Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Can't believe we're still doing this. But no. They do not. And the engine does not dictate what a game looks like.
And these are all from the same UE5 game
Unreal Engine is slowly causing the decay of the industry, what can be done?
And these are all from the same UE5 game
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Feels like a very dramatic statement to me.
Install game, let nvidia app determine settings, play…. Has worked for me fine across a few UE5 games and I'm just trying n a gaming laptop. Games look great and play great.
Feel like people always try to push max settings when sometimes they are just kind of shit implementations.
Install game, let nvidia app determine settings, play…. Has worked for me fine across a few UE5 games and I'm just trying n a gaming laptop. Games look great and play great.
Feel like people always try to push max settings when sometimes they are just kind of shit implementations.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
And of course you have Indy and Doom with ID Tech engine. I just wish they didn't make RT mandatory.
Skifi28
Member
One could also say that several hits from modern inexperienced devs such as Wukong or Wuchang or Wu-something else would not have been possible without UE5. In the end, Unreal giveth and Unreal taketh away. While I agree UE5 is an problem (though things are steadily improving with each version) the issues lie much deeper as we often see games with different engines even from large teams having similar issues.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I like what the engine is doing and don't miss the plastic older engine days but something has to be done optimization wise where we're having games come out 2-3 years ago perform the same as now. We should be iterating and refining more than this. That being said, if it wasn't for the privilege of having a high end PC, I would certainly be bickering but I had to pay for that privilege.
We are at a good point of visuals versus performance to where we just need to accelerate the right processes so we don't have the start performance on 2000USD hardware being able to bare run a game natively at 4k60. That is the current barometer. Get to a good 4k60 with minor dips within the VRR window.
We are at a good point of visuals versus performance to where we just need to accelerate the right processes so we don't have the start performance on 2000USD hardware being able to bare run a game natively at 4k60. That is the current barometer. Get to a good 4k60 with minor dips within the VRR window.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Many of us are tired of these excessive graphical features that cause shitty performance. It's time to fully put the focus into optimization.
There are multiple other engines that run better than Unreal. I am not letting devs off the hook for using that POS of an engine.
Decima, Id tech, Crytek to name a few. I get that those aren't really being licensed out.
Msamy
Member
Truly I can't handle those ..... theards every week
Msamy
Member
People's blame UE5 for for everything while developer's themselves have main responsibility for detaching their own engines and use UE5 to achieve their goals on easy ways, lol even many big studios (ex cdpr, crystal dynamicss, square enix and many others) are doing this,,(don't blame UE5 for the for developers laziness)
{insert code here}
Member
This and it also leads to centralization of tech industries. By standardizing UE we've basically handed the majority of the gaming industry over to Epic.
Skifi28
Member
There's a few world leaders working on that as we speak. Patience young metallic grasshopper.
bender
What time is it?
Nah bro those all look exactly the same. /sCan't believe we're still doing this. But no. They do not. And the engine does not dictate what a game looks like.
And these are all from the same UE5 game
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Yeah man, if you look at the ground, you can see the dirt is brown in all of them!
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Fbh
Member
Look I'm not a UE5 fan. Usually when it's revealed that a game will use UE5 my interest in it instantly diminishes because there's a high chance the performance mode will suck (at least on Ps5). I'll probably skip many UE5 games this gen and I'll just play them on Ps6/PC in the future when they can be played at more than 720p and 45-60fps.
But lets not be hyperbolic either. The "standard" isn't dropping, last gen the norm on consoles was games running at around 900p-1080p and 30fps, and it wasn't rare to see games dropping frames even below that. If you stick with the standard of last gen UE5 isn't too bad, games in their graphics mode tend to run at basically locked 30fps and resolutions above 1080p even on the base Ps5/SX.
The standard also wasn't that small no name devs working with a AA budget could deliver games that look like this:
It's only once you combine UE5 with the increased expectations of 60fps that it really struggles (at least on consoles).
Personally these days I'll always prefer a game focusing on delivering 60fps with good IQ instead of graphics. But I still think that expecting UE5 to offer a generational leap in visuals, more accessibility to smaller devs AND also doubling the framerate compared to last gen while keeping high resolutions is pretty unfair.
But lets not be hyperbolic either. The "standard" isn't dropping, last gen the norm on consoles was games running at around 900p-1080p and 30fps, and it wasn't rare to see games dropping frames even below that. If you stick with the standard of last gen UE5 isn't too bad, games in their graphics mode tend to run at basically locked 30fps and resolutions above 1080p even on the base Ps5/SX.
The standard also wasn't that small no name devs working with a AA budget could deliver games that look like this:
It's only once you combine UE5 with the increased expectations of 60fps that it really struggles (at least on consoles).
Personally these days I'll always prefer a game focusing on delivering 60fps with good IQ instead of graphics. But I still think that expecting UE5 to offer a generational leap in visuals, more accessibility to smaller devs AND also doubling the framerate compared to last gen while keeping high resolutions is pretty unfair.
