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[Morrigan Stark]

I really don't get this sentiment, although I see it repeated often online. Hate speech falls under the category of free speech. That is what free speech is, the ability to speak freely regardless of whether it aligns with popular opinion or with those in power. The US has nearly complete free speech, with the exception of libel/slander, perjury, incitement of immediate violence, and a few other areas.

I certainly do not agree with Milo or his tactics. I am no expert in the law, but I would be curious to know if there is grounds to go after him for harassment. Regardless though, free speech is absolutely essential for society to function and progress. This includes the freedom for hate speech to exist simply because attempting to regulate such a thing gives more power to those who control the government. The law may seem favorable when you have someone like Obama in office, but then imagine just how screwed up things could become if Trump and a Republican Congress were able to regulate speech and amend the law.

Challenge speech with more free speech. Winning the hearts and minds of others is far better than silencing those you disagree with, as they will just go more underground and radicalized. Personally, I would rather know who is who from the get-go.

Harassment doesn't fall under free speech.

 

[KRod-57]

yet have no problem with the university allowing someone like that to speak on an elevated platform to their students? Lmao

And that's what it is. It's an elevated platform, if the college denied milo coming he wouldn't have all of a sudden lost a platform to speak.

Exactly, he wouldn't have lost a platform to speak, but part of being an adult means dealing with people we do not agree with. The best thing we can do with people we do not agree with is challenge them. I do not fault the college for allowing Milo to speak and have a conversation on their campus, I only wish more would have been done to challenge Milo

No, it isn't. If a mentally insane dude roams the street saying Apocalypse is coming and God will enact revenge upon the wicked, I just ignore the fuck out of him. Why would you stop and give him attention? Why would you try to argue with a man so far gone, that wouldn't ever be able to hear you and discuss with you in a rational discourse?

That's not what we're talking about here, we're talking about a person whose political views makes up a significant portion of our society's population. The best thing we can do with people like him is challenge them

 

[Hackworth]

I really don't get this sentiment, although I see it repeated often online. Hate speech falls under the category of free speech. That is what free speech is, the ability to speak freely regardless of whether it aligns with popular opinion or with those in power. The US has nearly complete free speech, with the exception of libel/slander, perjury, incitement of immediate violence, and a few other areas.

The US has nearly complete free speech, with the exception of libel/slander, perjury, incitement of immediate violence

That's a pretty good definition of hate speech, and a summary of why shit like running a 10 minute personalized shitstorm against an individual student should get Milo banned.
EDIT: stirring up shit like this was what got him banned from twitter, which is the least giving-of-fucks social media platform on the net. What was the university expecting?

 

[Primus]

I only wish more would have been done to challenge Milo.

Please elaborate. How exactly would one "challenge Milo" in this situation?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Exactly, he wouldn't have lost a platform to speak, but part of being an adult means dealing with people we do not agree with. The best thing we can do with people we do not agree with is challenge them. I do not fault the college for allowing Milo to speak and have a conversation on their campus, I only wish more would have been done to challenge Milo


That's not what we're talking about here, we're talking about a person whose political views makes up a significant portion of our society's population. The best thing we can do with people like him is challenge them

Ah, a little healthy condescension.

Not giving someone free reign to harass people is dealing with them. I'm not sure why you're pretending a conversation with Milo has any merit, unless you're completely unfamiliar with him.

 

[MUnited83]

I really don't get this sentiment, although I see it repeated often online. Hate speech falls under the category of free speech. That is what free speech is, the ability to speak freely regardless of whether it aligns with popular opinion or with those in power. The US has nearly complete free speech, with the exception of libel/slander, perjury, incitement of immediate violence, and a few other areas.

I certainly do not agree with Milo or his tactics. I am no expert in the law, but I would be curious to know if there is grounds to go after him for harassment. Regardless though, free speech is absolutely essential for society to function and progress. This includes the freedom for hate speech to exist simply because attempting to regulate such a thing gives more power to those who control the government. The law may seem favorable when you have someone like Obama in office, but then imagine just how screwed up things could become if Trump and a Republican Congress were able to regulate speech and amend the law.

Challenge speech with more free speech. Winning the hearts and minds of others is far better than silencing those you disagree with, as they will just go more underground and become radicalized. Personally, I would rather know who is who from the get-go.

