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[entremet]

http://www.economist.com/news/ameri...mp-are-fraying-hugo-ch-vezs-regime-revolution

Venezuela is suffering from the combination of years of mismanagement and corruption, and the collapse in the price of oil, which accounts for almost all of its exports. Chávez, an army officer, was the beneficiary of the greatest oil boom in history. From 2000 to 2012, Venezuela received around $800 billion in oil revenue, or two-and-a-half times as much in real terms as in the previous 13 years. He spent the money on “21st-century socialism”.

Some went on health care and low-cost housing for the poor, who hailed Chávez as a secular saint. Some has gone on infrastructure: a few new roads and metro lines were built, years behind schedule. Another chunk was given away in the form of cheap oil to Cuba and to other Caribbean countries, assuring Chávez loyal allies. Perhaps the biggest slice was frittered away or simply stolen. Filling a 60-litre tank with petrol costs less than a dollar at the strongest official exchange rate. Unsurprisingly, petrol worth $2.2 billion a year, according to an official estimate, is smuggled to Colombia and Brazil, with the complicity of the armed forces.

As well as rewarding supporters with state jobs (the public payroll has more than doubled in 16 years), Chávez expropriated or nationalised 1,200 companies, from steelworks to a maker of cleaning products. Most now lose money and require government loans just to meet their payroll, according to Víctor Álvarez, Chávez’s industry minister in 2005-06. The state subjugates the still-large private sector through price controls, which discourage investment and production. The result is that Venezuela imports much of the food and consumer goods it used to produce, though not enough to meet demand.

Under Mr Maduro the controls have become more draconian. Blaming retailers for the queues outside their shops, this month the government arrested the bosses of a big pharmacy chain and a supermarket company, both of which it has commandeered. Then there is the labyrinth of exchange controls. Until it was modified this month, there were three separate official exchange rates, ranging from 6.30 to the dollar for food and medicines to 50 for many other imports. On the black market, a dollar will buy 180 bolívares. (Since the largest denomination is only 100 bolívares, currency transactions involve fat wads of banknotes.)

Simply crazy what's happening there.

 

[markot]

http://www.economist.com/news/ameri...mp-are-fraying-hugo-ch-vezs-regime-revolution



Simply crazy what's happening there.

Yeah, it used to be so nice. Its always better when the rich plunder. Their plundering is classier.

 

[gutter_trash]

when your successor is a bus driver.....

 

[Kenshin001]

One thing that has always fascinated me is how these countries come into massive oil wealth but still end up dysfunctional. Especially Venezuela because you'd think they could sustain reducing poverty and economic growth with an equitable social democracy policy similar to the Nordic states.

 

[Coriolanus]

One thing that has always fascinated me is how these countries come into massive oil wealth but still end up dysfunctional. Especially Venezuela because you'd think they could sustain reducing poverty and economic growth with an equitable social democracy policy similar to the Nordic states.

Corruption.

Not a surprise to anyone living in south america, tbh.

 

[HK-47]

One thing that has always fascinated me is how these countries come into massive oil wealth but still end up dysfunctional. Especially Venezuela because you'd think they could sustain reducing poverty and economic growth with an equitable social democracy policy similar to the Nordic states.

Corruption dude. Wealth doesnt create ethics.

 

[Divvy]

From what I've heard, shit is getting dire there. My friend mentioned how there were 170 reported murders in the first 10 or so days of 2015 alone.

 

[entremet]

From what I've heard, shit is getting dire there. My friend mentioned how there were 170 reported murders in the first 10 or so days of 2015 alone.

There's a huge food allocation problem too. People are starving quite literally.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm surprised they have not collapsed yet.

 

[Piecake]

It always boggled my mind how some GAFers could defend Venezuela when the shit started getting obviously dire.

 

[Divvy]

There's a huge food allocation problem too. People are starving quite literally.

Yeah people are actually killing each other in the streets over food.

 

[titiklabingapat]

My libertarian friend keeps posting shit about Venezuela and keeps insisting that this is the reason why socialism is bad mmkay.