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Signalis
Member
So far also the only game that uses the PS5 Pro as it's supposed to be used. No graphics mode toggle, 60+ FPS at quality mode(better graphics even than quality mode). Spent 150 hours on KCD2 on my PS5 Pro and it ran like a fucking dream
ScHlAuChi
Member
As a dev you can only choose between Unity, Unreal and Cryengine.
All the other ones are internal engines that cannot be licenced by external developers.
So what are all those other engines you are talking about?
RodriGames40
Member
I swear these threads will keep popping up well into next gen. It's a tool, and it's being continuously improved as we speak. I do hope UE6 isn't coming out anytime soon, in the other hand.
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Windom Earle
Member
I am pretty much boycotting anything that uses UE5 these days.
Guardian Monkey
Member
You can have a 5090 and your going to have issue with Borderlands 4 running well natively. Its clearly a problem with the engine/developers using it. It's too widespread with UE5 games not to suggest otherwise at this point.
Also your "recommended card" doesn't exist.
KenaiPhoenix
Member
The whole UE5 integration into every AAA game is just corpos trying to cheap up costs. These engines (like Unity) are great for small studios or middle size ones that wants to archive some high grade of fidelity without having to spent 1 years of resources in getting a good looking (and hopefully working) engine.
Epic, Unity and other can try to make a "one of everything" engine but that unrealistic, open world games benefits for different ways manage they workload than arena shooter, for example. Then there is also the side effect that, now that everything uses UE5, now everything will render similarly, in contrast to older games were each game had a "vibe" or "look" different, now everything will, at best, just a branch of how UE5 renders stuff.
Epic, Unity and other can try to make a "one of everything" engine but that unrealistic, open world games benefits for different ways manage they workload than arena shooter, for example. Then there is also the side effect that, now that everything uses UE5, now everything will render similarly, in contrast to older games were each game had a "vibe" or "look" different, now everything will, at best, just a branch of how UE5 renders stuff.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I was wondering when someone would use the "devs are lazy" argument. I'm sure it has nothing to do with budget, scope, pressure from management, publishers, complexity of games in general now, people's expectations, etc….
All has to do with laziness I guess. They just want to sit around and watch Netflix at the office all day.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
The solution is to license whatever the Japanese studios build, because my God - they are like 1000x better in terms of smooth performance. Just a different breed over there.
Though I guess I can't explain wtf happened with Monster Hunter Wilds.
Though I guess I can't explain wtf happened with Monster Hunter Wilds.
Wildebeest
Member
Necessity is the mother of invention. If devs don't have to optimize their game so it runs smoothly they will not. If they don't have to optimize image quality so it doesn't look blurry and smeary with artifacts everywhere they will not.
freemandos
Member
Well, the solution would be a engine rivaling with it. In another words, a more direct competition. The problem is...its rival in the past was id tech and, well, things changed after id tech 3.
ResilientBanana
Member
I've said this in other gaming threads. This is a compound issue.
You can teach people how to use a game engine and its tools, but that doesn't mean they inherently know how to design and be technical. So a lot of the issues with Unreal Engine may reside in how a lot of studios are designing their games within UE and not building the right subsystems to make them efficient.
Secondly, rather than getting good, a lot of developers are relying on AI with technologies such as DLSS and FSR to inject frames and utilize resolution scaling to accommodate their brute force methods and lack of technical knowledge. Which is ironic because they are fearful and also are very much losing their jobs to AI while also relying on it on a day to day basis.
UE and Unity are very much a sandbox but not the whole story. Developers can build subsystems within the main engine to make it their own.
I wish more developers simply made their own engines.
You can teach people how to use a game engine and its tools, but that doesn't mean they inherently know how to design and be technical. So a lot of the issues with Unreal Engine may reside in how a lot of studios are designing their games within UE and not building the right subsystems to make them efficient.
Secondly, rather than getting good, a lot of developers are relying on AI with technologies such as DLSS and FSR to inject frames and utilize resolution scaling to accommodate their brute force methods and lack of technical knowledge. Which is ironic because they are fearful and also are very much losing their jobs to AI while also relying on it on a day to day basis.
UE and Unity are very much a sandbox but not the whole story. Developers can build subsystems within the main engine to make it their own.
I wish more developers simply made their own engines.
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Durin
Member
Completely disagree, because the position asserts that these game engines will just keep retaining these issues.
Epic doesn't make money from people just using the engine and releasing bad selling product, since they only take a percentage cut when a certain revenue threshold is hit. They have every incentive to improve the engine so games sell more copies, and then they start making money off them. The last few version updates are starting to address these issues, and the CD Projekt Red collaboration will likely yield improvements to rendering dense open-worlds. Some of these problems are also likely documentation issues for proper practices to be widely known.
