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[RaymondCarver]

I don't think I'll be testing it a lot. I think that Constant Bit Rate may be better quality and may record jazz and instrumental pieces better, but I'm just guessing.

For example: some jazz and really instrumental pieces do not sound that good in VBR. Is CBR the alternative? I know VBR goes from zero to nine, with zero being the best. Does CBR take up more space? Is VBR just to save space? If so, space is not the issue unless I get an a player with a fixed amount of space. Right now the goal is quality.

 

[Winged Creature]

Im pretty sure constant is better, cause its always at that bitrate while with variable it can go down pretty low ie 128kbps

 

[maharg]

Raw PCM is better quality.

 

[Winged Creature]

actually i prefer DSD

 

[RaymondCarver]

eww, so VBR is just to save space???


I guess. I'm going constant for now. I can always re-rip if needed.

Variable bit rate
The term variable bit rate (VBR) is a term in telecommunications Quality of Service. Compare with constant bit rate.
When referring to audio codecs, variable bit rate encoding varies the compression in each time segment (usually one second), based on the complexity of the sounds to be compressed. The goal being to get the best balance between sound quality and compression possible at any given moment.
-http://www.fact-index.com/v/va/variable_bit_rate.html

Constant bit rate
The term constant bit rate (CBR) is a term in telecommunications Quality of Service. Compare with variable bit rate.
CBR is also sometimes used to describe a method of encoding audio, where the output of the codec is constrained to produce a constant bit rate. Some other audio codecs use CBR, others are designed to be used in a VBR mode. Both CBR and VBR can be used for MP3 encoding.

 

[Hitokage]

No. Given the nature of lossy compression, some waveforms require more data to be preserved than others, and using CBR will result in spans of time where you are using more than you need to reach a level of quality while other spans don't have enough. VBR allows you to balance this out and give bitrate to parts of the song that need it.

Of course, when comparing with 320kbps CBR mp3 then yeah it's mostly a matter of space... and if space is not a consideration stop using lossy compression and use FLAC.

 

[maharg]

Erm, it's all about saving space. Nothing will sound better than raw pcm at 48khz, but that takes up about 1MB/s of audio. You use MP3 at all because it gives a better space to quality ratio.

VBR will also go HIGHER than you would normally choose, unless you would choose very high. Ideally, you shouldn't notice a difference, because the parts encoded at, say, 64kbps are most likely either silence or very simple tones. The parts that are complex will be the ones where there are many sounds, or they change quickly.

It really depends on the encoder whether it works well or not.

 

[RaymondCarver]

Pulse-code modulation (PCM) is a modulation technique. It is a digital representation of an analog signal where the magnitude of the signal is sampled regularly at uniform intervals of duration <math>T<math>. Every sample is quantized to a series of symbols in a digital code, which is usually a binary code. Nyquist's theorem states that frequencies higher than half the sample frequency (<math>f_s = 1/T<math>) cannot be reconstructed. PCM is used in digital telephone systems. It is also the standard form for digital audio in computers and various compact disc formats.

Dude, I know not of these two codes you speak. I know the concept of the formats which are farmilliar, but what _is_ important to my situation now is that: iPods don't play WMA, Apple Lossless and WMA are both "lossless" compression, and eventually in a year or two I'll take my huge music collection, most of which I buy and get promos, and sync it with some huge 80GB plus iPod.



A couple months ago I had no interest in iTunes, but the organization factor is there. It takes all the meta data (artist info) from an album and stores it easily. I wish there was something like this long ago. iTunes = timesaver Some CDs just don't reccognize sometimes, and I'm using CDex for the first time in the highest quality I can get it.

 

[radios shipping overview]

CBR can waste space, and it's usually best for keeping the throughput constant for a certain video/audio standard. VBR can cover bitrate highs that a CBR setting might miss, while saving space on lower-birate sections. I usually find VBR to be the best solution for ogg or mp3 encoding, as there really isn't an inherent quality compromise (unless you're using ogg -q1 or something).

