Support NeoGAF

[down 2 orth]

Layman question: does this mean that bodies in games will stop disappearing after a few seconds? Cuz if so: about fucking time.

 

[docbot]

To all the people saying that this is an tech demo and games will never look like this. May I suggest taking a look at the
UE4 Tech Demo for PS4



I would say we have certainly surpassed this with God of War, Uncharted 4, TLOU2...

 

[Dacon]

I wouldn't say she looks off, but her facial design is more hyperreal stylization, rather than photorealistic facial features. Maybe that's what you're noticing?

I would say its more than the lighting and geometry of the level looks so goddamn good that she looks kind of out of place in comparison.

I can't wait to see what UE5 games look like when people start layering more and more effects, renderering techniques and shaders onto their own unique art styles.

That lighting is GORGEOUS. Was raytracing used at all here?

 

[Gavon West]

How many times have they said triangles?

3

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I don't trust tech demos. I would prefer to see actual gameplay.

It..there...there was gameplay in there. Maybe not rich in mechanics, but someone had clearly controlled the character in real-time and there's some physics work in there too with the crumbling rocks, etc.

There's about as much gameplay in that demo as there was in the Bright Memory Infinite trailer at Inside Xbox, at the very least. Which is to say, a decent amount of it.

I don't disagree. But this is running live currently. I think this might be possible on the next-gen. Though I don't believe the 4k/60 non-sense they keep mentioning. Even my 2080Ti can't do 4K/60 on many games.

This will definitely be doable on next-gen in real-time gameplay, and I don't think it'll take very long, either. What's more, this isn't even the peak of visual fidelity and capability next-gen will provide.

Exciting times ahead lads

 

[Shmunter]

This changes EVERYTHING. Limitless, easy to implement geometry, changes everything. God, what a time to be alive! This is more then I would have expected from the UE5. A work of magic.

That’s the thing. There’s a lot more going on here under the bonnet. The gaming industry Is undergoing a paradigm shift to simplicity of implementation. Exactly as per Cerney talk.

 

[SirTerry-T]

More power maybe, but they don't have the custom hardware PS5 has and they certainly don't have the insane SSD speeds PS5 has which is the main reason behind the graphics and fidelity you see here...….I'm sure this can be rendered on PC and Series X as well, but there will be compromises with LOD and transitions......Or perhaps when we get to cycling quickly through the level or in levels with more diverse textures and density, you may see some compromises relative to fidelity/artefacts and performance loss on Series X...…..as it won't be able to keep up with PS5 with the 1:1 triangle to pixel ratio. So you may get a more compromised triangle to pixel ratio on Series X in comparison...…..This is not about TF or CU power....Series X has it's strengths, but most are mitigated through PS5's custom hardware. On the flip, Series X's SSD is no match for PS5's. Series X's SSD is what current gen PC tech has right now, even a bit slower than the best PC SSD's you can find right now....And on top of that, Series X just doesn't have the DMAC that PS5 has to make this work as proficiently, it doesn't have the 12 gates on the I/O....

You really, really love your PlayStation consoles don't ya pal.
Bless ya.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Yes, everything is being streamed from the SSD at a speed that you don't need loading screens, to hide loading times with corridors, elevators, cutscenes and so on.

But I was mentioning that there is no PC equivalent to all the hardware related to the PS5 SSD. I'm not talking about only having an SSD that streams at over 8-9 GB/s, also talking about all the bottlenecks Cerny mentioned they removed and related tweaks they did to the traditional method of loading from HDD or SSD.

The thing is, PCs can get away with that by simply upping their supplemental amounts of DDR4 RAM in system memory, and a pretty decent SSD (Sabrent has some very capable SSDs currently out there for great size and fast speeds). Direct Storage is seemingly being designed (I would assume) to address many of the current issues with file storage and data streaming on the PC platform, through software-based optimizations paired with capable hardware to support those implementations.

There's zero reason to worry about PC gaming here whatsoever in this regard; the platform has been a standard for the industry for decades for a reason. It's very good at quick adaptations and standardizations, now more than ever.

 

[Azelover]

I'm not impressed.

This feels at best like the shift from Super Mario World to Donkey Kong Country.

