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US Destroyer collides with merchant vessel in South China Sea (yes, again)
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
Jaguar Victory
Member
BREAKING: US Navy says USS John S. McCain has significant hull damage; crew berths, machinery and communications rooms flooded.
— The Associated Press‏ (@AP) Aug 21, 2017
— The Associated Press‏ (@AP) Aug 21, 2017
U.S. 7th Fleet: USS John S. McCain pulls into Changi Naval Base **UPDATE 3:55 p.m. JST, Aug. 21, 2017**
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
This is PAC FLEET...AGAIN? I'll reserve anger until we find our boys but this is something else...or possible some kind of outdated software or hack. I refuse to believe there are this many incompetent sailors out there.
Maybe they are using some kinda new OS for the OSs?
Maybe they are using some kinda new OS for the OSs?
They really don't have lookouts that actually look around and not just trust blindly radars and other such detection devices monitors?
Jaguar Victory
Member
You'd think there would be proximity alarms
The machines are only giving you data, they aren't going to autopilot you and the other ship on different courses. IIRC for the USS Fitzgerald collision, general seamanship was blamed for the crash. Ignoring warnings, ignoring signals from the other ship, continuing on an unsure course with regards to the other ship, etc.
The odds that they literally didn't know the ship was there was basically 0, it's just what they do with the information they have.
In the previous thread I think I posted an image of the path the ship took which looked like it had been on purpose.
Edit: found it
But I would assume if this was the case, even if the US wouldn't try to shout it without having clear undeniable proofs, that they wouldn't have blamed themselves.
Seems a shakeup is due at the navy.
Your disgusting conspiracy theory of "road rage" was disproved completely. Stop spreading FUD.
Caayn
Member
Again? How? How do two large ships, one if which is a high tech military ship so it should be equipped with good radar equipment, collide like this? Even if the instruments malfunctioned I don't believe that they couldn't see the other ship with their bare eyes.
US Navy making themselves look like fools here.
Sad to hear that people got injured and missing during this avoidable incident.
US Navy making themselves look like fools here.
Sad to hear that people got injured and missing during this avoidable incident.
Human beings, sometimes.
FreedomFighter
Member
Shouldn't be in the South China Sea anyways. Go home.
And how are you crashing with all that state of the art tech though?
And how are you crashing with all that state of the art tech though?
Incompetence and poor training.
Supposedly the crash occurred around the same time the watches were changing. Apparently there is meant to be 5 different watchstations. The fact that none of them saw this coming is rather embarrassing and pathetic.
Well, if this becomes common, maybe they should... Like with TCAS on planes...
Because it would be ridiculous if there weren't casualties, but it's even worse than that.
What do you mean? Does TCAS take over control from the pilots?
No... It even used to disengage auto-pilot when a TCAS resolution advice happened, though Airbus at least has now integrated TCAS RA in the auto-pilot.
TCAS won't take away control from pilot, but when the plane is on a collision course, you get a suggestion on how to resolve the crisis that is compatible with what happens on the other plane, it's basically foolproof if you follow it (I don't remember a collision resulting from obeying TCAS RA, well, not when BOTH plane do it) and you're not to ignore the advice unless you have a really, really good reason.
If those collisions are the result of people taking the bad decisions to alarms (I can't believe there wasn't an alarm somewhere), maybe we should provide them with a device that will suggest them proper actions...
Shit that sound just like that James Bond plot of "Tomorrow Never Dies"
I can see vessels getting damaged in shallow waters because of a GPS error (and still, that cry overreliance on the GPS to me, the should use inertial sensors to confirm GPS data).
I can also see them entereing a high traffic area by error because of this.
But for a collision to happen, there's still a need for a lot other failures... You don't avoid other vessels using the GPS...
Agent Gibbs
Member
how does this happen? is this a case of the one ship notices the other and says to move? then they both be stubborn pricks and sail into one another in a maritime game of Chicken? because that's the only way this makes sense unless they have the worst radar, sonar, binoculars and blind watchmen on both vessels
By my (admittedly incomplete) understanding of sea law, this sound less like the warship's fault than the last time?
You're supposed to give way to the starboard, and the previous shit was hit on the starboard so they'd crossed in front of the ship with right-of-way. This was hit to port, so that means they should have had right of way.
You're supposed to give way to the starboard, and the previous shit was hit on the starboard so they'd crossed in front of the ship with right-of-way. This was hit to port, so that means they should have had right of way.
cromofo
Member
Lack of professionalism.
They have auto-plotting aid on their radars that show the paths of any ship within their reach. All they needed to do was a small correction of course and/or speed and it would've been easily avoidable. If their paths were crossing, the alarms would beep bloody murder and would not stop until it's corrected.
It's like hitting the only car at the parking lot.
This is the US and China. All the tech in the world is not going to help if hubris, incompetence and arrogance is in play.
something tells me a destroyer has a much better power weight ratio than a tanker, though.
You can't just stop a tanker.
Not sure why I was quoted then, the situations seem the same. Both in the ship and on the plane you are warned of things and are meant to take action. If this is like the Fitzgerald incident, they might have just taken the wrong actions, if any at all. Same goes with the other ship.
cromofo
Member
Most of them are waiting for their turn and the speeds are minimal.
Not nearly as hard as it looks. It's coordinated with the port authority and pilotage.
I still don't get how China is involved in this beyond the word 'China' being in the name South China Sea. None of the four incidents this year involved a Chinese vessel, right? Was any of this in Chinese waters?
Hard to tell with just the result...
You can't stop a boat in short time, you can steer it a bit and increase/decrease speed. Imagine that you're about to hit a ship coming from starboard, you may decrease the speed to let it pass, but if the ship also unexpectingly slow down, you'll ram it, and you can't do much about this.
Indeed... What I meant is that, as far as I know, ships gives the information "Something bad may happen, be careful". Planes are "Something bad may happen, do this so it can be avoided", and pilots are trained to trust the advice and follow it.
Maybe they should consider implementing similar systems for boats in places with heavy traffic... It would seem that some lack the capability to act properly on those kinds of emergencies, a computer giving orders may be an improvement.
cromofo
Member
For that to happen, there had to be a major fuck up leading to it.
The vessels don't appear from thin air, they're marked individually or automatically as they should be when there is heavy traffic. There's information on speed, course etc on every single vessel in the area. It was only a matter of basic collision prevention and traffic rules that look to have been ignored.
The Commander in Chief providing exceptional leadership in this hour.....
https://mobile.twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/899444921161195520
Edit: already posted but worth reiterating what an utter cunt 45 is.
https://mobile.twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/899444921161195520
Edit: already posted but worth reiterating what an utter cunt 45 is.
Can't tell if this is a serious mathematical answer or a magnificent pun. Either way, well done.
Greigor The Fellhand
Member
yes, at the very least for several months at worst they will be decommissioned
maybe their tech is as outdated as Apple maps jokes
CrichtonKicks
Member
They do have lookouts but, in nighttime, if the tanker didn't have deck lighting on the lookout would only see the tanker's port/starboard running lights and masthead light(s). It's very difficult to determine range and bearing to a ship in those conditions. Radar and fire control will give you a much more accurate set of info on what the other ship is doing.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
*face palm*
Either 1) Literally because it's called the South China Seas, or 2) People still think Singapore = China.
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