This is a extremely faulty assumption. Many European countries have stricter hate speech and yet are more free than the US.
Free speech didn't stop the goddamn Patriot Act from being enacted and that was one of the biggest atrocities against the so called "Freedom".

 

[BrutishMrFish]

If that were the case, we would be setting a terrible precedents. It wouldn't just be college that would be subject to lawsuits, Youtube, twitter, even neogaf would be subject to lawsuit for allowing people to speak on their server.

Your slippery slope isn't based on how legal precedence actually works.

I only wish more would have been done to challenge Milo

I wonder why that is. It's almost like he was able to set the terms so as to be more favorable to himself. Hhhhhmmmmm...

 

[Frozenprince]

We still trying to say that having a view of transgendered people as being subhuman is "disagreeable"?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaah.

 

[MUnited83]

Exactly, he wouldn't have lost a platform to speak, but part of being an adult means dealing with people we do not agree with. The best thing we can do with people we do not agree with is challenge them. I do not fault the college for allowing Milo to speak and have a conversation on their campus, I only wish more would have been done to challenge Milo


That's not what we're talking about here, we're talking about a person whose political views makes up a significant portion of our society's population. The best thing we can do with people like him is challenge them

People already fucking deal with people who they don't agree with every single day. The last thing it's needed it's to fucking inflate their sense of importance and give them any kind of focus.


And yes, we're talking about that. He is insane.

 

[Lyn]

Harassment doesn't fall under free speech.

Hence why I said that very specific thing, harassment, might be worth pursuing in my next paragraph. I was addressing the general sentiment though I quoted, that hate speech and free speech are different. It really isn't. Hate speech is a subset of free speech.

 

[DedValve]

Or might be overjoyed. A man that homophobic likely has a few dragon dildos in his closet.

Is it bad that I wish he loves sounding and has an accident?

If not I'd love to sound him and accidentaly flick my wrist or my whole body or something. Maybe with a retractable knife and oops.

 

[Psychoward]

Exactly, he wouldn't have lost a platform to speak, but part of being an adult means dealing with people we do not agree with. The best thing we can do with people we do not agree with is challenge them. I do not fault the college for allowing Milo to speak and have a conversation on their campus, I only wish more would have been done to challenge Milo

The best thing to challenge Milo would have been to never have him come in the first place.


There's a difference between "dealing with people who are wrong and hateful" and "inviting wrong and hateful people to come harass students at our university under the guise of an informational lecture"

 

[Demoskinos]

I'm stunned this idiot hasn't been beaten to within an inch of his life. And whats more baffling is that these schools are still letting him speak? Fucking Gross.

 

[Christine]

I do not fault the college for allowing Milo to speak and have a conversation on their campus, I only wish more would have been done to challenge Milo

Harassment is not a conversation. The university has a duty to provide an environment in which students are not harassed. They failed their duty and failed their student. They should rightfully be penalized.

 

[BackLogJoe]

Wow. I didnt realize the dude is gay. Since when was being gay ok with Nazis? Im so confused now.

 

[Sandoval]

I hope they throw a Big Hogan Leg Drop on that university and that creep.

 

[KRod-57]

People already fucking deal with people who they don't agree with every single day. The last thing it's needed it's to fucking inflate their sense of importance and give them any kind of focus.


And yes, we're talking about that. He is insane.

That's exactly why we cannot be coddled from people like this, these are people we're going to encounter regularly in our adult life, and for college students, their school is their introduction to the adult world. It is especially important for them to learn to engage in conversation with those they do not agree with. The best thing for us to do with our political opposition is to challenge them

The best thing to challenge Milo would have been to never have him come in the first place.


There's a difference between "dealing with people who are wrong and hateful" and "inviting wrong and hateful people to come harass students at our university under the guise of an informational lecture"

I do not agree, the best way for us to challenge people we disagree with is to engage in conversation with them. Look, you do not agree with me, but you found the best response to your disagreement with me was to challenge me in conversation, and I respect that.

We need more of this in my opinion. If there are any criticism I have about this campus event, it is that Milo wasn't challenged.

Harassment is not a conversation. The university has a duty to provide an environment in which students are not harassed. They failed their duty and failed their student. They should rightfully be penalized.