It's lightly impressive, but it's not generational.

 

[Gavon West]

I'm more than perfectly fine with this level of lights and shadows for the entirety of next gen.

I'm not really a lights\shadow whore, i care far more about textures, animations, physics etc.

Lighting is everything my guy. E V E R Y T H I N G.

 

[sonyfifa]

After halo co-developer praised PS5 ssd.

Halo Co-Creator Hyped About PS5's Super-Fast SSD Technology

Seamless, fluid experiences

www.pushsquare.com

Now also developer epic games joins the playstation hype train

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Technically this is true, but is it fair of me to assume that the demo probably looks at least looks just as good when running on XsX? Hopefully we get an XsX version soon, given the buzz this has generated alreadd, MS surely has taken notice, right?

100% but thats what we wanted to see from ms. Thats what I was saying not necessarily "o the ps5 looks better then the xsx" I'm saying that tech demo and them saying it was built using a ps5 thats what we all want to see. And tomorrow even tho GOT is for the ps4 the second is gonna be 18 mins of gameplay thats the type of shit we all want to see not trailer after trailer after trailer.

 

[Alexios]

Lol @ anyone thinking UE5 won't work just as well on Xbox/PC (yup, Epic totally made an engine that can't work well on any but a single platform, that's totally business savvy). Those also have "fast SSD storage" which they were careful to word so nicely

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

The engine and development pipeline changes are next gen. What is shown is impressive as a tech demo. Now I want to see a side by side XSX vs PS5 on retail hardware. Then I want to see two first party developers on each vs a high end PC.

In reality these consoles are going to be so close to similar outputs and far more relies on the resources investment, talent at studios and design/development pipelines into their respective engines each game release goes with. Unreal engine is doing some next gen shit alright, Sony were smart to invest/buy this demo with them and release that as a next gen teaser. MS should have similar with their first party showing in July.

By comparison the dev/engine building going on with Star Citizen has a ton of this sort of stuff and pumped up on steroids all without a magic Sony SSD to boot.

 

[Dacon]

You know what's funny? Bethesda is probably gonna keep using the same shitty engine they always have when we have shit like this.

 

[iHaunter]

It..there...there was gameplay in there. Maybe not rich in mechanics, but someone had clearly controlled the character in real-time and there's some physics work in there too with the crumbling rocks, etc.

There's about as much gameplay in that demo as there was in the Bright Memory Infinite trailer at Inside Xbox, at the very least. Which is to say, a decent amount of it.



This will definitely be doable on next-gen in real-time gameplay, and I don't think it'll take very long, either. What's more, this isn't even the peak of visual fidelity and capability next-gen will provide.

Exciting times ahead lads

At least on XSex and PS5 for sure.

 

[mortal]

 

[VAVA Mk2]

You know what's funny? Bethesda is probably gonna keep using the same shitty engine they always have when we have shit like this.

It's a pig with lipstick.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

You know what's funny? Bethesda is probably gonna keep using the same shitty engine they always have when we have shit like this.

Don't kill my dream like that. Don't do me so dirty

 

[LittleBigGamer]

Lastly, I'll reserve judgment when I see HZD2 and have HZD1 on my PC.

If you were an industry professional you should know the answer already No offense.
That's what I am saying from the beginning. Some of your arguments are extremely naive. Which is completely ok, but not when wearing this label.


can't wait to see you trying to convince yourself when HZ2 footage shown, that it is ''subjective'', ''it's the art'', ''the point of view'' etc.

don't do this to yourself.

PS.

 

[LostDonkey]

Reading comments around the internet the vast majority of people think this is actually a gameplay reveal for an exclusive PS5 game.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Sony always has Unreal Engine's demo'd on Sony platforms. always looks great.


I want to see some next gen games from Xbox and PS!! I'm cooped up social distancing/off work/locked down with nothing better to do! show me some god damn games!

 

[mortal]

Reading comments around the internet the vast majority of people think this is actually a gameplay reveal for an exclusive PS5 game.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

meh. this is just a tech demo, not gameplay.

