Support NeoGAF

[12Goblins]

If a person is in an emergency situation in the US they cannot be denied treatment for not having insurance.

Sort of. By law (emtala) they just have to stabilize you and get you to a non life threatening state and it is no longer their obligation to treat you. Say you are bleeding internally and your blood count is life threateningly low, they will give you some blood and send you on your way, tell you to follow up with a primary. They will not perform an endoscope and cauterize the bleeding or treat whatever underlying problem you have.

 

[Kraz]

Why is it that every rich person who dies, for whatever reason, the media wants everyone to be sad? Why would I care that some CEO got shot while I see local news reporting average people in my neighborhood getting shot and killed daily? No one seems to care about that> No one expects us to be sad about that.

There does seem to be a disparity in coverage with neighbourhood deaths, unless it's a massacre of some kind. Drug overdoses and the like are basically ignored unless it's some statistic related to policy.
It may reflect current viewership, too. Parasocial with the celebrity, other factors with the unknown but rich.

There's the mistaken idea that wealth is an indicator of merit, virtue and value to community. The superstitious think it makes the person right with their image of god, giving divine right.
There was someone on one of the Musk threads who slavishly demanded that those criticizing him should be silent, unless the criticizer were also wealthy and accomplishing the same. It's not an uncommon mindset.

 

[AJUMP23]

An unbiased reporter

 

[DragoonKain]

It's not the CEO's fault that we have a for profit healthcare industry.

Yes, people don't understand anything about how anything works. You notice an overlap with the idiots cheering this death and other things. Like cheering cops getting killed, October 7th, etc. They're just dumb people who believe they're siding with the oppressed.

They think a CEO literally individually stamps approve or deny coverage for millions of people. Not how it works. Not that even if it did, killing the CEO would solve anything. You can't claim to not want human suffering, but want to cause human suffering.

Most of these people are just resentful bitter psychos who want anyone they dislike dead. These same people would cheer on Jeff Bezos dying simply because he's rich and try to justify it as "He steals jobs from poor people." They can find a way to justify the death of anyone they resent, and they resent everyone. Killing this CEO solves nothing. This isn't like taking out a spree shooter who's in the process of gunning down people at a mall. This is just causing more death because getting that revenge gives these psychos that dopamine rush of "Getting that W for the our side!"

 

[MMaRsu]

An unbiased reporter

Even the clowns on Reee were making fun of his death.

This is from the Hitman 3 JCVD Elusive Target thread:

Yes let us make fun of a man who got brutally murdered in the streets of New York.

People are abhorrent.

 

[Dural]

That is ridiculous.

I can't believe the US has the system it has.

I've read the US Gov spends more of a % of it's GDP on healthcare than many European countries do on their semi-socialised health systems.

So I don't see why it can't be reformed to be much more reasonable and accessible if others can achieve it with less spending.

Part of this is Medicaid. People on Medicaid are able to get all kids of elective surgeries for free, taxpayers paying for it. I personally know multiple people that have gotten gastric bypass surgery using Medicaid, paid absolutely nothing out of pocket. My wife is originally from an area where it's a lifestyle to keep your income under a certain level to keep government assistance. The hospitals seem to love people on Medicaid as they know they're going to get paid.

 

[jason10mm]

Sort of. By law (emtala) they just have to stabilize you and get you to a non life threatening state and it is no longer their obligation to treat you. Say you are bleeding internally and your blood count is life threateningly low, they will give you some blood and send you on your way, tell you to follow up with a primary. They will not perform an endoscope and cauterize the bleeding or treat whatever underlying problem you have.

Thats not entirely accurate. If there is evidence that the patient is ACTIVELY bleeding (to death) from something like a ruptured esophageal verices, then trying to find and stop the bleed is almost always done, or transfer from a free standing ER to a hospital associated with it. But if the doc thinks the bleed is slow (as many are from small ulcers or polyps) then isn't not really an "emergency" and the patient can leave and follow up later.

Trust me, PLENTY of people with no insurance show up with stuff like active leukemia and get treated, essentially free of charge. Now the kicker is that the meds they require to KEEP their disease treated and in check also cost and THAT'S the part they don't get because they can't pay for them. Or homeless guys with HIV, they just come in, get the viral load under control, then go back to the streets and stop taking the meds.

