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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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ArkkAngel007
Member
It's really not that fresh (weeks/months) at this point, nor has there been any action by Jon to indicate such. LF tipped his hand far too openly fir her to be reduced to such beliefs after:
When Sansa went to Jon initially on retaking Winterfell, he pretty much wanted nothing to do with it. She convinced him to lead the attack for their home.
When LF initially seeded the thoughts of his bastard status, Sansa created a Stark cloak for Jon.
When Sansa was angered at the meeting, it had nothing to do with being the leader of the house. It was with being treated like a girl who knows nothing of the ways of war, despite knowing the enemy best (having been there when Stannis fell also). Her brother being arrogant and wanting it done with, perhaps knowing he is usually far more cautious due to, yes, being a bastard and having to gauge situations better.
When Jon prepared the lord's chambers for Sansa, it was Sansa who insisted Jon take them. That to her it was his right now. Not out of the situation forcing it, but that it is her legitimate thought and belief. Something I may add that she hasn't had the luxury of since being held captive by the Boltons and prior even to that.
When Jon was declared KODN, she was legitimately happy for him.
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What D&D were referring to I don't think is a future Stark schism. That part of their relationship has passed, nor does that seem to be what they are saying. It seems more that it really is going to be two characters to keep an eye on as things will get tense, but in a different way.
LF now faces a new obstacle: Jon. It's because of now another wolf his object of affection, and ambition, are out of his reach. And his method will be similar to what he did with Ned. Sansa will know this, but what can she do? Jon will be too focused to gathering for the Great War to turn LF's aid. Sansa can't speak too clearly against LF, due to what happened to the last person who knew too much. Sansa doesn't want Jon to end up like Ned and Lysa. So she has to hope that Jon learned from BotB and can pick up on what she's telling him.
So what we'll hopefully see is frustration mounting between the two as Sansa plays a dangerous game against a very helpful LF.
Edit: The expression in the Godswood is her painfully recognizing the barbs of manipulation LF is throwing at her with the bastard talk. The last scene of her is recognizing LF is now an immediate threat, especially now that Jon holds part of LF's kingdom.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I agree with your leaning towards Arya dying.
I guess my biggest difficulty with her character is figuring out how her skills are useful in the great war to come. She's a bit of a nutter too.
Yeah and these were AFTER her meeting with LF. It would annoy me to see Sansa having made this huge step in the right direction only for her to fall back into LF's arms...
Ps Re Sansa. right now she's the most important player in the game not named Dany. And that's only because Dany has Dragons
She's the 2nd or 3rd in line at winterfell with bran unlikely to be able to rule.
She's 2nd or 3rd in one to rule the Riverlands should Edmure Tully die without fathering an heir she would rightfully inherit it.
She's technically Littlefingers Heir for the moment (harrenhall)
She has a great relationship with the Tyrells and almost willingly married Loras.
She's beloved by the lords of the Vale, mostly for being Ned Starks kid. But Robyn Aryn looks up to her like he did his mother (in a super creepy way)
She's beloved by the Dornish because she's Neds Daughter. And
Both Jamie and Tyrion Lannister wish her no harm (and Tyrion may still be her husband) and would possibly choose her well being over Cersi's
So that's 6/7 main houses that Sansa is on good terms with. Including Dany. She can basically do whatever she wants at this point. Which is why Littlefinger wants to make her his queen. As she would grant him legitimacy just like every other person who has tried to marry her. However as soon as Sansa realises this she won't need him and she could easily dispose of him.
She's the 2nd or 3rd in line at winterfell with bran unlikely to be able to rule.
She's 2nd or 3rd in one to rule the Riverlands should Edmure Tully die without fathering an heir she would rightfully inherit it.
She's technically Littlefingers Heir for the moment (harrenhall)
She has a great relationship with the Tyrells and almost willingly married Loras.
She's beloved by the lords of the Vale, mostly for being Ned Starks kid. But Robyn Aryn looks up to her like he did his mother (in a super creepy way)
She's beloved by the Dornish because she's Neds Daughter. And
Both Jamie and Tyrion Lannister wish her no harm (and Tyrion may still be her husband) and would possibly choose her well being over Cersi's
So that's 6/7 main houses that Sansa is on good terms with. Including Dany. She can basically do whatever she wants at this point. Which is why Littlefinger wants to make her his queen. As she would grant him legitimacy just like every other person who has tried to marry her. However as soon as Sansa realises this she won't need him and she could easily dispose of him.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Hasn't anyone ever informed Sansa (is anyone really aware?) that Littlefinger betrayed Ned?
