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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

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kswiston

Member
40-ish? I'd call that a short life.
So the point that you had to marry early and get kids soon still stands even though average life expectancy does indeed get influenced by infant deaths.

Most made it above 40.

If you look at the English monarchs who lived past 20 years old:

- 91% made it to 30
- 80% made it to 40
- 54% made it to 50
- 33% made it to 60

Obviously people live longer now. Males can expect about 2 decades more of life now, and survivorship doesn't start dropping at a noticeable rate until 55 due to a lack of wars, plagues, etc.

Also, marrying early only applied to females. With some exceptions for arranged marriages in royal lines, most male nobles got married in their mid-late 20s after they had an opportunity to accomplish something in their life and provide for a family. Girls were typically married in their mid-late teens.

If we are talking about regular people, age of marriage was actually high for both sexes in the middle ages. Research points to the average age of marriage for peasants being in the early 20s for both men and women. You talk about getting a start on child rearing, but in actuality, parents were more concerned with keeping the help of their children on their own land.
 

Hamlet

Member
No. Mance is dead.

Ciarán Hinds is finished with the show.

Aww thats a shame.
tntTi6z.gif
 

kswiston

Member
We should get used to minor plot points being cut or greatly simplified.

We're talking about 9.5 hours of television to cover what amounted to over 80 hours of novel in audiobook format between Feast and Dance. Not all of that was description of feasts and wondering where whores go :p
 

Chuckie

Member
Most made it above 40.

If you look at the English monarchs who lived past 20 years old:

- 91% made it to 30
- 80% made it to 40
- 54% made it to 50
- 33% made it to 60

Obviously people live longer now. Males can expect about 2 decades more of life now, and survivorship doesn't start dropping at a noticeable rate until 55 due to a lack of wars, plagues, etc.

Also, marrying early only applied to females. With some exceptions for arranged marriages in royal lines, most male nobles got married in their mid-late 20s after they had an opportunity to accomplish something in their life and provide for a family. Girls were typically married in their mid-late teens.

If we are talking about regular people, age of marriage was actually high for both sexes in the middle ages. Research points to the average age of marriage for peasants being in the early 20s for both men and women. You talk about getting a start on child rearing, but in actuality, parents were more concerned with keeping the help of their children on their own land.

Very interesting and helpful.
I didn't talk about child rearing though.
 

Faddy

Banned
Most made it above 40.

If you look at the English monarchs who lived past 20 years old:

- 91% made it to 30
- 80% made it to 40
- 54% made it to 50
- 33% made it to 60

Obviously people live longer now. Males can expect about 2 decades more of life now, and survivorship doesn't start dropping at a noticeable rate until 55 due to a lack of wars, plagues, etc.

Also, marrying early only applied to females. With some exceptions for arranged marriages in royal lines, most male nobles got married in their mid-late 20s after they had an opportunity to accomplish something in their life and provide for a family. Girls were typically married in their mid-late teens.

If we are talking about regular people, age of marriage was actually high for both sexes in the middle ages. Research points to the average age of marriage for peasants being in the early 20s for both men and women. You talk about getting a start on child rearing, but in actuality, parents were more concerned with keeping the help of their children on their own land.

Exactly. Everyone is like but but Joan of Arc. There is a reason she is remembered 600 years after her death. She was an outlier, someone who did an extraordinary thing, and wasn't twelve probably closer to 17 when she became prominent in the Hundred Years War.
 

Faddy

Banned
Little lord Robert was quoted as being 13 in the the show last episode. He was sucking teat in season 1.

In the book, I think somewhere between 1 and 2 years pass from the start of AGOT and the end of ADWD.

And Lord Royce said that Lysa had him suckling until he was ten.

I'm not 100% on the ages of characters but I think in the show it seems like
Sansa - 16
Arya - 15
Bran - 15

Ned was in there straight after the maester and the midwives left.

Now of course we need to understand it is TV and make allowances. I mean in Walking Dead Judith is still an infant while Carl has sprouted like Bran.

If we are going to talk about characters aging up too fast then Rhaegal and Visceron are the stand out culprts. They have trebled in size since they were locked away but I suppose dragons=magic so they don't have to obey any sort of laws of biology or thermodynamics.
 

gutshot

Member
This. The seasons have to do with the tilt of the Earth, a year on the other hand is simply the complete rotation of a planet around its star. The fact that they have irregular seasons wouldn't affect the length of a year. I remember someone posting in one of the previous threads a more recent theory suggesting that the Long Night was an astrological event regarding a comet striking Planetos and screwing up it's tilt thus causing the long night and weird seasons. I don't exactly buy it but it's interesting nonetheless.

