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[Friend of Sonic]

I bought a PCE Core RGB modded that was promised to not have jailbars, but I got it and it looks as bad as the Turbo Grafx I had modded. Has anyone found a reliable fix for the jailbar thing? The guy insists he didn't see any, and he was using it through a XRGB mini, so who knows, maybe the effect was obscured. I sure as hell see it on my PVM though, and it's ugly as shit.

 

[brainpann]

I have the same one. Is removing the booster an easy thing to do? I've had a Mini for a while but I had never really used the scanline feature before so I'm just noticing this now.

Yeah-its pretty easy but i cant remember exactly what to do off the top of my head. If i remember correctly, you basically juat desolder the connections on the chip and solder then to the corresponding scart lead. PM me with any questions.

 

[Oare]

My question is, if I wanted to pick up an XRGB product, which one would I get? XRGB-3 or Framemeister?

If you're planning on using scanlines, framemeister is the safe bet.

XRGB-3 is a pefectly functional device as long as you use it solely in upscaler mode ("B0" mode). But unfortunatly, in order to use scanlines, you have to use the line-doubler mode ("B1" mode), which has widely-reported compatibility problems and provides a sync that's shaky even at its best.
A little over a month ago, I picked one up with great expectations. I ended up having to struggle with almost all of my systems, constantly fiddling with settings - and I could never get my RGB modded Pc engine to sync.
But the worst was the shakiness. In action games, it wasn't too bad. But text dialogues in RPGs would shake constantly. It was slight, but since I play on a PC monitor, I'm sitting rather close to the screen, so I couldn't ignore it. Annoying as hell.

I gave up and sold it. Luckily I had bought it trough yahoo auctions and managed to sell it for exactly what I paid (around the equivalent of usd150, shipping included).
I bought a framemeister instead. This time around, my expectations were low - but everything worked perfectly right out of the box.

Some people never encounter any of the compatibility problems of the XRGB-3. Good for them. But you have to know they exist.
Same goes for the shakiness.

Has anyone found a reliable fix for the jailbar thing?

There's this:
http://pcengine.freeforums.org/jailbar-fix-t233.html

I haven't tried it myself though, so I can't say if it works or not.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

In my experience, XRGB3 B1 only causes a shake effect on interlaced sources. Every other frame (field?) is offset by 1 line. I've never seen it on a 240p source.

 

[Madao]

I have a couple rgb modded snes mini's for sale if you want one. I sent you a PM.

do you still have RGB modded SNES mini's around? recently i looked at my 2 old SNES consoles and none of them had 1chip so i ditched them. atm i don't have a SNES and was looking for a good one because there's a couple of games i plan to keep and would like to have a way to play them on the best quality possible.
another question. is it possible to add S-Video support to them or were they modded to have that too? i had heard the mini doesn't support S-Video and that pretty much makes it necessary to get a modded model to get anything above composite and i like having both options open.

 

[antibolo]

I bought a PCE Core RGB modded that was promised to not have jailbars, but I got it and it looks as bad as the Turbo Grafx I had modded. Has anyone found a reliable fix for the jailbar thing? The guy insists he didn't see any, and he was using it through a XRGB mini, so who knows, maybe the effect was obscured. I sure as hell see it on my PVM though, and it's ugly as shit.

I can see vertical lines on my PVM but only on blue colors. I always assumed it was a "normal" deficiency of the PC Engine PPU so I didn't look into finding a fix.

EDIT: Though now that I think about it, that's probably not what you meant by "jailbars". I don't see any Genesis-style jailbars on mine, no.

 

[baphomet]

do you still have RGB modded SNES mini's around? recently i looked at my 2 old SNES consoles and none of them had 1chip so i ditched them. atm i don't have a SNES and was looking for a good one because there's a couple of games i plan to keep and would like to have a way to play them on the best quality possible.
another question. is it possible to add S-Video support to them or were they modded to have that too? i had heard the mini doesn't support S-Video and that pretty much makes it necessary to get a modded model to get anything above composite and i like having both options open.

Svideo can also be added to a mini. Its slightly more work than rgb, but it can be added back onto the multi out.

