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Venezuela: Mismanagement, corruption and the oil slump are fraying Chávezs regime
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Such a shame. Venezuela had the opportunity to be the Norway of Latin America. Instead they blew it and became the Russia of the America's. Massive corruption along with a decrepit economy = failing state. If this shit goes on there very well could be a popular uprising, which of course will be labelled a CIA coup attempt by the anti Western coalition leaders in Moscow and Tehran.
Coriolanus
Banned
So did Brazil. And Argentina.
Older i get, the more i think corruption will always be the dominant force in South America.
entremet
Member
I don't know about that. Latin America has huge wealth disparities and infrastructure problems.
Poverty is really rampant as well. I speaks as someone who's traveled in the region. There are many villages made of sheet metal homes. And forget about the drug trade and its huge influence as well.
Last weekend I was talking with a Venezuelan expat, and I asked him about one very glaring omission in these type of articles: About the relationship between the ascent of Chaves and the deterioration of public safety and steep growth of crime. I always wondered why these two things happened in tandem and if there was any connexion between them.
Lo and behold, it seems that Chavez had the great fucking idea of distributing fire arms among the most impoverished districts of Venezuela so they could "defend the revolution" and "protect from the burgeois". The results were instead a brutal rise in crime and gun deaths, which deeply affects the everyday life of the ordinary Venezuelan far more than any kind of economic idiocy. Shit's infuriating and unforgivable, as it has resulted in countless deaths of innocents for no fucking reason other than political posturing. If this is not a sign of madness and evil, nothing is.
Lo and behold, it seems that Chavez had the great fucking idea of distributing fire arms among the most impoverished districts of Venezuela so they could "defend the revolution" and "protect from the burgeois". The results were instead a brutal rise in crime and gun deaths, which deeply affects the everyday life of the ordinary Venezuelan far more than any kind of economic idiocy. Shit's infuriating and unforgivable, as it has resulted in countless deaths of innocents for no fucking reason other than political posturing. If this is not a sign of madness and evil, nothing is.
Coriolanus
Banned
Youd be hard pressed to find countries that suffer from chronic poverty and wealth disparity that dont also score quite damn high in corruption charts. Aint many of those around.
I think the biggest factor of Caracas being the most dangerous city in the world is that the police and local army run the biggest crimes.
The police and the local army were already corrupt as fuck before the arrival of Chavez and his brilliant idea of giving weapons like candy, yet the violence levels were not nearly as bad as they are nowadays.
Of All Trades
Member
Deep corruption has to be solved before any of that can be fixed. As long as civic faith is zilch there's no way to prevent government services and projects from devolving into cronyism and tribalism which further entrench the corruption.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Chamo, how well do you eat, pay for appliances, entretainment with 46 bucks? Does your SO/family help with the expenses? Do you get any help from the goverment?
just crazy, who thinks this was a good idea
Corronchilejano
Member
No we don't
we do.
This is a very complex situation, and it's hard to tackle.
Empty Space
Member
Where are you getting that Chavez distributed guns to the poor? Gun ownership was made illegal under Chavez. When did he just hand out guns? Do you have a source for him doings this?
So uh, the revolution has started in Venezuela
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http://www.vox.com/2015/2/26/8115535/venezuela-protests-photos
I mean, we could all say we saw it coming. I don't think I expected it to heat up this fast.
http://www.vox.com/2015/2/26/8115535/venezuela-protests-photos
I mean, we could all say we saw it coming. I don't think I expected it to heat up this fast.
Revolutions work when the government can't pay the military or the police. And Venezuela is on the road to having this problem. My guess is if oil stays at current prices until the end of the year, there will be significant changes in Venezuela. As to what that change will look like, I couldn't tell you yet.
benjipwns
Banned
Tragic to see U.S. CIA coups being treated as actual revolutions of the people. I wonder how many of those are actual Venezuelans. I doubt it's more than a few, and likely all upper middle class.
Now that these counterrevolutionary traitors are out in the open the government needs to quickly stamp them out and restore the road to socialism. By seizing their hoarded goods and money they can redistribute it to the people and end the shortages.
