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[bratpack]

I hope both those things are exaggerations. I know the latter one is.

Reading the reviews it seems pretty much everyone is having the same qualms as those expressed in this thread, so it doesn't seem a very outlandish viewpoint to have that this episode wasn't A-class.



Basically the same viewers that forgive TWD because ZOMBIES OMG ZOMBIES.

they were there for at least a day why couldn't a raven reach dany in a matter of hours then she arrives in a matter of hours? it's not the worst thing in the world for a fantasy tv show to do i think people are being too harsh

as for arriving in the nick of time with the Dragon well nearly everything thing uses that
GOT is no exception

 

[MisterR]

I don't want to end up sounding snobby or arrogant here, but I fully believe a lot of people just watched the episode and saw a lot of firebreathing and sword fighting and that's all that was required to call it amazing.

Let's be honest, for a lot of people the show is just tits and dragons. As long as there are dragons flying around doing cool shit, they're gonna be happy with it. Most of the non book readers never really understood a lot of what was going on anyway with the deeper parts of the plot.

 

[Sadist]

Well that was something; I think this is the first time this season where the timeframe/telport bothered me. I know they want to wrap it up, but in regards to earlier seasons its going a bit too fast though. Still, I enjoyed some things about this ep.

- Tormund is one of the funniest dudes on the show. "Walking is good, fighting is better, fucking is best." "But there isn't a woman within 100 miles from us" "Guess we'll have to work with what we got, eh?" The look on Gendry's face was amazing. Plus, Hound asking him how he survived this long for being an idiot his reply "I'm just good at killing things" made me chuckle.

- Hound, you're a dumb cunt yourself. Why, WHY would you throw multiple rocks at a moment like that? Well he gets bonus points for saving Tormund.

- Game of Plotarmour; I mean, I knew they wouldn't kill of Jon, but come on, out of nowhere Benjen appears? Everybody jokingly predicted this, but I never thought they would go through with it.

- Same with Zombie Dragon. Ru-oh. I mean, how the fuck could Jon be this stupid? Better yet, the Night King was standing there; just burn the dummy down with dragonfire. Oh well.

- Btw, Sansa, Arya... really? You both know Little Finger could be playing you and you still are at each others throat? I refuse to believe they're this dumb. If they are this dumb, I blame the writers. But secretly I'm still expecting Sansa and Arya standing over Little Finger's body by next week, because they played him. If not, they totally wasted the Stark sisters.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

Gerald the Defective Wight, he can't even die properly (again).

Just like Elder Scrolls, cant kill quest npcs

You guys made me laugh out loud twice at work

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Hm. Episode was less than the sum of its parts. Should have been one of the better episodes in recent seasons, but it just didn't gel for me. It's too obvious that the writers are constantly headed for tentpoles and they're just not doing a good job of finding creative ways to get to them, so instead they're just slamming their foot on the gas and running them the fuck over.

 

[Violet_0]

I think it's more and more likely that Westeros is actually the size of Great Britain, not the Americas

 

[jviggy43]

Everybody I know IRL: "Holy shit dude. Westworld is such an amazing show. Did you see what Sheldon did on BBT yesterday?"

Lmao. At least two separate group of friends of mine jumped ship on west world. But pretty much this.

He seemed to be pretty chill and in control of the situation like he knew what he was doing. All according to keikaku.

Sure but again, why did he not immediately down all of the dragons the second they arrived rather than stand there watching them escape first?

 

[bodyofanamerican]

It's almost as if NK somehow knew Dany would come to the rescue and used them as bait to get himself a dragon, hmmmm.

There could also be a reason he went specifically for Viserion vs. Drogon who was just sitting there picking everyone up. Hell, you could make the case that the 2nd spear was just a pot-shot to scare them. But again, it'd be nice if any of this was explained.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Biggest issue I had is yeah with 3 dragons breathing fire everywhere they manage to somehow not even attempt to blast the night king with it. Honestly the Gendry marathon I was OK with, I took it as they were only a days hike out of eastwatch.

The other issue of NK not killing Drogon I actually took as he didn't want to kill Dany or Jon because he knows they are still fighting a civil war and wants them to kill as many southerners as possible before he rolls in.