I do not agree with that, if anyone should be penalized it should be Milo

 

[MUnited83]

That's exactly why we cannot be coddled from people like this, these are people we're going to encounter regularly in our adult life, and for college students, their school is their introduction to the adult world. It is especially important for them to learn to engage in conversation with those they do not agree with. The best thing for us to do with our political opposition is to challenge them
.

*sigh*

They already encounter them regularly. Their existence wasn't magically hidden like was some fucking Harry Potter type shit until they aged 18. There's nothing to learn, there's nothing new, there's no advantages from this, there is no conversations to be had.

 

[Suite Pee]

I protested at this. The attendees were clearly social outcasts to the point that I almost felt bad for them. Almost.

 

[Frozenprince]

You really think this woman has never dealt with someone who virulently hates her for being trans?

 

[Dude Abides]

That's exactly why we cannot be coddled from people like this, these are people we're going to encounter regularly in our adult life, and for college students, their school is their introduction to the adult world. It is especially important for them to learn to engage in conversation with those they do not agree with. The best thing for us to do with our political opposition is to challenge them



I do not agree, the best way for us to challenge people we disagree with is to engage in conversation with them. Look, you do not agree with me, but you found the best response to your disagreement with me was to challenge me in conversation, and I respect that.

We need more of this in my opinion. If there are any criticism I have about this campus event, it is that Milo wasn't challenged.



I do not agree with that, if anyone should be penalized it should be Milo

What on earth makes you think this was a forum for challenging him? He just got to say whatever he wanted without any challenge. Any Q&A was completely in his favor due to the format. Have you never been to one of these campus speaker events?

 

[Psychoward]

I do not agree, the best way for us to challenge people we disagree with is to engage in conversation with them. Look, you do not agree with me, but you found the best response to your disagreement with me was to challenge me in conversation, and I respect that.

We need more of this in my opinion. If there are any criticism I have about this campus event, it is that Milo wasn't challenged.

You and I are arguing over whether or not someone should be given the opportunity to speak at universities while we're both on equal playing fields. Milo is harassing people for the way they were born on an elevated platform in real life.

It's not comparable.

 

[Whitephantomzx]

Omg how are debating a person harassing and sexualy harassing a person as a opinion to be challenged. The college should be sued harassment I's against the rule and law and if you invite somewho has a history of not following the rules he should not be allowed and college should be liable for it then. If the college had invited a speaker who has a history of sexual assault and he ended up raping a girl would the college not be liable???!? Jeus gaf this whole listen to other side shit is getting ridiculous!

 

[Christine]

I do not agree with that, if anyone should be penalized it should be Milo

Yout don't agree that the college has a duty to its students to prevent harassment?

 

[Jpop]

That's exactly why we cannot be coddled from people like this, these are people we're going to encounter regularly in our adult life, and for college students, their school is their introduction to the adult world. It is especially important for them to learn to engage in conversation with those they do not agree with. The best thing for us to do with our political opposition is to challenge them



I do not agree, the best way for us to challenge people we disagree with is to engage in conversation with them. Look, you do not agree with me, but you found the best response to your disagreement with me was to challenge me in conversation, and I respect that.

We need more of this in my opinion. If there are any criticism I have about this campus event, it is that Milo wasn't challenged.



I do not agree with that, if anyone should be penalized it should be Milo

Do you even understand the obligations the University had to protect the student? I see you are oddly ignoring any posts that address how the University failed their duty under Title IX. The University had a duty and obligation to protect their student and they failed. They will lose a Title IX case and they deserve to.

This wasn't a platform to discuss ethics, discrimination, or politics. This was a platform to spew hate speech and sexually harass a single individual, hate speech isn't protected under Free Speech.



Your continual defense of his "freedom of speech" is outright sickening.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Rofl.

Dude is literally saying the exact same thing over and over in every post he makes.

Guys, it's time to let this one go.

 

[Psychoward]

I do not agree with that, if anyone should be penalized it should be Milo

Why not both? Milo was the actual harasser but the university ignored multiple warnings about his previous harassment, chose to invite him anyway and he harassed a student who is now leaving because of this. Then their "apology" is some weak, vague bullshit that doesn't even reference the incident or attack Milo.

