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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Some hardcore motherfuckers itt.
Jeesus.
Jeesus.
Did you miss the picture I posted for you on the last page? FYI, no tangles, just an organized mess. Just below what you see in the pic are a swarm of stereo RCA cables (from each BNC breakout cable) plugged into the row of Extron audio adapters.
Oh yes, I saw it, but I had no idea what I was looking at lol
It didn't even cross my mind to link this picture to the extron talk either, but in my defence it's currently 2:30AM here and I really need to log off now
Do you have to like unplug everything starting from one side to get to that one faulty cable in the middle column? Everything is so tightly packed.
speedlolita
Member
GDI those things are relatively inexpensive too.
After using my PlayStation 2 directly into my PVM via component recently... That seems like a reasonable solution - although I only have like... 5-6 consoles connected at once max?
After using my PlayStation 2 directly into my PVM via component recently... That seems like a reasonable solution - although I only have like... 5-6 consoles connected at once max?
Got my PEXHDCAP and can capture in Component perfectly but am having trouble capturing RGB. Maybe someone on here has some some experience doing this.
My setup is like this:
Input:
Game Consoles -> Bandridge Scart Selector -> SCART Breakout to RGB BNC-> Extron System 8 Plus (switch) -> PVM 20L5
Output:
PVM 20L5 RGB Out -> RGB BNC to SCART Breakout cable -> Sync Strike -> VGA cable -> VGA to DVI adapter -> PEXHDCAP DVI Port
I just can not get RGB capture to work if I'm using the PVM outputs. If I plug the output SCART Cable from the Bandridge SCART Selector directly into the Sync Strike it works just fine though (aka it's not going to the PVM). I also notice that when it works the LED for the sync strike will be on even in the "off" position.
I am using the external power supply provided with the Sync Strike and it lights up when it is switched to on, so I'm not sure if maybe it has enough power for the LED but not enough to process the signal?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
My setup is like this:
Input:
Game Consoles -> Bandridge Scart Selector -> SCART Breakout to RGB BNC-> Extron System 8 Plus (switch) -> PVM 20L5
Output:
PVM 20L5 RGB Out -> RGB BNC to SCART Breakout cable -> Sync Strike -> VGA cable -> VGA to DVI adapter -> PEXHDCAP DVI Port
I just can not get RGB capture to work if I'm using the PVM outputs. If I plug the output SCART Cable from the Bandridge SCART Selector directly into the Sync Strike it works just fine though (aka it's not going to the PVM). I also notice that when it works the LED for the sync strike will be on even in the "off" position.
I am using the external power supply provided with the Sync Strike and it lights up when it is switched to on, so I'm not sure if maybe it has enough power for the LED but not enough to process the signal?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
NormalFish
Banned
this is pretty much my take on the entire thread lmao.
D.Lo
Member
Haha wait until you see people with multiple supergun setups.
I don't use PVMs so I can't help you there. Maybe you should trying powering the Sync Strike on the scart switch.
georgetheplushie
Member
When I tried to use my PVM's video out to capture my RGB signal with one of these cheap upscalers using a method quite similar to yours, it just wouldn't accept the RGB signal through the upscaler. Like your problem though, I could hook the SCART connector directly from my console, and the upscaler would function properly.
It wasn't until someone in this thread linked this video (or maybe the previous video where he was trying to figure out the problem) that I discovered that the issue lied with the RGB blanking pin on the SCART connector. All the video and audio feeds get broken out into BNC, but the feed that would tell a television or monitor that the signal is RGB just dies when you use a BNC breakout cable.
My solution (because I had already spent so much time, effort, and money) to the problem instead of admitting defeat and buying a SCART distributor, was to fashion a patch-through cable out of a 3.5mm audio extension cable. I cut the cable in half, soldered the wire up to the RGB blanking pin and appropriate ground pin (you could honestly probably get away with a mono cable and not wire up the ground) on both of my SCART connectors. Once I plugged the two ends of the cable together, the issue was solved. I imagine your problem is similar if not identical.
entremet
Member
Yep lol.
Sorry I should have clarified, Sync Strike does work when powered through SCART.
Wow! Thank you so much! This is amazing and is just what I was looking for. You rock!
speedlolita
Member
So I made a little progress with my Super Famicom sound isolation.
Basically the difference between tapping audio directly from the DAC (SHVC-SOUND pinout pins 21 and 22) and from the AV port is that there is a low pass filter between the two.
The audio sounds way better with the low pass filter in place.
So I installed the 3.5mm phono jack where the RF out used to be, and hooked up pins 11 and 12 to it from the AV port. I then went a step further and isolated the pins... Which I don't actually think is necessary. Can always be reconnected I guess!