Edit ^ yeah I forgot about the second spear. OK overall just bad writing, and this whole nonsense of grabbing a wight to convince cersei is dumb as hell in the first place.

 

[Skilletor]

Everybody I know IRL: HOLY SHIT, DID YOU SEE THAT LAST NIGHT? It's all paying off omg!

Neogaf: Worst episode ever! What trash!

Everyone I know IRL: Fast and the Furious was one of the best movies I've seen all year! OMG FAMILY!

 

[duckroll]

Everyone I know IRL: Fast and the Furious was one of the best movies I've seen all year! OMG FAMILY!

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_fate_of_the_furious

Over 150 critics liked it. Checks out.

 

[Mr Git]

Considering how many creatures the WW have reanimated it was only a matter of time before they got a zombie dragon. Still sad to see one go down though :c Zombie dragon friendly fire is gonna be a bit of an issue mind

 

[Majmun]

I actually expected Ghost to show up and save Jon. Not Benjen.

Wait, is Ghost still alive? I'm kinda confused now.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Considering how many creatures the WW have reanimated it was only a matter of time before they got a zombie dragon. Still sad to see one go down though :c Zombie dragon friendly fire is gonna be a bit of an issue mind

Obviously they gonna melt the wall using a dragon, which I bet honestly does happen in the books too.

 

[Majmun]

Obviously they gonna melt the wall using a dragon, which I bet honestly does happen in the books too.

Didn't the book have a magical horn that can tear down the Wall?

 

[Aiii]

I actually expected Ghost to show up and save Jon. Not Benjen.

Wait, is Ghost still alive? I'm kinda confused now.

I'm sure they'll lampshade in the second to last episode.

 

[Violet_0]

Considering how many creatures the WW have reanimated it was only a matter of time before they got a zombie dragon. Still sad to see one go down though :c Zombie dragon friendly fire is gonna be a bit of an issue mind

I'll be disappointed if he doesn't have an ice breath attack
I think half the thread predicted the zombie dragon over the years

 

[ZOONAMI]

Didn't the book have a magical horn that can tear down the Wall?

Yeah but we don't know if it actually would do that. Doesn't Euron have it? I think more likely it's just a horn.

 

[The Greek Freak]

I'm really glad I accepted that the show would be 2 parts LOL level trash for every good part.

The random guys that aren't even seen in the background who exist simply to die to Wights is fucking hilariously bad.

The show's writing is so half assed they couldn't even bother building or using secondary characters as death fodder. It's like they write each episode and then the next one in order instead of thinking of any kind of arc.

Also LOL at Tyrion being fucking worthless all season, what a waste.

 

[Faddy]

Didn't the book have a magical horn that can tear down the Wall?

Magic horns are fucking dumb.

 

[Paches]

Didn't the book have a magical horn that can tear down the Wall?

Well there are also mind controlling dragon horns, so why can't one bring down a wall.

 

[Sadist]

Magic horns are fucking dumb.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I'll be disappointed if he doesn't have an ice breath attack
I think half the thread predicted the zombie dragon over the years

Okay, glad I wasn't the only person who thought this the second it happened

 

[barit]

Didn't the book have a magical horn that can tear down the Wall?

Yes but it was fake and got destroyed in the big battle at the Wall iirc

 

[Faddy]

I don't know why D&D invite all this criticism with using people and ravens to send messages. They should use magic. Assuming Jon is going to ride a dragon....they should have had a Jon/Rhaegal scene when he was petting Drogon, like Rhaegal swoops in jealous and shit.

Then instead of sending Gendry running to Eastwatch and sending a raven to Dany for her to fly north.

Jon gets in trouble. Cut to Dragonstone, Dany, Tyrion with 3 dragons discuss plans. Rhaegal suddenly flies off North, Dany infers it is like when Drogon rescued her at the fighting pit, decides she will go north with Drogon and Viserion to help.

