There was some interest in making 240p happen for gameboy player, but no progress yet. This was over on the gamecube forever forums.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
There was some interest in making 240p happen for gameboy player, but no progress yet. This was over on the gamecube forever forums.
I don't have the cable (nor the TV for that matter) but I can tell you I have the option in my screen settings. With the RGB cable plugged in I can choose between 50Hz (576i) and 60Hz (480i), with EDTV/HDTV (480p) greyed out. So it's able to know whichever output you're using and disable the ones you don't want. Now whether you have all three options or only 480p when using component, ad if it switches automatically, I can't say.
My phone can't cope with the scanlines and refresh rate. Funny how you clearly see the scanlines of one alternating image from the interlaced signal, but when looking at it with your bare eyes there are no scanlines, the colours are full and shapes are clearly defined. Well apart from when red stuff is one or two pixel away from something else, then it bleeds a bit. It may be a capacitor problem, but I don't really want to open my TV yet.
So I got my NES RGB, which is pretty damn awesome...
One thing though, anyone know what's up with these faint diagonal lines I'm getting? I'm not currently running this through an XRGB Mini, but straight into an older Panasonic Plasma, which is what I have all my retro stuff hooked up too. With MD and SNES hooked up through Scart (RGB) I'm not getting these lines, only with the NES. I remember getting similar lines with S-Video before (NTSC SNES and a clone system).
Note that I added the black line in Photoshop, just to highlight the direction of the lines in case they're hard to see on your screen.
^
Anyone?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I've heard that this is a somewhat common issue. It might actually be present in all NESRGB installations but isn't widely reported because it isn't clearly visible on every setup. I'm not sure if anyone figured out how to completely eradicate it.
I could test for differences between the two cables I have later. I've actually been meaning to get around to that already.
With the Genesis and now the NES it won't be long before people think RGB means jailbars.
I have no jailbars on my PAL Megadrive.
sixteen-bit
Member
I don't have any jailbars on my NA Genesis or JP Mega Drive in RGB either. Is that typically a cable issue?
theSlacker
Member
Can be cables. Can be system itself too. For instance my earlier non TMSS genesis has developed them, but my slightly later model 1 with TMSS on the same cables doesn't have them.
lostinblue
Banned
Pretty automatic, you never tell it you're taking image out via component and colors never appear wrong. I assume they use different pins, but the console knows when component cables are plugged in too.
The Wii does 240p, 288p, 480i, 576i and 480p all via component cables/YPbPr.
Only thing that menu is doing is setting predefined resolutions for output, and keeping the 480p one grayed out if using anything but component.
Only Mega Drive 1 has jailbars, it's absent from all Mega Drive 2.
It's down to interference on the board and cables used.
Some consoles will be worse than others, some cable decisions help (composite sync instead of composite video on the sync cable helps) and some TV's will also be worse than others at interpreting it... but sans modding every Mega Drive 1 should have jailbars to some extent if the image is captured 1:1... It's down to a design error.
garbagejuicer
Neo Member
Quick question for you guys:
I've been running all my old systems through my Panasonic Plasma for years, but just got my Retron 5 in the mail the other day. This prompted me to look on craigslist for a nice CRT and shift the original systems to it.
So, I got a TV- 32 inch Sony Trinitron with Svideo and component inputs. Very nice TV for 10 bucks, but after getting it upstairs (160 lbs!) I've noticed the picture is warped in the middle. It very noticeable on side scrollers, and the best way I can describe it is if you have a rectangular object on the screen it expands and then contracts as it moves past the warped part on the screen.
So here is the actual question- Should I throw the TV out and look for another one, or is this something I can fix myself? BTW Genesis looks amazing on the CRT using a Scart to YUV converter, much better than it looked on my plasma.
I've been running all my old systems through my Panasonic Plasma for years, but just got my Retron 5 in the mail the other day. This prompted me to look on craigslist for a nice CRT and shift the original systems to it.
So, I got a TV- 32 inch Sony Trinitron with Svideo and component inputs. Very nice TV for 10 bucks, but after getting it upstairs (160 lbs!) I've noticed the picture is warped in the middle. It very noticeable on side scrollers, and the best way I can describe it is if you have a rectangular object on the screen it expands and then contracts as it moves past the warped part on the screen.
So here is the actual question- Should I throw the TV out and look for another one, or is this something I can fix myself? BTW Genesis looks amazing on the CRT using a Scart to YUV converter, much better than it looked on my plasma.
lostinblue
Banned
You have nothing to lose by trying to fix it, if it accept s components on a consumer Sony that means it's digital chassis and that means you don't even have to open it (which would be unrecommended unless you knew what you were doing, these things can pull hefty power discharges) and only have to get into service menu and play with it.