Anyway, really minor mod in the end but gives me a nice audio source to feed my integrated amplifier.
Edit: Could just put a DPDT switch in the back to toggle audio on and off at the AV port I guess!
Basically the difference between tapping audio directly from the DAC (SHVC-SOUND pinout pins 21 and 22) and from the AV port is that there is a low pass filter between the two.
The audio sounds way better with the low pass filter in place.
So I installed the 3.5mm phono jack where the RF out used to be, and hooked up pins 11 and 12 to it from the AV port. I then went a step further and isolated the pins... Which I don't actually think is necessary. Can always be reconnected I guess!
Anyway, really minor mod in the end but gives me a nice audio source to feed my integrated amplifier.
Edit: Could just put a DPDT switch in the back to toggle audio on and off at the AV port I guess!
entremet
Member
MLiG just released their CRT/PVM RGB video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAi8AVj9GV8
This one is 22 minutes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAi8AVj9GV8
This one is 22 minutes!
Some phono jacks have an integrated switch, which automatically shuts off the audio line when a cable is plugged in. Like this one for example: http://www.daweiele.com/en/product.php?action=item&id=237 but they exist in many different shapes.
speedlolita
Member
Huh, that's really neat actually.
Installing one of those where the current jack is installed would be a little tricky though!
Does nobody make their own SCART to BNC? I like how they introduced PVMs though. lol
^You have instructions for making them? May be a fun(?) weekend project for me.
I like the content these guys put out, but I can't stand the way they talk. Coury has some sort of Valley Girl accent that's really distracting. Tryumph's weird cadence is slow as molasses, as if his speech fluctuates and drops down to 0.7x normal speed (which has a strong hint of sounding like he's talking down to a slow audience). Really makes them a little unbearable and their videos difficult to enjoy.
I like the content these guys put out, but I can't stand the way they talk. Coury has some sort of Valley Girl accent that's really distracting. Tryumph's weird cadence is slow as molasses, as if his speech fluctuates and drops down to 0.7x normal speed (which has a strong hint of sounding like he's talking down to a slow audience). Really makes them a little unbearable and their videos difficult to enjoy.
speedlolita
Member
It is common sense really.
I removed the mono (left) sound line from mine the other day as I don't need it now but all you need is a female SCART plug and some BNC plugs.
For sync, connect the middle of the BNC to pin 20 and the shield to pin 17.
For red, connect the middle of the BNC to pin 15 and the shield to pin 13.
For green, connect the middle of the BNC to pin 11 and the shield to pin 9.
For blue, connect the middle of the BNC to pin 7 and the shield to pin 5.
And you're done, for video. For cable, I just recycled a PlayStation composite cable - easily sufficient enough quality.
I mean, those SCART to BNC cables are like £13 now from retrogamingcables, but they used to be £30! Not such a good deal if you ask me.
Huggers
Member
Got the output working on my BVM. Now have a perfect RGB signal that I can send to a capture device whilst simultaneously playing on the BVM. Thought I might need a voltage but it works fine. Now to get a proper capture device because upscaling to HDMI for the Elgato HD isn't ideal
Also. I see there is now an Atari 2600 RGB mod. Anyone know where I might buy one pre modded?
Also. I see there is now an Atari 2600 RGB mod. Anyone know where I might buy one pre modded?
entremet
Member
^You have instructions for making them? May be a fun(?) weekend project for me.
I like the content these guys put out, but I can't stand the way they talk. Coury has some sort of Valley Girl accent that's really distracting. Tryumph's weird cadence is slow as molasses, as if his speech fluctuates and drops down to 0.7x normal speed (which has a strong hint of sounding like he's talking down to a slow audience). Really makes them a little unbearable and their videos difficult to enjoy.
Never bothered me. The productions is off the charts compared to most YT tripe, along with being informative.
But these guys are also professional video editors I believe, so it make sense.
speedlolita
Member
That's a really specific, strange thing to be picky about I find.
They're well produced, informative videos as entrement says. Good for people getting into the hobby!
They're well produced, informative videos as entrement says. Good for people getting into the hobby!
geniusbits
Member
I love MLiG! It seems like Euros don't like their accents, on this thread people were talking mess about Try's pronunciation of "composite." I find it endearing, they seem like real deal nerds who played these games as kids and still love them as much now. Basically the type of person on this thread. It's criminal how few views their videos get compared to garbage like Adam Koralik.
So you're saying it's expected that they sound like dorks?
Certain accents, talking patterns and over-rehearsed tone (or obvious reading from cards) are grating to my ears. Can't help it. Agree with you both they have nice production values and that their stuff is highly informative. Their speaking presentation abilities just leave something to desire. It IS a skill after all, one which some people are better at than others.
