IrishNinja
Member
would you look at that? some jerk just bid it up to $50...
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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would you look at that? some jerk just bid it up to $50...
Ban Puncher
Member
Remember when you could find actual bargains and not overpriced BIN rat-shit looking crap listed as 'mint condition'?
It almost makes you want to get out of bed at the crack of dawn on a Saturday and go to yard sales.
Almost.
NormalFish
Banned
I enjoy your posts. Thought this was an appropriate time to let you know.
Ban Puncher
Member
IrishNinja
Member
Ban Puncher
Member
Playing Plok?
Gah... my Panasonic Plasma inexplicably died last night :'(
Not only was it great for HD content/games... it upscaled 480p (specifically Gamecube) like a champ... better than the Framemeister. Pour one out for it. It was only 4.5 years old.
I'm now shopping for a replacement, and to my horror, NONE of these new fucking HDTVs have component inputs. I'm heart broken </3.
Not only was it great for HD content/games... it upscaled 480p (specifically Gamecube) like a champ... better than the Framemeister. Pour one out for it. It was only 4.5 years old.
I'm now shopping for a replacement, and to my horror, NONE of these new fucking HDTVs have component inputs. I'm heart broken </3.
You're probably right. It feels like such a shit time to shop for a gaming-quality HDTV, especially if you like old gaming hardware.
Checking out the input lag database, the only HDTV I could find with component inputs with under 30ms of input lag was this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ISIFZNI/?tag=neogaf0e-20
It was rated at 29ms.
So, now I have a bit of a conundrum. Do I go with that set or a KDL? There's no guarantees that I'll even like the 480p upscaling by that Toshiba. It feels like a risk.
Does anyone have a better solution for 480p upscaling than the Mini? I'd feel a lot better going with the KDL if I found a really great dedicated 480p scaler. The mini just doesn't do it for me with 480p-native sources. And even though my receiver has component inputs, it looks like blurry butthole and heavily overscans the image when converting it to HDMI.
It's online for me. And yea, that's true... I also can't solve washed out colors with an external solution.
Edit: Nevermind, the KDL series does have component inputs. I ordered the Sony KDL55W800B. I couldn't justify going any bigger considering I only sit about 7.5 feet away, and the 60W850B costs $500 more for what will probably be too large at that distance.
When it arrives, I'll post some impressions on how it handles 480p and 480i via component.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
One thing that I've noticed between different resolutions/connections is that "medium" sharpness seems to vary.
1080p HDMI: 50% sharpness is ideal
1080p component: 25% sharpness is ideal
480p component: 50% sharpness is ideal
Those are rough measurements, anyway. I ran some test slides for this when I first set my 950B up.
Cool thanks for the info. How do you like your 950b?
lilralphie
Member
Thinking about taking the plunge. Is the framemeister the way to go? Where should I get one?
For most PS2 games, yes, those that support 480p will be better with component to avoid interlacing.
Well, it depends. I have a framemeister and love it and recently picked up a pvm. Your games will look infinetly better on an lcd with the framemeister, maybe even a little better imho than a pvm. However a pvm or good crt will give you a true image without input lag. I enjoy my pvm a little better because of that but it is not nearly as big as my lcd with the framemeister. Pvms are generally cheaper too. Either option is an excelkent choice.
If you decide to buy a framemeister, their is a gaffer by the name of Yakumo that sells them. He can also be found at assemblergames.com. i bought mine from him a couple of years ago, cheaoer than anyone else was selling.
lilralphie
Member
Yah I think a pvm would just be too small for me. I've pmed yakumo. Thanks!
sixteen-bit
Member
Yakumo is banned. The forum shouldn't allow you to PM him.
edit; lol I misread. I guess you PMed him on Assembler games and not on here.
Make sure its the same Yakumo as assemblergames. He is a mod over there....wonder why he was banned here?
theSlacker
Member
I think for advertising or something. When you get a ban as a jr, it's permanent.
Ban Puncher
Member
He posted a link to his YouTube series, Retro Core.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100775123&postcount=31
Somehow that earned him a big, fat ban. I've seen other people self-promote who were luckier.
I have bought a couple of things off him in the past including my Framemeister.
baphomet
Member
Yea, it sucks he got banned. He seems like a good guy and he's been a mod at assembler as long as ive been there which is damn near 10 years now.
RoryDropkick
Member
Absolutely, Yakumo is a great guy, I love watching his Battle of The Ports videos and I used to watch Retro Core back in the day, I used to record it onto VCD and play it on my Saturn *lol*
baphomet
Member
Retro Core is great, but I hate that battle of the ports is just a bunch of emulator videos. It would be significantly better if it were using actual hardware in my opinion.
Huggers
Member
Hey Baphomet. Just checking you got my dm?
theSlacker
Member
I assume he just got caught at a bad time since a mod was locking that thread and he was a junior so the ban was auto permanent.
