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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO

Burt

Member
So Cersei isn't going to give two shits about a with because

1. She's Cersei
2. Mountain is already dead, so this should be nothing new?

Pretty much. I'm not one to buy into the idea of Cersei sitting down at a table and parleying with the Night King, but she'd let the him kill everyone north of King's Landing and worry about the army of dead afterwards before she would work with any of them.

Jon not getting this is understandable, and the same could be stretched for Danaerys, but Varys and Tyrion thinking that this is a good idea - for Tyrion to be the one to think it up when he knows Cersei better than any of them - is miles beyond 'Tyrion's an idiot because he's demonstrably terrible at war'.
 

jfkgoblue

Member
Man I hope the sword the morning was not a throw away book nod and we get to see it again.

I will forever hold on to Jon being the son of Ashara Dayne and the sword of the morning will be light bringer.
Jon's parentage has been established, and considering that D&D's answer to who are Jon's parents satisfied GRRM, I bet it is the same in the books.
 
Jon's parentage has been established, and considering that D&D's answer to who are Jon's parents satisfied GRRM, I bet it is the same in the books.

Well if we never get the books I'll write my own fan fiction with Jon Dayne.

Also there will be hookers

and black jack

TO HELL WITH THE FANFICTION
 
Dragonstone > King's Landing > Dragonstone in one episode is officialy driving me nuts. Really ... fuck that.

Almost as much as the rushing the series to an end does. For the record, I love this season. I really enjoy it. I just don't get why they couldn't go "Ok, from now on the show is no longer book cannon and will run indefinitely" after season 5. Instead they're rushing something that's doing great ratings, money and all that to an end. One big event to the next big event to the next big event.I just don't get it.

Because they don't want to make the mistake that GRRM made in books 4 and 5. Prolong the story with little payoff and largely boring details.

I agree that it feels rushed but I will take this any day over the shit we had to read through the last two books.
 

Gigglepoo

Member
Jon not getting this is understandable, and the same could be stretched for Danaerys, but Varys and Tyrion thinking that this is a good idea - for Tyrion to be the one to think it up when he knows Cersei better than any of them - is miles beyond 'Tyrion's an idiot because he's demonstrably terrible at war'.

Tyrion doesn't understand people at all. Remember when he said the Unsullied would mop the floor with the Lannister soldiers because one side cared and the other didn't? One episode later we saw Lannister soldiers stand up against a fucking dragon. A dragon! Never trust a damn thing Tyrion says. He's never right.
 

Magnus

Member
7 or 8 seasons is a long time for any show - especially one this enormous - to keep running. Majority of the cast/crew probably want to (or have to) move on to other things, and many are probably only signed for X number of seasons each. Keeping it going in perpetuity wouldn't be great.
 

T8SC

Member
I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere in this thread since Season 7 started but, does anyone find this season to be massively rushed?

Tyrion was on the beach and two minutes later talking to Jamie.

So within that two minutes he found Bronn, somehow, then persuaded Bronn not to kill him, then persuaded him to take him to Jamie and find a secret location to meet. Then Bronn had to find Jamie and take him to that meeting location.

All within about two minutes.

In past seasons it's taken multiple episodes for a character to move around, yet in this episode Jon basically teleported from Dragonstone to The Wall.
 

Gigglepoo

Member
7 or 8 seasons is a long time for any show - especially one this enormous - to keep running. Majority of the cast/crew probably want to (or have to) move on to other things, and many are probably only signed for X number of seasons each. Keeping it going in perpetuity wouldn't be great.

I just wish D&D had thought far enough ahead to keep the same pacing and storytelling through a 70-episode run. But they couldn't and now they're rushing to finish this thing. Just feels sloppy (even though it's often fun!) without the care that was present from the beginning.
 

mcfrank

Member
I had a lot of problems with last nights episode, such as Tyrion thinking for 1 minute that Cersei will care about seeing a Wight and change her plans. He knows her better than that. But, this complaining about travel time has got to stop. It is so tired. There are two options:

1.) The show can assume you are a smart person who can figure out that traveling along the map it has been showing you at the start of every episode takes time. This allows it to move the narrative forward and not have boring episodes. (It also gives hints such as Little Sam getting older, Cersei knowing she is preggers only an episode after Jamie left implying it is around a month or two later, etc)

2.) The show can have boring travel episodes where we dont see Jon for 3 weeks because he is on a boat between Dragonstone and Winterfell.

Which do you want? I choose number 1. The books even start with a disclaimer that time is inconsistent in this narrative.
 

Paganmoon

Member
When Arya confronts Sansa, Bran will swoop in and expose Littlefinger. Transparant as fuck.

Nah, Bran's superpower is knowing everything, but his weakness is that he can't actually tell important information.
He'll probably mention some horrifying memory of Arya's this time, like how beautiful she looked as she watched their father get beheaded or something.
 
Not sure what the issue is. Dragonstone is not far from King's Landing at all.
Might be, but it comes a bit across like characters just going back and forth on some fetch quests.

wait, they wanna get a white walker? I tought they going to hunt down a wight?!
There is a difference?