 

[Kenshin001]

Corruption.

Not a surprise to anyone living in south america, tbh.

Yeah I know about the corruption. There is corruption everywhere. I just can't comprehend how it becomes so overwhelming and unmanageable as to be detrimental to the country's development. I mean you have a lot of poor people, then you are blessed with billions in oil money, it just seems logical to me for a government to endeavour to build an equitable society.

 

[Piecake]

My libertarian friend keeps posting shit about Venezuela and keeps insisting that this is the reason why socialism is bad mmkay.

You should start posting shit about Somalia (or if that is a bad example, another countr) and constantly talk about that that is the reason why Libertarianism is bad.

 

[ezrarh]

One thing that has always fascinated me is how these countries come into massive oil wealth but still end up dysfunctional. Especially Venezuela because you'd think they could sustain reducing poverty and economic growth with an equitable social democracy policy similar to the Nordic states.

When a country already has a strong governmental institution, wealth from resources will help a lot. If it's already corrupt, the resource wealth exacerbates the corruption and a lot times will make the situation even worse. Strong institutions are what makes a good society.

 

[Coriolanus]

Yeah I know about the corruption. There is corruption everywhere. I just can't comprehend how it becomes so overwhelming and unmanageable as to be detrimental to the country's development. I mean you have a lot of poor people, then you are blessed with billions in oil money, it just seems logical to me for a government to endeavour to build an equitable society.

Why would they? Giving the people scraps gets them reelected constantly. Better the devil you know and allathat. Better equipped voters would only raise more problems.

I mean, fuck, i live in one of the best states in Brazil, and we been electing the same guy for a senate seat for 28 straight years. It's feudalism.

They just spend some locally and store the rest outside the country, then bail when the situation starts to get truly dire.

Systemic corruption needs a major upheaval to actually be fought.

You should start posting shit about Somalia (or if that is a bad example, another countr) and constantly talk about that that is the reason why Libertarianism is bad.

Or the decades of libertarianism in Paraguay.

 

[Pelydr]

My libertarian friend keeps posting shit about Venezuela and keeps insisting that this is the reason why socialism is bad mmkay.

Why would you be friends with a libertarian? They tend to be sociopaths.

 

[Fiktion]

My libertarian friend keeps posting shit about Venezuela and keeps insisting that this is the reason why socialism is bad mmkay.

Does he know about Norway?

 

[Stinkles]

Where's that clown who keeps canonizing Chavez, lionizing Maduro and blaming America for this?

 

[Kenshin001]

When a country already has a strong governmental institution, wealth from resources will help a lot. If it's already corrupt, the resource wealth exacerbates the corruption and a lot times will make the situation even worse. Strong institutions are what makes a good society.

But I think it's difficult to have strong institutions without wealth. If the government can't pay salaries and everyone is being paid a pittance then that encourages corruption. Oil rich governments have billions at their disposal with which to strengthen government institutions. It just seems some deficiency of logic at a societal level that holds these countries back.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Where's that clown who keeps canonizing Chavez, lionizing Maduro and blaming America for this?

Do you mean EmptyVessel? He's been banned for a long time, if I remember correctly.

Just checked, and I was wrong. Not banned.

 

[ciridesu]

But I think it's difficult to have strong institutions without wealth. If the government can't pay salaries and everyone is being paid a pittance then that encourages corruption. Oil rich governments have billions at their disposal with which to strengthen government institutions. It just seems some deficiency of logic at a societal level that holds these countries back.

If you believe that humans are inherently selfish, it's not such a wonder after all. When you're in power, and you have access to great wealth, which you wouldn't if you weren't in power, then wouldn't you do everything you can to stay in power? Especially when that 'you' is a group of people, in which it is likely that at least a few would do everything to stay in power. Result, corruption and dictatorship. Look at every single significant oil country out there: middle-eastern governments, Africa, South-America, Russia... all corrupt. Norway is pretty much a sole exception.