Now that these counterrevolutionary traitors are out in the open the government needs to quickly stamp them out and restore the road to socialism. By seizing their hoarded goods and money they can redistribute it to the people and end the shortages.
MisterFalcon
Member
Somewhere some greedy capitalist is hoarding all the toilet paper. Kick down some doors comrades and beat up some non-Chavez voters until they reveal where !
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Seriously, if this happened I need to know. It's too crazy.
No, he's joking. He does this in a number of threads but he's not very good at it.
benjipwns
Banned
Someone has to defend democracy with EV gone and Zuhzuhzuhzombie!!! broken.
Those are all CIA agents.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Pro Maduro manifestations are also huge.
People are 50-50 on the guy so a civil war may be the only outcome. Pretty similar to what happened in Colombia 70 years ago...
Hope you are not violent fuckers as we were
People are 50-50 on the guy so a civil war may be the only outcome. Pretty similar to what happened in Colombia 70 years ago...
Hope you are not violent fuckers as we were
I should have asked him about the specifics, but the increase of violence is undoubtely tied to the Chavez regime. He disbanded local police forces at will in cities ruled by the opposition, encouraged the formation of "milicias bolivarianas" (bolivarian militias) which putted arms in the hands of the poorest members of society, and a lot of the Chavist rethoric supported the idea of an armed popullace against "tyranny" ("el pueblo en armas") not unlike libertarian advocates of gun rights. It all looks worringly pre-civil war like
Corronchilejano
Member
Not even close to what happened here in Colombia. Even if guerrillas happened here since the 40s and 50s the mentality dates back all the way to the beginning of the century and the perpetual hatred the two party system left us. When both FARC and ELN appeared they did so against a government that told them to kill each other for the good of all, with strong comunist ties.
In Venezuela we have a corrupt single party with a visible head, and nothing else. If there was an armed revolution it won't be of armed civilians, it'll be a coup.
Gusy
Member
Hey Machado.. I'm Venezuelan too. Living in Caracas. I'm aware of how shitty our situation is right now. I'm also tired and angry as I'm sure you also are. But calling your country a shit hole is doing a great disservice to your country, countrymates and yourself. The murderous gangsters that are governing us right now are doing a well enough job of putting us in the worst light we've ever been.
Don't spit on the floor of your own house... Protest any way you can while you're still here.. This could still someday be a vibrant, beautiful country if we start taking better care of it.
Maduro..."Fried Bananas" is all I see when I read his name. Seriously what the heck were they thinking by promoting an uneducated bus driver to run things??? Is anyone actually surprised that this is happening?
In my job I used to do a lot of sales to Venezuela...its all dried up and for the few that are able to get money out of the country to buy goods, the hurdles are ridiculous. One can only spend $300.00/year outside the country (ie internet sales)...this amount was brought down from 3k. For the few sales that I've managed to do close in the last two years, I'm often asked to run multiple cards from various friends and family members to buy a single product...utterly crazy!
I have one guy who has spent the last 6 months trying to send me a sizeable amount to secure a deal I gave him and even though his bank is claiming all is well, nothing ever gets here...
In my job I used to do a lot of sales to Venezuela...its all dried up and for the few that are able to get money out of the country to buy goods, the hurdles are ridiculous. One can only spend $300.00/year outside the country (ie internet sales)...this amount was brought down from 3k. For the few sales that I've managed to do close in the last two years, I'm often asked to run multiple cards from various friends and family members to buy a single product...utterly crazy!
I have one guy who has spent the last 6 months trying to send me a sizeable amount to secure a deal I gave him and even though his bank is claiming all is well, nothing ever gets here...
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Wow, sounds pretty messed up over there. Best of luck getting through these rough times, and I hope that you can either get a visa or secure a higher paying job in the near future.
I've observed that some people instinctively mistrust government, while others reflexively defend them. Some people are big proponents of corporations, while others instinctively distrust them.
I believe a lot of political differences come from these basic gut feelings: people who instinctively distrust government will frequently lean conservative, because they will automatically assume the worst whenever the government is involved. Someone who distrusts corporations reflexively will tend to lean liberal, and will not trust GMOs, for instance, or pharmaceuticals, because they happen to be made by corporations.
