-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
You can wire the installation in such a way that you can have the option to toggle between the NESRGB and original composite, but I'm not sure of any way to get them both running at the same time.
300+.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The parts needed are less than $100.
Ha, ha,I actually read that wrong, lol. 300 is for premodded NES, while it's far less for separate parts.
Noisepurge
Member
A buddy just bought a console for 160.
But yeah, expensive parts and a high difficulty mod. If you're not "wizard" level with a soldering iron it's worth it to pay someone for the work hours
I was under the impression that it's a complete kit. Can i buy the parts separately? If so, where can i buy them? Is there a DIY guide somewhere?
The way I do it is I have the video going into my capture card, which has a passthrough output that I hook to my BVM. You would need a capture card that can do RGB though, which there are only a few (and not the cheap ones that you see in the US very often).
You could also split the signal from the console, with one going to the PVM and one going to a capture card, where you could use an upscaler or something to get HDMI to the capture card.
Or you could possibly use the outputs of the PVM, but you would still need an upscaler to get to HDMI for the capturing or a proper RGB capture card, same as the other solutions.
So basically, there are a lot of ways to do it. I like the capture card passthrough as Im not certain that the BVM passes through video when its not on, and more often than not my computer is already on so it just works easier, if that makes sense.
Check my setup. Looks messy, but I keep it as organized as possible. Still a bit daunting every time I go back there. Twisting BNC plugs in and out is very cramped and tough.
Not seen: the console scart cables connected to the BNC adapter in the pic, the adapter's audio plugs connected to Extron audio cables (row of black cables below the RGBS).
Thanks for your input. It seems like it'll be quite difficult, at least compared to some of my friends who stream retro games. They're mostly using Elgato capture device and composite connections, whereas I have every console on RGB scart wired to my scart switch device and from there on to my PVM.
Can you give me some additional information on that passthrough capture card? How could I equip it in my situation?
It depends on your computer. I use an internal card, so I use the Micomsoft sc-512n1-l/dvi. Can handle 240pRGB right to 1080p60HDMI. It is awesome. The alternative is the X-Capture 1, which is basically the usb version of the card, but I dont have any experience with it.
What kind of connections would I need? If I assume correctly, I would have to run a cable from the switchbox to the capture card and then from the card to the PVM? Would the picture quality suffer from the loop?
You could try this seller, I got a pretty good Sega Saturn scart cable from her.
Thanks, I was eyeing that one but wasn't sure if it was junk from a shady seller. I'll give it a go.
There are no cheap Gamecube component cables. Only the official ones and they cost a ton because of the custom digital to analog chip directly on the cable that no third party has replicated yet.
It would depend on your setup and the cables you are using. You may need a sync stripper for the capture card, not sure how the PVM handles sync yet so I havent messed with it much. But that is the basic idea. Quality should be perfect, its just passing the video through
Other solutions are very nearly done, last I heard, but it likely wont be as easy as a cable in most cases.
I read about an internal mod a while ago. Have any links to what's on the way?
geniusbits
Member
Take a look for the OZone HDMi board, its goal is to be used for multiple consoles which makes it neat. There are a few GC specific projects that Im forgetting too. Either way, it looks like solutions will come eventually, at last!
Thanks, I'll take a look. Any solution is welcome at this point. The component cable usually goes for around $250 and getting more desperate as time passes. I look for them every now and then and have to talk myself out of getting one, although that one's not too hard to put out of mind. It's a damn cable at console prices.
He's not shady at all, don't worry. He gave me tons of useful informations about C-Sync RGB cables for the Saturn, when I stumbled upon a few problems with mine (which I bought from RetroGamingCables, btw) last summer. And on top of that, I found the cable I ended up buying from him noticeably better quality than RGC's one.
That said - according to the region of your DC and the kind of games you're gonna play the most - if you're looking for an easy, all-in-one solution, you may want an S-Video cable for you console, as there are several NTSC games that aren't compatible with RGB.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
You could maybe get a cheap desolder bulb+wick and practice desoldering DIP chips with a worthless board or chip+board you put together yourself, but even with that you could ruin your PPU/NES. Using a desolder gun is recommended since it's a lot easier and a lot less stress on the board, but they're fairly pricey.
