Hasphat'sAnts
Member
See my responses earlier in the page.
And the Jeyne scenes are problematic in their own right. So let's not even go down that road.
This serves as character assassination for Sansa. Full stop.
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See my responses earlier in the page.
And the Jeyne scenes are problematic in their own right. So let's not even go down that road.
This serves as character assassination for Sansa. Full stop.
gigantor21
Member
Wasn't the reason they decided to gamble on this because neither of them knew how awful Ramsay was? She was clearly unaware of his sadism and "hunts", so whatever choice she made was made in the dark. Pretty weaksauce response.
bengraven
Member
I can NOT fucking wait to see Cersei get her's.
Watching every moment of that trial and her eyes telling the tale of how she's loving every moment and every little twist to the story...
Also: Cersei put the Sparrows in power. Technically she did it before the wedding, right? So Tommen, if he had balls, could remove them from power.
I thought the exact fucking thing.
Watching every moment of that trial and her eyes telling the tale of how she's loving every moment and every little twist to the story...
Also: Cersei put the Sparrows in power. Technically she did it before the wedding, right? So Tommen, if he had balls, could remove them from power.
I thought the exact fucking thing.
Back to being a victim for a while until someone else comes through (Brienne maybe) and saves her from the dumb situation she never should have been in. We knew it was going to happen (or worse; with dogs involved or Theon involved) but it was still gross to see it and it really put another layer onto the unfortunate divergence that Sansa in Winterfell has been.
The Sand Snakes and pretty much everything in Dorne was terrible. Bronn and Jaime reminded me of the Three Amigos on those horses and the fight scene was the worst. If they had written out the Sand Snakes and had it just be Darkstar plotting with her instead that'd have been an upgrade.
Arya's scenes were the highlight of the episode for me. I couldn't really have asked for more out of them.
Jorah and Tyrion had a nice scene together and it did lead to "The dwarf lives until we find a cock merchant" which is probably a combination of words never uttered in the English language before.
Olenna and Cersei's scene together was very good though Tommen letting them take away his wife was....mm....
The Sand Snakes and pretty much everything in Dorne was terrible. Bronn and Jaime reminded me of the Three Amigos on those horses and the fight scene was the worst. If they had written out the Sand Snakes and had it just be Darkstar plotting with her instead that'd have been an upgrade.
Arya's scenes were the highlight of the episode for me. I couldn't really have asked for more out of them.
Jorah and Tyrion had a nice scene together and it did lead to "The dwarf lives until we find a cock merchant" which is probably a combination of words never uttered in the English language before.
Olenna and Cersei's scene together was very good though Tommen letting them take away his wife was....mm....
Jesus christ this is fucking ridiculous. D&D are now a couple of sickos and just wanted to see Sansa get raped.
Now that would be really unfortunate.
Atraveller
Banned
Not disagreeing with you on that, but I really love Arya's arc in Dance, along with Theon's and Selmy's (rip).
bengraven
Member
I am seriously considering making "Cock merchant" shirts.
Oh I've been expecting this and it fits with Ramsay 100%. The problem is Sansa's involvement, that particular scene didn't suit her.
Also, TWOW SAMPLE CHAPTER SPOILERS:
Harry Hardyng turns out to be an asshole. Not a complete monster like Ramsay but an asshole at the very least. Sansa actually learns to use her sexuality to her advantage and gain the upper edge over Hardyng. She could have done something close here or at least gone into it confident instead of crying. Again, the scene didn't fit with her character development at all.
KingHenrik30
Member
There were PLENTY of other ways to go about "giving her more to do"
Apparently to D&D, it's better to have her serve as a helpless victim and be a tool for little fingers plots instead of being taught how to play the game in the Erie.
Great choice!
No it's stupid regardless, I'm theorizing where the mindset of the writing is
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
This was their decision and their decision alone. How else you explain why it was here?
"sicko" is a strong word, but it's pretty clear that D&D felt Sansa's character development needed a few more detours by way of rape.
Isn't that the nature of the story though??
While you are plotting there is much you don't know?