The real issue though, IMHO, is the MASSIVE amount of health care "loss" going to chronic disease, primarily diabetes related but also kidney failure, due to the absolutely SHITTY american diet of almost all sugar and salt. That diet completely wrecks people and sucks up so much money. We could easily pay with taxes for all the cancer treatments, injuries, and births if we weren't dealing with diabetes all the time.

 

[Bry0]

Even the clowns on Reee were making fun of his death.

This is from the Hitman 3 JCVD Elusive Target thread:

Yes let us make fun of a man who got brutally murdered in the streets of New York.

People are abhorrent.

Incredible hypocrisy. You can criticize a corrupt system without cheering on extrajudicial murder. Of course comments like this are not ban able there because it’s directed at the “correct” people.

 

[Billbofet]

An unbiased reporter

She is such a bag of shit. Is she offering up the next target here?!?!?
She is trash and comes from massive wealth herself. Ugh.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I hope people aren't shocked by these responses. When you give a little and take a lot, it's hard to find remorse when you can empathize with a killer. There's a good chance United Health screwed over the gunman or someone that hired him to the point that they literally has nothing to lose. When you don't have a lot of money to give and bills get higher and your chances of living a normal life start ceasing to exist, you tend to do crazy shit. In this instance, a man took someone else's life into their own hands and while that is not ok, and I feel everyone should empathize with a loss of life. It's not difficult to see where someone might be coming from.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Words found on shell casings where UnitedHealthcare CEO was shot dead, senior law enforcement official says

Brian Thompson, 50, was killed in a “premeditated, preplanned targeted attack,” police said.

www.nbcnews.com

Shell casings found at the scene where the UnitedHealthcare CEO was shot dead by a masked gunman in front of a busy New York City hotel had the words “deny,” “defend” and “depose” written on them, a senior New York City law enforcement official briefed on the investigation confirmed to NBC News on Thursday.

Health Care CEO's might want to take a loss rather than make record profits every year.

 

[AJUMP23]

I hope people aren't shocked by these responses. When you give a little and take a lot, it's hard to find remorse when you can empathize with a killer. There's a good chance United Health screwed over the gunman or someone that hired him to the point that they literally has nothing to lose. When you don't have a lot of money to give and bills get higher and your chances of living a normal life start ceasing to exist, you tend to do crazy shit. In this instance, a man took someone else's life into their own hands and while that is not ok, and I feel everyone should empathize with a loss of life. It's not difficult to see where someone might be coming from.

I think you can relate and still not justify or agree with the actions. As for HC companies, I think they need to remember they are in a service business and focus on serving their clients and not just the share holders. You can have satisfied clients and healthy profits. Companies prove that all the time.

 

[FUBARx89]

What's all the deleted tweets?

Mad how brazen it appears to be & escaping on a ebike. Coppers reckon they're closing in on a suspect like.

 

[12Goblins]

Yes, people don't understand anything about how anything works. You notice an overlap with the idiots cheering this death and other things. Like cheering cops getting killed, October 7th, etc. They're just dumb people who believe they're siding with the oppressed.

They think a CEO literally individually stamps approve or deny coverage for millions of people. Not how it works. Not that even if it did, killing the CEO would solve anything. You can't claim to not want human suffering, but want to cause human suffering.

Most of these people are just resentful bitter psychos who want anyone they dislike dead. These same people would cheer on Jeff Bezos dying simply because he's rich and try to justify it as "He steals jobs from poor people." They can find a way to justify the death of anyone they resent, and they resent everyone. Killing this CEO solves nothing. This isn't like taking out a spree shooter who's in the process of gunning down people at a mall. This is just causing more death because getting that revenge gives these psychos that dopamine rush of "Getting that W for the our side!"

noone is saying this solves anything lol.... just that when richard sackler is shot dead in broad daylight by one of the millions of americans whose hard working family has been exploited and betrayed by a system that they trusted, all so that one family can generate an exuberant amount of wealth (albeit, legally), noone will come to his defense but the naive. also stop projecting your ideological garbage to paint everyone with a broad brush; this has nothing to do with cop killing or "eating the rich" -- It has to do with your average Americans paying their hard earned money for health coverage and being betrayed by these same institutions that aim to exploit unsuspecting good people for the sake of profit and greed

