticizing the system that encourages profit over human lives.
This man was just doing his job and trying to make money for the companies shareholders, the very people who are saying he deserved to die.
Fucking morons.
Instead of saying this husband, son and father of children deserved to die, maybe they should be criticizing the system that encourages profit over human lives.
This man was just doing his job and trying to make money for the companies shareholders, the very people who are saying he deserved to die.
Fucking morons.
BlackTron
Member
According to your logic, shooting someone with a pistol and not acting when you see someone shot with a pistol are the same offense.
Guess what, that makes you cray cray.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
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Lunarorbit
Member
Just copying this from reddit.
United Healthcare is the 8th most profitable company ON EARTH. They're #8 on the Fortune Global 500.
Keep in mind that their product - Health Insurance - is basically a product only consumed in the US and they're extracting more profit from US than companies that sell consumer products globally.
Theres 8 billion people on earth. You run a horrible company making extreme profits. You actively destroy people's lives by canceling claims directly killing patients or devastating them financially.
The moral panic here is funny. This is the new wave of the future. Compassion and empathy have been voted out in America and then people are moralizing about some dickhead CEO?
Come off it gaf
United Healthcare is the 8th most profitable company ON EARTH. They're #8 on the Fortune Global 500.
Keep in mind that their product - Health Insurance - is basically a product only consumed in the US and they're extracting more profit from US than companies that sell consumer products globally.
Theres 8 billion people on earth. You run a horrible company making extreme profits. You actively destroy people's lives by canceling claims directly killing patients or devastating them financially.
The moral panic here is funny. This is the new wave of the future. Compassion and empathy have been voted out in America and then people are moralizing about some dickhead CEO?
Come off it gaf
Kraz
Member
It will be if those clutching their pearls are crush them into diamonds.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Yup. Logical end game to idolising CEO that permeates America.
The min wage statement is patently false as many states have a higher min than the federal level
Which makes perfect sense because it would be almost impossible to level the standard of living across a CONTINENT 3000 miles wide.
As for the trillionaire, that's globalism for you. But I agree that is a worrisome issue because these mega billionaires are turning to social engineering works instead of just massive monuments to their own ego. But alas personal wealth is probably gonna get our asses to mars so that's the tradeoff we have to accept.
Zathalus
Member
Two dozen states follow it or have a minimum less than two dollars different from what the Federal level is. Before politics got in the way the minimum wage was increasing at a steady pace over the decades.
The cost of living and especially food has risen dramatically over the past 15 years, and it’s factually true that wages haven’t really kept up (not just minimum wage either), while the gap between the average person and the richest is widening massively.
People are getting shafted in America and the under/working class is getting increasingly angry and bitter.
If by get our asses to Mars you mean a handful of Astronauts for scientific purposes then that is certainly happening. Although I fail to see how having a ruling elite of billionaire and trillionaires is needed for that. If you mean a permanent Mars colony, then that is not happening anytime soon. Until we have the technology to deal with fundamental issues that would arise. Oxygen and food is the least of our worries for that, radiation and the lack of earth gravity would play havoc on the health of anyone that attempts to live on Mars.
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ResilientBanana
Member
Told you.
Doczu
Member
First i would like to write that i no way condone the killing of the CEO. It is murder and the perp should be judged for it.
That said after doing some research i see that the company is as shitty as they come and seeing how healthcare works in the US i understand a lot of people either have personal tragedies with dying family members or end up with cripling debt.
Now, the last 5 years got people on a high stress level, living on a mental boiling point with covid, inflation with skyrocketing costs of living and the war in Ukraine. Online discourse is filled with resentment which isn't just fueled by political sides, but economic ones. The people cheering for the killer are on all sides of the political spectrum. They don't feel the system is fair anymore. You can't even try a legal route cause going to court in the US will drain you just as much as medical bills. They are literally untouchable.
Will we see more of such vigilante actions happen? Maybe. I would love a fair society where such companies would be taken care of, be it by legal action or by the government stepping in and taking care of it. But it looks like no action will be taken as long as the 1% won't be truly afraid of a collapse and murder sprees.
Again - i don't condone the killing. But i understand why it happened. And would love it either never happened or that this was a single incident which might lead to some changes.
That said after doing some research i see that the company is as shitty as they come and seeing how healthcare works in the US i understand a lot of people either have personal tragedies with dying family members or end up with cripling debt.
Now, the last 5 years got people on a high stress level, living on a mental boiling point with covid, inflation with skyrocketing costs of living and the war in Ukraine. Online discourse is filled with resentment which isn't just fueled by political sides, but economic ones. The people cheering for the killer are on all sides of the political spectrum. They don't feel the system is fair anymore. You can't even try a legal route cause going to court in the US will drain you just as much as medical bills. They are literally untouchable.
Will we see more of such vigilante actions happen? Maybe. I would love a fair society where such companies would be taken care of, be it by legal action or by the government stepping in and taking care of it. But it looks like no action will be taken as long as the 1% won't be truly afraid of a collapse and murder sprees.