Even if the engine were somehow not to improve, the more games that flounder with bad performance, the more hardware improvements are stagnating...it will force a corrective change at some point for devs to lower their graphical ambition to retain performance. Proprietary engines like REEngine from Capcom also exhibit similar issues, so some of this is just core tech industry trends.
Epic doesn't make money from people just using the engine and releasing bad selling product, since they only take a percentage cut when a certain revenue threshold is hit. They have every incentive to improve the engine so games sell more copies, and then they start making money off them. The last few version updates are starting to address these issues, and the CD Projekt Red collaboration will likely yield improvements to rendering dense open-worlds. Some of these problems are also likely documentation issues for proper practices to be widely known.
Even if the engine were somehow not to improve, the more games that flounder with bad performance, the more hardware improvements are stagnating...it will force a corrective change at some point for devs to lower their graphical ambition to retain performance. Proprietary engines like REEngine from Capcom also exhibit similar issues, so some of this is just core tech industry trends.
We have more and better looking games especially on the indie side than we've ever had because of UE4/5. To say its causing the decay of the industry is nonsense. Despite its issues its given developers more power and flexibility than they would have had with most other engines (including its main competitor Unity which is nowhere near as capable).
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Liopleurodon
Member
More Unreal engine.
Use fire to fight fire.
Use fire to fight fire.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
everything is causing the decay of the industry according to you fucks
just chill out and play some games ffs
just chill out and play some games ffs
FinalBossWithTheMostPower
Member
Felessan
Member
All you can do is to not by UE5 games. Doubtly it will stop devs from usings it.
And you have to understand behind the scene workings to properly judge things. Like as it was already explained about RT and baked lightning - RT is practically unavoidable in the future for game using dynamics environment (day/night circle, weather, dynamics lights etc) as baking cost baloon too fast in this scenario. And as market likes dynamics environment, it feel more immersive, some performance hits will be inevitable.
Sorry, but no. Laymans have no say in technical or science stuff.
Some trully believe in aliens and flat earth - doesn't make it true. Same for technical stuff if you don't know how it work or implications regarding it, you have no say about it.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Pretty much all in-house engines run great in the end. Be it EA's Frostbite, CDPR's REDengine, Guerilla's Decima engine, 4A engine, id tech, Forza tech, etc.
When a studio has or had the access to an in-house engine and they switch to UE5, it means they are chasing cheap labour countries to work on the project. It's the most known engine out there. UE5 is an ecosystem much more than an engine. They sell the idea you don't need the nerds inside the studio to take care and control what goes in for the performance and anyone can help you code the game even cheap labour countries because there's so much documentation, forums and youtube videos for help, get rid of all those senior devs you had, especially the inhouse engine nerds which are super expensive and make a nice cost saving!
That's how it works.
dgrdsv
Member
Highly CPU limited, bad RT implementation, has quite a last gen look overall with low geo complexity and apparent LODs.
I do wonder sometime if people hating on UE5 have actually played games made on other engines as much as they suggest.
The problem with UE5 isn't in the engine, it's in the approach of the developers to the engine where studios simply don't invest enough in their own programming thinking that the engine will "automagically" handle everything they'll through on it.
Shubh_C63
Member
EPIC and Nvidia must be in cahoots. While they make engine easier for developers it allows them to cut corners making for an inefficient result compared to not utilizing tools provided by Unreal Engine, take even more months to understand and possibly have slightly better end result.
Developers win. Production time is less. People can be hired/fired at will. And Nvidia can jack up the prices more to compensate for less efficient engine.
There is nothing a Pot user can do if the only Potter in town decides to use clay instead of ceramics.
Developers win. Production time is less. People can be hired/fired at will. And Nvidia can jack up the prices more to compensate for less efficient engine.
There is nothing a Pot user can do if the only Potter in town decides to use clay instead of ceramics.
xrnzaaas
Member
The damage is done and there's no easy fix unfortunately. You can't expect even bigger studios to create their own engines, best we can hope for is that they'll stick with their existing ones instead of abandoning them and switching to UE (like CDPR).
Epic needs to be pressured to make big changes either to UE5 or (more likely) UE6 with optimization as one of the main priorities, not even more demanding tech.
Epic needs to be pressured to make big changes either to UE5 or (more likely) UE6 with optimization as one of the main priorities, not even more demanding tech.
Madserb2023
Member
While there might be legitimate issues with the engine such as an inability to handle open worlds particularly well. That seems to be across the board. I think developers are to a degree not really thinking what actually makes sense for their game. Does Borderlands 4 need nanite when it has simple geometry or lumen when lighting is son exaggerated. Probably not. Could probably have achieved it on Unreal 4.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Hi Randy
crackajack
Member
Customers have to answer with their wallets if devs either are not capable anymore, which I doubt, or are not given the required time to optimise it, which is probably always the case and imho more likely. With sales moving more and more towards digital, delays will be less and less with consequences beyond some impatient players that rather betatest a mediocre game than wait for the polished good game.