OBviously the long term solution here is enacting laws that prevent this stuff from happening, ie reducing denial of coverage, or in the sackler case not letting Purdue pharma give a job to the FDA guy who said oxycottin was not addicting (lol)

 

[ResilientBanana]

I think you can relate and still not justify or agree with the actions. As for HC companies, I think they need to remember they are in a service business and focus on serving their clients and not just the share holders. You can have satisfied clients and healthy profits. Companies prove that all the time.

I agree. But I also hope that some of these CEO's start seeing the error of their ways, because this homicide does not look like the last of it's kind, but merely the beginning. There are probably plenty of people that might think this was a great idea. Those denial rates better start coming down.

 

[jason10mm]

I think you can relate and still not justify or agree with the actions. As for HC companies, I think they need to remember they are in a service business and focus on serving their clients and not just the share holders. You can have satisfied clients and healthy profits. Companies prove that all the time.

For sure, or at least a massive overhaul of the language used in these contracts to remove all the legalese and nebulous terms so folks can get a "plain english" understanding of what the insurance covers. Instead of evolving insurance into simpler and simpler concepts like a utility it has just spun into increasingly more labyrinthine zones of complexity that allow the insured to be totally hoodwinked.

From a legislative perspective I think the intent, if I can give any lawmaker an honest break on this, was for insurance to act as a brake on medical costs so the gov wouldn't have to directly regulate it. And this does kinda work, there are best practices that come from knowing what insurance companies will or won't pay for (ordering a multitude of labs on every patient for example, without medical justification, or asking about smoking cessation with every visit as a billable CPT code). But more and more is just pulled from the CMS reimbursement guide for medicare these days, the gov is now the defacto regulator and approver for a lot of medical costs.

Its a tough choice though. People need some stake in their own wellness, and $$$ seems to be the most consistent motivator, so a totally "for free" health care system leads to a lot of entitlement behavior. We also see conflicting situations where the gov can tax stuff like cigarettes for revenue but then also has to pay for the consequences of cigs like emphysema and lung cancer. Which way to go?

And we are also waaaaay past the point where health care should be 100% tied to employment as a way to manage the cost because the employer/worker relationship is very different now than it was 70 years ago.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Oh no, half a mill for weeks in a neuro ICU is totally believable. The amount of CONSTANT care and monitoring in these types of VERY specialized units is staggering.

Its a tough call, on the one hand its impossible for most folks to plan for these types of events, hence the need for insurance. On the other hand, 'only' $20K for living through an event that has a very high fatality rate is a trade most of us would make. Fighting the insurance company is the BS part, hopefully the hospitals did a lot of the heavy lifting for them.

I knew a guy who died, basically on the spot, from an aneurysm. They found him sitting by a tree. Probably had a bad headache for a few minutes and that was it.

You are spreading the cost while not spreading the cost. The whole point of insurance is you pool the resources you might never need so that a person who does need them can be covered. Tomorrow it will be your turn. I don't get why the healthcare INSURANCE doesn't seem to act like an insurance at all.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

But I also hope that some of these CEO's start seeing the error of their ways

The guy had an investigation of insider trading charges. My guess is coke and hookers were not far behind.

 

[AJUMP23]

The government helped create the problem as a solution for inflation. They started all of this.

Chapter 1: The origin of employer-sponsored healthcare​

The roots of employer-sponsored healthcare can be traced back to the 1920s, originating from voluntary insurance programs intended for specific groups, such as teachers, railroad workers, and postal employees. (Read Part 1: Health insurance history: Where this messy system began.)

These programs laid the groundwork for what would evolve into employer-sponsored health insurance as we know it today. However, it wasn’t until the 1940s that employer health insurance truly gained momentum.

During World War II, due to wage freezes imposed by the government to fight inflation, employers began offering health insurance to attract and retain workers.