Again - i don't condone the killing. But i understand why it happened. And would love it either never happened or that this was a single incident which might lead to some changes.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
And many don't, so how is it false? The federal minumum is still the law of the land in many states and hasn't been raised in a decade and a half even though the cost of living has damn near doubled in that time.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Universal healthcare isnt even universal. It depends on the country and what it is.
In Canada, it's changed lately for more coverage.... I think something to do with kids under 18 get lots of covered stuff now (at least in Ontario).... but normally the Canadian universal healthcare is far from it. So anyone thinking everything is free, it's not. It practically is free if you work for a company with excellent coverage. But even then most company benefits arent 100%. It'll probably be 80-90% coverage or there's a limit or tiny deductible. The more you go over the limit, the more out of pocket you got to do.
Each province does their own thing, so this comes from Ontario:
What's covered:
- Doctors visits and surgeries (not cosmetic surgery)
- Drugs administered at a hospital
- Most blood tests (not sure why but some you got to pay about $30, but most I've done are free)
- An eye test every couple years I think
- I believe if youre dead broke or a senior citizen you get more stuff covered. But if youre a typical working age guy, you mainly just get the above
So the main stuff is covered.
What's not covered:
- Small stuff like fees for crutches, ambulance fee
- Drugs (outside of hospitals). This is the big one
- Dental unless it fits into major surgery (like getting a puck at your teeth)
- Eyecare like glasses, contacts etc...
- Hearing care
- Most physio, massage, reflexology sessions
- So based on above, youre on your own unless you work for a company that has benefit coverage for things like this with the biggie being prescription drugs where you hope and pray you work at a company with 90-100% coverage especially if you got serious med issues. My bro works for a big company so he's covered awesomely, but he has an eczema ointment or something which works awesome where you cant even tell his scarring. He said if he had to pay out of pocket its about $1000/mth!
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Dude directly caused the death of hundreds of thousands of Americans through denied coverage. People need to quit acting like just because you got away with state sanctioned killing doesn't mean you didn't kill anyone. This dude was as opposite from an innocent bystander as you can possibly be.
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ResilientBanana
Member
When dealing with money, sometimes it takes a drastic and unprecedented movement to introduce change. People pay thousands for this coverage and get denied for bogus reasons. It didn’t have to come to this, but it has reached a boiling point. Too much fuckin’ around, now they’re finding out.
I also stand by the fact that killing is wrong and these CEO’s were indoctrinated and incentivized on their practices and they were just doing what the board wants and I sympathize with the kids. But as for the grown adults, they knew better and their goals were profits not saving lives. I lack sympathy but I can empathize.
Now the question is what will happen from here on out? Will this spread to other companies? Will it bring about martial law or a civil war? Who knows.
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Ellery
Member
Usually the next step is to spend $100 million on a campaign to fault the average person for plastic straws in the ocean (brought to you by British Petroleum with a sad picture of a turtle after the BP oil spill).
Or we could rile up the extremes again to annoy the broad population with identity politics before they occupy wallstreet.
And if that does not work we do have a war to fight against some sort of enemy that is threatening our freedom.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Nobody even know who the shooter is or his motive.
Some of you are basically condoning people go around trying to be Robin Hood killing the Sheriff of Nottingham due to overtaxing people.
Some of you are basically condoning people go around trying to be Robin Hood killing the Sheriff of Nottingham due to overtaxing people.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
The thing about rock bottom US federal minimum wages and those states not budging from it, that's a government problem not a business problem. Businesses will follow whatever policies to benefit them. If there's a big divide in wages and cost of living, then gov should bump it up and then businesses have to follow.
If anything, angry people should aim their frustration at the politicians for not doubling it like some some states are up to now.
It cant be that hard. In Canada, the federal min wage is over $17 (set for regulated industries), but each provinces min wage for every day joe jobs are probably at least $15/hr each. So it kind of goes hand in hand as the provinces follow the federal rate and kind of follow each other too.
The US is totally different as the federal rate is low, but each state does their own wage rate like they arent united at all. But they do their own thing where some states are double the fed rate.
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BlackTron
Member
Isn't the whole point of a slippery slope that once you're standing on it, it's too slippery to stop falling down it?
This is like the definition of how not to handle slippery slopes lol
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Incredibly tone deaf!
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
It's not about free. Nothing is free. But it increases access and keeps costs in check. In the US the system is set up in such a way that encourages a lot of corrupt incentives that add to costs without any real benefit. Insurers as for profit businesses by definition operate by paying out less than they take in, and as publicly traded corporations in fact are encouraged to maximize that delta, essentially adding the most cost they can get away with, even though they are only middle men.
The insurance system also makes it viable for drug companies to charge extortionate prices for certain medicines that they simply wouldn't be allowed to do any other way, which collectively drives up the cost of insurance for everyone.
Even if private insurance exists as an alternative or supplement to a public option, the existence of that public option helps to keep these sorts of things in check so they don't spiral out of hand.
Yeah, and in most states it is higher. So to say that it hasn't changed in 15 years is totally untrue.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
This tells me they are hitting a wall with the leads they have. This guy is in the wind. If he's smart he's back at work acting like nothing happened.
This shit is really funny:
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