But warping in the middle might be too much to fix, I don't want to give you false hopes. Think of it as valuable experience with CRT geometry.
You'll need to download the service manual for that TV.
But warping in the middle might be too much to fix, I don't want to give you false hopes. Think of it as valuable experience with CRT geometry.
You'll need to download the service manual for that TV.
sixteen-bit
Member
No way, I was referring to my MD1. Is there a specific revision it affects?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
One of the chips on the Genesis 1 carries the composite video signal right next to the blue signal, which I believe is what causes jailbars in solid blue colors when using RGB:
You can solve this by killing the composite video signal, but that obviously comes with its own set of drawbacks and would require you to use composite sync for your RGB cables.
I'm not sure if this affects every version of the Genesis 1. I can only see it on mine if I zoom in and squint; it doesn't look as pronounced as some example screenshots I've seen from other users.
You can solve this by killing the composite video signal, but that obviously comes with its own set of drawbacks and would require you to use composite sync for your RGB cables.
I'm not sure if this affects every version of the Genesis 1. I can only see it on mine if I zoom in and squint; it doesn't look as pronounced as some example screenshots I've seen from other users.
160lbs. I helped my friend take it to his house, but it was too big for him and he already had a 27 inch Destination, so he said I could have it. Loaded it into my truck. My bro helped me take it up stairs to our apartment and after getting the stand I lifted the thing up on it. And I'm moving in 2 months - but it is all worth it.
I lift, but this thing is just awkward.
garbagejuicer
Neo Member
I messed around in the service menu and it's a little better but I think I got a dud. I never should have gotten rid of my 480p jvc!
GayForMaster
Banned
I've managed to make my GBP look pretty damn sharp/clean on my Hitachi 50" using the framemeister finally.
The Framemeister's resolution is set to 480p at Smart X1 mode without scanlines, while my TV's aspect mode is on Zoom (I dunno why Zoom X2 isn't available), but with this method I was able to zoom in on the small aspect ratio of what the framemeister set and compromise only a little of what Smart X1 produces. It fills up my screen nearly and looks great! Cube is running at 480p by the way (am fortunate enough to have component for cube).
To put it bluntly, I set the framemeister's resolution as small as possible and zoomed in with my TV settings. Too bad there's stuttering though
I want to try that with my 64 now, maybe it'll make it look bearable.
The Framemeister's resolution is set to 480p at Smart X1 mode without scanlines, while my TV's aspect mode is on Zoom (I dunno why Zoom X2 isn't available), but with this method I was able to zoom in on the small aspect ratio of what the framemeister set and compromise only a little of what Smart X1 produces. It fills up my screen nearly and looks great! Cube is running at 480p by the way (am fortunate enough to have component for cube).
To put it bluntly, I set the framemeister's resolution as small as possible and zoomed in with my TV settings. Too bad there's stuttering though
I want to try that with my 64 now, maybe it'll make it look bearable.
sixteen-bit
Member
those names :lol
Had a bit of a splurge and hit the button on two more Joytech AV boxes. The one I've been using has been amazing for RGB SCART (and can also do composite, svideo, component with some rejigging, and optical audio) so I thought I may as well future proof. Got the first one for a pittance but paid a bit more for these two (although they do come with remotes whereas the first one didn't).
With four inputs each I won't need any more SCART switches once they arrive, ever, hopefully, lol.
With four inputs each I won't need any more SCART switches once they arrive, ever, hopefully, lol.
Would be cool if you could test that and report back, yeah!
fwiw I do not encounter these bars on my PAL SNES or my Mega Drive 2 over RGB. This is the first RGB console where I've had this. Like I said, only ever seen them before over S-Video.
Lettuce made the RGB cable for me and according to him - from what I understand - his cable uses composite video, not composite sync. So a cable with composite sync might be better/not have the bars? Is there an issue with compatibility with some TVs and c sync? I have two Panasonic plasmas that I have my stuff hooked up to.
lostinblue
Banned
A cable with composite sync will most surely be better, at least theoretically because sync will be purer.
The real reason for the issue is interference though, it's in that image:
Where Red, Green and Blue are is obvious. Now, jailbars are on the blues which are right next to the yellow which is composite. it's down to interference.
Full fix is using composite sync cables and because you don't need composite video working killing that yellow, which is simple, just lifting a pin from that chip iirc.
Just even without doing that image gets a little better, supposedly.
baphomet
Member
Composite sync rarely makes a difference in image quality. Its mostly used when displays have an issue with composite video as sync. The issue with the NES would probably benefit from a composite sync cable because his display doesn't seem to like composite video. The only issue I've ever had in well over 100 rgb mods was 1 person getting crosshatchhing on his display because the n64 he had didn't output composite sync. Other than that there's no actual quality difference between composite sync and composite video as sync from my experience.