She was aware that Joffrey was a lying little brat and she still betrayed her sister and lied for him. The North remembers!
bengraven
Member
Same and same and same.
It wasn't a dig at what little bit of Arya's story we've gotten (between both books it's still only like 5 or 6 short chapters?) since Storm, because that's all been fantastic. It was simply me saying the scene was fantastic. Most of Arya's stuff in the books has been set up.
Theon we still have hope for.
Jorah is going to take Selmy's place I think...there will be a final reckoning with the Harpy...I think.
Yeah I was thinking the whole time "at least in the books..."
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
But it will be so SHOCKING! You know, cause they haven't been heavy handed at all in foreshadowing his death at all, you know like lingering on him getting cut with a likely poisoned weapon.
The whole Dorne plot is so bad at this point and just feels completely pointless.
It's like the writers spent some amount of time over the course of 3 seasons setting up the the Iron Islands and the Riverlands and the Brotherhood without Banners and they have those plot points pretty well set up for Jaime to deal with that stuff and introduce the Greyjoy Brothers for this year. And instead they saw how popular Oberyn was and ditched all that stuff in favor of some of the worst material I've seen on the show, with the Power Rangers level cheese coming from Ellaria and the Sand Snakes.
Dude, look no further than that guy saying they didn't intend it as a rape and watch everyone pile on about how the writers are terrible and derpa derpda durr. Fucking nowhere in that article did Cogman say it wasn't a rape scene.
gigantor21
Member
She also came up with that new unit for the soldiers to protect Robert/Robin, which Littlefinger was actually impressed by. She's becoming a more capable player in the story, and didn't need to be raped first before doing it.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yeah since it was with main character who has been continually a victim
KingHenrik30
Member
Drop the fucking mic after this one, well played
Eighty Deuce
Banned
The fact this season is a wash is disappointing, they cut enough material from the books that could have saved the season. I feel like egos are coming into play and that The show runners are just trying to make this show more theirs than Martins.
bengraven
Member
Preview stuff:
mmmm, can't wait to see disheveled Natalie Dormer.
And Olenna vs. The High Sparrow. Emma Peel vs. Sam Lowry. I love the cuts in the promo like "boom boom boom THE SHOWDOWN OF THE CENTURY".
and some hints of Sansa and Theon's alliance. They gonna be jumping into a snow pile soon.
And Olenna vs. The High Sparrow. Emma Peel vs. Sam Lowry. I love the cuts in the promo like "boom boom boom THE SHOWDOWN OF THE CENTURY".
and some hints of Sansa and Theon's alliance. They gonna be jumping into a snow pile soon.
toastyToast
Member
What I don't get about Littlefingers plot is wouldn't it be enough for the northern men to know that Sansa is alive to motivate them to rally against the Boltons? Sansa being used doesn't make any sense. At least the Arya thing was a fabrication so she just magically appeared out of nowhere and the northerners had to accept it begrudgingly. This wedding legitimizes the Boltons at Winterfell. The plan hinges on something that may or may not happen and fails to leverage the remnants of an army that nearly took over the continent. The Stark bannermen + Stannis would have been easy mode Winterfell takeover.
Atraveller
Banned
Man, if D&D messed up "my name is Theon Greyjoy", then I really don't know what I would do.
KingHenrik30
Member
This has always been my theory as well, as well as with most one media-to-another adaptations. Those doing the adaptation just want to take some one else's work for their own.
So... has anyone been able to work out how Littlefinger's plan actually makes any sense? Even taken on its own, not thinking about the book, it seems moronic. Why would he literally throw Sansa, such a valuable piece in the "game" away for... what? He has no guarantee she won't be killed, either by the Bolton's, or in the battle between Stannis in the Boltons, or in any other circumstance. Why wouldn't he keep her close to the chest?
Steelyuhas
Member
I was surprised it wasn't done like that.
Atraveller
Banned
Him hitter her over "I hate the Hound" is great.
I assume it was because this was her first sexual encounter and it was with a crazy person and wasn't prepared for what was about to happen. I basically see it as the same situation as with Dany and how she eventually took control with Drogo, although I fully expect Sansa to get to that point right away after this.
Huh? Where?