Huggers
Member
I think as mods go it's quite tricky. I did my Saturn mod which required a bit of messing about and soldering but I wouldn't go near a NES mod. Too tricky
speedlolita
Member
The only tricky bit of the NESRGB install is removing the PPU - which in itself is very simple. I'd say a PS2 modchip install is harder.
You could get a basic desolder "gun" or "tool" or whatever, or be smart about braid and a pump and get the job done.
You could get a basic desolder "gun" or "tool" or whatever, or be smart about braid and a pump and get the job done.
Noisepurge
Member
If you haven't done any soldering projects, do not attempt the NES RGB mod
Start with a Megadrive region switcher or something similar.
Huggers
Member
Depends very much on your technical ability. I wouldn't go near it. Plus you need to start cutting the plastic etc. Easier for a lot of people to pay to get it done
speedlolita
Member
Best to install in an AV Famicom - then you're not cutting any plastic!
Unless you want a palette switch... Which I didn't bother with for my friend's one. haha
Unless you want a palette switch... Which I didn't bother with for my friend's one. haha
I went ahead and got it already but good to have extra assurance it's a quality cable. But I had no idea that RGB compatibility on a per game basis was a thing! I'll look into buying an s-video cable as backup. Thanks for the heads up.
You probably know this but just to avoid any bad purchases... You want a scart switch: plug multiple devices for one input display. A splitter is for your one connected device to output to multiple displays.
You can buy a few Hama switches and chain them together with little or no degradation. Probably the cheapest option. Or if you wanna burn through your money and sanity, do what I did and get an Extron.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=187181916&postcount=11712
sixteen-bit
Member
Shou's RGB out mod for Lynx
http://shoutime.tumblr.com/post/134308894563/finally-after-26-years-atari-lynx-is-playable
http://shoutime.tumblr.com/post/134308894563/finally-after-26-years-atari-lynx-is-playable
How the hell?
geniusbits
Member
Do you need SCART>BNC adapters for each console?do what I did and get an Extron.
Huggers
Member
No. Consoles>Scart Switch>Scart to BNC>PVM/BVM
Guys. Is this cable going to work on the outputs of my BVM, going into a capture device? https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...out-scart-to-4-x-bnc--2-x-rca-converter-cable
He was asking about the Extron. Yes, you do need female scart>BNC breakout adapters for the Extron. And adapters with built-in LM1881 sync stripper if the consoles use composite sync or sync-on-luma because the Extron is picky about sync. And if you want audio switching (not necessary), you need to make or buy phoenix>RCA adapters to plug in the breakout adapter's RCA inputs.
It's costly (all the cables, not the Extron) but it's extremely versatile. When I was manually calibrating my new BVM with SNES 240p Suite, I had two other PVMs running the same program. I have 12 inputs (and already nearly used them all), and can output to 4 displays. Currently: 1 BVM with RGB, 8" PVM with RGB, 14" PVM with RGB, same 14" PVM with S-video.
I'm actually using one of the 12 inputs for a Hama scart switch for quickly plugging in stuff or as a temp solution since I need to get a few more breakout adapters to cover all the inputs. It's a bit odd to use a scart switch with a BNC matrix switch but I already had the Hama switch and its male scart>BNC breakout adapter from my previous console setup, so I figured I'd put it to use.
If you stick with S-Video for your entire setup, the Extron Mav S-video switch is a great option (cheap s-video cables).
Yeah. Select an input (NES, Genesis, etc), select one or more outputs (BVM, PVM, etc), press Enter. One game pops up across several monitors. It's neat.
If a console/input is hooked up for RGB, I obviously can't send it to the S-Video output and vice-versa. I have the one S-video output in place for Gamecube and possibly Dreamcast RGB-incompatible games.
I'm a little annoyed that it only has 4 outputs... the seller I bought it from erroneously advertised it as an Extron Crosspoint 128 (12 inputs, 8 outputs), but it was actually a 124. To his credit he was accommodating about a full refund return or a discount if kept, so I just kept it to avoid the shipping hassle.