Then, in the 1950s, the government threw in tax benefits. Boom! The tax move seals the deal, making employer-sponsored insurance a regular part of the job package. Employers in America were now in the health insurance biz (whether they wanted to be or not.)

Health Insurance History: How Employers Got in the Middle (Part 2)

A history lesson on employer health insurance and details about new health benefit option that is shaking things up for small businesses.

www.stretchdollar.com

 

[jason10mm]

You are spreading the cost while not spreading the cost. The whole point of insurance is you pool the resources you might never need so that a person who does need them can be covered. Tomorrow it will be your turn. I don't get why the healthcare INSURANCE doesn't seem to act like an insurance at all.

That was the "intent" with 'obama care' making health insurance MANDATORY. Young healthy people have little reason to buy health insurance because they are...well, young and healthy. So that pool of suckers chipping in for the one person with a massive bill falls apart when the bill hits hundred of thousands per year. It worked when a heart attack meant 6 weeks forced bed rest in some large ward full of guys just like you and just a fetching nurse gave you jello each day. The model crumbles when so many diseases and the drugs to treat them cost so much and folks live through things that used to kill them on the spot.

Now you can argue about the cost of meds but the bottom line there is that the impetus to develop most of these drugs comes from a "for profit" motive rather than an altruistic one, so the very $$$ machine thriving off of health care is the same machine making immune suppressing meds better than steroids. You can see this in real time, the drug/therapy break-throughs DIRECTLY follow the money for said disease. Or you see a therapy being created, then the company flounders till they find (the more nefarious would say -create-) a patient population that can pay, mostly by getting FDA approved and thus insurance claimable.

 

[DragoonKain]

noone is saying this solves anything lol.... just that when richard sackler is shot dead in broad daylight by one of the millions of americans whose hard working family has been exploited and betrayed by a system that they trusted, all so that one family can generate an exuberant amount of wealth (albeit, legally), noone will come to his defense but the naive. also stop projecting your ideological garbage to paint everyone with a broad brush; this has nothing to do with cop killing or "eating the rich" -- It has to do with your average Americans paying their hard earned money for health coverage and being betrayed by these same institutions that aim to exploit unsuspecting good people for the sake of profit and greed

They are actually. Why do you think people are cheering his death or saying "Sorry, but not shedding a tear for this guy"? For kicks? In their perverse minds they think it's justice.

America is a for profit system when it comes to healthcare. If people don't like that, move to Canada or something. I've been dicked over by the healthcare system more times than I can count and I've never mocked the death of a healthcare CEO because I'm not a sociopath.

This has nothing to do with justice, it's revenge. And more death doesn't make the world a better place. One can not like the healthcare system here and still be saddened by the loss of life of an innocent person. It's not an either or.

 

[Drake]

This is one of the things that as I get older I start to agree with more left leaning people. I wish we had a better solution as the current one is just awful and IMO not sustainable. Just the administrative costs of our current system is something like 30-40%. The system is so bloated right now. I'm not sure what the solution is. I think if we went the universal route it would completely bog everything down. We'd probably need 25-30% more doctors if we went that route which would take a generation to train.

 

[daffyduck]

What's all the deleted tweets?

Mad how brazen it appears to be & escaping on a ebike. Coppers reckon they're closing in on a suspect like.

Just picturing Dr Dre nodding his head along to that.

 

[JohnnyPhats]

I don’t wish death on people. But I find it hard to give a flying fuck in this situation. Dude has made 10s of millions for standing on the dead and dying. Fuck him. Killer is a fucking Chad and I hope they never find him.

 

[DeafTourette]

People say it's different to cheer for bin Laden's murder because he indirectly killed 2k Americans than it is to cheer for a hitman who directly killed a CEO. Murder is murder. It should never be celebrated!

That said, killing doesn't solve anything. I get that people are upset and at their wits end in this evil game of insurance. UHC needs to stop with the inaccurate AI and put PEOPLE in charge of each claim. And no more 90% denials!

You can have great profits without gouging and denying people service... Which is what your business is supposed to do! Look at businesses like Costco... Low prices, living wages and great profits!

 

[Mossybrew]

America is a for profit system when it comes to healthcare. If people don't like that, move to Canada or something.

