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[ShadowNate]

Even if it's just for the first installation, how is this reliably trackable?

I mean, there are DRM free versions of Unity games, without going into running the games offline or piracy with any "phone home" process neutered.

What a weird way to bring on a avalance of total shit on themselves.

 

[SJRB]

How is this not sabotage at this point? It's like they're actively trying to kill the company.

 

[Drizzlehell]

They probably looked at all those wildly successful games that exploded in popularity without anyone expecting them to become such a phenomenon and were like: "hey, those guys are making so much money using OUR engine! How much did we charge them for it again...?"

And then they checked and were like:

So they came up with a new Ponzi scheme and thought that everyone is just going to lay down and accept it, as if there weren't any other options on the market for developers that actually bother to put effort into their games and don't use the engine for lazy asset flips.

Glad to see that this shit is blowing up in their faces, lol.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Lux77]

Im not surprised, as this changes would directly affect a lot of developers livelihood.

 

[winjer]

Or maybe he is just trying to play the victim and shift the narrative.

 

[MagnesD3]

Ill be honest, this is one of those times where im like yeah I could see that, fuck around with someones livelyhood that they put 1000s of hours and money into making with who knows what kind of sacrifices and you might find out.. Play evil games and you might just win an evil prize.

 

[newtypepilot]

 

[Allandor]

So I guess unity is dead from now on.
They can't change their license for old titles as the developers used the license on the terms that applied at that time. No judge would allow that.
It is like car manufacturers would take fees from you whenever your car was used even though you paid for it.

Yes it can lead to unity based titles won't be sold any longer. But if a customer bought a license for a game, the game must be available to the terms when he bought the game. New license agreements are invalid (at least in the EU). But that is not true for service based games at some extent.

And if even old unity games can't be sold anymore due to license changes some publishers might go to the court.


Per install .... what were they smoking

 

[Kataploom]

An update from Unity, I don't think this deserves its own thread until they come out with actual changes for their monetization:

 

[jshackles]

An update from Unity, I don't think this deserves its own thread until they come out with actual changes for their monetization:

Now we begin the dance of releasing a new policy that's still worse than the original terms, "but see it could have been even worse than this!" that literally every company does in almost this exact same cycle when they play this same song and dance.

 

[Kataploom]

Now we begin the dance of releasing a new policy that's still worse than the original terms, "but see it could have been worse!" that literally every company does in almost this exact same cycle when they play this same song and dance.

Nobody is complaining about Unity wanting to get more money from devs, most devs understand the company deserves the money therefore "5% cut or so like UE would be better" is a popular call in this controversy. So yeah, anything they put out is gonna be "worse" for devs anyway since we're supposed to be charged more.

They still need to commit to not attempt to change terms of service as they tried by not removing the per version contract they wanted us to ignore, but I'm 100% sure someone will notice if that happens and it would be another controversy. They clearly accounted for all devs to be fucking ignorants that don't read stuff... It happened to be they themselves the ignorants that don't read their own contracts lol.

 

[rabbity-thing]

An update from Unity, I don't think this deserves its own thread until they come out with actual changes for their monetization:

The company wanted to unilaterally and retroactively alter the terms of their past contracts. Nothing they say in the coming days will matter. We now know that people from within and from outside the company who new about the proposal were pushing back against it but the dummies at the top went through with it anyway. The leadership at Unity has shown everyone that their company's word is garbage and that their contracts are worthless. They are so boned.

 

[Kataploom]

The company wanted to unilaterally and retroactively alter the terms of their past contracts. Nothing they say in the coming days will matter. We now know that people from within and from outside the company who new about the proposal were pushing back against it but the dummies at the top went through with it anyway. The leadership at Unity has shown everyone that their company's word is garbage and that their contracts are worthless. They are so boned.

They are worthless for themselves, not for the court, if any company/person could get away with violating contracts, those that do such things wouldn't be looking for legal loopholes and whatnot all the time.

I think you're right tho, it's just that I think as long as contractual measures are in place, they may wish the moon and the sun and it doesn't mean they can do whatever they want, if not everyone else would do the same.

 

[FeralEcho]

Those damned gamers always acting toxic with their behaviour.....oh wait? Its not the gamers making the death threats? Its game devs too? Hmmmm its almost like these death threats are an inherent part of the human dna where one loses its cool because of being pissed off by something and says something stupid to the person they got angered by and its something that could happen by anyone regardless of demographic or industry.

Who would've thought....well,actually John Riccitello should've thought that before deciding to fuck with the livelihood of so many devs lol

 

[dottme]

The company wanted to unilaterally and retroactively alter the terms of their past contracts. Nothing they say in the coming days will matter. We now know that people from within and from outside the company who new about the proposal were pushing back against it but the dummies at the top went through with it anyway. The leadership at Unity has shown everyone that their company's word is garbage and that their contracts are worthless. They are so boned.

