When did I say they should wait for the books? D&D knew the actors were only going to stay for so long. This isn't new information. Heck, there are 3 more episodes (73 vs 70) than they expected to do. If they don't have enough time, that's all on them. Why absolve them of their own decisions?
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
When did I say they should wait for the books? D&D knew the actors were only going to stay for so long. This isn't new information. Heck, there are 3 more episodes (73 vs 70) than they expected to do. If they don't have enough time, that's all on them. Why absolve them of their own decisions?
Using plot contrivances to justify it doesn't make it any less fan service.
Absolve what? They are tying up lose ends before the show ends?
Then let's call every little detail that fans like fan service.
From Tyrion's escapades, Jamie, Jon, Dothraki, Tommund etc etc Why stop at what you think is fan service?
Arya thinks Sansa wants to rule the north over Jon.
For rushing? You already admitted they were rushing through (which is why you provided excuses for why they were doing so). I'm pointing out that they made the choice to rush.
Okay, what would you have them do? Spend 7 episodes getting from point A to B? They made the choice to get to the conclusion of the series not rush. The writers also specifically said that after the first 2 season they stopped trying to match up whatever timelines were going on since it wasn't practical. They aren't occurring simultaneously + there are few characters in play than seasons past = to what we have.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
you know your nobody-wins/everyone-dies shtick is getting old when literally anything that seems like a good outcome is labeled and derided as "fan service."
GRRM's only play is to now turn these grim cliches upside down.
GRRM's only play is to now turn these grim cliches upside down.
ClosingADoor
Member
So they got the dream team together to get a White Walker and then somehow get him to King's Landing. This stuff is getting pretty out there even for a fantasy show.
cj_iwakura
Member
Yeah, I expected this battle to be a last stand, not walking into a suicide mission.
Remember when there used to be scenes where people spoke like real people? Where they connected on a human level? That's all gone now. We go from major plot point to major plot point and anything that doesn't tie into the endgame is cut. That's not the storytelling the show was once built on. There used to be time to talk about a brother dying but now there's no time so Rickon is forgotten.
This isn't about showing a boat floating across the narrow sea, it's about showing things down so these characters feel like people again.
Latvian Hitman
Member
They've written themselves into so many corners over the last 2+ seasons that they finally just had to throw their arms up and say, "Fuck it, let's just put the petal to the metal and plow through this fucker, logic be damned!"
I mean, you can try to explain it away as the show runners simply tying up loose ends, but sloppy writing is what got them here, and they've just doubled down on it as they've moved forward. I don't even know who the majority of these characters are anymore, and what little I do know is based on foundations that were laid in the first 3 or 4 seasons.
The show is still fun, in a schlocky, True Blood kinda' way, but it's badly devolved from its early seasons. It's gone from compelling character drama to, as Ian McShane correctly pointed out, little more than just tits and dragons.
Agreed. It's also the only time we see two-handed unchained Jaime or Ned fight. Jaime would have wiped the floor with him, but it seemed to me (even before I read the books) that he was kind of toying with Ned.
Yeah a lot of the drama in the show would be resolved if the characters actually talked to each other. But conversations that you imagine would happen, just never usually happen.
Both Sansa and Arya told each other that they had long stories, and you would assume that at some point since coming back, they decided to share those stories with each other. And Sansa would have revealed that she was held hostage in King's Landing, and how terrible the Lannisters treated her. Especially since Arya has talked about killing Lannisters on her list, and they could have bonded over that, thus shutting out any attempt by Littlefinger to make Sansa look like a Lannister sympathizer.
But the way it's played, it's as if Sansa and Arya never spoke to each other beyond a few sentences since she returned. This has happened a lot since season 5, conversations not occurring in the weeks, months that characters have been around each other.
I'm still miffed that Meera and Sansa never had a scene together to talk about their fathers, their dead brothers, and a scene where Sansa could have honored Meera before the lords for being a hero and returning a Stark back to Winterfell.
Could only image a world where WoW had come out before these recent seasons having been filmed. Even if ADOS was coming out after S8, you would still have Martin's guiding hand taking to almost the end. Maybe HBO would have pushed D and D to make more episodes. But we'll never know cause WoW is teetering on barely coming out in 2018.
you have to admit that, when Jon's, Jorah's and the Hound's arcs converge for a season-final epic quest, and they even bring back Gendry for this, it comes across as fan service
and I really don't mind, it's fun seeing all those character together on the screen and interacting with each other. GoT isn't exactly the smartest show, the least they could do is entertain me
Latvian Hitman
Member
The way I always interpreted that scene was that Jaime kind of intended to toy with him, but was a bit surprised by a few of the moves Ned showed off and had to start taking him more seriously right before Ned took a spear to the leg from behind. I thought the scene did a good job of revealing useful things about both characters. Jaime was a fantastic swordsman and he knew it, and Ned was salty and had a knack for hanging around in fights against superior swordsmen.
I don't want everyone to die, I just want consequences. If Jamie charges a dragon with a spear, there should be consequences, Instead, no one got hurt, no one's opinion was changed, and his heroic charge didn't matter. That's bad storytelling. Make their actions matter.
Ocarina_117
Banned
I've brought this up before and thinking of the hardhome final scene made me ponder it more.
How brilliant would that scene have looked if the Night King was more in line with a Other from the book. We have this ethereal, elf like, creature are pure as ice raising his arms and raising hundreds of grotesque undead beings from the ground.
Ice elves > Ice orcs.
How brilliant would that scene have looked if the Night King was more in line with a Other from the book. We have this ethereal, elf like, creature are pure as ice raising his arms and raising hundreds of grotesque undead beings from the ground.
Ice elves > Ice orcs.