"If you don't like this fucked up system move to a different country" is both unrealistic and incredibly defeatist. Things can be changed, we deserve better. Not that it will be easy or quick or would even happen in my lifetime but I have to believe Americans *can* change aspects of our society for the better, not just accept that the system sucks and will always suck so just accept it.

 

[jason10mm]

People say it's different to cheer for bin Laden's murder because he indirectly killed 2k Americans than it is to cheer for a hitman who directly killed a CEO. Murder is murder. It should never be celebrated!

To be fair, this CEO was on his way to an investor meeting rather than hiding in a cave running from the law for a decade. And it was 3K americans just in 9/11, not to mention all the other attacks he coordinated.

You can have great profits without gouging and denying people service... Which is what your business is supposed to do! Look at businesses like Costco... Low prices, living wages and great profits!

If Costco had an obligation to get you whatever item you wanted, rather than just the stuff they could get wholesale in store at the time, then your analogy would be more apt.

Plus Costco charges you a membership fee and STILL charges you for every item you buy. They don't have a single fee then you can load up on whatever you want.

If anything, health care insurance is more like a streaming service. They want everyone to pay in, but barely use the service since that is what costs them $$$. So they try to drip feed you juuuuuust enough to keep you subscribed, pull stuff hoping you won't notice and cancel.

 

[JohnnyPhats]

To be fair, this CEO was on his way to an investor meeting rather than hiding in a cave running from the law for a decade. And it was 3K americans just in 9/11, not to mention all the other attacks he coordinated.


If Costco had an obligation to get you whatever item you wanted, rather than just the stuff they could get wholesale in store at the time, then your analogy would be more apt.

Plus Costco charges you a membership fee and STILL charges you for every item you buy. They don't have a single fee then you can load up on whatever you want.

If anything, health care insurance is more like a streaming service. They want everyone to pay in, but barely use the service since that is what costs them $$$. So they try to drip feed you juuuuuust enough to keep you subscribed, pull stuff hoping you won't notice and cancel.

I honestly don’t see your point. Are you defending insurance companies? As someone that has had a lot of shit denied for me and my family, I don’t give a shit about any comparisons. I pay $1800 per month for my family coverage. It should be up to my fucking doctor what I need. Not a damn clerk at a computer looking at a chart.

 

[DragoonKain]

"If you don't like this fucked up system move to a different country" is both unrealistic and incredibly defeatist. Things can be changed, we deserve better. Not that it will be easy or quick or would even happen in my lifetime but I have to believe Americans *can* change aspects of our society for the better, not just accept that the system sucks and will always suck so just accept it.

That's the reality right now though, it's not changing any time soon. And it's a matter of opinion that other countries have better healthcare, it's not a fact. People want universal healthcare, and we'll see how long the approval for that lasts if/when wait times to get appointments go through the roof. There is no definitive perfect healthcare system. It's a matter of personal preference and what suits an individual's needs. 8 out of 10 Americans poll that they're satisfied with their healthcare quality.

But I'll tell you what the solution for making our healthcare system better is not: murder.

 

[jason10mm]

"If you don't like this fucked up system move to a different country" is both unrealistic and incredibly defeatist. Things can be changed, we deserve better. Not that it will be easy or quick or would even happen in my lifetime but I have to believe Americans *can* change aspects of our society for the better, not just accept that the system sucks and will always suck so just accept it.

I see you are heavily on the anti-immigration side of things!

Alas, it's not so easy to just move to another country, almost all of them are waaaay more strict than the US. Since Canada has paused the self-employed "cultural or athletic" pathway (paused in April 2024 till Jan 2027, very interesting choice of dates, no?) all them actor types are shit outta luck

 

[Mossybrew]

Alas, it's not so easy to just move to another country, almost all of them are waaaay more strict than the US.

Yeah, "just move to Canada" is like, good luck, doesn't work like that.

 

[jason10mm]

I honestly don’t see your point. Are you defending insurance companies? As someone that has had a lot of shit denied for me and my family, I don’t give a shit about any comparisons. I pay $1800 per month for my family coverage. It should be up to my fucking doctor what I need. Not a damn clerk at a computer looking at a chart.

