Last Hearth
Member
Uh, a snowstorm, like in the books?
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Uh, a snowstorm, like in the books?
m_shortpants
Member
Do you guys think that
Jon will get stabbed in this season? He has to right?
I think Davos is away from Stannis/Winterfell for a reason. If Stannis falls, Davos x Rickon could be a thing. At least if something bad happens to Shireen too.
m_shortpants
Member
Just caughg up the last few pages. Holy shit, if Mannis dies I'm going to be so sad.
man..getting spoiled by the show! what a strange feeling.
man..getting spoiled by the show! what a strange feeling.
biosnake20
Member
That's a fair assumption, but there's absolutely no way they'd leave show Stannis in that situation for very long.
They want to get to the resolution of the Bolton/Stannis conflict swiftly, wouldn't you think?
PHOENIXZERO
Member
What if when Jon comes back as a zombie and becomes the new Night King and marches but instead of fighting it all turns into on giant Thriller dance?
Basileus777
Member
I'm pretty sure there will be more than one of these.
badcrumble
Member
It wouldn't be left as a cliffhanger if it happens. Assuming he gets raised somehow in the books - which basically everyone is assuming - he won't die on the show unless it's in the same season in which he gets brought back to life, period.
Then I would be the happiest human of all time.
They could make their own magic swords by quenching the steel in their own readily-available tears instead of having to stab their wives to death all the time.
Everyone thinks it's going to come down to White Walkers vs. Dragons, but it's actually all about Onionmen vs. Varys' mermaids. Can you be made to cry if you're already underwater? A question for the philosophers.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
That's certainly heartening!
The Smoking Bun
Banned
The last scene of the show should be stream of main character corpses all laid out within the Red Keep and then the camera pans to the Iron Throne with Balon Greyjoy sitting on it and he's just giggling like a schoolgirl...
hehehe.... idiots...
Atraveller
Banned
Nothing important happened between Theon's screwing up and him getting killed off-screen, so maybe D&D is just holding it off until the Greyjoys storyline.
To me it isn't a romance, Daario us just some dude she is screwing because she is horny. She must be frustrated about how things are going in Mereen, she needs to get her release somehow and Daario is the only person she finds suitable.
What I'd find hilarious is if on the "Previously on" segment before the episode, they show Stannis and his leeches. That's so redundant at this stage.
I think Asha/Yara still has a bit to play. Perhaps they won't have Euron or Victarion after all so that when Balon dies, Yara is the only successor and she looks to command everyone to assist in the Battle of Winterfell with a bigger army than the first time. Or she's the one that drives the story towards Meereen. Where was it Littlefinger was taking Sansa? Did I not hear him say they were going west? Towards the Iron Islands perhaps? (Could be very wrong about this, I was half paying attention to this scene at the time)
Moff
Member
actually, that they never showed balon dying makes me think we still might see more greyjoys.
what other reason would they have to delay his death?
on the other hand, showing his death would have had a lot of upsides. one less character to care about, one more gory scene, the leeches. why delay it for so long?
what other reason would they have to delay his death?
on the other hand, showing his death would have had a lot of upsides. one less character to care about, one more gory scene, the leeches. why delay it for so long?
Basileus777
Member
If anything I think it's the opposite. Showing his death would require them to show the fallout. If they are cutting the Ironborn storyline, they'd ignore Balon, not bring the Greyjoys to the spotlight by killing him off.
I really doubt Euron/Victarion will ever appear. Balon might in order to tie things off depending on what they do with Yara.
Instead of falling off the bridge, he fell down the plot hole, along with Shireen's black hair and Rodrik Cassel's force of 200 men in Season 2.
bengraven
Member
Hey, you know all that raiding we started in Season 2...Balon declaring he was going to take the North...well after Theon lost Winterfell, Yara lost to dogs, and those men surrended to Theon, just assume we're all at home licking our wounds and salt wive's Koontz.
Why didn't we consider the threat of dogs?
