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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO

What reason would the CoTF have in book lore to invent the others?

I thought the long night had come after the peace had been brokered between the CoTF and the first men.

It would be disappointing imho. I like the idea of them coming from the far north and the land of always winter. I'd love to see more of it in the books and, hopefully, the show.

Book wise itll prolly be(is?) the same, that the children created the others/white walkers to combat the man. But as with all Frankenstein stories, they lost control and there were too many of them, forcing the children and man to team up against them. Then the children help build the wall, they stay on the northern side for reasons, and there you go.

Maybe the Night King is a pure spawn of a man and Other like the legends, which gives him more power and control over the undead, and who caused the children/men to team up? Its a mystery. We will never ever know.
 
I was also impressed that the shots of Dany riding Drogon look pretty convincing. In other shows and even movies this mostly looks crappy, but here it's well done. It's a minor thing but it helps sell the battle.

They've come a long way from

hTf3XfJ.gif
 

Massa

Member
Not to mention, apparently no one in the entire modern history of Dragonstone, found these really well-preserved ancient paintings a five minute stroll from the beach, until Jon Snow happened to stroll through. In the real world, such a place would be both a world-famous archeological site and a popular tourist spot

We all know Westeros is full of archaeologists.
 
The only thing that seemed really silly for me about the episode is how the fuck did Dany and a dothraki army get to the Reach from Dragonstone so fast and unnoticed? I know I should be immune to the logic leaps of the show at this point but somehow this stuff still bothers me.

It seems like the default answer we can basically assume at this point is 'Because it needed to happen'. It's obvious that the condensed seasons are forcing them to dramatically increase the pace of events, logical continuity be damned.
 
We all know Westeros is full of archaeologists.

Wasn't Dragonstone unoccupied when Aegon first flew to it? If there was no one living on the island, maybe no one knew the cave existed.

It seems like the default answer we can basically assume at this point is 'Because it needed to happen'. It's obvious that the condensed seasons are forcing them to dramatically increase the pace of events, logical continuity be damned.

There were closer to, King's Landing not the reach, which Dragonstone is not far from.
 

Moff

Member
The only thing that seemed really silly for me about the episode is how the fuck did Dany and a dothraki army get to the Reach from Dragonstone so fast and unnoticed? I know I should be immune to the logic leaps of the show at this point but somehow this stuff still bothers me.

the battle did not take place in the reach, they are at the blackwater next to kings landing, the gold is already in the city. and that is very close to dragonstone and the place that makes the most sense for dany to ambush them.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
Wasn't Dragonstone unoccupied when Aegon first flew to it? If there was no one living on the island, maybe no one knew the cave existed.

I thought it was a long-term trading outpost for Valyria to do business with the various Westerosi kingdoms, and the Targaryens were the sort of minor noble family who managed it, back pre-Doom. But that's just my vague memory of flipping through the world of ice and fire book.
 
the battle did not take place in the reach, they are at the blackwater next to kings landing, the gold is already in the city. and that is very close to dragonstone and the place that makes the most sense for dany to ambush them.

No. Just... no.

See my post:

Presumably the Lannister caravan was traveling the Roseroad from Highgarden to King's Landing. Since they were supposedly up against the Blackwater Rush at the time of the ambush, they would have been extremely close to King's Landing, since the Roseroad cuts through the Kingswood and meets King's Landing almost right where the Blackwater Rush does. Dany would have had to sail into Blackwater Bay and either sail right up next to KL to meet them, or dock at the mouth of the Wendwater and cut through the Kingswood. She could also have sailed south around Massey's Hook and laid anchor on the coast, but then they would have to cross the Wendwater or go south around it, which makes no sense.

The answer to your question is that she basically would have had to take her army into Blackwater Bay and sail ludicrously close to KL which, you guessed it, makes no fucking sense. Especially since Cersei knows she is on Dragonstone and would have some naval force either prowling or blockading the Gullet between Driftmark and Massey's Hook in the event Dany's army attempted an invasion.

None of it makes sense.
 
I thought it was a long-term trading outpost for Valyria to do business with the various Westerosi kingdoms, and the Targaryens were the sort of minor noble family who managed it, back pre-Doom. But that's just my vague memory of flipping through the world of ice and fire book.

You are correct:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dragonstone

So they probably just didn't think anything of the cave or think to look for it.
 

Moff

Member
No. Just... no.

