Support NeoGAF

[smokeandmirrors]

Give fascists an inch they take a goddamned mile.

Don't have people like milo a platform. EVER. fascists and nazis don't have a right to speak freely. Ever. And the sooner people realize that the better.

And in before HURRR UR AS BAD AS THEM HURRR.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I wasn't able to attend due to a couple other things going on, but this is the e-mail the chancellor sent out to the campus the night of the event. It's important to note Milo's talk was supported by a student org and not the school. The chancellor is a nice guy, although I still don't agree with giving Milo a platform for what is basically hate speech on my own campus. And to deliberately pick out a student in advance and insult her is beyond words.

What a weak statement

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I disagree, if any sexual harassment charges are held, it should be against Milo, not the college

University code of conduct handbooks cover unwanted sexual advances and comments. So yes, the university does have a duty to create an environment that does not facilitate sexual harassment against students. Given this was a sanctioned event, they had the ability to take action. It does not have to reach a criminal level.

This is not free speech.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

I disagree, if any sexual harassment charges are held, it should be against Milo, not the college

The college should definitely be held accountable for the actions it encouraged by allowing Milo to speak.

Officials were warned. They knew this would happen. They ignored it. Therefore they should be held accountable for encouraging the sexual harassment of members of their student body.

 

[KRod-57]

University code of conduct handbooks cover unwanted sexual advances and comments. So yes, the university does have a duty to create an environment that does not facilitate sexual harassment against students. Given this was a sanctioned event, they had the ability to take action.

This is not free speech.

In this case all the college did was allow someone to speak and have a conversation on their campus. The college was not out of line, Milo was.

The college should definitely be held accountable for the actions it encouraged by allowing Milo to speak.

Officials were warned. They knew this would happen. They ignored it. Therefore they should be held accountable for encouraging the sexual harassment of members of their student body.

I disagree, we set a terrible precedents if we start punishing colleges for simply allowing people to speak on campus. If any charges are to be held, they should be against Milo, not the college

 

[GoldenEye 007]

In this case all the college did was allow someone to speak and have a conversation on their campus. The college was not out of line, Milo was.

The speech contained targeted sexual harassment of a student. That is not free speech and they had the ability to shut it down. They chose not to. Both are at fault.

 

[Human Trashcan]

While I'm with most of you in having a personal disdain for Milo and his views, I don't fault the college for allowing him to speak on their campus. We should be open to having a conversation with our political opposition


Obama said it best ->https://youtu.be/mi5da2AhDCY?t=241

You ever notice how this outreach bullshit only ever runs from left to right? I wonder why that is.

No, we're not obligated to hear out bigoted, ignorant bullshit. I'm so sick of that attitude.

 

[PopeReal]

In this case all the college did was allow someone to speak and have a conversation on their campus. The college was not out of line, Milo was.

Nope, they are burnt.

 

[Psychoward]

In this case all the college did was allow someone to speak and have a conversation on their campus. The college was not out of line, Milo was.

Why do you keep saying this when it isn't true? A conversation requires a back and forth.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

In this case all the college did was allow someone to speak and have a conversation on their campus. The college was not out of line, Milo was.

There was zero meaningful conversation had at the event and if you actually watched any of the video linked in the article, you would know that. The college was out of line for allowing Milo to target specific students.

I disagree, we set a terrible precedence if we start punishing colleges for simply allowing people to speak on campus. If any charges are to be held, they should be against Milo, not the college

It's not because officials "simply allow[ed] [a person] to speak on campus." It's because the person they allowed to speak harassed people.

 

[Killer Queen]

"Hey that animal is dangerous, don't let it in it could bite you"
"Okay, well, what if he doesn't. Ima let him in"
-Someone gets bitten-
Krod-57:"'yeah but it's the animals fault for biting him, not that other guys for letting him in"'

 

[Slayven]

You ever notice how this outreach bullshit only ever runs from left to right? I wonder why that is.

No, we're not obligated to hear out bigoted, ignorant bullshit. I'm so sick of that attitude.

When bigots get more empathy then their victims

 

[Frozenprince]

When bigots get more empathy then their victims

He quite literally called her a slur and we're just supposed to accept that under the guise of free speech and an open exchange of ideas.

Say some mean shit or generalize a little about white people though, and you're the bad guys now.