Also, another reason for why every oil country is usually corrupt is the fact that they usually have no private sector and thus influential private opposition because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

Venezuela is in a sad state, especially considering how much potential they have. I have no doubt they'll get back on track soon enough though given their oil reserves. Some day!

 

[Stinkles]

Maduro started rounding up dissenters. Wow.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-31545963

 

[benjipwns]

Maduro started rounding up dissenters. Wow.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-31545963

Uh, no, it was a legal arrest of a enemy of the people who was undermining the "country's peace, security, constitution."

It's these corrupt neoliberal wreckers who are always undermining the system for personal gain instead of working for the people. Maduro is simply doing the bare minimum he can to keep the people safe from hoarders and collaborators. If he didn't have the threat of a Western U.S. led coup breathing down his neck he probably could put an end to all the problems quickly by continuing the Bolivian Revolution that Chavez started.

 

[Stinkles]

Uh, no, it was a legal arrest of a enemy of the people who was undermining the "country's peace, security, constitution."

It's these corrupt neoliberal wreckers who are always undermining the system for personal gain instead of working for the people. Maduro is simply doing the bare minimum he can to keep the people safe from hoarders and collaborators. If he didn't have the threat of a Western U.S. led coup breathing down his neck he probably could put an end to all the problems quickly by continuing the Bolivian Revolution that Chavez started.

Lol I read from the bottom up and wasn't sure if Poe's Law till I got to your username.

 

[Kenshin001]

Uh, no, it was a legal arrest of a enemy of the people who was undermining the "country's peace, security, constitution."

It's these corrupt neoliberal wreckers who are always undermining the system for personal gain instead of working for the people. Maduro is simply doing the bare minimum he can to keep the people safe from hoarders and collaborators. If he didn't have the threat of a Western U.S. led coup breathing down his neck he probably could put an end to all the problems quickly by continuing the Bolivian Revolution that Chavez started.

This reads like satire. Are you serious? The Bolivian Revolution Chavez started is a failure. Maduro is a failure. Imprisoning opposition leaders is the hallmark of a dictatorship. If he is fearful of a coup he is doing a damn good job of ensuring one happens.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Uh, no, it was a legal arrest of a enemy of the people who was undermining the "country's peace, security, constitution."

It's these corrupt neoliberal wreckers who are always undermining the system for personal gain instead of working for the people. Maduro is simply doing the bare minimum he can to keep the people safe from hoarders and collaborators. If he didn't have the threat of a Western U.S. led coup breathing down his neck he probably could put an end to all the problems quickly by continuing the Bolivian Revolution that Chavez started.

is this a joke post

 

[Blader]

Where's that clown who keeps canonizing Chavez, lionizing Maduro and blaming America for this?

heh, I had the exact same thought reading the OP.

 

[WAR recon zero]

The revolution was good. Chavez got shit done. But he had to buy his way to power with corruption and now everything works on corruption.

So sad shitty situation all around hope they find a middle ground

 

[Stinkles]

This reads like satire. Are you serious? The Bolivian Revolution Chavez started is a failure. Maduro is a failure. Imprisoning opposition leaders is the hallmark of a dictatorship. If he is fearful of a coup he is doing a damn good job of ensuring one happens.

He's kidding, but channeling a real poster.

 

[benjipwns]

This reads like satire. Are you serious? The Bolivian Revolution Chavez started is a failure. Maduro is a failure. Imprisoning opposition leaders is the hallmark of a dictatorship. If he is fearful of a coup he is doing a damn good job of ensuring one happens.

is this a joke post

You're probably just some bourgeoisie ex-pats upset that they couldn't steal from the people anymore instead of true working class Venezuelans all of whom support the Revolution as evidenced by Chavez/Maduro's success in acquiring a mandate in the free and fair elections.

 

[Kenshin001]

He's kidding, but channeling a real poster.

OK thanks. Given some of the ridiculous posts I've read in OT I can never know for sure.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

You're probably just some bourgeoisie ex-pats upset that they couldn't steal from the people anymore instead of true working class Venezuelans all of whom support the Revolution as evidenced by Chavez/Maduro's success in acquiring a mandate in the free and fair elections.