Of everything that they've changed, they needed Ramsay raping someone? They couldn't have another way for Sansa to end up reuniting with Theon/Stannis/Rickon?
I'm sorry, I don't like rape used for shits and giggles.
That would have made sense. That would have been great for her character.
I'd seriously consider buying one and getting into the poultry business.
Askherserenity
Member
Sansas dress did look fantastic. Good job costume designer 
PhoenixDark
Banned
For the record I'm not opposed to the plot development of Sansa being raped, per se. I can imagine that happening to her if she was married to Ramsay, which is what the show decided to do. My problem with the scene is the ugly way it was set up/filmed/written/etc. It felt completely unnecessary and exploitative, and it also was clear it was nothing more than another cliff hanger to the showrunners. Just like Cersei's rape last season was nothing more than another shock beat for the show.
You don't have to show us that. One shot of Sansa's face as she realizes what is about to happen would be enough. One shot of Theon's reaction would be enough. And that type of handling of the situation would make even more sense next episode with a couple shots of a vacant, scared looking Sansa - or her flinching at the touch of Ramsay. Basically...the type of thing Martin has written or would write. The type of thing most good writers would probably do, in fact.
Instead the showrunners have once again given us an ugly sexually violent scene - and in this case one that doesn't really serve a purpose. We know Ramsay is a horrible person, we know he likes violent sex. We know these things already.
You don't have to show us that. One shot of Sansa's face as she realizes what is about to happen would be enough. One shot of Theon's reaction would be enough. And that type of handling of the situation would make even more sense next episode with a couple shots of a vacant, scared looking Sansa - or her flinching at the touch of Ramsay. Basically...the type of thing Martin has written or would write. The type of thing most good writers would probably do, in fact.
Instead the showrunners have once again given us an ugly sexually violent scene - and in this case one that doesn't really serve a purpose. We know Ramsay is a horrible person, we know he likes violent sex. We know these things already.
Buddha Beam
Banned
Between this episode and the previous, you could almost start to believe that Ramsay would at least be kind to Sansa for one reason or another they were sort of making him seem like he might not be a total nutter with her, going by what he was saying. This showed that it was not the case. Ramsay is still a monster, same as he ever was. Expected? Sure. But now it's confirmed. There's absolutely zero chance at redemption for him.
This is also what happens on a wedding night too, kids. Sansa knew that going into it. I had no problems with that scene. They handled it about as tastefully as they could have.
"God's Beard!"
Member
What did you want from the scene? Sansa to get all sassy to Ramsay? She's made a choice and knows that bad shit is going to happen to her in order to move into a position to pull the rug out. But she's still a confused girl who's been passed around like a baton. She's either going to suck it up and stick to the plan or she fights back and all hell breaks loose. It's not like they've built her character up enough to justify her acting like Miranda all of a sudden. And Sansa didn't know the full extent of Ramsay's character until that scene, acting all cheerful and seductive wouldn't have made sense.
This is a place where consummating the marriage is part of establishing its validity. She knew she was gonna get fucked the moment she agreed to marry the guy.
This is a place where consummating the marriage is part of establishing its validity. She knew she was gonna get fucked the moment she agreed to marry the guy.
Ramsay's absolute malevolence being subdued by Sansa's newfound take-charge attitude? That's verging on Mary Sue territory.
Sansa 'had' to marry Ramsay for Littlefinger to frame the Bolton's as traitors, which lines him up for a win-win-win and control of the north in the coming Baratheon-Bolton-Lannister scrap.
KingHenrik30
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";164309678]What did you want from the scene? Sansa to get all sassy to Ramsay? She's made a choice and knows that bad shit is going to happen to her in order to move into a position to pull the rug out. But she's still a confused girl who's been passed around like a baton. She's either going to suck it up and stick to the plan or she fights back and all hell breaks loose. It's not like they've built her character up enough to justify her acting like Miranda all of a sudden. And Sansa didn't know the full extent of Ramsay's character until that scene, acting all cheerful and seductive wouldn't have made sense.