 

[Oare]

In my experience, XRGB3 B1 only causes a shake effect on interlaced sources. Every other frame (field?) is offset by 1 line. I've never seen it on a 240p source.

In my case, things were shaking on 240p sources as well.
However, not everybody experiences it, it seems. I guess it all boils down to compatibility, and maybe sensitivity?
Sitting at a distance helped reduce the impression a great deal, so maybe people playing on a TV rather than a PC monitor are less likely to feel affected?

My monitor is a Dell 2407wfp-hc. It does have a picky VGA input, even with some computers.
I tried two different cables, including one that's so heavily shielded I could probably wear it as body armor.
But I had the same problems.


My point is I've seen people reporting exactly the same symptoms as the ones I was experiencing. Even the site retrogaming.hazard-city.de mentions it in its review of the Famemeister:
"A big problem of the XRGB-3 was it's analogue processing. It was very sensitive to noise and produced a shaky sync on it's output."
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html
That's something I wish I had seen more heavily emphasized beforehand, so I feel I should share.

Since switching to the framemeister, the only inconvenience I can think of was having to open my super famicom rgb cable in order to add a couple of sound-out plugs!

 

[Voliko]

Yeah-its pretty easy but i cant remember exactly what to do off the top of my head. If i remember correctly, you basically juat desolder the connections on the chip and solder then to the corresponding scart lead. PM me with any questions.

I pulled out some composite cables to see if the problem was actually limited to RGB, but I saw the same effect with the scanlines through composite. I tried another TV today and I had no problems on that one. Looks like it's a problem with my TV.

 

[brainpann]

I pulled out some composite cables to see if the problem was actually limited to RGB, but I saw the same effect with the scanlines through composite. I tried another TV today and I had no problems on that one. Looks like it's a problem with my TV.

What resolution is your TV and what is the output resolution of the mini? You could also try messing with the sync on the mini.

 

[entremet]

Curious, which XRGB should I buy? I wanna connect older system to my plasma.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Curious, which XRGB should I buy? I wanna connect older system to my plasma.

Depends on what importance you place on a number of factors:

- scanlines
- input lag
- dual-resolution sources that switch on the fly (240p/480i)
- output connections (HDMI, VGA, etc.)
- user-friendliness
- etc.

 

[Madao]

Depends on what importance you place on a number of factors:

- scanlines
- input lag
- dual-resolution sources that switch on the fly (240p/480i)
- output connections (HDMI, VGA, etc.)
- user-friendliness
- etc.

out of curiosity. what would be the best if input lag was my #1 priority?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

out of curiosity. what would be the best if input lag was my #1 priority?

- The Framemeister always has about 1.5 frames (24ms) of input lag. The XRGB-3's upscaling mode has about the same amount of lag.
- The XRGB2, XRGB2+, and the XRGB-3's linedoubler mode each have input lag of only 1-to-2ms.

If 1.5 frames isn't too bad for you, then the Framemeister is a worthy choice. If you really need lag-free performance, each of the others can suffice, but be aware that you'd be limited to 480p in all cases. (The XRGB-3's lag-free linedoubler mode maxes out at 480p. Scaling to higher resolutions induces about the same amount of lag as the Framemeister would.)

 

[IrishNinja]

as a fan of plasmas, i also have to add to 645's helpful info that you should bear in mind how much input said set brings, it can vary greatly but it's often more than the upscaler alone.

 

[Superblatt]

While I can't provide any input on plasmas, I can reaffirm that Hal64's rgb modded snes mini is beyond unbelievable on a PVM. I went from a regular (not 1-chip) snes which was very, very blurry to the mini and can't believe how sharp it looks. My duo and snes are now pure rgb and there is no turning back. Next up is buying rgb cables for my saturn and genesis, and then buying a scart switch so I don't have to keep pulling cables and swapping 'em.

If you have any doubt as to the increase in quality on a snes mini, stop doubting and send a PM to Hal64. You will not be disappointed!!