 

[Cornballer]

Reviews:
- Onion A|V Club
- Sepinwall
- Rolling Stone
- Alyssa Rosenberg
- NY Times
- The Atlantic
- Vox
- The Ringer

Interviews:
- EW: Emilia Clarke on Daenerys' 'heartbreaking' loss
- EW: Paul Kaye (Thoros of Myr)
- EW: Game of Thrones stars explain that deadly Sansa vs. Arya tension
- Deadline: ‘Game Of Thrones' Director On Tonight's Game Changing Icy Episode & Season 8
- Irish Times: Rory McCann interview from a few weeks ago
- Making Game of Thrones: Richard Dormer Shares What It's Really Like to Fight with Beric's Flaming Sword
- Making Game of Thrones: Kristofer Hivju Has a Method for Getting in the Tormund Mood

Videos:
- The Frozen Lake (~12 min featurette)
- Cast Commentary on Brothers Beyond the Wall
- Season 7 Episode 5: The Night King and Viserion
- Season 7 Episode 6: Inside the Episode
- Season 7 Finale Preview (please spoiler tag any discussion)

 

[gspec]

Talisha and Karl Tanner say hi. Two of the most memorable characters ever. Is Tristan of Dorne original too? Another memorable lad. How about Dickon and Lyanna Morment? People just don't give D&D enough credit.

Talisha is a replacement for another character in the books that is basically the same person (Robb Stark's wife).

Karl Tanner is replacement for another character in the books which does something similiar but it is not mention in depth in the books just alluded to.

Tristan is in the books.

Dickon is in the books.

Lyanna Mormont is in the books or is a replacement for another lady mormont. I don't know if she is as young as in the show.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

The other issue of NK not killing Drogon I actually took as he didn't want to kill Dany or Jon because he knows they are still fighting a civil war and wants them to kill as many southerners as possible before he rolls in.

But...Jon and Dany are the only people who actually pose a threat to his impending invasion. Drogon's just sitting there waiting to take a spear in the neck, yet the NK decides to go for the much more difficult shot of hitting Viserion, who's moving left to right from his vantage and would have to be led properly, etc.

Just one simple writing/directorial decision could have made this work: The NK is lining up a shot at Drogon when he hears a roar behind him. He turns to see Viserion charging his position directly. Viserion breathes fire down at the NK, who's impervious to it, because he's the fucking NK, bitches. Viserion ends up taking a spear right through his open mouth for his trouble, crashes into the ground and bleeds out almost immediately.

As for Jon's ridiculous escape at the end- wouldn't it have played out much better to have Rhaegal (you know, the dragon named after Jon's dad) double back for Jon of his own accord? They could have even played it out off-screen. Have Dany and Co. show up at Eastwatch on Drogon. They set down, and Dany's like, "Yo, where Rhaegal at?" BOOM. There he is, with Jon riding ably on his back.

I mean, it's still tropey and simplistic, but it's better than:

- NK and his WW's assume Jon's dead and leave. Why assume that? Because reasons.
- Jon magically pops up through ice hole.
- Benjen shows up out of nowhere in a complete ass-pull.
- "Uncle Benjen?"
- Dead.
- Jon rides back to Eastwatch wearing wet/frozen furs. Is fine.
- Jon wakes up. Mentions nothing of seeing his uncle: his childhood idol and his main inspiration for joining the NW in the first place. The man who's disappearance resulted in an expedition north of the wall that set everything in motion that's happened regarding Jon's ascension to LC and now KOTN and the impending war with the army of the dead.

Ugh.

 

[Visceir]

Sure but again, why did he not immediately down all of the dragons the second they arrived rather than stand there watching them escape first?

Probably works much like other witches on the show/books seeing the future and telling prophecies. He knew the key points on what he needed to do and wasn't all too concerned with the rest.

He wasn't there to beat the enemy, he was there to get a dragon.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

maybe night king wants them to bring a wight to king's landing and that's why he didn't go for drogon

they will warg into the wight and from there warg into the mountain to wreak havoc and blow in the wind like leaves

nine-dimensional chess

 

[Mendrox]

He seemed to be pretty chill and in control of the situation like he knew what he was doing. All according to keikaku.

Yop and I like that he doesnt smirk. Would make him look goofy. Acting like this gives me the feeling that everything he does is for a good reason. I hope we get an episode next season that will explain all of that and that everything was planned including the lore behind it with Bran.

