The modern prison system, used for the last few centuries, was indeed invented primarily for rehabilitation. Prisons were previously used for holding prisoners until trial and/or sentencing could be carried out.
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Up: 94 year old former SS-Guard convicted for Auschwitz
- Thread starter Chariot
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The modern prison system, used for the last few centuries, was indeed invented primarily for rehabilitation. Prisons were previously used for holding prisoners until trial and/or sentencing could be carried out.
Not really. There are numerous cases where the guilty has got lesser sentences than expected due to their good track record. And comparatively to men, women also get lesser sentences for committing same crime.
Sarcasm.
so what if he was a true believer? he's 94 fucking years old, he can't walk under his own power. he's not hurting anybody. no point in incarcerating him.
WickedCobra03
Member
Basically this. It's kind of a waste, he is not actively doing anything that is promoting.
Moff
Member
you would have to define what you mean by "participating"
the reason his trial in the 80s was discontinued was because they could not prove that he actually commited any crime.
knowing about the holocaust is not a crime, not doing something against the holocaust is not a crime, being a corward witthout a backbone is not a crime. hell, even thinking mass murdering people is good is not a crime.
what they are now doing is just prosecuting people for the assumption they commited a crime. and that's just something I cannot approve. in dubio pro reo needs to hold even for the most obvious criminials or it has no worth at all.
I wish there was justice for all war criminals period!
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
Is brain washing a factor in these cases? It's absolutely despicable, but I'm curious. Also, how much of a choice were these Nazi positions?
When it comes to murder, especially the alleged participation in genocide justice has no time limit. Tell me, let's say he murdered his wife or just his next door neighbor and nobody figured it out until 80 years later should he just be allowed to walk free?
Children are not granted the same privileges as adults because they are not considered to be responsible enough to use them. By that standard, we cannot hold them to the same standard as adults in court.
The elderly have the privileges of adults, so there is no good reason to exempt them from the process.
There has been no allegation that he participated in genocide.
Bubba_Sparks
Member
What a waste of time! The dude is 94 and prosecuting him is not bringing any justice nor is it doing anything for the greater good of society. The Nazi's were defeated 70 years ago. Everyone who fought on the German side represented the Nazi's and contributed to the atrocities knowingly or not, but only the people at the very top who created this ideology should have been held responsible. If it weren't for them these crimes never would have been committed.
PeskyToaster
Member
By saying no? by not joining the army? The Nazis were too few to effectively control the nation through force. They relied on active participation of the general population to achieve their aims. Previous Nazi efforts like the Jewish business boycott and the T4 program were shutdown due to public outcry. Even those involved in the execution squads were allowed to say no. If only they did but they made their choice and humanity suffered for it.
Deified Data
Banned
There is literally nothing he could have done.
None of that would have stopped the genocide, though.
my opinion? absolutely.
perfectchaos007
Member
I guess there's no statute of limitations in Deutschland?
He couldn't do anything, but he could have chose to not participate in it.
He's being tried for 300,000 counts of murder, so yeah they are alleging he somehow participated in the genocide. A trial will prove whether such allegations are true or false.
He didn't, he was a bag checker.
A. Source?
B. If this is true, why do you think this is ideal?
Wow. GAF never fails to impress me.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Do you think such a thing could be proven?
DoktorEvil
Banned
At his age, he'll be lucky to serve 1 and will be released.
I think the circumstances of how he came to join the Army and the Nazis should play a role in this sentencing for war crimes.
I would have much less sympathy for someone who voluntarily wanted to commit wartime atrocities in the name of Germany.
there's no point in putting decrepit old murderers in jail.
Jeevesmeister
Banned
What would BJ Blazkowicz do?
Fuck him. Nazi scum. Normally I'd say let it go but Nazism is the special exception. Master race that wanted to rule the world for all eternity? You get to be pursued by the wheels of justice for all eternity.
This times a thousand. You all could learn something from Don't Be A Sucker.
Well asked to be moved from the whole environment to a different post.