 

[MUnited83]

I'm not ducking anything, again I hold Milo responsible for what Milo says, not the college. The same way I do not hold youtube responsible when he says something deplorable on his youtube channel. The jerk is Milo, not the college.



I did, and again I hold Milo responsible for that, not the college. I'm fine with colleges allowing people to speak and engage in conversation on their campuses, because colleges are for adults

No, colleges are for learning. And there's nothing to fucking learn from Milo.

I will never understand this obsession with trying to hear people that are factually 100% incorrect and giving them a voice in campus. America is fucking weird.

Colleges on my country are for adults too. You know who actually comes to speak? Actual fucking experts and people renowned in their field, people with actual valuable knowledge to share. Not any random fucking ass bigot which if anything just takes time off proper learning. The campus is a place to learn, not to let any random looney mentally insane idiot go on worthless tirades.

 

[PopeReal]

He quite literally called her a slur and we're just supposed to accept that under the guise of free speech and an open exchange of ideas.

Of course. We are supposed to lay down and accept American culture to continue to shift towards hate and fear.

Or we could not be scared and actually stand up for what is right. Either way.

 

[Ekai]

If anyone in this topic is defending Milo, I swear I will *insert unmentionable violence here*. Milo is a shitstain. As is anyone who defends this shit.

 

[KRod-57]

You ever notice how this outreach bullshit only ever runs from left to right? I wonder why that is.

No, we're not obligated to hear out bigoted, ignorant bullshit. I'm so sick of that attitude.

What are you saying, we should use our political opposition as a model for our own principles? Look, if you're not willing to have the conversation, I respect that, but you should also respect those who are up to the challenge

Why do you keep saying this when it isn't true? A conversation requires a back and forth.

Because it was a 20 minute Q&A.

If you're saying there should have been a better opportunity to engage in a conversation, I completely agree. What I do not agree with is the notion that we should not allow the conversation to take place on campus

There was zero meaningful conversation had at the event and if you actually watched any of the video linked in the article, you would know that. The college was out of line for allowing Milo to target specific students.



It's not because officials "simply allow[ed] [a person] to speak on campus." It's because the person they allowed to speak harassed people.

If the person allowed to speak harassed someone, then it is that person who should be held responsible, not the college.

No, colleges are for learning. And there's nothing to fucking learn from Milo.

I will never understand this obsession with trying to hear people that are factually 100% incorrect and giving them a voice in campus. America is fucking weird.

Colleges on my country are for adults too. You know who actually comes to speak? Actual fucking experts and people renowned in their field, people with actual valuable knowledge to share. Not any random fucking ass bigot which if anything just takes time off proper learning. The campus is a place to learn, not to let any random looney mentally insane idiot go on worthless tirades.

Exactly, colleges are for learning. That is why we allow people of differing views to speak and engage in conversation on campus, students don't learn anything if they are coddled

 

[Jenov]

Uggh, and of course Breibart live streamed the speech.... so disgusting that a scum site like that is attached to our president elect.

 

[RMI]

In this case all the college did was allow someone to speak and have a conversation on their campus. The college was not out of line, Milo was.

This isn't a conversation. It's legitimizing hate speech by giving it a platform.

What's the middle ground here in your opinion?

 

[Ekai]

There is no conversation to be had with someone like Milo. That you would think so is a bit odd to me. It's high time fascists get ridiculed for what they are.

 

[Psychoward]

What are you saying, we should use our political opposition as a model for our own principles? Look, if you're not willing to have the conversation, I respect that, but you should also respect those who are up to the challenge




Because it was a 20 minute Q&A.

If you're saying there should have been a better opportunity to engage in a conversation, I completely agree. What I do not agree with is the notion that we should not allow the conversation to take place on campus



If the person allowed to speak harassed someone, then it is that person who should be held responsible, not the college.

If there was a 20 minute Q&A on if Jews are people deserving civil rights (and then come to the conclusion that they aren't) would you allow that too or is it only transgender people you seemingly have little empathy for?

 

[MUnited83]

What are you saying, we should use our political opposition as a model for our own principles? Look, if you're not willing to have the conversation, I respect that, but you should also respect those who are up to the challenge




Because it was a 20 minute Q&A.