I'm about 800 pages into book 3. Some thoughts:
#1 The lurid and explicit gay love affairs in the show are an invention of the show creators, and not actually in the book, right? In the book there are plenty of explicit straight love scenes but the book never goes out of its way to explicitly describe a queer love scene. So... I'm in book 3, and Renly is LONG dead, and I just realized that I never read a single page that showed Renly and Lancel Lannister making love, let alone Renly and Loras Tyrell. The only thing I can think of is someone (possibly one of Stannis's men at Dragonstone in book 2?) quipped that Margaery Tyrell is like to die a maid, referring to the fact that Renly will likely never make love to his wife and give her a child. But I remember no character responding and asking what that person who made the quip meant. So it's like it was an uninteresting fact - the person made the quip, jesting that Renly is not attracted to women/Margaery, and the characters (and the author) left it at that.
#2 My favourite part of the book so far has been the first meeting between Oberyn and Tyrion. That has been one of my favourite conversations so far. I love Oberyn...makes me so angry that the Mountain kills him later. ;_;
#1 The lurid and explicit gay love affairs in the show are an invention of the show creators, and not actually in the book, right? In the book there are plenty of explicit straight love scenes but the book never goes out of its way to explicitly describe a queer love scene. So... I'm in book 3, and Renly is LONG dead, and I just realized that I never read a single page that showed Renly and Lancel Lannister making love, let alone Renly and Loras Tyrell. The only thing I can think of is someone (possibly one of Stannis's men at Dragonstone in book 2?) quipped that Margaery Tyrell is like to die a maid, referring to the fact that Renly will likely never make love to his wife and give her a child. But I remember no character responding and asking what that person who made the quip meant. So it's like it was an uninteresting fact - the person made the quip, jesting that Renly is not attracted to women/Margaery, and the characters (and the author) left it at that.
#2 My favourite part of the book so far has been the first meeting between Oberyn and Tyrion. That has been one of my favourite conversations so far. I love Oberyn...makes me so angry that the Mountain kills him later. ;_;
The Renly/Loras stuff is definitely there in the books, but yeah, it's all implied since neither are POV characters. The show doesn't restrict itself like that, so it makes more sense to show it all.
adamsappel
Member
People don't say "What do you mean?" when they both understand. Several characters make oblique references to Renly and Loras being gay, but there aren't any sex scenes.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
To be fair I don't think the show is pretending Mel & Stan are having a Nicholas Sparks garde love affair either.
Both are tools to each other and Mel seems uber-manipulative, she may has well go, "Muahaha! All according to Plan!"
Renly wasn't screwing Lancel in the show, Loras just looked a lot more Lancel like in Season 1.
Ha! You are now starting to see the key difference between the books and the show, subtlety. The show spells things out VERY explicitly, such as THIS CHARACTER IS GAY or this is the person responsible for X. The books on the other hand force you to pay attention to draw connections. It is entirely possible to read all the books thus far and never realize that Renly and Loras are gay. Unlike the show their relationship isn't common knowledge and known only to a few, thus because they aren't POV characters you have to read between the lines to understand the nature of their relationship.
The biggest one comes from Stannis himself who is the one that quips "in your bed she's like to die that way," referring to Magaery's maiden status. There's also that line by Loras to Tyrion himself about why he joined the Kingsguard at such a young age when he could be about prowling and he quips something about how "when the sun has set, no candle can replace it." Obviously, he's referring to the fact that Renly is dead and no one else can ever replace him. Again, all very subtle.
If you ever read the Dunk and Egg novels the third novellas includes a gay character and yet I had no idea until I read it for like the third time. Then all of a sudden I was like "how the hell did I miss that?" It's why I love the books, so much stuff is hidden beneath the lines.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
And Oberyn's bisexuality which almost dominates his character in the show, comes from like half a sentence in the book.
In ASOS that is. There may have been more references in AFFC, I forget it's been awhile.
In ASOS that is. There may have been more references in AFFC, I forget it's been awhile.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Honestly the show's depiction of Loras is pathetic. So much progress has been made in terms of how gay characters are portrayed on television, from The Wire to Happy Endings to Spartacus. Seeing Loras reduced to nothing more than his sexuality (and awkward exchanges with Cersei) is pretty asinine. I understand that not every side character is going to get good scenes but come on.