Wrong, there is a point it's just one that personally doesn't hold much weight to you. The argument for many people would be that Justice is served by ensuring that no criminal, especially an alleged murderer, escapes the law no matter how long it takes for them to be caught.
Ever heard of DNA evidence? It's what has allowed people rotting in jail for decades to finally be exonerated.
Barrel Cannon
Member
I feel slightly bad for laughing at this lol.
At best try him, convict him, then send him back home. Locking him up is a waste of money, what's it going to do? Punish him? He's 94, the likelihood is any prison would basically just turn into a nursing home anyway...not like the foods any different between them. Is he meant to learn something? Pretty sure he's not going to learn something in 3 years he hasn't learned in the last 70? For the principle of the thing? Who are we demonstrating it to? Again, if you were 18 when the war ended you are 88 now...
What he saw, and allowed to happen was beyond abhorrent.
...but at some point we have to admit that any action we take is pointless unless you want revenge...at which point you might want to look at yourself instead of him.
What he saw, and allowed to happen was beyond abhorrent.
...but at some point we have to admit that any action we take is pointless unless you want revenge...at which point you might want to look at yourself instead of him.
cm osi
Member
i do not wish pain and suffering on anyone. got a problem?
I'd rather look at proof he did something than proof that general atrocities were committed at the camp. I mean establishing he has victims and appealing people to look for horrific photos seems a bit emotionally manipulative.
Omegasquash
Member
"Sorry, holocaust survivor. It wouldn't serve a purpose to society to jail someone who knowingly played a small part in the murder of your entire family. We have to think of our budget and whether or not it will rehabilitate him."
Look at the US stats for a second. Prison as a punishment is a fucking terrible philoshophy and does nothing to deter other criminals.
Do you get to do that in any military?
Veritigo_X
Member
He was an accomplice to the crimes committed at Auschwitz. I'm under the opinion that if someone actively helps a crime occur they should be prosecuted for it. He did more than just know about the holocaust. He was SS for christ sakes.
He's not going to escape being dead in like a year. what does society stand to gain by jailing old helpless men?
Agent Gibbs
Member
Ah the same guy who testified against the nazi's after the war at nuremburg, aided the alies, took part in numerous documentaries over the years and whilst there was so disgusted he requested transferring anywhere else (including the front and certain death)
This was a man who joined his national army after being caught up in the propaganda not realising the full horror of what they were, joined what the propaganda considered the elite branch of the military. Then when placed at this death camp and learning the full horror of what his country was doing he requested an out, to go even to his own death and refused. He then completed his job for the short time left of the war (1944 he was sent there iirc)
this was a glorified admin assistant at a Auschwitz and up until this trial he was considered a source, a witness someone to go to for accounts from the german military side, someone so far down on the totem pole of people who deserved punishment he was rightfully ignored.
Now that all those who could be prosecuted who really should be brought to justice have been or died they are scraping the barrel seeking vengeance on anyone - this is vengeance now not justice, this man sought to atone for his 'sins' (of bearing witness and being in the army) and up to now it seemed everyone considered he had.
This was a man who joined his national army after being caught up in the propaganda not realising the full horror of what they were, joined what the propaganda considered the elite branch of the military. Then when placed at this death camp and learning the full horror of what his country was doing he requested an out, to go even to his own death and refused. He then completed his job for the short time left of the war (1944 he was sent there iirc)
this was a glorified admin assistant at a Auschwitz and up until this trial he was considered a source, a witness someone to go to for accounts from the german military side, someone so far down on the totem pole of people who deserved punishment he was rightfully ignored.
Now that all those who could be prosecuted who really should be brought to justice have been or died they are scraping the barrel seeking vengeance on anyone - this is vengeance now not justice, this man sought to atone for his 'sins' (of bearing witness and being in the army) and up to now it seemed everyone considered he had.
Moff
Member
but he did not do more than knowing, he did not actively help any crimes, at least they could not prove that in the 80s.
I tired that when I went to Iraq, didn't work.
Veritigo_X
Member
What was he doing there if he wasn't helping?
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