I'm saying that comparing health care insurance to a costco membership is not a great analogy. Same with comparing it to auto insurance. The sad fact is that health care has a virtually UNLIMITED ceiling on costs, unlike a car which has a scrap value and can be replaced, with more expensive cars costing more to insure. Health doesn't really work that way since it relies heavily on young healthy types paying for a service they are very unlikely to need in order to fund the older, sicker ones that are using FAR more than they are putting in. Due to the wild swing in health care costs and outcome (you might die instantly on a run, or spend 2 months on machines, or 10 years in a skilled nursing facility after a stroke) its hard to really save for it yourself like you might for college, retirement, a house or other more predictable things.

If you want fully federally controlled insurance, just look to the VA and those stories to get a glimpse of what the future might look like. Health care is a beast and there is no easy wat to mange it.

 

[JohnnyPhats]

Wonder if this scumbag is reconsidering some things right now.

 

[BWJinxing]

If a company fucks over people, it's a return of shareholder value at the end of the day.

Having worked retail, the Karen shit might work, you get what you want but insurance companies are a completely different level.


It sucks, but feels like it's just another day in America. This guy probably needed some help, but was denied coverage, then went AWOL.

 

[Dural]

NYPD released pic of killer unmasked.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Wonder if this scumbag is reconsidering some things right now.

Well… he’s dead so…

 

[EviLore]

 

[jason10mm]

NYPD released pic of killer unmasked.

Man, I was kinda hoping it was...

 

[arkhamguy123]

NYPD released pic of killer unmasked.

Very sloppy of this guy. Odds of him being caught just went from 5% to 50%

 

[ResilientBanana]

The guy had an investigation of insider trading charges. My guess is coke and hookers were not far behind.

Sure. I bet he could have put a few people behind bars if whatever got out. SO I'm sure someone needed him silenced, which explains how the suspect knew about the meeting he was at.

Odd how this dude would use his credit card for both coffee and an ebike. Did they ID him yet?

 

[arkhamguy123]

UPDATE: nah this dudes too good. NYPD is gasping at straws here. The official report indicates it’s not the actual guy or even suspected to be the actual guy but someone maybe possibly related they want to simply question

The real assassins is in the wind. They’ll never get that motherfucker

 

[JohnnyPhats]

Wonder if this scumbag is reconsidering some things right now.

Well… he’s dead so…

it wouldn’t let me post a pic. It’s blue cross CEO denying anesthesia

 

[jason10mm]

Wonder if this scumbag is reconsidering some things right now.

it wouldn’t let me post a pic. It’s blue cross CEO denying anesthesia

Do NOT post that womans pic. Wouldn't surprise me if the bluesky lady that did gets in serious trouble for trying to get the CEO killed.

 

[EviLore]

UPDATE: nah this dudes too good. NYPD is gasping at straws here. The official report indicates it’s not the actual guy or even suspected to be the actual guy but someone maybe possibly related they want to simply question

The real assassins is in the wind. They’ll never get that motherfucker

The police use careful language like “person of interest” early on in an investigation.

 

[EviLore]

An unbiased reporter

Self-righteousness is one of the primary sources of evil in the world. Case in point, Taylor Lorenz.

 

[12Goblins]

UPDATE: nah this dudes too good. NYPD is gasping at straws here. The official report indicates it’s not the actual guy or even suspected to be the actual guy but someone maybe possibly related they want to simply question

The real assassins is in the wind. They’ll never get that motherfucker

its definitely the suspected killer

 

[arkhamguy123]

its definitely the suspected killer

Completely different outfit

 

[JohnnyPhats]

Do NOT post that womans pic. Wouldn't surprise me if the bluesky lady that did gets in serious trouble for trying to get the CEO killed.

Don’t post a fact?

 

[arkhamguy123]

The police use careful language like “person of interest” early on in an investigation.

Both community notes on the very link you posted and the nypd themselves aren’t saying it’s the actual guy

 

[jason10mm]

Don’t post a fact?

In the context of "hey, how bout this lady next"?

Yeah, don't do that. A. It's already been posted and B. take the high road on this one.