So is there a particular scart cable I should look for for the PS2? The US PS2 slim supports rgb/scart out of the box right?
Also for PS1 games in particular how drastic is the difference between PS2->RGB->Framemeister compared to PS2->Component->Framemeister? Couldn't really find any good comparison videos on youtube.
Also for PS1 games in particular how drastic is the difference between PS2->RGB->Framemeister compared to PS2->Component->Framemeister? Couldn't really find any good comparison videos on youtube.
It's not drastic. They have almost equal sharpness but RGB has slightly more accurate colors. The colors aren't oversaturated and look more pure via RGB.
This seller is the best for RGB cables:
http://www.ebay.com/usr/retro_console_accessories
Be careful though. PS1 games via RGB look perfect into the framemeister. PS2 games on the other hand don't look good to me. The Framemeister isn't as good as my old (now broken) HDTV's internal scaler for 480i and 480p content. I strictly try to use the FM only for 240p sources, other than Dreamcast (but that's a unique case because my HDTV doesn't have VGA input).
So for PS2, I prefer:
PS1 content -> RGB cable -> Framemeister.
PS2 content -> 1st party component cable -> straight to HDTV
And yes, I use a PS2 slim. It supports RGB out of the box. It's also worth noting that Fudoh (who is a great authority on upscaling techniques) plugs his PS2 directly into his HDTV with first party component cables as well, and doesn't bother with external upscaling for PS2 content.
Thats the most important part for me so I may just make due with component->Framemeister. Less cable switching anyways. That being said with linking retro_console_accessories - I've never actually seen her selling any PS1/PS2 RGB cables. Just older stuff
Whifflebat
Member
I'm hoping Retro-GAF can help me. I've got 4 systems hooked up to a 27'' JVC CRT, 2 using composite and 2 using s-video.
NES (composite)
Genesis (composite)
SNES (S-video)
N64 (S-video)
All 4 are going through a Nexxtech 4 way selector box (bought last year at The Source in Canada). I was able to get all 4 working when testing individually, but when using the systems and switching between them, something messes up and the video signal doesn't appear for most systems now.
I'm wondering if the issue is either the selector box or the TV having trouble parsing between the s-video and composite video signals. Is this typically a problem? One strange thing is that the SNES was working fine and now when I switch inputs on the TV to the box, I see a flash of the correct video, but then it goes to a blue screen.
Do I need to get a second a/v selector box, one for my composite systems and one for s-video? Help!
NES (composite)
Genesis (composite)
SNES (S-video)
N64 (S-video)
All 4 are going through a Nexxtech 4 way selector box (bought last year at The Source in Canada). I was able to get all 4 working when testing individually, but when using the systems and switching between them, something messes up and the video signal doesn't appear for most systems now.
I'm wondering if the issue is either the selector box or the TV having trouble parsing between the s-video and composite video signals. Is this typically a problem? One strange thing is that the SNES was working fine and now when I switch inputs on the TV to the box, I see a flash of the correct video, but then it goes to a blue screen.
Do I need to get a second a/v selector box, one for my composite systems and one for s-video? Help!
Thats the most important part for me so I may just make due with component->Framemeister. Less cable switching anyways. That being said with linking retro_console_accessories - I've never actually seen her selling any PS1/PS2 RGB cables. Just older stuff
I highly recommend you wait for that and don't go with component.
If you do go with component, I'd only settle for 1st party component cables. Most Playstation component cables by third parties are utter shit and produce noisy signals.
Whifflebat, what's the wire going from the selector box to your tv? I'm not certain whether a composite signal can be passed through a s-video cable or vice versa. It may just pay to have two selector boxes.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
How is the box hooked up to the TV?
Whifflebat
Member
Via composite and s-video. I had assumed the box or the TV would be able to figure out which input was currently displaying a signal depending on which device was selected, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
thanks to my new setup (HDCP stripper ftw), i now have more options to connect consoles and still be able to record.
tomorrow i'm gonna try out the Wii directly to see how it stacks against the FM. will also grab some screenshots. this Wii has a Wii2HDMI adapter so it should be interesting to see how it reacts.
also, on a different note, is there a guide to calibrate Samsung TVs to the best they can be? i've done some calibration but all based on what i see.
tomorrow i'm gonna try out the Wii directly to see how it stacks against the FM. will also grab some screenshots. this Wii has a Wii2HDMI adapter so it should be interesting to see how it reacts.
also, on a different note, is there a guide to calibrate Samsung TVs to the best they can be? i've done some calibration but all based on what i see.
Just Putting it out there that I'd find it particularly interesting to see Wii Vs. Wii U on Wii games picture quality. Wii has. Very soft look to edges and I'd like to see if the Wii U fixes that.
GayForMaster
Banned
Does anyone know if there's an option within the menu of a Sony PVM 20L5 to increase the width/height of the image? I can't seem to find anything like that.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Sorry for getting in with the discussion about PS2 rgb/component
I have a Framemeister and considering the RGB port is already used by Saturn, I was thinking to buy the D-Terminal cable to hook up my PS2
there is some particular difference between component and D-Terminal ?