All Comrades know that posts must be at least five paragraphs of jargon long, benji. We can sniff you out.

 

[benjipwns]

All Comrades know that posts must be at least five paragraphs of jargon long, benji. We can sniff you out.

Jargon rations were increased from two per sentence to five per paragraph this month.

 

[dinazimmerman]

it's a shame empty vessel is banned

 

[Log4Girlz]

Chavez was so far ahead of his time, obviously no one could take his place.

 

[Stinkles]

By he way I'm Venezuelan and I'm living in this shit hole if you have any questions.

I made a thread a few days ago about making only $46 a months.

Where do you think things are headed? Are the blue collar folks starting to figure it out yet? Is there popular dissent?

 

[rhandino]

By he way I'm Venezuelan and I'm living in this shit hole if you have any questions.

I made a thread a few days ago about making only $46 a months.

Oh men, that's harsh... I am from Honduras and a lot of people here really are worried about the situation there.

How are the things right now? Is the food problem at least not as bad as the reports say?

God, and to think that our ex-President was supporting that trash regimen T_T

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

By he way I'm Venezuelan and I'm living in this shit hole if you have any questions.

I made a thread a few days ago about making only $46 a months.

Stay safe. Sounds rough right now.

 

[benjipwns]

it's a shame empty vessel is banned

He's not, he's just tired of all the neoliberal Western lies here and the mods supporting them. (Or something like that.)

 

[Piecake]

Uh, no, it was a legal arrest of a enemy of the people who was undermining the "country's peace, security, constitution."

It's these corrupt neoliberal wreckers who are always undermining the system for personal gain instead of working for the people. Maduro is simply doing the bare minimum he can to keep the people safe from hoarders and collaborators. If he didn't have the threat of a Western U.S. led coup breathing down his neck he probably could put an end to all the problems quickly by continuing the Bolivian Revolution that Chavez started.

Yup, I mean, they are secretly fascists as well. Maduro had to arrest them to prevent them taking over the people's government and turning it into a militaristic and totalitarian state.

 

[ShutEye]

I have a friend in Caracas. He sends photos from the very empty shops to give an idea of how crappy it's got. Venezuelans deserve better than this.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Where's that clown who keeps canonizing Chavez, lionizing Maduro and blaming America for this?

Empty Vessel post if you are OK.

 

[Piecake]

Empty Vessel post if you are OK.

He's probably starving in Venezuela and can't afford to get on the internet anymore.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Empty Vessel post if you are OK.

He knows the truth. ..Chavez was the greatest leader of our time

 

[Log4Girlz]

Empty Vessel is an apt name for a Venezuelan poster if you think about it.

 

[Piano]

Empty Vessel post if you are OK.

Didn't he get banned?
It's weird having a Venezuela thread without him to white knight.

 

[benjipwns]

I have a friend in Caracas. He sends photos from the very empty shops to give an idea of how crappy it's got. Venezuelans deserve better than this.

Yep, the government needs to crack down on those greedy capitalist hoarders and get the goods back in the shops for low low prices instead of allowing U.S. corporate interests to finance the hoarders black market behavior. If the capitalist shopkeepers don't want to sell their goods at a reasonable price, then the government should take over their business for them because they clearly don't know the point of running a store.

And throw them in jail for conspiracy to price gouge, hoard goods, and exploit the people.

 

[rhandino]

Empty Vessel is an apt name for a Venezuelan poster if you think about it.

Pleaseee, you made me laugh about this serious issue and now I feel sad T_T

 

[Karkador]

Yep, the government needs to crack down on those greedy capitalist hoarders and get the goods back in the shops for low low prices instead of allowing U.S. corporate interests to finance the hoarders black market behavior. If the capitalist shopkeepers don't want to sell their goods at a reasonable price, then the government should take over their business for them because they clearly don't know the point of running a store.

And throw them in jail for conspiracy to price gouge, hoard goods, and exploit the people.

We hereby ban the capitalist invention that is money, and we will be coming around to dispose of it in these cloth bags.