Randomly encountering dire wolves that you can telepathically communicate with is pretty nuts. Way out there, even for a fantasy book.

Very easy to criticize D&D.
Those things didn't all happen at once though. My issue is more the pacing of things and how things don't feel like it has been thought about anymore. Let's travel to the other side of the continent, to get a monster with out band of super heroes, then transport it back somehow. It's pretty out there for the world they have built. And all this within an episode because we need to finish the story.

I still like watching it, but I can't help but to feel rushed all the way through at the moment.
 
The Night King is a White Walker. His reanimated undead followers are wights.
Ah, ok. Been a while since I read the books and don't remember it being mentioned on the show. Thought there were all called the same, but the the dudes on the horses and such being their leaders, with the king on top.

You don't read much fantasy do you?
A lot actually, but most have a built up to these things. Maybe it's the lack of conversations and planning they seem to have this season that contribute to this. But we have gone from what at least felt like people planning out there moves, to them deciding these things within a minute and then also being there. Just a weak episode, hope the follow up of their travels beyond the wall is better and they don't catch one within the next episode and back to King's Landing with it.
 

Jetman

Member
They're a lot more interesting in the books imho.

Maybe it's that we come across them a lot less. They laugh and communicate which we haven't seen in the show. I really hope we see the lands of always winter some more.


Wait, what? Which book and scene is this? At Craster's Keep?
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It makes me laugh that basically all of Daenerys's interactions with Jon are being hardcore tsundere.

"I-i-i-it's not like I Ilke you or anything! I just want you to bend the knee, that's all!" *blush*

"It's not like I'm w-w-w-orried about you ranging beyond the wall! I just need the North to bend the knee!" *blushes furiously*
 
The Suicide Squad isn't going to catch a wight, they're going to get a full-fledged white walker.

And that white walker is going to take control of the Mountain during the summit of the two queens.


christ-pratt-oh-snap-gif.gif


That would be wild but the "main" undead generals arnt really on the same level as the scrub ones
 

gspec

Member
It makes me laugh that basically all of Daenerys's interactions with Jon are being hardcore tsundere.

"I-i-i-it's not like I Ilke you or anything! I just want you to bend the knee, that's all!" *blush*

"It's not like I'm w-w-w-orried about you ranging beyond the wall! I just need the North to bend the knee!" *blushes furiously*

Is bend the knee code word for something else?
 

a916

Member
So the reason Sam took the Tarly sword was more to do with getting it away from his soon to be dead dad and less to do with him researching the sword?
 

Rixxan

Member
7 or 8 seasons is a long time for any show - especially one this enormous - to keep running. Majority of the cast/crew probably want to (or have to) move on to other things, and many are probably only signed for X number of seasons each. Keeping it going in perpetuity wouldn't be great.

I rarely hear criticisms itt tempered with actual real life constraints. Though to be fair a viewer shouldn't necessarily have to consider those when levying criticism.

Still though, It all comes down to D&D are full blown hacks, not:

- Budget (more so in earlier seasons than now, but still)
- Actors schedules, health, pay scale
- Filming across multiple continents
- Filming time constraints
- Post time constraints
- Running time constraints
- Basic human burn-out

Yes every show has these challenges, but never before on this scale.

You rarely see people in the industry shit on GOT, because having perspective and an understanding as to what it takes to craft this behemoth really does wonders to curb petulance.

Now that being said I'm not defending this past episode - plenty of moments could have been more deftly handled despite the above - But I'm really exhausted by no perspective negativity
 

jett

D-Member
Why do they insist on making Jon's resurrection secret? I don't get it.

I just wish D&D had thought far enough ahead to keep the same pacing and storytelling through a 70-episode run. But they couldn't and now they're rushing to finish this thing. Just feels sloppy (even though it's often fun!) without the care that was present from the beginning.

It's hard to think far ahead when you have the sweet comfort of strong source material. Having nothing makes things immensely difficult for a show of this scope, working with characters and plotlines that aren't of your making. When I think about it, I sympathize with D&D. They're good enough showrunners to make a decent adaptation of ASOIAF, but they aren't good enough writers to continue where GRRM left off. That's a tall fucking task for anyone. And on top of that they're pressed for time, as they (and their other writers) have a limited amount of time to get the scripts out so that the Game of Thrones production machine continues. They're doing the best they can, if nothing else the show remains entertaining. They're making the right choice in ending the show somewhat quickly, stretching the show in its current state longer than necessary could be really awful, not just in a nitpicky kind of way.

I'll continue making fun of D&D's decisions of course. :p
 

Gigglepoo

Member
So the reason Sam took the Tarly sword was more to do with getting it away from his soon to be dead dad and less to do with him researching the sword?

Now the good guys have another VS sword. And luckily his dad never noticed a priceless heirloom was stolen!
 

Sony

Nintendo
I think they're keeping John's death under wraps because its reveal will prevent him from having a claim in the Iron Throne.
 

Neece

Member
I rarely hear criticisms itt tempered with actual real life constraints. Though to be fair a viewer shouldn't necessarily have to consider those when levying criticism.