 

[baphomet]

So my s-video chip for my 2600 finally showed up today. It looks a million times better than the regular rf, but it still could look much better. I'm going to look around for a fix for the smeared reds. Maybe just changing some caps, or it may just be like that unfortunately. Looks alright running through the xrgb for what it is i suppose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTMkAUvMKok&hd=1

 

[Superblatt]

So my s-video chip for my 2600 finally showed up today. It looks a million times better than the regular rf, but it still could look much better. I'm going to look around for a fix for the smeared reds. Maybe just changing some caps, or it may just be like that unfortunately. Looks alright running through the xrgb for what it is i suppose.

Rgb on a 2600. Only you, dude. Good luck on the smeared reds. Sounds tricky.

 

[IrishNinja]

haha, i'm pretty interested in seeing the video options on a 2600, keep the shots comin bapho!

 

[Friend of Sonic]

While I can't provide any input on plasmas, I can reaffirm that Hal64's rgb modded snes mini is beyond unbelievable on a PVM. I went from a regular (not 1-chip) snes which was very, very blurry to the mini and can't believe how sharp it looks. My duo and snes are now pure rgb and there is no turning back. Next up is buying rgb cables for my saturn and genesis, and then buying a scart switch so I don't have to keep pulling cables and swapping 'em.

If you have any doubt as to the increase in quality on a snes mini, stop doubting and send a PM to Hal64. You will not be disappointed!!

Got my N64 to the mail to Hal64. Thanks for the recommendation! I can't wait until I see how hot the N64 looks in RGB.

So my s-video chip for my 2600 finally showed up today. It looks a million times better than the regular rf, but it still could look much better. I'm going to look around for a fix for the smeared reds. Maybe just changing some caps, or it may just be like that unfortunately. Looks alright running through the xrgb for what it is i suppose.

A few years ago I had my Atari 2600 jr modded for S-video, but I haven't plugged it into my PVM yet. I'll have to take a look at it-- what model 2600 are you using?

 

[baphomet]

Its a 4 switch Vader.

Also, when plugging it in my PVMs the problem becomes much less noticable.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Its a 4 switch Vader.

Also, when plugging it in my PVMs the problem becomes much less noticable.

Ah, well, good news for me lol. Good luck!

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I'm testing out a bunch of my old hardware as I'm sorting through it and am struck at just how much clearer the front-loading NES's RF output is than the top-loader. The top-loader has a bunch of extra noise in its signal that just isn't visible on the original model. Didn't expect there to be that much of a difference.

 

[Superblatt]

I'm testing out a bunch of my old hardware as I'm sorting through it and am struck at just how much clearer the front-loading NES's RF output is than the top-loader. The top-loader has a bunch of extra noise in its signal that just isn't visible on the original model. Didn't expect there to be that much of a difference.

My top loader is composite modded and I still notice the toaster is clearer. That's why I'm working with bapho to go full rgb on the top loader.

Once you go red green blue, absolutely nothing else will do.

 

[Peagles]

Just got my 1CHIP SNES, testing over RGB on my PVM. I wish I could take some good photos but alas, my camera is crap. I can't do a side by side but looking between the both of them testing Mother 2, the gain in picture quality is about the same as going from S-Video to RGB SCART. The whites are whiter, the colours are much better, and everything is razor sharp.

 

[IrishNinja]

^congrats Peagles!

anyone ever have issues with digital optical cables? i'm getting sound from front left & center, not front right speaker. likewise with one of the rears...everything directly over HDMI doesn't experience this, so i'm inclined to blame the cable itself, just curious.

 

[mikeBlack]

Does anyone have any tips to get the genesis/megadrive playing nicely with the framemeister. I have a japanese model 1 megadrive. I've set autosynch to off on the framemiester and gone through all the synch settings (1-30). The best I can get is a stable image for a few seconds then it will jump for a split second, then back to stable. Its steady with s-video, but getting pure rgb is a pain. Upgraded the firmware to 1.10 also.

 

[Rich!]

Does anyone have any tips to get the genesis/megadrive playing nicely with the framemeister. I have a japanese model 1 megadrive. I've set autosynch to off on the framemiester and gone through all the synch settings (1-30). The best I can get is a stable image for a few seconds then it will jump for a split second, then back to stable. Its steady with s-video, but getting pure rgb is a pain. Upgraded the firmware to 1.10 also.