You can actually test this easily, just open up the NES and remove the wire from the Pin that is labeled 'V sync' and plug the same wire on the pin labelled 'CS#' on the NESRGB board.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
You probably have it backwards and are actually using a filter on the XRGB that diminishes them.
Well, I don't exactly know how the XRGB's modes work; it's possible that the Normal mode actually has more filtration than the Picture mode.
EDIT: I have edited this post to be 20% less snarky.
lostinblue
Banned
It makes a difference on Genesis/Mega Drive 1.
Anyway, I didn't realize jarosh was talking about NES. Won't make a difference on NES, probably. And that whole explanation was for the Mega Drive/Genesis 1.
I'll transcribe though...
Source: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=689791&sid=1b39bc75edf3e9ce1cec0bb82847ee68#p689791
Also ties in nicely with the "my MD1 on one mode on XRGB lacks them" - LPF stands for Low Pass Filter, and yeah, you're using it. All MD1's have jailbars via RGB, some more, some less, some cables reduce it and some equipments take it better than others... It's like the vertical bar on SNES, it's just there. Unless you nuke Composite Video and plug sync onto the Composite Sync pin instead. (the pinouts have one pin for composite sync/pure sync and other for composite video)
It's 100% likely one of them is using LPF.
theSlacker
Member
You can solve this by killing the composite video signal, but that obviously comes with its own set of drawbacks and would require you to use composite sync for your RGB cables.
Happen to have a write up on this to link me? Been looking around and just finding megathreads with years worth of posts when I'm looking to "fix" the jail bars on my model one that has them bad. Seen mention of easier ways then clipping a leg, like removing a cap, butt haven't seen any details or results.
lostinblue
Banned
I'll link you to it, no problemo.
Proposed solution by Link83:
Solution applied:
Proposed solution by Link83:
Source: http://www.assemblergames.com/forum...-1-CXA1645-mod&p=494084&viewfull=1#post494084
Solution applied:
Source: http://www.assemblergames.com/forum...-1-CXA1645-mod&p=538192&viewfull=1#post538192With pin 50 connected:
Without:
Hehe, I can't for the life of me see either of these anomalies on any of my SNES/SFC systems or my MD1, no matter how hard I try. Feel lucky.
IrishNinja
Member
^same! Definitely saw the vertical bar on a friend's SNES, quite happy to not see it on mine
theSlacker
Member
Thanks. Was one of the several threads I was going though, but good to see specific posts. Figured there would be a features mod with details and pictures of exact pins and what not somewhere if it was a confirmed fix, but I will take what I can get.
Edit: A hard part about these threads is them being so old that the pictures are gone. Several times now I've felt like I'm missing something important because a referenced picture is gone.
>:C
sixteen-bit
Member
it's so bright
IrishNinja
Member
Not many men can say they have an RGB modded CD-I, m'man
baphomet
Member
Odd because that's what the data sheet calls for a cxa 1145. But checking the svideo output does show it being darker. Suppose I'll screw with it some more.
baphomet
Member
Trust me, you definitely don't want one. I've bought some garbage in my days, and this easily takes the cake.
On the other hand I'm an idiot. I added resistance when I also changed my cables, forgetting that they already had it inside them. So it's looking perfect now. Well, perfect for a complete pile of shit.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
They're so clear they look like they were lifted directly from MS Paint!
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Why are they greater than 480p, though?
I call shenanigans.
I call shenanigans.
IrishNinja
Member
a good buddy of mine is saying he's got a boxed one inna closet & when he comes down to see his family this christmas (assuming he can find it/it's still there) it's mine!
admittedly, i'd like a drunken night of bad zelda games then trade it for a jaguar
baphomet
Member
XRGB Mini
Here's a video of it if anyone wants to check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U7rV_r7LmU
For free you can't really go wrong with anything.
Except a jaguar cd maybe.
What have we here? [edit] Oh, not new? Just saw it in my feed, hadn't seen the older ones.
https://twitter.com/MicomsoftX/status/494430625483345920
https://twitter.com/MicomsoftX/status/494430625483345920
sixteen-bit
Member
You get that Jeff Minder visualizer though.
Friend of Sonic
Member
CDi never looked so good!
What have we here? [edit] Oh, not new? Just saw it in my feed, hadn't seen the older ones.
https://twitter.com/MicomsoftX/status/494430625483345920
Looks like straight out of the 80s
sixteen-bit
Member
Laugh all you want, but I really dig dempa micomsoft's typefaces and graphic design. They definitely keep it classic though, it's the same shit you see on an XE-1 or whatever, lol.
- Status