That isn't to say there aren't reasonable people on both sides; there are. I'm just pointing out that a lot of differences ultimately spring out of these very rudimentary premises. If you start with the premise that governments help people and can be trusted, you'll arrive at very different conclusions than someone who starts with the premise that governments are inherently corrupt and inept.
I believe a lot of political differences come from these basic gut feelings: people who instinctively distrust government will frequently lean conservative, because they will automatically assume the worst whenever the government is involved. Someone who distrusts corporations reflexively will tend to lean liberal, and will not trust GMOs, for instance, or pharmaceuticals, because they happen to be made by corporations.
That isn't to say there aren't reasonable people on both sides; there are. I'm just pointing out that a lot of differences ultimately spring out of these very rudimentary premises. If you start with the premise that governments help people and can be trusted, you'll arrive at very different conclusions than someone who starts with the premise that governments are inherently corrupt and inept.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I don't think many people have these fundamentals views about government and the state (beside benji) but rather institutions. Conservatives distrust regulatory agencies but have a fundamental good view of the military. Socialists trust academia but distrust corporations.
I think its reductive to even attempt to see this in a kind of black and white in regards to government per se. Its much more likely people trust the institutions that agree with their fundamental presumptions. This change change as the composition of such institutions changes (see the US south go from the biggest lovers of big government to hating it when it became "liberalized" and integrated, or this leaving of European socialists parties when they gave up much of their socialist rhetoric and ideas in the 80s and 90s.)
Democracy? Lol yeah lets vote to fix this...
I'm glad there is more acknowledgment of how bad things are in this thread. In previous topics, it was frustrating to read posts from certain people with an agenda who have never even stepped foot in Venezuela telling other posters like Machado, who actually live there, how wrong they are and other posters actually buying it.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Leopoldo Lopez and the caracas mayor have been linked with far right and neonazis
They have publicly sponsored a coup (we will march until he is out of the chair, were the words used)
Unfortunately that is fucked up. Speaking as an outsider.
Also speaking as a Colombian there are lots of Venezuelan gasoline in the border and lots of Venezuelan beauty products entering illegally.
They have publicly sponsored a coup (we will march until he is out of the chair, were the words used)
Unfortunately that is fucked up. Speaking as an outsider.
Also speaking as a Colombian there are lots of Venezuelan gasoline in the border and lots of Venezuelan beauty products entering illegally.
I think this is reasonable and more nuanced, thanks.
These protestors were sent by the US government to destabilize the people's government. Western rabble rousing. Don't worry it's all under control.
(I think-hope the military will see the writing on the wall and shift allegiance)
WAR recon zero
Banned
Check out @MrYellow_'s Tweet: https://twitter.com/MrYellow_/status/570599234040418304?s=09
Chavez's daughter atm receipt
Chavez's daughter atm receipt
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I realize this is from a couple weeks ago but I agree that it's difficult to have a strong institutions without wealth. I am arguing that without a strong government beforehand (by that I mean strong judicial system, good checks and balances, good civilian corp for managing, etc) a sudden massive influx of wealth will ultimately lend itself to being mismanaged.
How do you get strong institutions without wealth in the first place? I think partly by having a strong stable government founded by the people of the country. A lot of these countries with significant natural resources weren't always countries as they are now with the borders drawn up by colonial powers. The subsequent colonial governments and dictators supported by the Western countries do not lay a good foundation for governance.
I hope the best for the Venezuelan people with their protests but is there a strong counterpoint to the current government? Without another well organized political group to take over, all I see is a big mess for the future but something needs to change.
um, protesting is not a coup. Unless you agree that marching should be suppressed.
Ganzlinger
Member
This is the result of Bolivarianism and socialism in South America. As a Brazilian I fear for the future of the continent with our neighbours and our government making bad economical decisions. Good thing Peru, Chile and Colombia are doing well.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Whoever is in charge of sending these protestors around the world needs a raise. What a fantastic job they do. You know your work is appreciated when other people mention it.
corruptioin and the fact that they sell the oil for peanuts to countries like cuba, hell, i think they give it for free to them.
benjipwns
Banned
They're paid by the Rothchilds and IMF through the World Bank as part of a mission to crush the people under the boot of the expat bourgeoisie, here let me get my pamphlets.
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