I know the latter is only used in Japan and also I know there are some component --> D-Terminal adapters, but I would like to avoid that solution
Also I can't hook up PS2 direclty to the monitor cause it just has 1 VGA (used by PC) and 2 HDMI (one used by Framemeister and one by PS3)
I have a Framemeister and considering the RGB port is already used by Saturn, I was thinking to buy the D-Terminal cable to hook up my PS2
there is some particular difference between component and D-Terminal ?
I know the latter is only used in Japan and also I know there are some component --> D-Terminal adapters, but I would like to avoid that solution
Also I can't hook up PS2 direclty to the monitor cause it just has 1 VGA (used by PC) and 2 HDMI (one used by Framemeister and one by PS3)
Ban Puncher
Member
When I got my Framemeister, I also ordered a D-Terminal to Component cable for a few extra bucks so I could hook up my PS2 and Wii via component. Much more cost effective than buying propriety D-Terminal connections when component cables are much more widely available and cheaper.
Moor-Angol
Banned
if it's just a price thing, it's not important, I can find here in Japan both cables (but the adapter could need more researches); I was wondering if one is better than the other, even if as far as I understand they are almost indentical
I prefer the Wii U to he Framemeister. Wii U upscales very sharply... some would say almost too sharply. But I think it looks pretty good.
FM sucks at upscaling from 480p in my opinion. Plus, it adds frames of lag for no real benefit. I'd stick to your HDTV's native scaler or the Wii U for Wii games.
Heh. Well the framemeister wasn't even a question since I just flat out hate the Wii's video output. No upscaling in any device can rid it of the soft image it produces.
However, Wii U has updated hardware that outputs over HDMI and to my eyes it does indeed have better color separation, but I can't say that it's not some thing I'm perceiving wrong do to the upscaling.
I recently purchased a strange cable for $2.50 from a local electronics shop that looks to be a VGA to BNC (RGB with three-leads). It was unlabeled and in a bin with other misc. cables, and I thought I may be able to use is to connect my Dreamcast (via VGA adapter) to my PVM and/or Panasonic Professional Plasma (TH-42PH30U) with BNC, and free up the VGA input.
When connected to my PVM, I get an unstable image, which leads me to believe there is a sync-issue. (Since there are only three-leads, I am to assume that sync is on G?) I haven't tried messing around with the sync-options in the menu, so this may be a possible solution...
When connected to my Plasma, I see the blue screen on my DC that prompts me to set the time/date (battery is dead) in proper colour and orientation for about a split-second, and then the screen goes completely black, never to return.
I realize that I am not giving you guys much to work with here, but any idea as to what is up? Why won't this cable just work?? Lol If nothing at all displayed, I'd be at peace with having spent $2.50 on a faulty/incorrect cable, but the flash of a seemingly working image on my plasma, only to disappear has given me a glimmer of hope that it actually may work in this setup.
FWIW, my Dreamcast and VGA box both work perfectly, and I don't have any issues with my Plasma accepting the DC via VGA. I was also able to connect my DC to my PVM via S-Video without issue. My PVM is a Sony PVM-14M2U
Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
When connected to my PVM, I get an unstable image, which leads me to believe there is a sync-issue. (Since there are only three-leads, I am to assume that sync is on G?) I haven't tried messing around with the sync-options in the menu, so this may be a possible solution...
When connected to my Plasma, I see the blue screen on my DC that prompts me to set the time/date (battery is dead) in proper colour and orientation for about a split-second, and then the screen goes completely black, never to return.
I realize that I am not giving you guys much to work with here, but any idea as to what is up? Why won't this cable just work?? Lol If nothing at all displayed, I'd be at peace with having spent $2.50 on a faulty/incorrect cable, but the flash of a seemingly working image on my plasma, only to disappear has given me a glimmer of hope that it actually may work in this setup.
FWIW, my Dreamcast and VGA box both work perfectly, and I don't have any issues with my Plasma accepting the DC via VGA. I was also able to connect my DC to my PVM via S-Video without issue. My PVM is a Sony PVM-14M2U
Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
Maybe? There is a physical-button on the PVM itself for Ext. Sync if I recall, and I tried it with it on and off.
Those cables are made for some specific projector equipment that can receive a component signal through a VGA port. The Dreamcast doesn't support sync on green so that cable is not going to work, because you are lacking a sync signal. The "flash of working image" probably came from a very slight sync signal being interpolated from the green channel, but then wasn't stable enough to carry on.
So you're saying I wasted $2.50?? Ha
Thanks for your response. What does the DC sync on? Assuming I want to go from VGA to RGB (via BNC) for at least my PVM, would I need a cable with four leads?
baphomet
Member
Your pvm won't support VGA. Dreamcast is RGBHV so you would have 5 cables. A separate horizontal and vertical sync cables.
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