For reference:

this is a similar epic games unreal engine tech demo, but for unreal engine 3:




platform: xbox 360 and ps3

and now compare this demo to real gameplay from PS3/xbox 360 unreal engine games lol

Was that actually playable and running on a console dev kit? I don't believe so.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Reading comments around the internet the vast majority of people think this is actually a gameplay reveal for an exclusive PS5 game.

IT'S NOT???

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Reading comments around the internet the vast majority of people think this is actually a gameplay reveal for an exclusive PS5 game.

That's the power of optics. Was very smart of Sony to get this demo shown off on PS5 devkit hardware.

Right now I want MS seriously evaluating how they go forward with their reveal event in July and maybe even show off a teaser ahead of that near the end of this month just to keep the XSX in active conversation and get people looking forward to the July event with something at least comparable to this UE5 demo a month or so before then.

Because I think waiting until July to try and "course-correct" after the Inside Xbox event last week might be a bit too slow, would essentially be them giving Sony two months of uninterrupted momentum in messaging and they're already building up a lot of hype thanks to this demo. So they might need to put something out there this month to be perfectly honest, that also washes away the aftertaste of the event last week plus gets people hyped up earnestly for the July event.

Just my honest opinion.

 

[Clintizzle]

You really, really love your PlayStation consoles don't ya pal.
Bless ya.

I think............ its pretty cute......to have......that much.......loyalty......to a game......company. The user......stays composed and.........doesn't get........abusive.............so its really....................................................hard to get tired..................of the..............Blatant.......fanboi-ism.

 

[LostDonkey]

That's the power of optics. Was very smart of Sony to get this demo shown off on PS5 devkit hardware.

Right now I want MS seriously evaluating how they go forward with their reveal event in July and maybe even show off a teaser ahead of that near the end of this month just to keep the XSX in active conversation and get people looking forward to the July event with something at least comparable to this UE5 demo a month or so before then.

Because I think waiting until July to try and "course-correct" after the Inside Xbox event last week might be a bit too slow, would essentially be them giving Sony two months of uninterrupted momentum in messaging and they're already building up a lot of hype thanks to this demo. So they might need to put something out there this month to be perfectly honest, that also washes away the aftertaste of the event last week plus gets people hyped up earnestly for the July event.

Just my honest opinion.

Wouldn't hurt would it.

If this is what we can expect detail wise from next gen I can't wait to see the Forzas. Imagine car details on the same level as those statues, And theyre saying there were what?, 485 statues in that room all of the same density.

 

[Danjin44]

I personally cant for life of me get excited about these tech demos, I will get excited when I see it used on actual game.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I personally cant for life of me get excited about these tech demos, I will get excited when I see it used on actual game.

That's totally fair.

Do you like what you see, though? Even if it is just a tech demo?

 

[Soodanim]

You know what's funny? Bethesda is probably gonna keep using the same shitty engine they always have when we have shit like this.

Trying to get Skyrim lighting optimised was the first thing I thought about when I watched the tech demo, so it's a sad reality that we probably won't get this tech in TES6. It would be fantastic to go through a dark dungeon with a torch with visuals like these, or watch spells give off light as they're thrown back and forth in the dark. I know you can achieve the latter to a point with a mod that enables light from spells, but Skyrim only allows a certain number of sourcesn at one time and it messes a couple things up. But I digress.

Beth: look, listen and learn

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Wouldn't hurt would it.

If this is what we can expect detail wise from next gen I can't wait to see the Forzas. Imagine car details on the same level as those statues, And theyre saying there were what?, 485 statues in that room all of the same density.

IT'S OVER 9000!!! ..... minus 8500.

So over 500

 

[Danjin44]

That's totally fair.

Do you like what you see, though? Even if it is just a tech demo?

Honestly I will be more impressed if they use that tech to give me interesting and fantastical art direction instead of just hyper realism landscapes.

 

[Dacon]

Don't kill my dream like that. Don't do me so dirty

Trying to get Skyrim lighting optimised was the first thing I thought about when I watched the tech demo, so it's a sad reality that we probably won't get this tech in TES6. It would be fantastic to go through a dark dungeon with a torch with visuals like these, or watch spells give off light as they're thrown back and forth in the dark. I know you can achieve the latter to a point with a mod that enables light from spells, but Skyrim only allows a certain number of sourcesn at one time and it messes a couple things up. But I digress.