See my post:

she had more than enough time to land further aways from king's landing. at the start of the episode the Lannister army was still at highgarden. it would take them a long time to get to king's landing with that caravan. I don't see a problem there.
 
Two centuries before the Doom, Valyrians took possession of the island and built a castle upon it, which became the westernmost outpost of the Valyrian Freehold.[1] The castle towers were shaped by Valyrian magic to look like dragons to make the castle look fearsome, and placed a thousand gargoyles upon the walls.[8]

Twelve years prior to the Doom of Valyria, Aenar Targaryen, the head of House Targaryen, relocated his family, their five dragons, and all their wealth to Dragonstone, after his maiden daughter Daenys predicted the destruction of the Valyrian Freehold. In Valyria their rivals saw this as an act of cowardly surrender.[1] Four of the dragons brought from Valyria eventually died on Dragonstone, leaving only Balerion. However, two ‎eggs hatched and Vhagar and Meraxes were born.

Aenar ruled as the first Lord of Dragonstone, and was succeeded by his son, ‎Gaemon "the Glorious". Gaemon's children, ‎Aegon and Elaena, ruled together as kin and a couple, and were succeeded by their own son, Maegon, and later Maegon's younger brother, Aerys. Aerys' three sons, Aelyx, Baelon, and Daemion ruled Dragonstone in turn, after which Daemion's son Aerion inherited the seat. His only son by Lady Valaena Velaryon, Aegon Targaryen, was the last Lord of Dragonstone before Aegon's Conquest.[1]
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dragonstone

It's been occupied for roughly 600 years.
 
she had more than enough time to land further aways from king's landing. at the start of the episode the Lannister army was still at highgarden. it would take them a long time to get to king's landing with that caravan. I don't see a problem there.

You don't see a problem with her having to sail into Blackwater Bay or ambush the Lannister caravan literally within sight of King's Landing?

I tried to explain why the location of the ambush didn't make much sense. I used as much knowledge of the relevant geography as I could to make the point. Not much I can do if you're just going to respond with "NUH UH."
 

Moff

Member
You don't see a problem with her having to sail into Blackwater Bay or ambush the Lannister caravan literally within sight of King's Landing?

I tried to explain why the location of the ambush didn't make much sense. I used as much knowledge of the relevant geography as I could to make the point. Not much I can do if you're just going to respond with "NUH UH."

we were talking about the time it would take dany to get to the caravan, because some people did not hear Tarly talking about kings landing and thought the battle took place in the reach. that was the confusion.

if you think the location is not a good place for an ambush that is another matter. personally I think it makes sense because that is the point dany knows they would certainly be and the people of king's landing can see the dragon show. maybe she also did not have enough time to ambush them further away from king's landing.
if euron is destroying dragonstone in the next episode we know it was not worth it.
 

mantidor

Member
I wonder if I'm the only one who did not see Sansa being jealous of Arya at all? She was worried and shocked, but just that, she never wanted to be a "warrior" anyway, in a funny way both sisters got what they wanted, Sansa knew the ways of court and Kings and queens, Arya knew the ways of warriors and fighters, both learned it was not all that's cracked up to be.


And sure her siblings are all supernatural and stuff but it seems she will be the driving force behind them. It already happened with Jon, he didn't want to do anything after the resurrection but Sansa pushed through.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
she had more than enough time to land further aways from king's landing. at the start of the episode the Lannister army was still at highgarden. it would take them a long time to get to king's landing with that caravan. I don't see a problem there.

Yeah, I just assumed she landed a ways south of King's Landing and then road to hit them on the road outside KL, so the battle probably happened where it could be witnessed from KL but her landing didn't. I guess you could argue the terrain should have been more heavily forested, going by the map, since she's coming out of the Kingswood, but at that point you've exceeded my ability to nitpick.
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
I wonder if I'm the only one who did not see Sansa being jealous of Arya at all? She was worried and shocked, but just that, she never wanted to be a "warrior" anyway, in a funny way both sisters got what they wanted, Sansa knew the ways of court and Kings and queens, Arya knew the ways of warriors and fighters, both learned it was not all that's cracked up to be.


And sure her siblings are all supernatural and stuff but it seems she will be the driving force behind them. It already happened with Jon, he didn't want to do anything after the resurrection but Sansa pushed through.
She reacted to Arya's line to Brienne "You swore to serve both my mother's daughters" and then LF gave her a look.
 
the battle did not take place in the reach, they are at the blackwater next to kings landing, the gold is already in the city. and that is very close to dragonstone and the place that makes the most sense for dany to ambush them.