 

[KRod-57]

*sigh*

They already encounter them regularly. Their existence wasn't magically hidden like was some fucking Harry Potter type shit until they aged 18.

For many college students that's exactly what their environment is. The political views of people on college campuses in general, and the political views of the general public are vastly different. College students need to learn to live with people they do not agree with, but they also need to learn how to challenge those around them

I never thought I could get my parents to support same sex marriage, but I did.. and I could only do this after learning how to engage in a real political discussion. A conversation goes a long way

Why not both? Milo was the actual harasser but the university ignored multiple warnings about his previous harassment, chose to invite him anyway and he harassed a student who is now leaving because of this. Then their "apology" is some weak, vague bullshit that doesn't even reference the incident or attack Milo.

Because all the college did was allow the person to speak on their campus. If the person abused that privilege, then it is that person who should be penalized. It's like if I threaten someone over twitter, I should be held responsible, not twitter

Do you even understand the obligations the University had to protect the student? I see you are oddly ignoring any posts that address how the University failed their duty under Title IX. The University had a duty and obligation to protect their student and they failed. They will lose a Title IX case and they deserve to.

This wasn't a platform to discuss ethics, discrimination, or politics. This was a platform to spew hate speech and sexually harass a single individual, hate speech isn't protected under Free Speech.



Your continual defense of his "freedom of speech" is outright sickening.

I disagree, and I do not think they would lose such a case. If I am wrong, well then time will tell all, but I'm pretty confident it won't. Also, I never said anything about freedom of speech..

 

[jack_package_200]

Rofl.

Dude is literally saying the exact same thing over and over in every post he makes.

Guys, it's time to let this one go.

We "tried" to have a conversation with him. That sure worked out.

 

[Psychoward]

Do you even understand the obligations the University had to protect the student? I see you are oddly ignoring any posts that address how the University failed their duty under Title IX. The University had a duty and obligation to protect their student and they failed. They will lose a Title IX case and they deserve to.

This wasn't a platform to discuss ethics, discrimination, or politics. This was a platform to spew hate speech and sexually harass a single individual, hate speech isn't protected under Free Speech.



Your continual defense of his "freedom of speech" is outright sickening.

Technically it actually is. It just shouldn't be given an elevated platform by a university.

 

[Hackworth]

Wow. I didnt realize the dude is gay. Since when was being gay ok with Nazis? Im so confused now.

Stormfront occasionally threaten to have him killed as a "gay jewish plant", but he's accepted by most of the alt-right because he loudly and publicly hates women.

 

[Psychoward]

For many college students that's exactly what their environment is. The political views of people on college campuses in general, and the political views of the general public are vastly different. College students need to learn to live with people they do not agree with, but they also need to learn how to challenge those around them

Do you think this student who was harassed was completely unaware of what the world outside her campus is like? Do you think by being harassed by an outside individual she was "learning to live with people different than her"? Your vague, hippy bs isn't exactly inspiring considering the actual situation that just took place.

You talk about how college students need to learn to live in the "real world" yet seem blissfully clueless on to what a college campus is actually like.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Technically it actually is. It just shouldn't be given an elevated platform by a university.

Even then, this is partially hate speech. But it's also targeted sexual harassment, which isn't protected at all.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

One does not bring a dog with a history of attacking people to a pet show. In this case, a dog was brought and attacked. The pet show is liable.

 

[Lyn]

This is a extremely faulty assumption. Many European countries have stricter hate speech and yet are more free than the US.

Can you elaborate please? Are you suggesting that their speech is more free than the US despite strict hate speech laws, or are you referring to citizens having greater freedoms in life than in the US?

If it is it the latter, then I certainly would not disagree or debate there. When it comes to speech itself though, which is my primary concern and what I was referencing, things seem far more restricted. The NY Times had an article earlier this year on the crackdown of free speech in various countries lately with one of their primary examples being the arrest of some puppeteers in Spain. They had a puppet hold up a sign that vaguely referenced two terrorist groups with a play on words. That was enough to get them arrested. Then there are the more obvious and common examples of denying the Holocaust in Germany being a criminal offense.

In that sense, I would not call that more free than the US, although I would certainly be open to hearing about other areas I may be less familiar with. And again, just to clarify, this is solely about speech and not referencing freedom in life as a whole.