Beth: look, listen and learn

I think it's more than likely, that within the next 5 years another developer will take Bethesdas place as the go to for the western open world RPG type game, and they'll do it with an engine that isn't a poorly optimised POS.

I don't have any faith in Besthesda to handle the future of the ES franchise after ESO and Fallout 76.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Microsoft decided to show actual games, this was a tech demo. That is likely the reason.

Those games were a pretty bad way to show their platform, sorry. I know some of them may end up being the best launch titles, but they are not showcase material.

Looks amazing but there are some things here that fire bullshit alert in me:

- frame-rate was atrocious. Sub 30fps for a tech demo. No way real game looking like that would even be 10fps.
- despite claiming that every light is real yellow light coming out of device at the end didn't gave any light
- i don't see how this can fit into VRAM if they are really using raw assets. For those who don't know some assets can be 10-20GBs each let alone scenes which could be terrabytes of data.

Imho demo was not actually on PS5 but on some professional PC with 20-30GB of VRAM.

And for those who want to say "you don't know anyhing" etc. UE4 also was presented with tech demo that was running "real time on next gen consoles" that in the end was cut down in scope and its main feature global illumination was also cut out demo also went back from 60fps to sub 30fps.

original UE4 tech-demo

console version of that tech-demo:


PCIExpress 4.0 is rather new. There are already SSDs with 5GB/s and there should be better ones in following months. Both new consoles aren't using some space tech, just bog standard PCIExpress4.0.



It wasn't gameplay demo because it was techdemo. Techdemo =/= game.

I think you defeat the argument you are trying to make, the UE4 tech demo shown on the PS4 was representative of the features the console could handle in real time with the techniques used back then.

That thing about the asset sizes is something I have problems to contend with, but I also know that this is the whole point of them showing this demo, it's so radically different than anything we have ever seen that it's hard to wrap our heads around it--this is the whole point of that specific implementation of the SSD... with my basic understanding I can't even see how a game would fit in a 825GB drive, even with compression. But I also don't get how google is able to search whatever I want in their humongous database in a fraction of a second.

As far as I know the only PC workstation cards that could run this demo are the Radeon SSG cards with 1TB SSD built-in, none of that 20-30GB VRAM BS, that's not even close to be enough to do anything they describe during the video.


History of Sony realtime hardware tech demos shown before console release
PS1


PS2


PS3


PS4


PS5


There is no way that PS5 demo runs on a beefed up PC, as you pointed out the equivalent PS4 demo ran considerably better on a good PC back in 2013... I think what we see in there is in line with what we should expect (the water ripples are grainy, so is the motion blur, the air looks restricted)... But the animation is the weak portion of most Unreal tech demos that include humans or humanoids.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Geometry virtualization has been done(with rather impressive results) on hw with orders of magnitude less compute and even less I/O throughput, over a decade ago - it's not a new invention so much as parts of it being more viable now. Content production side as much as runtime really.
The storage speeds alone will be driving most development to at least consider similar approaches, it's the most obvious thing to try out of the gate with all the extra bandwidth.

You are right.

I have the original inspiration paper right here

http://home.cse.ust.hk/~psander/docs/pmstream.pdf

All done on the GPU and residing in the GPU memory. Pretty complex algorithm. I can see why it has taken Brian over a decade of study and 3yrs full time to make.

 

[Jubenhimer]

This looks impressive. But, and I know this will sound controversial, but it doesn't look like it massively obliterates current gen visuals to me. That's the feeling I get with gens 8 and 9. The days of massive visual improvements made each generation like going from PS1 to PS2 will probably never be reached again. Instead, next gen seems to be built on a lot of subtle improvements that add up to create an overall leap over current gen, but not one that isn't immediately noticeable right away. Very similar to current gen vs seventh generation, except here its even more of the case.

I mean don't get me wrong, Ray Tracing and SSD speeds will certainly be very nice improvements, but I think many next gen games will look like a very polished evolution of current gen games, as opposed to a revolution. It could just be that I've never obsessed over graphics, so this doesn't look all much of a leap to me, and I understand that graphics will always have room for improvement, but I still feel the same as I did at the beginning of this generation. Graphical leaps are seemingly getting smaller and smaller with each new console.