Still though, It all comes down to D&D are full blown hacks, not:

- Budget (more so in earlier seasons than now, but still)
- Actors schedules, health, pay scale
- Filming across multiple continents
- Filming time constraints
- Post time constraints
- Running time constraints
- Basic human burn-out

Yes every show has these challenges, but never before on this scale.

You rarely see people in the industry shit on GOT, because having perspective and an understanding as to what it takes to craft this behemoth really does wonders to curb petulance.

Now that being said I'm not defending this past episode - plenty of moments could have been more deftly handled despite the above - But I'm really exhausted by no perspective negativity

I do tend to take that into consideration when I criticize.

Like, Jaimie was my favorite character in the series. Truly, he was the character that made me feel this show was special, and why I started to read the books. And it's a reflection of their shitty writing for him that I can no longer call him my favorite character, I don't really even have one anymore.

He should have broken from Cersei a long time ago. BUT. I do realize that filming for a TV show is different than writing a book, and for the TV shows needs, they had to keep Jaimie in King's Landing somehow. Otherwise Cersei would be the only top billed star in that region, and would have no other character the audience cared about to interact with post season 6. No more Littlefinger, Olenna, Margaery, Tyrion, Tywin, Joffrey. It's just Cersei. And they needed someone to be her counterpart on screen after she became queen, and it couldn't just be Qyburn and the Mountain.

They could have tried to build Kevan up more and not have him killed off, or introduce more lords at court, or have Cersei interacting with the smallfolk but that would involve more budget, and beyond that, the task of trying to make fans care about characters that don't matter during the final stretch of episodes.

Jaimie is one of their top paid actors, so it was in their best interest to manufacture a way for him to stay in the King's Landing scenes for as long as possible to keep Cersei paired with another actor to produce scenes with. And for them to justify having King's Landing scenes at all, which I'm sure cost a lot to produce, rent, etc.

It doesn't take away my criticism, as I still hate how Jaimie has treaded water as a character (and don't get me started on the rape scene), but conceptually I understand why they made the decision to stray from the books and delay his redemption/break from Cersei.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
People complaining about the time jumps need to understand that if they moved at real time pace, the threat of white walkers wouldn't be so front and centre. in times of conflict, time is of essence, not the depth of words.

so many major characters are together, so how would you fill the gaps now? most of the other major characters are dead.

they'd have to add characters to fill in the gap by the circumstances or really unnecessary stories.

it's unfortunate but everyone knew it was going to happen eventually.
 

Dany

Banned
So much convenience is occuring in the show to wrap it up coherently. And half of it is good, the other half is trash.

I understand they feel the pressure to bring all 50 characters back together again, but the pace it's happening is kinda stark. I am enjoying this season a whole fucking lot. Things I've been hoping the books to do and for the show to finally get to are happening, albeit not in the best manner.

1. How does tyrion know Jamie lives after drogon attacks?
2. Bringing a wight/white walker to Cersie sounds fucking dumb.
 

Violet_0

Banned
there would be far less complaining about instant travelling if they showed a little Indiana Jones-esque map sequence each time someone goes from one place to another
 

Gigglepoo

Member
It's funny how uneven this show has become. My biggest complaint with The Spoils of War was calling that awesome battle Loot Train or whatever. Everything else was pretty rad (even the Arya/Brienne fight).

And then Eastwatch had almost nothing good. The show is at its best when I don't have to think about character motivations or narrative consistency and can just turn off my brain when there are dragons.
 

Daedardus

Member
Man I hope the sword the morning was not a throw away book nod and we get to see it again.

I will forever hold on to Jon being the son of Ashara Dayne and the sword of the morning will be light bringer.

She will still play a slight role in the story since her brother Arthur was Rhaegar's best friend and got killed by Ned during the storming of the tower, which was most likely the reason she commited suicide, since the whole rebellion was all for nothing and killed all her close people in life. That's the reason she was alluded to being Jon's mother, she probably knew what was going on the whole time.
 

LordKasual

Banned
It makes me laugh that basically all of Daenerys's interactions with Jon are being hardcore tsundere.

"I-i-i-it's not like I Ilke you or anything! I just want you to bend the knee, that's all!" *blush*

"It's not like I'm w-w-w-orried about you ranging beyond the wall! I just need the North to bend the knee!" *blushes furiously*

stop.

And Dany has really done very little to hide her attraction towards Jon
 
Randomly encountering dire wolves that you can telepathically communicate with is pretty nuts. Way out there, even for a fantasy book.

Very easy to criticize D&D.

Actually, people think that in the books that the encounter was no coincidence, but that Bloodraven sent the mother direwolf to the Starks.

And the Starks can warg animals that are not the direwolves. See Arya warging cats in Braavos.
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
Well I am less disgusted at the latter than the former.

Brothers and sisters being together is just vomit inducing.

Jon and Dany being related... well... it's not ideal but not that sickening!

edit: I'm not saying aunty/nephew love is good. It isn't. Though for some reason I'm ignoring it when I see Jon and Dany on the screen lol.
 
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