Sansa needs to be on the iron throne, her tragic story needs a happy ending.
Cersei knows. Umm...everyone else exploded.
That's what we're going to find out. But anyways GRRM called Arya one of his 5 main characters and that his series was primarily about following them.
"In a sense my story will be a generational saga telling the life storyline these 5 character, three men and two women. The 5 central characters will be Tyrion, Daenerys, and the three children of Westeros, Arya Stark, Bran Stark and the bastard Jon Snow."
Arya like Sansa and Bran is being set up for the endgame.
Poimandres
Member
It's a nice subversion of the Uncle Fucker trope.
Nobody knows that besides Cersei. Which would make for kind of a cool moment if Sansa and her ever meet again, would definitely make Sansa just straight up murder LF in a fit of rage.
Again, it really depends on when GRRM said that. The story has changed dramatically since the early 00's, his over arching vision has probably expanded considerably.
ArkkAngel007
Member
We haven't seen it on screen and she didn't know of it immediately. Books are just as ambiguous from what I recall on my last read.
However, I'm sure Joffery had mentioned it as the fall and death of daddy Stark seemed to be a favorite subject to torment her with. Well, that's if he didn't embelish to say he had done the act himself. Not that Sansa believed it if it had been said at all.
Arya is the most dangerous person in Westeros. She can sneak into anywhere and kill anyone. Even Dany isn't safe.
I see her uniting with Jon and Sansa next season. She'll probably protect Jon from political schemers. Remember that Arya is also a walking lie detector.
In the outline, Arya was a love interest for Jon that fought the White Walkers with a sword. Her importance to the endgame plot seems to tied to Jon's plotline.
Well some of this is untrue.
The Tyrells are extinct so her relationship to them means nothing now.
The Dornish don't really care for Ned Stark nor her
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
While this is true. He's said that his ending hasn't changed since he first created it back in the early 90's.
Last time I checked The Queen of Thornes was still alive... And not every Tyrell was in kings landing.
As for Dorne. You are forgetting about Ned Dayne. Jon Snows milk brother who is in the books one of the most important men in Dorne. He is named after Ned Stark. So clearly that didn't happen without reason. With house Martell now having no men in direct line of succession Ned would be the most likely choice to marry Arriane and rule Dorne. He's also currently alive on the show
Marmaladefire
Member
People seem to have this idea that the last chapter of the book, or episode of the show will feature three characters: Jon, Dany and Tyrion(?) vs a bunch of white walkers.I don't really know why. It's not going to be an interesting fight if all anyone has at stake is protecting a mass grave of northerners and Dany's long silver hair.
I really doubt every important or semi important character is getting got before the end. In fact, I'd put money on LF being taken out before Sansa.
I really doubt every important or semi important character is getting got before the end. In fact, I'd put money on LF being taken out before Sansa.
Ned Dayne is book only. He doesn't exist on the show.
Queen of Thorns isn't a Tyrell. She's a Redwyne and I'm not sure why she's still in charge of the Reach. Someone else would get it.
Anyways Olenna and Tywin'a talk in season 3/4 established that Loras is the future of House Tyrell and would go extinct if he died or joined the KG.
Yeah except the show is going in a completely different direction to the books.
If there is love from Dorne towards the Starks, it hasn't been established, ever, in the show.
Olenna also thought Sansa was a bit stupid.
Loras is never going to have children in the books because of his sexual orientation and in the show because he exploded.
Ned Dayne exists in the show. He's the Archer who makes friends with Arya when she is with the brotherhood (I think)
Heckler456
Banned
Do you think being gay makes you unable to father children?
Of course not.
But his character in the books loved Renly Baratheon and only Renly, right?
He could certainly be matched with someone but there doesn't seem to be enough time for him to just father a child with all that's going on.
nelsonroyale
Member
This makes most sense, but the writers aren't afraid of going on pretty illogical tangents. In my opinion, LF showed himself to be an utter idiot when he sold Sansa to Ramsay. He genuinely didn't know anything about Sansa's reputation, and didn't seem to have a concrete plan beyond that, or even what he was to gain out of it.
I suppose his acting contributes, but he genuinely doesn't seem convincing at all. She would have to be and idiot at this stage to trust him. He is widely known as a slimey character and she has had more first hand experience of it than most. Also, his ambition to become King is rather laughable at this stage, and would pit him against Jon. I could see her seeminly acqiesce and outmaneuvering him. But being jealous of Jon and conspiring with him would diminish her character. It was absolutely right for her at this stage to support Jon. This is a time of war and he is an undead warrior that can inspire those around him and is a genuinely good guy (who she would be an idiot to think she couldnt trust after what has happened). He needs council and she can give that to him.