 

[LostDonkey]

Angry Joe brought up a good point in his video, How are they going to fit all this data on a system uncompressed. Lossless. Call of Duty+Warzone is already nearly 200gb and nowhere near the fidelity or scope of something like this.

 

[Saint Boot]

It was funny in the video when one of the guys explaining it says "It just works"
Me: Flashes back to fallout 76 "It just works" Failure.
Don't think this is going to fail mind you, but it was too soon.

 

[DopeyFish]

Angry Joe brought up a good point in his video, How are they going to fit all this data on a system uncompressed. Lossless. Call of Duty+Warzone is already nearly 200gb and nowhere near the fidelity or scope of something like this.

just for reference... my estimation is that one statue is roughly 2 GB in size. (largely because they gave the estimation of 33 million polys)

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Honestly I will be more impressed if they use that tech to give me interesting and fantastical art direction instead of just hyper realism landscapes.

Don't fret, we might get something like this in Scorn. Closest to Giger-esque influence so far from games seen.

This looks impressive. But, and I know this will sound controversial, but it doesn't look like it massively obliterates current gen visuals to me. That's the feeling I get with gens 8 and 9. The days of massive visual improvements made each generation like going from PS1 to PS2 will probably never be reached again. Instead, next gen seems to be built on a lot of subtle improvements that add up to create an overall leap over current gen, but not one that isn't immediately noticeable right away. Very similar to current gen vs seventh generation, except here its even more of the case.

I mean don't get me wrong, Ray Tracing and SSD speeds will certainly be very nice improvements, but I think many next gen games will look like a very polished evolution of current gen games, as opposed to a revolution. It could just be that I've never obsessed over graphics, so this doesn't look all much of a leap to me, and I understand that graphics will always have room for improvement, but I still feel the same as I did at the beginning of this generation. Graphical leaps are seemingly getting smaller and smaller with each new console.

At this point though, do we really need a revolution in game design? I think the perfect "revolution" for me personally, would be seeing what some of the indie games are doing in terms of game mechanics and ideas, but with AAA-level budgets. There's a PC game from YEARS ago, I think around 2012-2013 or something like that. It involved the players on a space vessel and had a super-complex AI and dialog system, as well as an advanced scheduling system for NPC behavioral routines.

I can't remember the name of it for the life of me, and when the game came out reviews at the time dogged it a bit for unrealized potential but the preview coverage was very interesting. It was basically like System Shock but without the cyberpunk-horror elements and not focused on shooting mechanics, but I believe you were able to fix up parts of the space vessel with your engineering skills, and help with ships docking into the ports. If anyone can recommend any possible games fitting the description of what I'm talking about (to ID the game in question) I'd love that...

...because honestly that's where I think the "revolution" in game design will really be at. Highly advanced AI, physics, behavioral systems that actually influence gameplay, greater scope of game mechanics, innovations in seamless single-player/multiplayer online and offline game design etc. But that stuff isn't as easy a sell to the masses as yet better visual fidelity and sharper-looking textures, or even stuff like RT. Players have to actually play those kind of games to tell the differences.

Indie games on average seem to be coming up with the more creative game mechanics these days, but usually don't have the budgets to bring them to their full realization. Advancements in dev tools, APIs and ease of streamlining the pipeline could make that a thing of the past however. I mean, just look at Bright Memory Infinite, that's done by a single dude and already looks comparable to a lot of (at least) modest/medium AA/AAA games IMHO. Hopefully the game is decently long but aside from that, this could be the generation letting smaller devs actually utilize streamlining of powerful dev tools and powerful programming techniques to bring innovative game mechanics and designs to a presentation level that is graphically at some decent level to the big boys!

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

This looks impressive. But, and I know this will sound controversial, but it doesn't look like it massively obliterates current gen visuals to me. That's the feeling I get with gens 8 and 9. The days of massive visual improvements made each generation like going from PS1 to PS2 will probably never be reached again. Instead, next gen seems to be built on a lot of subtle improvements that add up to create an overall leap over current gen, but not one that isn't immediately noticeable right away. Very similar to current gen vs seventh generation, except here its even more of the case.