 

[WalshyB]

Is there some timeline of Gendry leaving... raven leaving...up to Dany arriving? It took me completely out of the episode.

How long were they on that platform for? 1 night?

 

[The Greek Freak]

But...Jon and Dany are the only people who actually pose a threat to his impending invasion. Drogon's just sitting there waiting to take a spear in the neck, yet the NK decides to go for the much more difficult shot of hitting Viserion, who's moving left to right from his vantage and would have to be led properly, etc.

Just one simple writing/directorial decision could have made this work: The NK is lining up a shot at Drogon when he hears a roar behind him. He turns to see Viserion charging his position directly. Viserion breathes fire down at the NK, who's impervious to it, because he's the fucking NK, bitches. Viserion ends up taking a spear right through his open mouth for his trouble, crashes into the ground and bleeds out almost immediately.

As for Jon's ridiculous escape at the end- wouldn't it have played out much better to have Rhaegal (you know, the dragon named after Jon's dad) double back for Jon of his own accord? They could have even played it out off-screen. Have Dany and Co. show up at Eastwatch on Drogon. They set down, and Dany's like, "Yo, where Rhaegal at?" BOOM. There he is, with Jon riding ably on his back.

I mean, it's still tropey and simplistic, but it's better than:

- NK and his WW's assume Jon's dead and leave. Why assume that? Because reasons.
- Jon magically pops up through ice hole.
- Benjen shows up out of nowhere in a complete ass-pull.
- "Uncle Benjen?"
- Dead.
- Jon rides back to Eastwatch wearing wet/frozen furs. Is fine.
- Jon wakes up. Mentions nothing of seeing his uncle: his childhood idol and his main inspiration for joining the NW in the first place. The man who's disappearance resulted in an expedition north of the wall that set everything in motion that's happened regarding Jon's ascension to LC and now KOTN and the impending war with the army of the dead.

Ugh.

Sorry D&D are too incompetent for changes like that.

You forget these are the same morons who had Robb act a fool because he was horny (instead of being wounded and upset about hearing that Bran/Rickon had been killed), and made Catelyn the dumbest character in the show (having her set Jaime free before hearing about Bran/Rickon) making her actions just hilariously dumb instead of grief stricken actions.

The above is when I lost all hope of D&D not choosing the idiot path at every fork in the road. It wouldn't have been hard to explain (easier than what they did), it wouldn't have cost more money, it wouldn't have taken more time. Pure idiocy.

Is there some timeline of Gendry leaving... raven leaving...up to Dany arriving? It took me completely out of the episode.

How long were they on that platform for? 1 night?

Show doesn't care, they would let someone run from Dorne to the wall in half a day if it was convenient for them.

 

[duckroll]

Talisha is a replacement for another character in the books that is basically the same person (Robb Stark's wife).

Karl Tanner is replacement for another character in the books which does something similiar but it is not mention in depth in the books just alluded to.

Tristan is in the books.

Dickon is in the books.

Lyanna Mormont is in the books or is a replacement for another lady mormont. I don't know if she is as young as in the show.

"It's not the same character, it's not the same storyline."

 

[The Elite]

Is there some timeline of Gendry leaving... raven leaving...up to Dany arriving? It took me completely out of the episode.

How long were they on that platform for? 1 night?

They didn't bother to establish any real timeline. There should have been a shot of them camping overnight but I bet they thought that would look silly so they just said fuck it.

 

[Mendrox]

Is there some timeline of Gendry leaving... raven leaving...up to Dany arriving? It took me completely out of the episode.

How long were they on that platform for? 1 night?

More than three. The ice takes about 4 days to get hard enough for the Horde to walk on.

 

[WalshyB]

More than three. The ice takes about 4 days to get hard enough for the Horde to walk on.

Thanks, understanding this was hard to follow for me.

Was it said at any point, which I missed?

The way it came across for me is that they were just there for one night.

 

[Mendrox]

Thanks, understanding this was hard to follow for me.

Was it said at any point, which I missed?

The way it came across for me is that they were just there for one night.