If you're saying there should have been a better opportunity to engage in a conversation, I completely agree. What I do not agree with is the notion that we should not allow the conversation to take place on campus



If the person allowed to speak harassed someone, then it is that person who should be held responsible, not the college.

No. If you allow someone that is a goddamn serial harasser, a known one, one that has continously pulled this kind of shit at his speeches before, to come and harass someone, you're goddamn responsible for it.

Exactly, colleges are for learning. That is why we allow people of differing views to speak and engage in conversation on campus, students don't learn anything if they are coddled

I think you missed my point. There is nothing whatsoever to learn from Milo. The only fucking person being coddled here is Milo.

Not letting worthless bigots with factually incorrect and bigoted stances speak at your campus is not being fucking coddled.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

In this case all the college did was allow someone to speak and have a conversation on their campus. The college was not out of line, Milo was.



I disagree, we set a terrible precedents if we start punishing colleges for simply allowing people to speak on campus. If any charges are to be held, they should be against Milo, not the college

The college was forewarned. This is a case of negligence on behalf of the college. They deserved to be sued.

 

[necrosis]

While I'm with most of you in having a personal disdain for Milo and his views, I don't fault the college for allowing him to speak on their campus. We should be open to having a conversation with our political opposition

you can't have a conversation with only one participant

 

[jack_package_200]

Uggh, and of course Breibart live streamed the speech.... so disgusting that a scum site like that is attached to our president elect.

Its our new state-run media.

The fourth reich begins now

 

[BaasRed]

I don't care for any of the guy's views. Universities should encourage challenging people's world views but not like this and not by giving this man a platform. He is text book contrarian that changes his views whenever to suit his needs. He has no true beliefs. The fact that his word holds any weight after this and the countless controversies, including the shady situation involving the college grant. I am baffled at how easily his fans are manipulated and blinded by his basic wit and contrarian edge. Perhaps the culture in the US surrounding debates has shifted in the favour of people who get the most "zingers" and one liners in to lambast their opponents? Or is this just blowback to the extreme sensitivity and political correctness surrounding the people? Either way Milo comes out of this clean with his pockets full, bullying shouldn't be a career choice. I hope the more Universities understand this now and stop giving him a platform to spread bullshit in the guise of intellectual freedom and integrity. This isn't about free speech, this is about how a man can get away with insulting people for being themselves.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

Should a school have an actual Nazi come and speak?

There is a difference between free speech and hate speech.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

What are you saying, we should use our political opposition as a model for our own principles? Look, if you're not willing to have the conversation, I respect that, but you should also respect those who are up to the challenge




Because it was a 20 minute Q&A.

If you're saying there should have been a better opportunity to engage in a conversation, I completely agree. What I do not agree with is the notion that we should not allow the conversation to take place on campus



If the person allowed to speak harassed someone, then it is that person who should be held responsible, not the college.



Exactly, colleges are for learning. That is why we allow people of differing views to speak and engage in conversation on campus, students don't learn anything if they are coddled

Under Title IX (and general student conduct codes), the college does have a duty to protect students from sexual harassment. So if they knew or reasonably knew someone would come on and sexually harass students or failed to stop it as students pointed it out as it was happening, the university does share some responsibility.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

If the person allowed to speak harassed someone, then it is that person who should be held responsible, not the college.

I disagree. You can defend him and the college from a free speech angle all you want, but harassment is not free speech. The speaker in this case specifically targeted individuals. Furthermore, if a person or organization allows for a speaker to harass others, especially when they are aware of past precedent, said person or organization should be held accountable for the speaker's actions. They are the ones that gave the speaker the platform to harass people in the first place. Both the college and the speaker are at fault.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I disagree, if any sexual harassment charges are held, it should be against Milo, not the college

The college has an affirmative legal duty under Title IX to prevent gender discrimination or harassment. The college, although warned that gender discrimination or harassment was going to occur, took no precautions to intervene or prevent it. Then it occurred. As a result, the victim is withdrawing from school and does not feel safe.

Everyone who's ever worked for a University has been impressed upon the severity of Title IX violations, which include duty to report if a student says they've been a victim of abuse, harassment, or sexual assault.

Looking forward to the student winning a Title IX case against the university.

 

[jack_package_200]

Looking forward to the student winning a Title IX case against the university.