This is a place where consummating the marriage is part of establishing its validity. She knew she was gonna get fucked the moment she agreed to marry the guy.[/QUOTE]
I think what people wanted from that scene was for her to not even be there at all
This is a place where consummating the marriage is part of establishing its validity. She knew she was gonna get fucked the moment she agreed to marry the guy.[/QUOTE]
I think what people wanted from that scene was for her to not even be there at all
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Say what you will about Joffrey, but he wouldn't have sat there meekly. Heads would have rolled. Of course given that the royal family went there with not much protection, it might not have ended so well for King Joffrey.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";164309678]What did you want from the scene? Sansa to get all sassy to Ramsay? She's made a choice and knows that bad shit is going to happen to her in order to move into a position to pull the rug out. But she's still a confused girl who's been passed around like a baton. She's either going to suck it up and stick to the plan or she fights back and all hell breaks loose. It's not like they've built her character up enough to justify her acting like Miranda all of a sudden. And Sansa didn't know the full extent of Ramsay's character until that scene, acting all cheerful and seductive wouldn't have made sense.
This is a place where consummating the marriage is part of establishing its validity. She knew she was gonna get fucked the moment she agreed to marry the guy.[/QUOTE]
Ramsay having Theon watch is fucked up enough already without resorting to pulling the R-card.
I haven't had an issue with a lot of other things they've done in this area (at least, the ones they intentionally changed) but this was just unnecessary.
This is a place where consummating the marriage is part of establishing its validity. She knew she was gonna get fucked the moment she agreed to marry the guy.[/QUOTE]
Ramsay having Theon watch is fucked up enough already without resorting to pulling the R-card.
I haven't had an issue with a lot of other things they've done in this area (at least, the ones they intentionally changed) but this was just unnecessary.
Exactly what I was thinking. Given the pep talk from Baelish about "making Ramsey yours" I would have thought this scene would have played out very differently. Add in Sansa's talk to Myranda and there would have been more than enough precedent for her to seduce/control Ramsey in this moment.
Also, as Sansa, you know this is coming. You know the customs, you know Ramsey is a sick person. Mentally, tactically, logically, (post Baelish) Sansa would prepare herself. The show has not been leading Sansa to be this dumb and it sucks to just have everything thrown in the gutter.
Ok from now on I'm pretending Dorne was cut and the Greyjoy-Jaime-Bronn Storyline is a thing:
- Balon Greyjoy remains as the last of the five kings that is either alive or a direct threat to the Lannisters.
- Cersei is afraid of another full-scale Greyjoy Rebellion so she sends Jaime to assassinate Balon.
- Jaime obviously can't do this alone so he recruits Bronn,
- The two get to the Iron Islands to find that Balon died coincidentally at the same time Mads Mikkelson returned.
- Jaime and Bronn run into Victarion, who is pissed and has a fight scene with Bronn. Mads breaks up the fight and takes Jaime and Bronn.
- Mads and Bronn have an amazing scene together with wine and prostitutes. Bronn gains Mads' trust.
- Jaime meets Yara and they have some interesting scenes.
- Kingsmoot happens, it's awesome.
- Mads declares that the Greyjoys will take Casterly Rock now that Tywin is dead and secretly plans to use Jaime to convince the remaining forces to surrender.
- Victarion is sent to Meereen with Bronn. Mads knows Vic will betray him and tells Bronn to kill Vic once they have Dany.
- Jaime finds out about Cersei's infidelity somehow.
- Yara gives Jaime the chance to escape. Jaime refuses and decides to go to Casterly Rock with Mads as revenge against Cersei. Goes against the redemption arc but hey it's better than fucking Dorne.
- Snoop Dogg is cast as Moqorro. He goes on an amazing journey with Bronn and Vic.
Byakuya769
Member
Bronn is getting the axe. They nerfed him with poison so Unsullied won't cry too bad about Bronn the Boldest losing.
cj_iwakura
Member
I am not liking that Cersei is running roughshod over the Tyrells, but it'll just make The Walk all the more glorious.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I've not cared much for these last two episodes. I do like the Tyrell storyline though. It doesn't feel like unfolding Arya's has been done well. When was she allowed to see the many faces in the books?
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