If a console/input is hooked up for RGB, I obviously can't send it to the S-Video output and vice-versa. I have the one S-video output in place for Gamecube and possibly Dreamcast RGB-incompatible games.
I'm a little annoyed that it only has 4 outputs... the seller I bought it from erroneously advertised it as an Extron Crosspoint 128 (12 inputs, 8 outputs), but it was actually a 124. To his credit he was accommodating about a full refund return or a discount if kept, so I just kept it to avoid the shipping hassle.
Huggers
Member
So it's essentially an excellent Scart splitter. There's one on Ebay for 20 quid. I might grab it so I can capture whilst playing on my BVM more easily
geniusbits
Member
*an excellent switcher that requires mad cables
I would consider it but don't have many systems and don't like to switch back and forth a lot. I stick to playing one game for a while.
Yes, it is an excellent switcher and splitter of both video and audio. I don't mean to dissuade you, but do your homework first. This was not cheap or trivial and I'm still not done. I have only one adapter with sync stripper, so I alternate it with PS1, N64 and PCE Duo-R. I also need a couple more regular adapters for a few more systems tied to the Hama on input 12.
Just thinking ahead... I don't know anything about capture devices, but how do you plan to send your console's audio to both your speakers and your capture device? The Extron has audio outputs for your equipment, but you need the RCA adapters and they're either a pain to make yourself or hard to find (and expensive).
The cheaper option to pair with the Extron may be to get some kind of audio splitter which you may already have. I had a passive mixer (1 audio out only) before I got the above audio adapters.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0032ANC8M/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I94FAE/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Connecting a console with a Scart cable to the Extron requires this or a version with sync stripper for certain systems:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-to-4-...t-cable-for-Sony-PVM-by-RETRO-GAMING-CABLES-/
(No one makes straight console-to-BNC cables which would have mitigated costs and clutter...)
Can I see which model you're eyeing?
Just thinking ahead... I don't know anything about capture devices, but how do you plan to send your console's audio to both your speakers and your capture device? The Extron has audio outputs for your equipment, but you need the RCA adapters and they're either a pain to make yourself or hard to find (and expensive).
The cheaper option to pair with the Extron may be to get some kind of audio splitter which you may already have. I had a passive mixer (1 audio out only) before I got the above audio adapters.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0032ANC8M/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I94FAE/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Connecting a console with a Scart cable to the Extron requires this or a version with sync stripper for certain systems:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-to-4-...t-cable-for-Sony-PVM-by-RETRO-GAMING-CABLES-/
(No one makes straight console-to-BNC cables which would have mitigated costs and clutter...)
Can I see which model you're eyeing?
Huggers
Member
Yeah audio was concerning me somewhat. I hadn't got that far yet. The one I'm looking at is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291623101653?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
And yeah I already have the breakout cable for my BVM. What I ideally want is the ability to have 2 screens and a capture device all receiving the same signal
And yeah I already have the breakout cable for my BVM. What I ideally want is the ability to have 2 screens and a capture device all receiving the same signal
I'm not familiar with that one (seems the listing ended too). Looks like: one in, six out video splitter with no audio capability. I guess it'll do the trick, but it seems limited for the price and large size just to plug in one console. Regarding the adapter: most scart switches need a male scart > BNC breakout adapter. Since this adapter is going from your console's male-end scart cable, it should be female scart > BNC. Probably obvious but maybe worth mentioning.
Take a look at an Extron Crosspoint. You can get one for about the same price as the one you linked, with the only downside being that its bulkier from top to bottom but probably the same footprint. It has a lot more versatility. All the Crosspoints do the same thing and can handle composite, S-video, Component, RGBS, VGA/RGBHV. But newest to oldest model if it matters: Ultra, 450 Plus, 300 Series.
You may not use them, but check under the BNC connectors that it actually has the row of blue phoenix audio connectors (some don't). The buttons up front are always the same and not indicative of how many inputs/outputs you're getting.
- Status