I mean don't get me wrong, Ray Tracing and SSD speeds will certainly be very nice improvements, but I think many next gen games will look like a very polished evolution of current gen games, as opposed to a revolution. It could just be that I've never obsessed over graphics, so this doesn't look all much of a leap to me, and I understand that graphics will always have room for improvement, but I still feel the same as I did at the beginning of this generation. Graphical leaps are seemingly getting smaller and smaller with each new console.

It's why this is a graphics tech demo and not a real game to play. I'm with you, I'll be far more impressed with real time game simulations such as improved AI, governing systems of enemies, physics/alterations, real time deformations, 3D audio (to be fair the audio in this demo is amazing but possible on current gen), solid modeling, procedural systems on the fly, 60+fps/fluid dynamic animations and more interesting gameplay elements than just hey that looks pretty. There is a massive resources demand going from 30fps HD to 60fps 4K. I wonder how much grunt is left over for some of these other elements really. The beauty of this tech demo is available to all using Unreal 5 e.g. LOD automation, real time lighting, source assets required minimised. There is huge design and development pipeline savings in this tech demo, way more impressive than the graphics we're seeing or even expecting from next gen. This translates into game studios putting more time into their art, story, audio, physics, AI, models, animations etc. The real next gen pay off may very well just be lowering the demands on the creators to deliver such high quality game outputs.

Honestly look at this demo, no AI, no enemies/allies, no coop, no online networking, no animation etc. It's very focused and scripted.

 

[psorcerer]

just for reference... my estimation is that one statue is roughly 2 GB in size. (largely because they gave the estimation of 33 million polys)

Zbrush model of 33mln polys would be ~600MB

 

[Hawking Radiation]

If you were an industry professional you should know the answer already No offense.
That's what I am saying from the beginning. Some of your arguments are extremely naive. Which is completely ok, but not when wearing this label.


can't wait to see you trying to convince yourself when HZ2 footage shown, that it is ''subjective'', ''it's the art'', ''the point of view'' etc.

don't do this to yourself.

PS.

Yet we have armchair devs and engineers in this and other related threads saying there are PC SSD's out today that offer the same performance as PS5's SSD

SMFH

 

[-Arcadia-]

Angry Joe brought up a good point in his video, How are they going to fit all this data on a system uncompressed. Lossless. Call of Duty+Warzone is already nearly 200gb and nowhere near the fidelity or scope of something like this.

I came here with this exact same thought.

Removal of the duplicated data that helped HDD’s load quickly, perhaps? There was an absolute ton of it. Even then though, film quality assets...

But, I presume Epic knows what it’s doing and has a solution, be it compression or something else. Biggest engine business in gaming + expanding to Hollywood, means you don’t make stupid moves with your prize product.

 

[Fafalada]

just for reference... my estimation is that one statue is roughly 2 GB in size. (largely because they gave the estimation of 33 million polys)

Why 2GB? Even uncompressed I only calculate around 1gb? And there's no way you're going to store this uncompressed, no more than we do uncompressed textures in games.

 

[fran.fernandez]

Naughty Dog will do crazy stuff with PS5 and optimized assets!

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I came here with this exact same thought.

Removal of the duplicated data that helped HDD’s load quickly, perhaps? There was an absolute ton of it. Even then though, film quality assets...

But, I presume Epic knows what it’s doing and has a solution, be it compression or something else. Biggest engine business in gaming + expanding to Hollywood, means you don’t make stupid moves with your prize product.

It seems like an interesting scenario, as we are going to get larger, more detailed textures to stream, but both consoles have advertised technology centered around keeping installs "smaller." So maybe it evens out and installs stay the same size?

 

[CrustyBritches]

Don't fret, we might get something like this in Scorn. Closest to Giger-esque influence so far from games seen.

Man, the Scorn XSX in-engine trailer was something else. Gave me chills.

 

[sixamp]

I honestly dont understand why everyone is praising the ps5 or this is next gen stuff when this was just a tech demo. It had nothing to do with the ps5 or xbox or pc, it was just for epic to showcase their new engine.

Also alot of people seem to be down on MS for what they showed off. They meant to showcase 3rd party software not an engine which will be on every platform.