Of course she could be an idiot and go to Petyr...but I am not seeing how the position of Queen would attract her at all given the current climate and her experiences in KL.
Yeah I don't put any stock at all in extratextual sources. Given we're like four thousand pages and ten-plus years away from this series being done, GRR could change his mind a million time between now and the end. Especially with the show out there, I absolutely expect he'll change a few things he's been planning just for the novelty, even if he never admits as much.
But mostly, keeping up with creator interviews is just *boring*. Why would I take anything Sophie Turner says as valuable? She's closer to GRR than I am, but she's still removed from writers. And that's even if we believe anything she says! HBO doesn't consider far-reaching implications when they put together these Inside the Episode features. Some producer several steps removed from writing staff interviews an actor removed from writing staff in a low-stakes environment in which they're just filling minutes of a featurette runtime.
I don't even want GRR's help to understand his work. I certainly don't need it. He's just as capable of misunderstanding his work as anyone else is.
pretty sure thats all book stuff
I don't think it's possible for an author to misunderstand his own work unless he gets attacked by Alzheimer's. He wrote it.
I'm frankly not a big believer in "Death of the Author".
Plus his pillar and stones probably got roasted to a crisp when he got deepfried storming Dragonstone.
No that's Anguy. He's in both the books and show. He's Beric's really good archer dude but he seems to be a commoner
We have a clear show counterexample, where the director didn't realize that Jaime raped Cersei in the Sept.
He doesn't need to do much. Just stick it in.
This is pretty muddled. Because everyone is saying different things about it.
Personally I don't think D & D intended for it to be rape either but when they realized how it looked after the uproar they had no choice but to claim that it was rape and that it was within Jaime's character to rape someone.
The best entrepreneurs are generally known for one great brand or product that is their legacy, not creating tons and tons of stuff hoping that one sticks. Lineage can be viewed the same way! Once you have a firstborn son, you tend to invest everything into that, and the rest are just extras, you don't think of making more just as further insurance, because you don't want to think about a reality where your children get killed off one after another.
Also keep in mind that kids are a long term investment, ie: > 10 years before they are viable, so in peace time no one would be obsessed with having a huge litter of kids just to "continue the bloodline", but when they get killed off one after another at war time, well it's too late!
Kids don't all live to adulthood and if families get too large then several family members can start staking claims which is why they tend to intermarry within the family every once in a while.
You also have to pay upkeep for your family members if they're not lords and ladies themselves which is why Frey is trying to set his family up with as many lordships as possible. The Twins is too crowded and he wants his children out of there.
So like an example is Lady Amerei Frey who is made the Lady of Darry and brings several family members to live with her and take them out of Lord Frey's hair
This too
John Dunbar
correct about everything
do you people think the show will eventually give some sort of explanation why dany is fireproof, or will it just be left as "eh, it's magic, deal with it."?
HalfBakedProphet
Member
The Hound knows. He was in the throne room when LF betrayed Ned.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
The only characters left who would've been in a position to know that would be Cersei, Tyrion and Varys. Maybe Jaime if Cersei told him later on.
Sansa's best hope for finding out is if Theon ever finds out from Tyrion or Varys.
Exactly. Everything's "muddled". Authorship of a TV show is an especially ephemeral concept. I'm sure that given unlimited time and budget, D&D wouldn't have shipped that trash-tier fight in Dorne last season. But they had to work with the footage they got back from a second unit. D&D have only even directed like two episodes between them?
In this case the author isn't just dead, he never existed. Even simple scenes are a collaboration between a dozen plus people, all of whom may understand it differently.
MedicUnderFire
Neo Member
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Loras is essentially a nobody.
Cersei however, he wanted to make an example out of her, and he didn't want any of the people at the septon to leave
MedicUnderFire
Neo Member
Posted this musing in the other thread as well, That final shot with Cerci on the iron throne, I wonder if next season we'll get a scene were Dany and Tyrion will get to kings landing, fight their way to the iron throne and find Jaime sitting on the throne once again with the "mad queen" dead at his feet. Just like all those years before.
Unfortunately, I feel like this would make more sense with Jaimes character in the books, who I feel is far less in love with Cerci then he used to be.
Unfortunately, I feel like this would make more sense with Jaimes character in the books, who I feel is far less in love with Cerci then he used to be.
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