Phonedork's videos are rougher around the edges but I could watch two hours of him talking about RGB monitor stuff. I don't watch a lot of Youtuber stuff but I was a fan of Egoraptor's old game analysis videos (Sequelitis), and would watch them over and over despite the language and his sometimes rambling nature. Same for TB, HuskyStarcraft and a couple others. I downloaded the prior MLiG video to watch on my way to work. I deleted it after one viewing which is not normal for me.
Good content and I'm sure they're great guys too. But dudes suck at being good, interesting speakers. That may be hurting their viewership a bit... and as much as we love this stuff, talking about old monitors, upconverters and retro console mods probably doesn't help either. The big numbers seem to be in people talking about current popular games and well known classics.
I like the content these guys put out, but I can't stand the way they talk. Coury has some sort of Valley Girl accent that's really distracting. Tryumph's weird cadence is slow as molasses, as if his speech fluctuates and drops down to 0.7x normal speed (which has a strong hint of sounding like he's talking down to a slow audience). Really makes them a little unbearable and their videos difficult to enjoy.
For what it's worth I feel the same.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
So, I did this. Desoldered using bulb+wick (mostly bulb) yesterday, installed today. When I desoldered I managed to tear out a couple of vias, but it was obvious which ones (D5, D7) so I attached wires direct to the CPU.
NESRGB is pretty cool. I have it hooked up via s-video (for now?) since I want to share a cable between fami+sufami, but even then it looks soooooooooooooo much better.
D.Lo
Member
Me too. I was the one who complained about 'Cumpaaaarsit video'.
PeterBazooka
Member
Very informative
speedlolita
Member
Big numbers = ignorance.
This is the truth. These guys are specific and speak truths. As pointed out above, people like Adam Koralik who speak really broadly are going to be more appealing to someone who knows NOTHING.
I'm British, for what it's worth.
Phonedork seems like a cool guy too. He's an OCD nerd with a strong interest in health. Quite the combination!
Looks like we're officially getting "uprendered" PS2 games on PS4 tomorrow.
I know emulation isn't the focus of this thread, but seeing as how these are official releases, I'm hoping we could collectively cobble together impressions for some of us that have a bit more... shall we say... discriminating tastes as far as image quality, input lag, framerate, aspect ratio, color balance, and controls are for our retro fix.
I'm probably going to grab a game just to check out the iq. But I'm not intimately familiar with many of the games on the list, so my impressions won't be quite as keen as some of you.
I know emulation isn't the focus of this thread, but seeing as how these are official releases, I'm hoping we could collectively cobble together impressions for some of us that have a bit more... shall we say... discriminating tastes as far as image quality, input lag, framerate, aspect ratio, color balance, and controls are for our retro fix.
I'm probably going to grab a game just to check out the iq. But I'm not intimately familiar with many of the games on the list, so my impressions won't be quite as keen as some of you.
speedlolita
Member
I recently sold my PS4 because I wasn't using it.
I've always had a "gaming PC" because I like to keep my horizons open. With the way the market has shifted, there's little to no reason for me to have a specific console currently. Well, that and the fact that I'm still plugging away with the PS3 and 360.
I have an NTSC debug PlayStation 2 with a selection of NTSC-J and NTSC-U titles and I sure as hell wouldn't be able to play those on a PlayStation 4. As far as buying games I already own again goes too... Haha, nah, I'm good.
I play retro on a CRT, I'll play my PS2 on a CRT and I can even happily tolerate the image quality of my PlayStation 2 via component on my Samsung 32" 1080p display at 480i.
So for me, I don't particularly care at all - no matter how good it turns out.
So far I want to try out the GTA games as they were an interlaced mess on PS2. Here's a list so far:
Dark Cloud $14.99
Grand Theft Auto III $14.99
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City $14.99
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas $14.99
Rogue Galaxy $14.99
The Mark of Kri $14.99
Twisted Metal: Black $9.99
War of the Monsters $9.99
entremet
Member
I don't think it's a terrible complaint, but it also shows why on-air talent get paid so well.
It's not easy and not everyone could do it.
But this is YT, I'm not expecting Dick Clark.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I kinda feel the same way. Real hardware is best.
...But playing Katamari Damacy on my PS3 was pretty great. Problem is that game is so cheap and I might as well have done it on PS2, as I did with Minna Daisuki.
As much as I prefer playing on the original hardware, if the alternative gives me a better picture or better framerate on a console I would prefer that as I want the best gaming experience possible.