That's my feeling. They might be able to fix the current policy, but fixing the distrust in the company is going to take time. I know personally I wouldn't have any confidence in working with people like this anymore.

 

[Allandor]

I guess in the long term, the unity management killer their engine. They might change some things back but the trust is gone. So developers will move on and use alternative engines. Maybe not projects almost ready to release but almost everyone else.
Yes I know the tool stack etc, but that can change very quickly.

 

[NiiloPielinen]

So the whole thing might've been a ploy to drive people to use ironsource's ad-platform?

 

[Nobody_Important]

An update from Unity, I don't think this deserves its own thread until they come out with actual changes for their monetization:

You don't need to update the changes you need to remove them.


Any attempt to charge devs like this will end in a mass exodus and the death of your company. You have no choice.

 

[Kataploom]

You don't need to update the changes you need to remove them.


Any attempt to charge devs like this will end in a mass exodus and the death of your company. You have no choice.

They need to charge more anyway, so that's why I think they say "update", maybe they'll come with a whole different proposal, which is what we all want

 

[Robb]

They need to charge more anyway, so that's why I think they say "update", maybe they'll come with a whole different proposal, which is what we all want

Will it matter though? They signed their death sentence the moment this original proposal got the go-ahead.

As some have already mentioned the trust is gone. I imagine just the knowledge that the company can do something like this is enough to deter customers. Why would you want to build your game and make your living based on an engine with this uncertainty in place?

 

[Nobody_Important]

They need to charge more anyway, so that's why I think they say "update", maybe they'll come with a whole different proposal, which is what we all want

They need to not charge anything at all. That's my point. Any "update" they have that ends in anything less than a full withdrawal of the fee will kill the company. If not immediately it will die a slow bleeding death over the next 3 years or so.


No company is going to sit and take this newfound extortion. They will either cease development on their project or they will just shut down. Because both are cheaper than going through with the greed filled insanity that Unity has tried to pull here.

 

[Kataploom]

Will it matter though? They signed their death sentence the moment this original proposal got the go-ahead.

As some have already mentioned the trust is gone. I imagine just the knowledge that the company can do something like this is enough to deter customers. Why would you want to build your game and make your living based on an engine with this uncertainty in place?

I for sure will continue my project on Unity since it's not for sale and it gives me time until I finish it to decide if I'll sell it, and no matter if I do or if I move to another project then I'll switching to another engine. If I decide to sell my current project that means making a full game, but all current advances would be ported.

But I think, even if the trust is already broken, as long as a contract per version is maintained, devs (including myself) can feel secure since it would prevent Unity to mess around currently in development projects.

Most devs I see on Twitter want to at least release their currently in development games before switching to another engine or take their time to study of instead rushing due to the emergency, so expect many to stay in Unity for a while if they roll back.

But yeah, most are definitely moving away sooner or later.

They need to not charge anything at all. That's my point.


Any "update" they have that ends in anything less than a full withdrawal of the fee will kill the company. If not immediately it will die a slow bleeding death over the next 3 years or so.

They want more money and current business model isn't enough. Devs are ok with paying more as long as it feels "fair"... They just have to come out with something that makes finantial sense for all parties.

 

[Tieno]

Reminds me of the Wizards Of The Coast DnD debaccle from a few months ago. Unity is like "hold my beer, we can do better!"

 

[Nobody_Important]

They want more money and current business model isn't enough. Devs are ok with paying more as long as it feels "fair"... They just have to come out with something that makes finantial sense for all parties.

Devs are not okay with paying shit. What world are you living in? We had a market of Studios milking players for everything they were worth BEFORE this miserable attempt at a money grab. You think all these people will just silently take the direct hit to their bottom line quietly? They will not pay this shit. They just won't. There has already been DOZENS of studios that have denounced Unity and said they will just move to a different option. This will not work.



They have one option and that is to walk back the fee. That is it. If they don't then their company is dead. Full stop.

 

[Kataploom]

Devs are not okay with paying shit. What world are you living in? We had a market of Devs milking players fro everyuthing they were worth BEFORE this miserable attempt at a money grab. You think all these people will just silently take the direct hit to their bottom line quietly? Are you high?


There has already been DOZENS of studios that have denounced Unity and said they will just move to a different option.

Yes. A revenue cut like UE? Sure they would, that's what most have been saying since this shit was announced

 

[Nobody_Important]

Yes. A revenue cut like UE? Sure they would, that's what most have been saying since this shit was announced

Read my edit.


You are high if you think the gaming landscape is going to just eat this and keep moving along lol

 

[Kataploom]

Read my edit.