Any word on how much she might when she does sue the university?

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Exactly, colleges are for learning. That is why we allow people of differing views to speak and engage in conversation on campus, students don't learn anything if they are coddled

Colleges are for learning, which is why the vast majority of the education they provide do not come from guest speakers. Colleges that don't feature speakers still provide plenty of education and it's ridiculous to suggest that people like Milo have anything of value to offer.

 

[Platy]

If the person allowed to speak harassed someone, then it is that person who should be held responsible, not the college.

IF it was like .... Weird Al Yankovic who came to talk and suddenly harassed someone than I could understand your point of view. Dude is like the last person on earth to do this since he is such a cool dude.

But it is Milo. Dude made a CAREER on harassment, hate speech and bullying.
When you invite the person you KNOW what to expect.
This is news worth a topic simply because it is low even for Milo but him harassing someone is not exactly new.

 

[E-Cat]

nm

 

[GoldenEye 007]

The college has an affirmative legal duty under Title IX to prevent gender discrimination or harassment. The college, although warned that gender discrimination or harassment was going to occur, took no precautions to intervene or prevent it. Then it occurred. As a result, the victim is withdrawing from school and does not feel safe.

Everyone who's ever worked for a University has been impressed upon the severity of Title IX violations, which include duty to report if a student says they've been a victim of abuse, harassment, or sexual assault.

Looking forward to the student winning a Title IX case against the university.

Yup, hope she is able to pursue it. I understand if she doesn't because she may just want it to go away, but I hope she braves it.

 

[Frozenprince]

The college has an affirmative legal duty under Title IX to prevent gender discrimination or harassment. The college, although warned that gender discrimination or harassment was going to occur, took no precautions to intervene or prevent it. Then it occurred. As a result, the victim is withdrawing from school and does not feel safe.

Everyone who's ever worked for a University has been impressed upon the severity of Title IX violations, which include duty to report if a student says they've been a victim of abuse, harassment, or sexual assault.

Looking forward to the student winning a Title IX case against the university.

For other Title IX violations pertinent in assessing university culpability, look at what will soon be the smoldering crater of what was Baylor University.

 

[KRod-57]

If there was a 20 minute Q&A on if Jews are people deserving civil rights (and then come to the conclusion that they aren't) would you allow that too or is it only transgender people you seemingly have little empathy for?

If there were a Q&A suggesting Jews are not deserving of civil rights, I would certainly be one to challenge that notion. That's what we should do with people we do not agree with, we should challenge them in conversation/argument

No. If you allow someone that is a goddamn serial harasser, a known one, one that has continously pulled this kind of shit at his speeches before, to come and harass someone, you're goddamn responsible for it.


I think you missed my point. There is nothing whatsoever to learn from Milo. The only fucking person being coddled here is Milo.

Not letting worthless bigots with factually incorrect and bigoted stances speak at your campus is not being fucking coddled.

I do not agree, it is the harasser who is responsible, not the college, and even if Milo's personal views are all completely wrong, that does not mean there is nothing to learn from engaging in a conversation. That's what the adult world is, dealing with people we do not agree with. The best thing we can do with someone we do not agree with politically is challenge them

The college was forewarned. This is a case of negligence on behalf of the college. They deserved to be sued.

If that were the case, we would be setting a terrible precedents. It wouldn't just be college that would be subject to lawsuits, Youtube, twitter, even neogaf would be subject to lawsuit for allowing people to speak on their server.

No, all the college did was allow a person to speak and have a conversation on their campus. If the person abused that right, then the person should be held responsible, not the college

you can't have a conversation with only one participant

I agree, and I think Milo was too protected from having his ideas challenged. There should have been more than a mere Q&A at the end of an hour and a half long speech

 

[MUnited83]

Colleges are for learning, which is why the vast majority of the education they provide do not come from guest speakers. College that don't feature speakers still provide plenty of education and it's ridiculous to suggest that people like Milo have anything of value to offer.

I find the "we shouldn't coddle students" rethoric amusing. Yeah, like the people affected by this lived in a magical world before and never had to endure a crapload of abuse and harassment throughout their lives, how dare them not want them to do that on campus using their tuition money. As if the existence of hateful bigots in the world was a unknown fact those people just must know.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

For other Title IX violations pertinent in assessing university culpability, look at what will soon be the smoldering crater of what was Baylor University.