That and whenever I can avoid interlacing as much as possible, because it sucks and it's annoying to record for me. That's why I hate recording PS2 games, because hundreds of them are forced to have shit that looks bad in motion.
That and whenever I can avoid interlacing as much as possible, because it sucks and it's annoying to record for me. That's why I hate recording PS2 games, because hundreds of them are forced to have shit that looks bad in motion.
Definitely, don't mean to come off as being so harsh. Im not familiar with that Adam fellow but if it's like a lot of the retro-rad crap on YouTube, I wouldn't even given it the one viewing like I do with the MLiG stuff.
blast processed
Member
MLIG puts out great content & definitely deserves a larger amount of subscribers. I don't really agree with some of the complaints about them, I mean, there video editing gaming nerds. I'm not expect the soothing sounds of Morgan Freeman when I tune in. If I did have one complaint about this video, it's that yellowed SNES.
I have no complains about MLiG, and I actually really like the strange way they pronounce some words like composite. Like somebody wrote, they looks and sounds like real nerds which i like - and their videos are great in every way, well researched, most of the possibilities, showcase the awesome presentation of selected retro games - and yeah, very informative.
About the PS2-games on PS4, isnt the prices kinda high? People always complain about Virtual Console-prices, but surely they are lower than $15?
About the PS2-games on PS4, isnt the prices kinda high? People always complain about Virtual Console-prices, but surely they are lower than $15?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Wii games are $20, but PS2 games on PS3 are all $10 which is probably a better yardstick.
Lack of cross buy is the worst part IMO.
10$ sounds more right to me for a digital version, yeah. Still think its a bit high when they most probably wont transfer to the PS5 if Sonys current politics is anything to go with.
I should probably wait until PSX, but I feel strangely compelled to get a XRGB-mini again. I always stopped midway before purchasing because I just get confused about what cables I need even after reading, so I'm asking for clarification what cables I need for the Framemeister if I only want to hook up a NTSC PS2 for PS1 and PS2 games (for now). Am I correct in getting this PlayStation SCART cable and this adapter cable for my PS2 and Framemeister? Thanks in advance.
I'm looking forward to your impressions Timu. I've only played GTA on PC so I've never seen it on PS2 hardware.
Geneijin, yes you're correct. Good to go.
Is anyone else in this thread severely hammered right now or just me? Cheers. Here's to you fine folks. Henshin a go go baby!
I've played San Andreas on PS2 and later on PC(while I did 3 and Vice City on Xbox). I'll probably just get Vice City 1st since it's my fav of that 3.
Huggers
Member
Not sure why this cracked me up. True though. Love this thread.
I'm sort of game for some PS2 classics. My PS4 isn't getting much use. I bought Fallout and sold it 2 days later. Had planned on getting Battlefront but lost all motivation to. Will happily dl some PS2 games though. Hope they role out more quickly.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
You might get better mileage out of a component cable (plus a D-terminal adapter). The quality would be roughly the same, but it'd be more convenient for swapping between setups if you live in North America. (As in, it'd be useful for both the Framemeister and for TVs with component input jacks.)
The major advantage that an RGB cable has is that it would also work on a PS1, whereas a component cable would not. But that's mostly redundant when factoring in the PS2's backward compatibility.
Just thought I'd give a quick impression of the Panasonic BT-H1450Y, that I just got, in case anyone else is having a hard time finding a reasonably priced CRT monitor.
To cut it short the BT-H1450Y doesn't have quite as clear a picture as the GAFers favourites Sony PVMs and BVMs, but deals with 240p wonderfully, has the ever necessary RGB sockets and can take a PAL, SECAM, NTSC 3.58 or NTSC 4.43 signal, so I'd recommend this to anyone that is still suffering through 240p on an LCD screen (the horror....).
I was planning to write more and take some pictures, but I ended up playing Point Blank all day instead (as you'd expect light guns work great).
To cut it short the BT-H1450Y doesn't have quite as clear a picture as the GAFers favourites Sony PVMs and BVMs, but deals with 240p wonderfully, has the ever necessary RGB sockets and can take a PAL, SECAM, NTSC 3.58 or NTSC 4.43 signal, so I'd recommend this to anyone that is still suffering through 240p on an LCD screen (the horror....).
I was planning to write more and take some pictures, but I ended up playing Point Blank all day instead (as you'd expect light guns work great).
Component cable should be first party if possible. Not all ps2 component cables were created equally.
This, they lag with HDMI, though I read using component cables gets rid of the lag.
1st party and Monster cables.
I had a cheap PS2 component cable once...got red dots everywhere and never used it again.
Then I replaced it with the official ps3 component cables for 15 bucks used...what a difference.
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