ClosingADoor
Member
I wouldn't mind it, if their stories actually came to that point in a way that was actually making sense. But instead you got Davos randomly picking up Gendry - even making a joke about him still rowing -, then meeting them up with Jon and going "well, our fathers were bros, we should too", having a 30 second conversation about how we are all on the same side and then heading out. It's just too much for one episode to do it like that.
This. The dude sunk into a lake with armor on and Bronn just... dragged him out no problem? That is one hell of a swimmer.
They need a good blacksmith so Davos thought of Gendry.
I like this shit. Service or not
badcrumble
Member
The Book Others are basically transparent, right? Villains made out of high-end perfect hipster cocktail ice. much cooler aesthetic (and also, though i seriously doubt the books will give them the same origin story as the show, much more plausibly a weapon created by the children of the forest - something terrible *and* beautiful)
Ocarina_117
Banned
They're a lot more interesting in the books imho.
Maybe it's that we come across them a lot less. They laugh and communicate which we haven't seen in the show. I really hope we see the lands of always winter some more.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
well, that's a Tyrion plan for you.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
IIRC at least in the books Jon is around eight months older but yeah, pretty much.
Dragonstone > King's Landing > Dragonstone in one episode is officialy driving me nuts. Really ... fuck that.
Almost as much as the rushing the series to an end does. For the record, I love this season. I really enjoy it. I just don't get why they couldn't go "Ok, from now on the show is no longer book cannon and will run indefinitely" after season 5. Instead they're rushing something that's doing great ratings, money and all that to an end. One big event to the next big event to the next big event.I just don't get it.
Almost as much as the rushing the series to an end does. For the record, I love this season. I really enjoy it. I just don't get why they couldn't go "Ok, from now on the show is no longer book cannon and will run indefinitely" after season 5. Instead they're rushing something that's doing great ratings, money and all that to an end. One big event to the next big event to the next big event.I just don't get it.
Not sure what the issue is. Dragonstone is not far from King's Landing at all.
Jaime went from winning the war to trying to convince Cersei to sue for peace. His opinion changed.
That round trip is way shorter than Dragonstone -> Eastwatch at least.
They're like next door to each other. Dany's not blowing up King's Landing because she's conscious of her optics. Cersei is leaving Dragonstone alone because??? I guess it's kind of hard to land troops on an island full of Dothraki and guarded by dragons (not that she took the dragons as a credible threat).
Seemed like his opinion changed before he charged Dany and that was just a desperate attempt to end things. He only charged because he knew the war was hopeless otherwise. He says as much to Bronn.
broncobuster
Banned
I'm just assuming not all scenes/timelines are synced up. Which is a stretch but it's the only way it makes sense to me.
Admiral Woofington
Member
They're still doing a poor job at showing it then.
Because Jaime got out of the water and nobody was there, was able to escape, get back home and then receive Tyrion is what is assumed to be not much time. Not to mention Tyrion knowing he's alive
The writers basically said this.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/06/got-writer-explains-travel-time-inconsistencies.html
This was last year. Basically saying, "aint nobody got time to write episodes of dialogue" when the series is ending. You can look for more character conversations in the books (which is actually a smart idea since they aren't out) FYI i think this might have been there agreement with martin. He has plenty of story to tell now if need be.
So your complaint is that this television show visually dramatized a character's emotional state?
Maybe not that far, but a round trip is around the same as Winterfell>Wall. Imagine that happening in the span of three scenes in episode1.
Yeah and it was like bronn swam with him underwater or some shit for like at least several thousand yards from where they went in.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Something I'm trying to address from past discussions. If you look at Dawn, you can see it is more "milkglass" type silver than your typical castle forged sword.
Here's Ser Arthur with his stunt double - aka the Night King.
Something that never happened on the show.
Cersei and Jaime went from King's Landing to Winterfell in a single scene in the first episode.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
I don't know if this was posted here but I haven't laughed like this in a long time. This guy will never finish those books.
omg got me lol
Gotdamn, Bob.
Savage. Rekt
m_shortpants
Member
So Cersei isn't going to give two shits about a with because
1. She's Cersei
2. Mountain is already dead, so this should be nothing new?
1. She's Cersei
2. Mountain is already dead, so this should be nothing new?
But nothing else was going on during that time. There was one plot: Robert and company are going to Winterfell. If at the same time they show like three days passing at another location then it would be like what's happening now.
Um, no? My complaint is that there should be consequences for his action. There aren't any. He wasn't hurt, Bronn wasn't hurt, Dany wasn't hurt, no one changed sides, no one was captured, Tyrion didn't care. Nothing happened. It was a cool moment without any lasting impact.
wait, they wanna get a white walker? I tought they going to hunt down a wight?!
Point taken, but you should know exactly what I meant. They are being introduced and later show up in Winterfell. In that case I could buy the "Different things happen at different times" stuff they said.
This isn't the case with Tyrion and Dany and everyone else right now. Battles are being fought while Dany uses her Dragons to travel in real time like they're some kind of airplane. It's war time.
So again, what I meant with the wall comparison is this: Jon having 5 scenes in Winterfell, then traveling to the Wall, then having 5 scenes there and answering a raven from WInterfell about Bran would be silly. Because all of that would've had to happen around the same time.
H.Cornerstone
Member
It's a little less, but a ship can get there and back in a day considering White harbor-> KL by ship takes less than a week.
brownfedora
Member
Randomly encountering dire wolves that you can telepathically communicate with is pretty nuts. Way out there, even for a fantasy book.
Very easy to criticize D&D.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Man I hope the sword the morning was not a throw away book nod and we get to see it again.
I will forever hold on to Jon being the son of Ashara Dayne and the sword of the morning will be light bringer.
I will forever hold on to Jon being the son of Ashara Dayne and the sword of the morning will be light bringer.