I actually have little faith in federal regulators here. They let Penn St off. They let UNC off after a 10+ year period of rampant academic fraud. They'll probably let Baylor off too. The same Baylor that had a murder cover up just about 10 years ago within the athletics department.

 

[Symphonia]

This is one person I wouldn't mind backing my car over repeatedly.

 

[Psychoward]

If there were a Q&A suggesting Jews are not deserving of civil rights, I would certainly be one to challenge that notion

yet have no problem with the university allowing someone like that to speak on an elevated platform to their students? Lmao

And that's what it is. It's an elevated platform, if the college denied milo coming he wouldn't have all of a sudden lost a platform to speak.

 

[Frozenprince]

I actually have little faith in federal regulators here. They let Penn St off. They let UNC off after a 10+ year period of rampant academic fraud. They'll probably let Baylor off too. The same Baylor that had a murder cover up just about 10 years ago within the athletics department.

Baylor is still undergoing federal investigation and purged it's Title IX program twice in less than a year.

It might not kill the football program, but it'll certainly do profound damage to the school.

 

[Platy]

yet have no problem with the university allowing someone like that to speak on an elevated platform to their students? Lmao

I think he meant he would be there in the chairs asking ... questions for the Q&A

But yeah he does show a double standard by not showing a similar willingness to do the same in this case

 

[MUnited83]

I do not agree, it is the harasser who is responsible, not the college, and even if Milo's personal views are all completely wrong, that does not mean there is nothing to learn from engaging in a conversation. That's what the adult world is, dealing with people we do not agree with. The best thing we can do with someone we do not agree with politically is challenge them

No, it isn't. If a mentally insane dude roams the street saying Apocalypse is coming and God will enact revenge upon the wicked, I just ignore the fuck out of him. Why would you stop and give him attention? Why would you try to argue with a man so far gone, that wouldn't ever be able to hear you and discuss with you in a rational discourse?

 

[Psychoward]

I think he meant he would be there in the chairs asking ... questions for the Q&A

Yes, but he's okay with the university in question allowing a person like that to come and speak anyway which is just

Lmao


People like that don't deserve an elevated platform, they deserve to stay irrelevant and isolated. Imagine if we started inviting the Westboro baptist church to colleges lmao

 

[Platy]

Imagine if we started inviting the Westboro baptist church to colleges lmao

And what is the difference ?
At least they have the excuse of being raised like that ..

 

[Psychoward]

No, it isn't. If a mentally insane dude roams the street saying Apocalypse is coming and God will enact revenge upon the wicked, I just ignore the fuck out of him. Why would you stop and give him attention? Why would you try to argue with a man so far gone, that wouldn't ever be able to hear you and discuss with you in a rational discourse?

Gaf is back at it again with the "hatred of human beings is political opinions" bullshit it seems

 

[Lyn]

There is a difference between free speech and hate speech.

I really don't get this sentiment, although I see it repeated often online. Hate speech falls under the category of free speech. That is what free speech is, the ability to speak freely regardless of whether it aligns with popular opinion or with those in power. The US has nearly complete free speech, with the exception of libel/slander, perjury, incitement of immediate violence, and a few other areas.

I certainly do not agree with Milo or his tactics. I am no expert in the law, but I would be curious to know if there is grounds to go after him for harassment. Regardless though, free speech is absolutely essential for society to function and progress. This includes the freedom for hate speech to exist simply because attempting to regulate such a thing gives more power to those who control the government. The law may seem favorable when you have someone like Obama in office, but then imagine just how screwed up things could become if Trump and a Republican Congress were able to regulate speech and amend the law.

Challenge speech with more free speech. Winning the hearts and minds of others is far better than silencing those you disagree with, as they will just go more underground and become radicalized. Personally, I would rather know who is who from the get-go.

 

[Psychoward]

And what is the difference ?
At least they have the excuse of being raised like that ..

There is hardly any difference, the difference is Milo is treated like an internet celebrity so people seem willing to look past some of his reprehensible actions and give him the time of day, thinking they can convince him.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Strange, my empathy towards the plight of Milo's free speech seems to have evaporated suddenly. How bizarre.