Yes, I missed that they were already in the Blackwater Rush, but that makes the fact that they came in unnoticed even more stupid.
 

Joni

Member
There was a lot of room for improvement in the 'common sense' department but I had too much fun to care with this episode.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
What reason would the CoTF have in book lore to invent the others?

I thought the long night had come after the peace had been brokered between the CoTF and the first men.

It would be disappointing imho. I like the idea of them coming from the far north and the land of always winter. I'd love to see more of it in the books and, hopefully, the show.

The recorded history isn't necessarily reliable. It was written down long after any of it already happened.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Bahahah nah that just a random name drop now most of gold is buring she won't be able to afford them. God i wish we got Aegon and Golden Company would also make Varys relevant to this show

Tarly specifically mentioned the last of the gold made it through the gates of kings landing. These were the stragglers he wanted to whip.

It was mostly food and probably other spoils, no gold.
 

Gigglepoo

Member
Tarly specifically mentioned the last of the gold made it through the gates of kings landing. These were the stragglers he wanted to whip.

It was mostly food and probably other spoils, no gold.

How did I miss this? It's pretty huge that Cercei can pay off her debts and get another loan. Plus, the Westerosi now think Dany is monstrous.
 

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
How did I miss this? It's pretty huge that Cercei can pay off her debts and get another loan. Plus, the Westerosi now think Dany is monstrous.

Oh yeah, the miraculously paid off loans. Did that bother anyone else or was I just being persnickety?
 
Yeah Dany burning the food wagons is definitely going to be a plot point. They showed a LOT of wagons getting blown up, and it honestly looked like she was targeting them at times. It's certainly not going to endear her to anyone, it's basically a war crime to destroy food when winter is coming even by westerosi standards.
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Yeah Dany burning the food wagons is definitely going to be a plot point. They showed a LOT of wagons getting blown up, and it honestly looked like she was targeting them at times. It's certainly not going to endear her to anyone, it's basically a war crime to destroy food when winter is coming even by westerosi standards.
Targeting all of them...except the one with the dragon killing weapon.
 
Unused scene left on the cutting room floor:

Jon shows Dany the paintings left by the Children of the Forest.

"See? They worked together against the common foe"

Dany nods, as if in awe of this sight.

"Hey! Wait a minute. This paint is still wet."

Jon runs away.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
I mean, do we have any real sense of like marching times from place to place even in the books? I don't really remember. Could it just be that the world of westeros, etc, just isn't really that big?
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
I mean, do we have any real sense of like marching times from place to place even in the books? I don't really remember. Could it just be that the world of westeros, etc, just isn't really that big?

Not precisely, but George was always careful to space out chapters so that stuff that should last longer in-universe doesn't happen too soon from the reader's perspective.

That and you have storylines like Arya's, in which characters take entire books to go from point A to point B in the same continent.
 
I mean, do we have any real sense of like marching times from place to place even in the books? I don't really remember. Could it just be that the world of westeros, etc, just isn't really that big?

Definitely. Stannis' march to Winterfell from the wall, Dany's trek across the red wastes and slaver's bay, Arya going all over the damn place in ACOK, Brienne's riverlands sojourns, Robb's army's movements (as well as the other armies), and on and on. Martin cares a great deal about internal consistency.
 
I don't see how Tyrion is responsible for Highgarden inexplicably not having an army.

They had one at some point though...didn't they?

I mean, didn't house Tyrell show up with an army to confront the high sparrow, until the king came out onto the steps and decreed the sparrow was cool?
 

Gigglepoo

Member
I mean, do we have any real sense of like marching times from place to place even in the books? I don't really remember. Could it just be that the world of westeros, etc, just isn't really that big?

There are rough estimates but Martin isn't always consistent. Like, Ned's travels during Robert's Rebellion doesn't really add up without a teleporter. But it still takes about a month to travel from King's Landing to Winterfell, for instance.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Honestly, we just gotta get over this expeditious travel issue now.

It's just going to be that way. No satisfactory explanation is forthcoming.

It wouldn't bother me as much if they weren't using these breakneck-speed travels as plot devices. How is the fact that Euron's fleet can be at both sides of the continent at roughly the same time Tyrion's failure?
 
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