Is Planetos really what the planet is called or is that like a Reddit creation? Never heard that before.
 

kswiston

Member
I remember someone posting in one of the previous threads a more recent theory suggesting that the Long Night was an astrological event regarding a comet striking Planetos and screwing up it's tilt thus causing the long night and weird seasons. I don't exactly buy it but it's interesting nonetheless.

World of Ice and Fire heavily hints at the irregular seasons being magical in nature. Or at least, it states that they are no longer tied to the tilt/revolution of the planet.
 

Kain

Member
World of Ice and Fire heavily hints at the irregular seasons being magical in nature. Or at least, it states that they are no longer tied to the tilt/revolution of the planet.

They talk about (spoiler if you haven't read WOIAF)

how different cultures around the world have more or less the same historical events (two moons, the long night, dragons...) and it's pretty much a given that there were originally two moons, a comet destroyed one and the fragments fucked up the planet, waking up (or maybe they come from the moon?) bad things as dragons or white walkers and creating the long night or the broken steps and so on. That affected climate and seasons as well, the planet's axis may be skewed.
 

Faddy

Banned
That better just be a Reddit creation. Westeros/Essos already makes me cringe a bit. Planetos would be too much

There is Norvos and Sothoryos as well. Planetos is just a generic fandom name.

The series requires thoughts about the planet since there are weird seasons and comets. Things we know that come from how our planet sits in the solar system.
 

bengraven

Member
Maggy the Frog hangs out by the dart board at your local bar and hustles bikers for cigarette money.

She's married though, so remember that the flirting and cheap beer is just for fun. Her husband's name is Vulcan and it's not after the alien race on Star Trek. Every time he leaves his house someone calls animal control, worried a grizzly bear is on the loose.
 

Kain

Member
Maggy the Frog hangs out by the dart board at your local bar and hustles bikers for cigarette money.

She's married though, so remember that the flirting and cheap beer is just for fun. Her husband's name is Vulcan and it's not after the alien race on Star Trek. Every time he leaves his house someone calls animal control, worried a grizzly bear is on the loose.

She was hot. No regrets.
 

Speevy

Banned
Hey guys, have we talked about Stephen Dillane's signing full time on another show next season?

That seems kind of significant.
 

NeoGiff

Member
Hey guys, have we talked about Stephen Dillane's signing full time on another show next season?

That seems kind of significant.

Are you serious? Oh, fuck...

Brienne can fuck off back to her AFFC plotline if this is going where I think it is.
 

Kain

Member
It seemed to me that she was trying to emulate Natalia Tena, and it kind of rubbed me up the wrong way.

Yeah, for a sec she reminded me of her too. Both are hot and bad, so all is good.

Hey guys, have we talked about Stephen Dillane's signing full time on another show next season?

That seems kind of significant.

There's certainly been speculation that they are planning to kill the Mannis now that he is getting cool. More proof that D&D hate the true king.
 
Dillane split time between The Tunnel and GoT before, iirc. He's mentioned that GoT is only half the year for him, so it allows time for other projects. It'd really depend on how much they plan on using him and what the schedule is like for the other show. Before S4 he stated:
It's not actually that much of a commitment, Game of Thrones. It's only half the year and not that many filming days, so I'm not hugely involved in it at the moment. Who knows what it'll be like next season...
Could mean something, could be nothing.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Most made it above 40.

If you look at the English monarchs who lived past 20 years old:

- 91% made it to 30
- 80% made it to 40
- 54% made it to 50
- 33% made it to 60

Obviously people live longer now. Males can expect about 2 decades more of life now, and survivorship doesn't start dropping at a noticeable rate until 55 due to a lack of wars, plagues, etc.

Also, marrying early only applied to females. With some exceptions for arranged marriages in royal lines, most male nobles got married in their mid-late 20s after they had an opportunity to accomplish something in their life and provide for a family. Girls were typically married in their mid-late teens.

If we are talking about regular people, age of marriage was actually high for both sexes in the middle ages. Research points to the average age of marriage for peasants being in the early 20s for both men and women. You talk about getting a start on child rearing, but in actuality, parents were more concerned with keeping the help of their children on their own land.