You are high if you think the gaming landscape is going to just eat this and keep moving along lol

You're definitely not understanding what I said... I agree with the thing needing to go away, Unity just need something else devs can agree with to monetize the engine

 

[Nobody_Important]

You're definitely not understanding what I said... I agree with the thing needing to go away, Unity just need something else devs can agree with to monetize the engine

No I understood it. You are just not getting my bottom line. Studios will not pay a fraction of what Unity wants after years of getting it for basically nothing. It doesn't matter what form that fee takes. Especially not while there are other cheaper options. There is no situation here where Unity gets to charge any of these studios even a fraction of what it tried to do with that initial attempt. They could lower it to a single penny and I still think they would lose business. You cannot offer something for basically free over the course of years to allow businesses to build their foothold on it only to turn around out of nowhere and demand hard cash. That is just not going to work in the short term or the long term. You will destroy any trust that you have built with those companies and any trust you have built with your investors.



You cannot just 180 your business model out of nowhere for a desperate money grab and expect everything to go well on all sides. That is not how the world works.

 

[Kataploom]

No I understood it. You are just not getting my bottom line. Studios will not pay a fraction of what Unity wants after years of getting it for basically nothing. It doesn't matter what form that fee takes. Especially not while there are other cheaper options. There is no situation here where Unity gets to charge any of these studios even a fraction of what it tried to do with that initial attempt. They could lower it to a single penny and I still think they would lose business. You cannot offer something for basically free over the course of years to allow businesses to build their foothold on it only to turn around out of nowhere and demand hard cash. That is just not going to work in the short term or the long term. You will destroy any trust that you have built with those companies and any trust you have built with your investors.



You cannot just 180 your business model out of nowhere for a desperate money grab and expect everything to go well on all sides. That is not how the world works.

Those who want everything for free are better off being employees of someone else, that way they don't see that everything cost money and it has to be paid one way or another

 

[Nobody_Important]

Those who want everything for free are better off being employees of someone else, that way they don't see that everything cost money and it has to be paid one way or another

That is a nice sentiment, but changes nothing of what I said. No studio is going to pay out the ass for Unity when there are other options.


If Unity had banded together with others to make a solid stance then that would be one thing, but all they have done is hung their own asses out to dry via pure greed. They have completely fucked themselves.

 

[Allandor]

No I understood it. You are just not getting my bottom line. Studios will not pay a fraction of what Unity wants after years of getting it for basically nothing. It doesn't matter what form that fee takes. Especially not while there are other cheaper options. There is no situation here where Unity gets to charge any of these studios even a fraction of what it tried to do with that initial attempt. They could lower it to a single penny and I still think they would lose business. You cannot offer something for basically free over the course of years to allow businesses to build their foothold on it only to turn around out of nowhere and demand hard cash. That is just not going to work in the short term or the long term. You will destroy any trust that you have built with those companies and any trust you have built with your investors.



You cannot just 180 your business model out of nowhere for a desperate money grab and expect everything to go well on all sides. That is not how the world works.

That is usual business practice for years now.
You can still use the old versions under the old licenses, but don't expect any updates. That was done with docker, essentially all atlassian tools, all red-gate tools, ...

I can understand that the unity company wants to get a bit more, as they have much work with the engine and tools. developers also want to get paid.
But this way was just do absolutely wrong. If they just introduced a license like UE, it wouldn't be such a pain, but "retro charging" is something that they should know is not anything they can expect to be accepted.
Per Installation was also a not so good point. Per user-license would have been acceptable (if the user license in the end would at least cost as much).

 

[Allandor]

That is a nice sentiment, but changes nothing of what I said. No studio is going to pay out the ass for Unity when there are other options.


If Unity had banded together with others to make a solid stance then that would be one thing, but all they have done is hung their own asses out to dry via pure greed. They have completely fucked themselves.

You totally misunderstand what unity "engine" is for developers.
It is a quite easy to use and flexible engine, with a great toolset, knowledge, integration, easy to find tutorial for almost everything, ...
It is not easy to replace all that. That is why the pain is so big.
And yes most developers would pay more for that than now, as it just saves them much time.
The problem isn't, that they want more (inflation is always part of businesses), the problem is how they want to get more.

 

[Malak]

An update from Unity, I don't think this deserves its own thread until they come out with actual changes for their monetization:

 

[tmlDan]

Cherno did a good video on it, pretty interesting

 

[Deerock71]

Up to $0.20 per install

That's just the start. I grew up when you had to put a quarter in to play.

 

[Sephimoth]

Unity is Canceling the Runtime Fee

After deep consultation with our community, customers, and partners, we’ve made the decision to cancel the Runtime Fee, effective immediately.

blog.unity.com

 

[adamsapple]

Just 1 year later and Unity have now officially abandoned this fee.

Unity is Canceling the Runtime Fee

After deep consultation with our community, customers, and partners, we’ve made the decision to cancel the Runtime Fee, effective immediately.

unity.com

After deep consultation with our community, customers, and partners, we've made the decision to cancel the Runtime Fee for our games customers, effective immediately. Non-gaming Industry customers are not impacted by this modification.