VBR has a bad reputation because it was used by Xing's old mp3 encoder, which always clipped high frequencies that it shoudn't have. VBR has long absolved by LAME (where VBR is the preferred encoding method) and other encoders.

 

[Hitokage]

It really depends on the encoder whether it works well or not.

This is also true.

RaymondCarver: WMA has a lossless mode, but so does jpeg. This does not mean that the format itself is inherently lossless.

jiji: Vorbis is natively VBR. You have to tightly constrain it to get something akin to CBR, and the quality takes a hit.

 

[speedpop]

Best way is to just buy the CD and listen to it through a nice stereo system. Otherwise no matter what format you use, there will be instances of lossness - not that I really care for such things.. I still keep 128cbr mp3's

 

[maharg]

PCM is what's on your CD.

 

[Hitokage]

But on a HD, PCM is a waste of space. Use FLAC when you can.

 

[scorcho]

if you're using the LAME codec for mp3 encoding (and everyone should), use the 'alt-standard' preset, which defaults to a high bitrate VBR mode with customized optimizations to improve the encoding quality.

lossless audio > VBR > CBR > your mom.

 

[RaymondCarver]

PCM, FLAC, it's all confusing thus far. I thought there were just .wav files in high compression on a CD. Go figure.




So, I've got high-end Klipsch 4.1 speakers setup only in 2.1 mode. I hear sounds on these babies that I've never heard in music before. Definitly, Klipsch is quality. Being a music freak, I just had to get the Audigy2 ZS Platinum to go with.


what I've learned so far:

I'm using VBR instead of CBR, and with CDex and have to manually enter my track information. grr.

 

[scorcho]

I'm using VBR instead of CBR, and with CDex and have to manually enter my track information. grr.

can't you access the CDDB database from CDex and have it fill in the CD information? also, don't specify VBR and a bitrate, instead utilize the -altstandard preset.

 

[capslock]

mmmm FLAC.....FLAC goooood.......

 

[Hitokage]

Ok, I'll break it down.

PCM = Digital audio recording.

CD Audio = Digital audio with specific settings.

WAV = Digital audio with a file header.

FLAC (or any other lossless codec) = Compressed digital audio with zero information loss.

MP3 (or any other lossy codec) = Compressed digital audio with information removed to save space, but with the hopes that you won't notice the difference.

Sound Blaster Audigy = Card for gamers, not audiophiles.

 

[Winged Creature]

on a side note, multimedia speakers are not nearly as good as hi fi components, so you can get better sound then those klipsch.

 

[miyuru]

I'M HARDCORE I USE .WAV, NOTHING IS BETTER.

 

[Fresh Prince]

I'M HARDCORE I USE .WAV, NOTHING IS BETTER.

Vinyl > .wav
I WIN!

 

[maharg]

Vinyl > .wav
I WIN!

Yes, distortion rules!

 

[Diablos]

Unless you are concerned about space, VBR is a rip. I'll encode most of my albums at 256kbps CBR over a VBR preset any day.

 

[Midas]

Unless you are concerned about space, VBR is a rip. I'll encode most of my albums at 256kbps CBR over a VBR preset any day.

Baah... --alt-preset extreme, in LAME.

 

[Diablos]

Totally not worth it for those extra few samples that get encoded @ 320.

Once you get to 256kbps you're smooth sailing. Especially at very high quality with LAME 3.96.

 

[aoi tsuki]

But on a HD, PCM is a waste of space. Use FLAC when you can.

FLAC FLAC FLAC!