This isn't totally correct. First, you need to consider how many of those monarchs died of unnatural causes. Until the Stuarts, it was expected for male monarchs to participate in war. Several kings were executed, also lowering the average age.

Next, marrying early happened to men pretty often. While you're right that wealthy men usually married in their late 20s, that was only the case for the sub-noble elite. That being, the merchants, bankers, and, lawyers who Renaissance Italians called the "popolo grosso". These men waited to marry because it took a decade or more to build up their wealth and become "real men". Because femaleness is traditionally something that is grown into, rather than earned, and because female fertility expires more quickly, women were expected to marry young.

But noble men didn't have this burden. As dukes or princes, their worth was inherent. If you look at England's nobility alone, most monarchs married in their early twenties or before. Henry VIII's elder brother Prince Arthur was only fifteen when he married Catherine of Aragon. Many other monarchs, like Henry II, Richard III, Edward I, and Henry IV married before 21.

What you said about common people marrying in their mid or late 20s is pretty correct, although this was mostly true of farmers. Marriage around age 20 was the norm for women with any means whatsoever in Northern Europe, and in Italy middle-class women would often marry as early as 12.
 

Moff

Member
well at some point the story needs to stop making characters popular and killing them off, right?

...right?
 
They're not having Quentyn Martell in the show, right? I guess with no Quentyn and no Victarion, what is going to go down in Mereen?

More specifically for Dorne, my impression from the books has been that Doran figured he'd get some sweet alliance with Dany after Quentyn met up with her and since Dany basically laughed in his face and Quentyn got roasted, Dorne would give the middle finger to Dany and back Aegon. But if there is no Aegon in the show, then what? Are they just going to support Dany when the show fast tracks her invasion of Westeros because they'll simplify things and just play up how much Dorne hates the Lannisters?

I'm just sick of Dany having massive plot armor and constantly being insulated from all her poor choices, whether that's TV Dany or Book Dany. I want my Dornish Red Wedding for Dany.
 

Moff

Member
They're not having Quentyn Martell in the show, right? I guess with no Quentyn and no Victarion, what is going to go down in Mereen?

More specifically for Dorne, my impression from the books has been that Doran figured he'd get some sweet alliance with Dany after Quentyn met up with her and since Dany basically laughed in his face and Quentyn got roasted, Dorne would give the middle finger to Dany and back Aegon. But if there is no Aegon in the show, then what? Are they just going to support Dany when the show fast tracks her invasion of Westeros because they'll simplify things and just play up how much Dorne hates the Lannisters?

I'm just sick of Dany having massive plot armor and constantly being insulated from all her poor choices, whether that's TV Dany or Book Dany. I want my Dornish Red Wedding for Dany.
they recast myrcella,, cast trystane so I think there will be some kind of story to her and trystane. my best guess would be that trystane falls in love with myrcella but will be forced to marry dany as soon as she lands.

as for mereen, I guess the sons of the harpy plot must be enough for one season and after daznaks pit she gets the hell out of there.

btw. didnt we have all episode titles by this time in the past? I'm wondering if the pit will be 8, 9 or 10
 

ryseing

Member
they recast myrcella,, cast trystane so I think there will be some kind of story to her and trystane. my best guess would be that trystane falls in love with myrcella but will be forced to marry dany as soon as she lands.

My money is still on Trystane being fAegon.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
Are you serious? Oh, fuck...

Brienne can fuck off back to her AFFC plotline if this is going where I think it is.

I think they're going to end on the cliffhanger with Stannis, same as Jon, just like the book. If they go full-on Brienne assassination I'll flip some shit.

Hopefully this is just something the schedules just lined up for him to be able to do. :(
 
Oh wait he's just doing the tunnel again? Ok that literally means nothing. And we know D&D have said there are no major spoilers this season for TWOW so Stannis dying is out of the picture.
 

Speevy

Banned
Well, in "The Wheel" preview
Selyse is crying for some reason.

One of the following characters is dying this season

-Shireen
-Melisandre
-Stannis

What else would reduce that crazy bitch to tears?
 

Dysun

Member
Oh well, the Mannis has to die at some point in the story. There's no way he'll ever be king of anything.

The Nights King!
Well, in "The Wheel"
preview Selyse is crying for some reason.

One of the following characters is dying this season

-Shireen
-Melisandre
-Stannis

What else would reduce that crazy bitch to tears?

The pink letter could explain the reaction
 
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