Astray
Member
Steam is not a bigger opponent lol.
[The Verge] What is an Xbox?
- Thread starter Topher
- Start date
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Yet valve makes more profit than playstation . Tbh I just assumed valve was worth wayyyy more than I thought when I made my post.
Ok so now ms picking on the little guy.
But going against valve in the pc space seems more suicidal than taking on sony in the console space.
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Hari Seldon
Member
Valve is private, otherwise it could potentially be worth way more due to being about the most efficient business since slavery was around.
Astray
Member
Profit is only part of the equation.
Valve has no capability to drive through any kind of hardware first strategy without partnerships, they don't have any kind of independence (vast majority of their income is Windows-based users), they don't have enough standout IP either.
Just because you won fight A doesn't mean you have the minerals to reliably win fight B. Microsoft has a lot of tools and cards to play here that EGS or GOG never have and never will.
nowhat
Member
I mean, duh. Valve does have some (very few) software projects, some of which (*cough*CS*cough*) have some questionable monetization strategies. But their operating expenses, no matter who gets paid for the cloud infrastructure for Steam, are minuscule compared to the 30% cut they get from Steam sales. It's basically a money-printing machine.
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jm89
Member
Does it?
I don't think valve makes that available as they are a private company.
Hari Seldon
Member
Looking up the stats on Valve, they make an estimated $15 million per employee. The highest public company in the US is $2 million per employee. Out of 10 highest companies, 8 of them are energy and 2 are finance. I don't know if there is a more efficient company in the entire world than Valve.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Playstations revenue is like 30 billion but only 2.8 of that is profit.
Valve makes 40% profit off it's revenue which is about 3 billion.
bitbydeath
Member
Microsoft makes a lot more money than Sony so not sure if it would make for a good indicator…
thismeinteil
Member
Xbox is now just a sticker. It'll be slapped on any products of other manufacturers who choose to use the branding. Doubt it'll help their stuff sell considering the official HW was in the shitter.
nowhat
Member
Now, how much profit does the gaming division make?
You and I can't answer that, because those numbers haven't been released since the early One days. Revenue/MAU/"engagement", sure. But actual profits from the gaming division. We will never know.
Radical_3d
Member
Wait… we are all XBox?
CLW
Member
Sequel going to be even worse than the original.
Audiophile
Member
.
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Crayon
Member
Sony has been very competent in beating microsoft. Though you have to admit, Microsoft was very dumb.
Valve is way harder. Microsoft invented embrace extend extinguish, but the method to subvert and beat that is openness and interoperability. Chasing and catching the moving target of maliciously manipulated standards. Openness and interoperability happen to be two things that valve consistently goes for. And you have to admit, Microsoft will probably still be very dumb.
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djjinx2
Member
Sony hasn't been competent in the slightest. Way more luck / timing involved than anything.
Remember when MS gave Sony a free win with the TV TV TV, and the shitty DRM
Or even when MS had some good momentum and had RROD.
Or MS complete lack of 1P exclusives, dropping the ball with Halo. The list goes on.
MS defeated MS, Sony always had the advantage and just made LESS fuckups
RetroGamingUK
Member
People expected Microsoft to wipe the floor with Sony back in 2000 by simply outspending Sony the same way that Sony did to Sega back in 1994.
It never happened.
The difference with Steam is that it's been going for 20 years now and Microsoft already have a poor reputation in that domain.
Crayon
Member
Sony hasn't been competent in the slightest. Way more luck / timing involved than anything.
Remember when MS gave Sony a free win with the TV TV TV, and the shitty DRM
Or even when MS had some good momentum and had RROD.
Or MS complete lack of 1P exclusives, dropping the ball with Halo. The list goes on.
MS defeated MS, Sony always had the advantage and just made LESS fuckups
No, Sony brought expertise in not just hardware, but also entertainment publishing. They had their own screwups because it's been many years and that's business. Microsoft was especially fierce in the 360 days, and Sony managed to see through the disaster of the PS3, supporting it fully fr a long time and not bailing on the system. Largely due to their efforts in worldwide marketing and distribution. And they made some bangin games. 'Not competent in the slighest'? C'mon.
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Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
Just a reminder that Valve is down the street from Microsoft's headquarters in Seattle. It wouldn't take much for Microsoft to spy on them, or lean on local, state, or federal government to hurt Valve's buisness. I don't trust MS to play fair at all.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
what makes it more impressive is that Valve has so few employees.
Total staff as of 2021: 336 people
Administration: 35 people making an average of 4.5 million a year
Game Developers: 181 people making an average of 1 million a year
Steam Developers: 79 people making an average of 960k a year
Hardware Developers: 41 people making average of 430k a year
Source:
Activision has game studios with more employees than the entirety of Valve. Valve is a small business that outperforms mega conglomerates.
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Baemono
Member
Indeed. A company that gives away games for free every week couldn't even touch Steam, I don't know how Microsoft hopes to do better (after 20 years unsuccessfuly trying to appeal to PC players)
Astray
Member
I think they will fail because their leadership group is awful and fails at everything it does.
But with that said, I disagree about Valve, their room to maneuver in any storefront fight is actually quite limited. They never really faced an opponent with the level of resources and integral access to the Windows ecosystem and deep relationship with OEMs as Microsoft.
I also remind you that while Sony eventually won the war, they actually had much grander ambitions than being king of consoles, and these ambitions are now done. Valve likely has ambitions of its own with SteamOS, and we'll see if they win or not.
It's gonna be a very interesting fight tho.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Valve seem to like to dabble in hardware like Steambox and Steamdeck, but they tend to be niche devices.
They certainly don't have any way to produce and maintain tens of millions of pieces of hardware, and they seem content with that.