As an additional side note, it is obviously abhorrent to go so far as to deny the Holocaust as with the example I mentioned above, but wouldn't you want to know WHO thinks that so that you can either challenge them publicly or know that they probably aren't someone to hang around with as a friend? I certainly would.

 

[Psychoward]

Even then, this is partially hate speech. But it's also targeted sexual harassment, which isn't protected at all.

That's true.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

You could literally put a stereo that repeated the word CUCK for two hours on stage and it would have more "conversational" and "viewpoint challenging" value than this fucker.

 

[Professor Beef]

I have to disagree, he is definitely a political opposition to my views personally, and to say he is not open to having a conversation is completely inaccurate considering that is literally the reason why he was there to speak on that campus. The people who are not open to having a conversation are the ones who believe he shouldn't be allowed to speak on campus

A Milo defender on GAF

I'd say I'm surprised, but after the shit I've seen defended, I'm not shocked at all.

 

[Heshinsi]

Fuck him, but I still have issues with the idea of no platforming.


Edit: having read more I would acknowledge that this case is different due to the harassment. In general however I stand by the fact that no platforming at universities is somewhat silly. Universities should promote debate and people should question these people rather than stop them from speaking.

They should promote debate and foster a sharing of ideas and thoughts. But not with neo-Nazis and the likes. In the same way we wouldn't accept a Taliban and/or ISIS sympathiser to have a platform to engage students, we shouldn't allow the alt-right and other like minded individuals a platform as well.

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

Milo is the scum of the earth, and fun fact, a top choice for press secretary.

That said, Kramer's response didn't help matters. People like Milo, the rest of Breitbart, and Tomi Lahren love to paint liberals as melting snowflakes, and her response fell right in line with that. The best way to beat a bully is to stand up to them, stand your ground, and fight back, not yell about it to the newspaper and quit the school. I'm not saying she deserved it, but her response played right into his hands.

 

[Psychoward]

Milo is the scum of the earth, and fun fact, a top choice for press secretary.

That said, Kramer's response didn't help matters. People like Milo, the rest of Breitbart, and Tomi Lahren love to paint liberals as melting snowflakes, and her response fell right in line with that. The best way to beat a bully is to stand up to them, stand your ground, and fight back, not yell about it to the newspaper and quit the school. I'm not saying she deserved it, but her response played right into his hands.

now we got victim blaming too yo

 

[toddhunter]

For many college students that's exactly what their environment is. The political views of people on college campuses in general, and the political views of the general public are vastly different. College students need to learn to live with people they do not agree with, but they also need to learn how to challenge those around them

I never thought I could get my parents to support same sex marriage, but I did.. and I could only do this after learning how to engage in a real political discussion. A conversation goes a long way



Because all the college did was allow the person to speak on their campus. If the person abused that privilege, then it is that person who should be penalized. It's like if I threaten someone over twitter, I should be held responsible, not twitter



I disagree, and I do not think they would lose such a case. If I am wrong, well then time will tell all, but I'm pretty confident it won't. Also, I never said anything about freedom of speech..

People are trying to have a conversation with you and it isn't actually making much progress. How is anyone supposed to talk sense into this guy?

The university failed to protect this person. It should never happen again there or elsewhere.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Milo is the scum of the earth, and fun fact, a top choice for press secretary.

That said, Kramer's response didn't help matters. People like Milo, the rest of Breitbart, and Tomi Lahren love to paint liberals as melting snowflakes, and her response fell right in line with that. The best way to beat a bully is to stand up to them, stand your ground, and fight back, not yell about it to the newspaper and quit the school. I'm not saying she deserved it, but her response played right into his hands.

Why the fuck should she bother staying at an institution that failed her?

Why should she contribute positively to it and it's reputation?

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Imo the university has the right to invite any voice to come speak on campus, even if that voice is dedicated to just spitting stupid hateful nonsense. I wouldn't encourage anyone to attend but that's besides the point. BUT if there was truly reason for the university to believe that Milo was coming to harass and defame one of their students in public and allowed him to do it anyway... Well I think that's not only a stupid decision but one that should result in legal action against the university. I don't know if that was the case here because I don't follow shit stains like this, but if another university were to host milo and he does this same shit, I'd hope the victim would sue the hell out of the university for knowingly being party to their harassment.