No I dont it was mentioned which they should have so people would stop being confused about the timeline for that episode. Gendry running for a few hours and Dany traveling at super speed doesnt make sense but many people think that. I guess people also think it's realistic a lttle bit because ice cubes also dont take a lot of time lol

 

[The Greek Freak]

More than three. The ice takes about 4 days to get hard enough for the Horde to walk on.

The Night King can find? enormous chains to drag up a dragon (no pun intended), can turn things into wights, LITERALLY BRINGS THE COLD, but hey water? That shit needs at least a few days to freeze, magic doesn't work on water!

 

[Brazil]

Everyone I know IRL: Fast and the Furious was one of the best movies I've seen all year! OMG FAMILY!

Well, it is.

 

[Faddy]

Is there some timeline of Gendry leaving... raven leaving...up to Dany arriving? It took me completely out of the episode.

How long were they on that platform for? 1 night?

They would have had to have been on the rock for multiple days. Even on the shows much smaller map it is still ballpark 1000 miles from Eastwatch to Dragonstone.

That is why they should be using magic to send messages. Bran is magic, dragons are magic, to a certain extent Targaryens and Starks are magic. What is the point of all this magic stuff if you can't use it to overcome the huge logistics of the plot.

 

[andythinkpad]

What makes the S7E4 episode so good and this episode so bad is that the war battle in S7E4 make spacial and chronological sense, and the battle in S7E6 doesn't.

 

[fallengorn]

I don't know why D&D invite all this criticism with using people and ravens to send messages. They should use magic. Assuming Jon is going to ride a dragon....they should have had a Jon/Rhaegal scene when he was petting Drogon, like Rhaegal swoops in jealous and shit.

Then instead of sending Gendry running to Eastwatch and sending a raven to Dany for her to fly north.

Jon gets in trouble. Cut to Dragonstone, Dany, Tyrion with 3 dragons discuss plans. Rhaegal suddenly flies off North, Dany infers it is like when Drogon rescued her at the fighting pit, decides she will go north with Drogon and Viserion to help.

Friendship ended with Ghost
Now Rhaegal is my best friend

 

[Faddy]

Friendship ended with Ghost
Now Rhaegal is my best friend

Like I posted after the last episode that Ghost should have went North. If Jon had sent Ghost running back to Eastwatch he would have made a much better time than Gendry. Tie a note to his neck or something.

 

[John Dunbar]

What makes the S7E4 episode so good and this episode so bad is that the war battle in S7E4 make spacial and chronological sense, and the battle in S7E6 doesn't.

if we're being honest, it didn't really make sense, either. how did dany get all the dothraki with their horses on ships and then land them somewhere on the continent without lannisters having any clue? that landing would have to be some normandy shit.

 

[Atraveller]

if we're being honest, it didn't really make sense, either. how did dany get all the dothraki with their horses on ships and then land them somewhere on the continent without lannisters having any clue? that landing would have to be some normandy shit.

Indeed. No one thought to warn the baggage train, and no one thought to attack wherever Dany parked her ships.

 

[WolfForager]

I'm going with the "The NK is a greenseer and it was an elaborate trap to get an Ice Dragon" theory, it's the only way to redeem the whole thing. In fairness he seems to be able to sense Bran when he's around so it does sort of make sense.

 

[Skilletor]

if we're being honest, it didn't really make sense, either. how did dany get all the dothraki with their horses on ships and then land them somewhere on the continent without lannisters having any clue? that landing would have to be some normandy shit.

She learned the cloaking tech that Euron uses for his fleet.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I'm so over Show!Littlefinger

I hope that, next episode, Sansa realizes they are getting played and uses Chekhov's dragonglass dagger to stab Littlefinger so Arya can take his face.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I'm so over Show!Littlefinger

I hope that, next episode, Sansa realizes they are getting played and uses Chekhov's dragonglass dagger to stab Littlefinger so Arya can take his face.

I bet next episode goes something like this:

Sansa: Arya, I think I figured it out, Littlefinger has been plotting against us!
Arya: Yeah no, shit, I've been just fucking around till you figured that out, can we kill him already?