PlayStaytion
Member
I don't understand the logic behind a company who wants to kill itself intentionally. MS will obviously make all pc games playable using Xbox controller officially and vice versa, Xbox will receive official keyboard & mouse support to all games. If Gabe isn't willing to cooperate then he has personal issues with MS and his community obviously will share his view.
Astray
Member
They don't have anywhere near the capacity to be able to drive a HW strategy. For that to happen they'd have to hire a ton of employees and take on a magnitude of risk higher than anything they've ever did.
Whenever that happens, prepare for things like paid online to enter the chat.
Topher
Identifies as young
Sony hasn't been competent in the slightest. Way more luck / timing involved than anything.
Remember when MS gave Sony a free win with the TV TV TV, and the shitty DRM
Or even when MS had some good momentum and had RROD.
Or MS complete lack of 1P exclusives, dropping the ball with Halo. The list goes on.
MS defeated MS, Sony always had the advantage and just made LESS fuckups
Sony seized the opportunity that presented itself with Xbox One. That pic demonstrates how. They presented themselves as the polar opposite of Xbox in every way. From DRM to the $399 price. That was masterclass shit from the same company that was the one making all the mistakes in the gen prior. Giving Sony zero credit for PS4's dominance doesn't really make a lot of sense.
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I kinda dont get the pc version vs the Xbox version thing. I have both a gaming pc and an Xbox. Most games I can play on either. But why would I want a console version of a game over the pc version? And if it's called an xbox why would I really care. Should I refer to it as a handheld that runs on a Xbox looking ui but is actually a pc? Xbox handheld sounds easier.
laynelane
Member
That's such an important point that largely gets overlooked in many discussions. MS never seemed to make a concentrated effort to market Xbox on a world wide scale - instead opting to focus on only a few countries. They've had years to change this, but there was never much movement on making the brand a more global one. In contrast, Sony and Nintendo did and it shows in the results they've earned.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Xbox 360 had several Japanese exclusives not long after launch…
Ridge Racer 6
Ace Combat 6
Lost Odyssey
Blue Dragon
They didn't move the needle and after that they just gave up on Japan/Asia.
From a British perfective Xbox is far too American, all that NFL and gameshows bullshit during the Xbox One reveal was really off putting.
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laynelane
Member
Iirc, there was goal for owning Japanese studios and yet, almost immediately upon acquiring one, they shut it down (Tango). All their efforts beyond a few key countries have been like that - half-assed and superficial. Changing perspectives about Xbox is also what it means to market on a world wide scale - finding out what appeals to people and advertising to them. Xbox had the 'dude bro' label hanging over it and that never changed because they didn't seem to ever realize it needed to in order to compete on a global scale.
PauloRoberto
Member
If MS needs to keep asking, even they don't know correct answer...
mayham2199
Member
I don't think it will be interesting at all. I think they are just going to slowly fade into a third party as people continue to avoid using their products and moving to steam/ps/nintendo. I don't believe for one second PC gamers will start to use the Xbox store over Steam.
GoodData
Banned
I'm quite impressed by the quality of Xbox first party so far. It's true that they bought the talent, but who cares, they saved a couple of sinking ships in the process. What am I saying, everybody wants to buy talent. COD BO6, Avowed, Indiana Jones, Hellblade II, Elder Scrolls, all of which I am playing, are all good games. I'm happy to see my master chief gamerpic I made out of an achievement icon greet me every time I enter the ecosystem.
MS needs to get that old Xbox innovator mentality that they showed in the power on documentary YouTube vids. I sincerely hope they succeed. A game industry with only Sony, Nintendo, and steam would be horrible. It would be like having your leg amputated. If Xbox was driven out it would be an opportunity for another company to fill the void but in the short term things would be pretty shitty.
To me the big two innovations of the seventh generation were online id(achievements) and indies. Having an online identity gave games a meaning that wasn't there before, and the rise of indies saw the freeing and assistance of creative talent. The next innovation is something Xbox may find.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Last week they were integrating Steam into their console and now they are competing with Steam?
Nydius
Member
We already know they won't. Windows added Xbox integration back in Windows 8, started pushing their own Windows Store for games, and added both Xbox Play Anywhere and PC Game Pass as a way to try to take Windows users away from Steam. It hasn't had any appreciable effect. They still have to release their games on Steam because people actively avoid the Windows Store.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
jm89
Member
Tbh they were always gonna have to compete with steam, especially with SteamOS in the picture.
I think some of these journalists/content creators are coming to that realisation that it won't be all kumbaya.
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The UK was always the biggest Xbox market outside of North America. Xbox wasn't "too American" when the 360 outsold the PS3 by 3 million. Even the Xbox One sold respectably over here.
The UK looks to America far more than they do to any other country. You mention the NFL... the same NFL that is playing sold out games at Wembley stadium every single year. Not to mention that the best (or at least most modern) two football stadiums in England were both built with the NFL in mind.
PS4 having more powerful hardware at a lower price was the issue for Xbox, not some NFL clips shown during the reveal. Xbox was too American for Japan but not for the UK.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
people were really mad about this
Roman Empire
Member
This is what Xbox wants you to think the Xbox is:
Topher
Identifies as young
It is a legit question
laynelane
Member
It was the other way around - the PS3 outsold the 360 by 3 million from what I can tell after a quick google search. Even that, though, seems to be inconclusive to some degree. Aside from that, Xbox has seen a lot of their success in the US and the UK iirc. Plus, it was popular in Canada, Brazil, and maybe Europe? I'm going off memory here so I may be leaving some places out.
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Donald mac Ronald
Member
As sun tzu once said. Every battle is already won before it begins . Phil hasnt come prepared.
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KenaiPhoenix
Member
Yeah, thats why the series x is totally killing the market. They will just get a PC or a Playstation, even a Switch.