Unless you need to worry about space, use a lossless compression method like FLAC, APE, or Shorten (SHN). On average, you'll get half the filesize of the raw WAV file with FLAC, which is roughly 5MB per minute. The advantage to using one of these lossless codecs is that you can convert the file back to the original WAV if you need. There's no need to mess with lossy codecs like MP3 or OGG if you've got the hard drive space. Only problem is that iTunes won't recognize FLAC, but practically every other PC player does.

i haven't used CDEX in a good four years, try Exact Audio Copy. With the exception of one the Strider 2 OST, it found all my CDs, even extremely rare ones i thought no one else would've bought and entered into the database.

 

[Phoenix]

No. Given the nature of lossy compression, some waveforms require more data to be preserved than others, and using CBR will result in spans of time where you are using more than you need to reach a level of quality while other spans don't have enough. VBR allows you to balance this out and give bitrate to parts of the song that need it.

Of course, when comparing with 320kbps CBR mp3 then yeah it's mostly a matter of space... and if space is not a consideration stop using lossy compression and use FLAC.

Speaks the truth on all points.

 

[Saint Cornelius]

What about AAC for us Apple folk!?

 

[Fresh Prince]

Yes, distortion rules!

I never heard vinyl but apparently most audiphiles would take vinyl over consumer cd quality (according to my audio lecturer). Also distortion(of sorts) makes vinyl have that warmth and smoothness cd's lack (to my recollection).

 

[maharg]

I never heard vinyl but apparently most audiphiles would take vinyl over consumer cd quality (according to my audio lecturer). Also distortion(of sorts) makes vinyl have that warmth and smoothness cd's lack (to my recollection).

The warmth and smoothness vinyl-lovers always talk about is exactly the distortion I'm talking about. The problem comes when they try to convince you that it's not just something they prefer, having grown up with it, but that it's also more AUTHENTIC.

The fact is, analog may provide a smoother sound, but it's not actually better. CD is about 8 bits per sample per track, and 4000 samples per second short of actual professional recording equipment (44.4khz, 16bit vs 48.8khz, 24bit) and that's really not too far off. Any records produced in the last decade or so are done off that quality source material, anyways.

 

[Winged Creature]

Vinyl > .wav
I WIN!

I use DSD(for whatever SACD's i cant get my hands on), digital music with the warmth of analogue, nothing better

 

[Fresh Prince]

The warmth and smoothness vinyl-lovers always talk about is exactly the distortion I'm talking about. The problem comes when they try to convince you that it's not just something they prefer, having grown up with it, but that it's also more AUTHENTIC.

The fact is, analog may provide a smoother sound, but it's not actually better. CD is about 8 bits per sample per track, and 4000 samples per second short of actual professional recording equipment (44.4khz, 16bit vs 48.8khz, 24bit) and that's really not too far off. Any records produced in the last decade or so are done off that quality source material, anyways.

True, but I have to hear it for myself one day. Anway if you wanted something similar (from what I know of) you could always get a tube amp.

 

[fart]

not everything can decode flac dude

 

[mrklaw]

what does wmp10 use for mp3 ripping?

I'm just starting out on the mp3 thing, so haven't ripped many CDs yet. But I have a bunch to go through when I get started, so want to make sure I'm using the right settings.

I don't need audiophile quality, and need to be compatible with client streaming (xbox, maybe squeezebox)

Is CBR better for streaming compatibility?

 

[Diablos]

Not always. For example you could stream an ogg that is around ~64kbps... its variable, but it is still going to be smaller in size, and still sound better than streaming 128kbps CBR audio...

ogg is ideal for streaming audio on the internet, its better than 128kpbs mp3, better than WMA, better than realaudio, better than quicktime. In other words, it is the best one out there for streaming. Yet no one will really use it, and if they do it is based off of a lossy stream to begin with (i.e. Virgin Radio UK). I don't understand this because ogg is FREE.

 

[maharg]

Generally, VBR or CBR doesn't make any difference to the player for mp3. MPEG is such that every 'frame' of audio is independently encoded, with its own header and everything. Even in a CBR file, the header says what bitrate each frame is.

Some older stuff might assume, but if it's capable of streaming it's probably smarter than that.