 

[Psychoward]

Imo the university has the right to invite any voice to come speak on campus, even if that voice is dedicated to just spitting stupid hateful nonsense. I wouldn't encourage anyone to attend but that's besides the point. BUT if there was truly reason for the university to believe that Milo was coming to harass and defame one of their students in public and allowed him to do it anyway... Well I think that's not only a stupid decision but one that should result in legal action against the unvoersith. I don't know if that was the case here because I don't follow shit stains like this, but if another university were to host milo and he does this same shit, I'd hope the victim would sue the hell out of the universityfor knowingly being party to their harassment.

Milo literally (not figuratively, actually literally) made most of his fame by harassing people. The University deserves some of the blame.

 

[TheSpoiler]

"Have a conversation with them, we did it before" ignores all the other things done to make sure that conversation was had and listened to, including society standing in and protecting the afflicted, laws, and decades of protests and hard work.

Milo wanted to cause a shitstorm, he had no intent on listening to the person, and honestly nobody needs to spend time discussing with people like that until proper rules are set in place because they really won't give a shit when it comes time for your turn.

Try again.

 

[call_kotaku]

Can you elaborate please? Are you suggesting that their speech is more free than the US despite strict hate speech laws, or are you referring to citizens having greater freedoms in life than in the US?

If it is it the latter, then I certainly would not disagree or debate there. When it comes to speech itself though, which is my primary concern and what I was referencing, things seem far more restricted. The NY Times had an article earlier this year on the crackdown of free speech in various countries lately with one of their primary examples being the arrest of some puppeteers in Spain. They had a puppet hold up a sign that vaguely referenced two terrorist groups with a play on words. That was enough to get them arrested. Then there are the more obvious and common examples of denying the Holocaust in Germany being a criminal offense.

In that sense, I would not call that more free than the US, although I would certainly be open to hearing about other areas I may be less familiar with. And again, just to clarify, this is solely about speech and not referencing freedom in life as a whole.

As an additional side note, it is obviously abhorrent to go so far as to deny the Holocaust as with the example I mentioned above, but wouldn't you want to know WHO thinks that so that you can either challenge them publicly or know that they probably aren't someone to hang around with as a friend? I certainly would.

Hatemongers (or specifically anti-semites as Sartre originally wrote about) absolutely love to be challenged on their views and debate people, because they relish the opportunity to do so in bad faith. Nothing is ever accomplished by debating literal nazis, just deny them a platform and don't try to divert away responsibility by hiding behind free speech.

It's like saying neogaf should stop banning trolls because we need a platform to discredit them.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I genuinely wonder if people would defend a speaker who came to recruit for ISIS or something.

Make no mistake, milo & co are trying to radicalise people.

They might not be trying to teach them how to make bombs, but they are attempting to indoctrinate them into an incredibly violent ideology.

Homophobic and transphobic rhetoric is violence, as is white supremacist rhetoric. They all result in harm to marginalised groups.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Milo is the scum of the earth, and fun fact, a top choice for press secretary.

That said, Kramer's response didn't help matters. People like Milo, the rest of Breitbart, and Tomi Lahren love to paint liberals as melting snowflakes, and her response fell right in line with that. The best way to beat a bully is to stand up to them, stand your ground, and fight back, not yell about it to the newspaper and quit the school. I'm not saying she deserved it, but her response played right into his hands.

Let's see here.

Stay at a school where people like this are allowed to come talk shit about you in a presentation, meaning that any further "debates" would most likely not be done in a civil manner.

Or

Make it public that this school isn't relegating a safe spot as it proclaims, move on to another school because time and money is better spent at a place where you can have civil discussions, and continue to push for equality elsewhere?

One of these is going to bring to light a problem. The other is going to feed into what they want. But by all means, tell us how she should have combated Milo, the same guy willing to bring a shitpost to life as a presentation.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

I'm not saying she deserved it, but her response played right into his hands.

You realize that if she fought back in a more direct manner, the situation would still be the same, right? When people stand up to the fucker, he plays the victim, and his followers eat that shit up. They can and would have harassed the hell out of her for that if they haven't done so for her statements already.