Mine works flawlessly with a c sync scart cable on auto settings.

Gotta be your cable

 

[mikeBlack]

Cheers for that! From memory my cable is just this cheap one from retro gaming cables.

New cable it is!

 

[Yes Boss!]

I gotta say that I've been very blown away by the RGB output of the Genesis/Megadrive. It makes playing those games so, so much fun. Easily the best system to improve with RGB. And I'm rocking a Megadrive 2...supposed to have the poorer sound but I'm quite pleased with it.

 

[baphomet]

Like rich said, you want a csync wired cable. I was having the same issue with a stable image for a few seconds and then it loosing sync. New cable fixed it right away.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I gotta say that I've been very blown away by the RGB output of the Genesis/Megadrive. It makes playing those games so, so much fun. Easily the best system to improve with RGB. And I'm rocking a Megadrive 2...supposed to have the poorer sound but I'm quite pleased with it.

Yeah, since there's no S-video option out of the box, it really is a no-brainer to go RGB with Genesis. Such an improvement.

 

[HaL64]

Cheers for that! From memory my cable is just this cheap one from retro gaming cables.

New cable it is!

You should just get one of these.
It has a built in sync stripper. Which makes every cable you connect to it a csync cable, and also boosts the sync.

 

[Rich!]

You should just get one of these.
It has a built in sync stripper. Which makes every cable you connect to it a csync cable, and also boosts the sync.

that's what I have.

never had any issues with it

 

[antibolo]

You should just get one of these.
It has a built in sync stripper. Which makes every cable you connect to it a csync cable, and also boosts the sync.

Won't that cause problems in cases where the input device does not feed power to the SCART +5V pin? Like a US Saturn?

 

[HaL64]

Won't that cause problems in cases where the input device does not feed power to the SCART +5V pin? Like a US Saturn?

Wasn't aware the US Saturn had that problem. Yes the sync stripper requires +5V to be hooked up. Or to be externally powered.
I wired up an externally power sync stripper in my Brandbridge scart switch. Just in case something that that happened.

 

[mikeBlack]

You should just get one of these.
It has a built in sync stripper. Which makes every cable you connect to it a csync cable, and also boosts the sync.

Aaaaargh! Too late... ordered this last night before seeing your post. I'll most likely get one anyway, I'm sure the megadrive won't be the only console i'll have issues with. I've got an rgb modded duo-r on its way from japan now, and plan on getting a ntsc-j saturn soon.

Appreciate the help everyone!

 

[HaL64]

Aaaaargh! Too late... ordered this last night before seeing your post. I'll most likely get one anyway, I'm sure the megadrive won't be the only console i'll have issues with. I've got an rgb modded duo-r on its way from japan now, and plan on getting a ntsc-j saturn soon.

Appreciate the help everyone!

You can cancel your ebay stuff with her. Just got to msg her asap. She is not super fast about getting stuff out, honestly. Mainly due to being flooded with orders.

Also next time you can just send me your cable and I'll add a sync stripper for you. Or I can add it to your breakout box if you have one. I've done this for a few people here for cost.
Ends up being cheaper than buying a whole new one.

 

[mikeBlack]

You can cancel your ebay stuff with her. Just got to msg her asap. She is not super fast about getting stuff out, honestly. Mainly due to being flooded with orders.

Also next time you can just send me your cable and I'll add a sync stripper for you. Or I can add it to your breakout box if you have one. I've done this for a few people here for cost.
Ends up being cheaper than buying a whole new one.

Pm sent!

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Some random musings on Genesis 1 jailbars.

So, you might have heard that the video encoder for the model 1 Genesis has a flaw in that the pin used for the blue video signal tends to pick up interference from a neighboring pin, resulting in what we call jailbars. Here's a picture from an owner of a Japanese Megadrive 1 that shows the issue pretty clearly:

I find it interesting, though, that they are far less pronounced on my own Genesis 1:

If you zoom in, you can still see them, but they're very faint when compared to the first picture.