From a show perspective wouldn't it make a lot of sense to have Loras become close with Tommen, as he does in AFFC? The show has explored the juxtaposition of Cersei and Maergery, and done a great job at it. One is generally disliked by the people, the other is loved. Why not explore a similar dynamic with Jaime and Loras? Jaime once being the greatest knights (skill wise) in the realm, now Loras is (or in the top 5-10). I can imagine a scene of Loras teaching Tommen how to fight and telling him how great of a fighter his father was, as Jaime watches.
From a show perspective wouldn't it make a lot of sense to have Loras become close with Tommen, as he does in AFFC? The show has explored the juxtaposition of Cersei and Maergery, and done a great job at it. One is generally disliked by the people, the other is loved. Why not explore a similar dynamic with Jaime and Loras? Jaime once being the greatest knights (skill wise) in the realm, now Loras is (or in the top 5-10). I can imagine a scene of Loras teaching Tommen how to fight and telling him how great of a fighter his father was, as Jaime watches.
bububuu it's edgy
Moff
Member
honestly I have a very hard time imagining that, I didnt even know loras was gay when I read the books, his first quality was being a skilled warrior. I doubt many show watchers remember that, in the show he is basically the new queen's gay brother, period.
bengraven
Member
Bottom line: only one of the POVs are gay. (JC)
And he isn't in a relationship with anymore because his lost love is dead. Most of the POVs aren't even in a relationship with anyone, so no need for any nonsense. I think the only POVs to ever have sex in the same chapter would be Jon, Tyrion, Theon, Dani, Arianne (?) and Cat.
Edit: okay, added like three more...nvm...my point is mootish.
No, I don't think even Cersei suggests that Marg is fucking her handmaidens. She's all about getting preggers with King babies.
And he isn't in a relationship with anymore because his lost love is dead. Most of the POVs aren't even in a relationship with anyone, so no need for any nonsense. I think the only POVs to ever have sex in the same chapter would be Jon, Tyrion, Theon, Dani, Arianne (?) and Cat.
Edit: okay, added like three more...nvm...my point is mootish.
No, I don't think even Cersei suggests that Marg is fucking her handmaidens. She's all about getting preggers with King babies.
It's really bad, and what's worse is the Tommen-Loras relationship really did give them a good way to salvage it this season after years of it being awful. I realize that after season 2 they didn't have a lot to work with with him, but it's like they never read their scripts and realized that every single scene was about him being gay. Even just rewriting one or two of them to be about something else would've gone a long way. Them eliminating his post-mortem loyalty to Renly and having him have this weird fling with Olyvar would be so they can set up their Faith trial plot would be whatever if they would just add a scene or two developing something else in him. They can make something up, I don't care. A thrilling arc about Loras and Ser Pounce. Loras gets science lessons from Qyburn and makes a series of startling scientific discoveries. Loras and Kevan go on a hunting trip. Whatever. Just something.
Exterminieren
Banned
At the core of it, GRRM does not really seem like a man keen on writing homosexual relationships, preferring innuendo and and thinly veiled references to any actual substance. I'm not claiming that Loras is depicted well on the show- far from it, actually- but at least homosexuality can't be ignored like it is in the book.
This is an author who portrays a gay king as a flamboyant fop who dresses his knights in rainbows and fucks his finest knight. It's fair to say subtle portrayals of homosexuality are WAY down his list of priorities. JonCon is better, I guess, but his homosexuality is barely even text.
This is an author who portrays a gay king as a flamboyant fop who dresses his knights in rainbows and fucks his finest knight. It's fair to say subtle portrayals of homosexuality are WAY down his list of priorities. JonCon is better, I guess, but his homosexuality is barely even text.
Steelyuhas
Member
Still don't know if I'm sold on the JonCon sexuality, certainly not something that I noticed in the text.
It's subtle, he certainly speaks about Rhaegar with a LOT of admiration. The first time I read the books I didn't catch that Renly and Loras were having a relationship, but after subsequent re-reads you start to realize things. By the time ADWD came along I was familiar enough with George's way of doing things and you can see that Jon Con speaks about Rhaegar the same way that Loras speaks about Renly. The only difference is that JC was probably never corresponded, it's sad and beautiful at the same time, poor guy
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