I wonder what the reason for the discrepancy is, and whether it can be attributed to a hardware revision or a difference in cabling. For reference, my Genesis is one with the "High Definition Graphics" label, the EXT port, and the TMSS boot screen, and I use Japanese format RGB cables.

 

[Rich!]

My Mk1 megadrive looks like the second pic. No visible jailbars to speak of. It's an asian model with a 60hz mod.

 

[bodeiseifer]

Aaaaargh! Too late... ordered this last night before seeing your post. I'll most likely get one anyway, I'm sure the megadrive won't be the only console i'll have issues with. I've got an rgb modded duo-r on its way from japan now, and plan on getting a ntsc-j saturn soon.

Appreciate the help everyone!

Just as a heads up, the nice guy at retrogamingcables said to me he could modify the sync stripper adaptor with a power input so it piggybacks the xrgb psu and powers the syns stripper that way for a fiver, sounds like he has the parts and equipment at had to do so, so I would email him if anyone wants to buy a sync stripper as the scart powered ones are rubbish in my opinion, you wont get a picture at all if pin 8 isnt powered by the device itself, connecting it through a powered scart box will NOT power it, it also means that you can rollback the firmware to an earlier version that had snyc issues with allot of consoles (shouldn't be a problem if you have a sync stripper), BUT did not introduce that picture noise that came with a later firmware update

 

[bodeiseifer]

Does anyone successfully use a JAP or US Saturn with the xrgb mini?

I've researched the matter and there is a mod, but I don't want to do it, pretty sure some people have got theres working without the mod, but adaptor man doesn't seem to sell the cables anymore, it sounds like you need a cable that will only work with an NTSC saturn, retrogamingcables one work with both, retrogaming lady on ebay sells ntsc only saturn cable but shes in the US, don't really want to order from her unless someone can confirm that cable works?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I use a USA Saturn with an XRGB-3 and Japanese style RGB cables from Retro Console Accessories, for what it's worth. Works in both upscaler mode and linedoubler mode without any apparent issues.

On other topics, anyone know a good place to pick up an inexpensive male-to-male D-terminal cable?

 

[antibolo]

My theory as to why people have problems with NTSC Saturns is because their setup relies on the +5V line from SCART, which is missing on a NTSC Saturn. Most likely a sync stripper.

I use a NTSC Saturn on my PVM with a cable made for a PAL Saturn, and it works fine.

 

[brainpann]

Does anyone successfully use a JAP or US Saturn with the xrgb mini?

I've researched the matter and there is a mod, but I don't want to do it, pretty sure some people have got theres working without the mod, but adaptor man doesn't seem to sell the cables anymore, it sounds like you need a cable that will only work with an NTSC saturn, retrogamingcables one work with both, retrogaming lady on ebay sells ntsc only saturn cable but shes in the US, don't really want to order from her unless someone can confirm that cable works?

I use a US Saturn with a plain euro Saturn scart cable I got off ebay. Ive never had an issue playing the Saturn through the mini.

 

[Superblatt]

I've noticed that my s-video modded genesis (model 1) looks awful on my PVM. The reds are almost gone entirely and the other colors are muted as well. I've had this unit for years and never noticed any issues on my giant lcd tv. My saturn looks fine over s-video on the PVM, but the genesis looks straight up terrible. I've made sure it's not the cord and re-hooked it up to the LCD and boom it looks just fine. What gives?

 

[Lettuce]

Just got my 1CHIP SNES, testing over RGB on my PVM. I wish I could take some good photos but alas, my camera is crap. I can't do a side by side but looking between the both of them testing Mother 2, the gain in picture quality is about the same as going from S-Video to RGB SCART. The whites are whiter, the colours are much better, and everything is razor sharp.

Are 1Chip's also available on Super Famicom's or just US NTSC SNES?

 

[Peagles]

Are 1Chip's also available on Super Famicom's or just US NTSC SNES?

All regions, even PAL. Mine is actually a Super Famicom.

 

[Lettuce]

All regions, even PAL. Mine is actually a Super Famicom.

Super Famicom Jr. seem to got for alot more than the SNES Mini's for some reason