Support NeoGAF

[gofreak]

Has their been a thread for this interview with Cerny it's in Japanese? it was sent to me by danhese007 but I'm not able to make threads.


http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/20130325_593036.html

That's interesting. Just working off a google translate here, but it seems like there's interesting stuff in there.

He talks, publicly, about the ACE changes they made.

He also talks about what is referred to as the Onion+ bus in the OP diagrams - that this mechanism for bypassing GPU cache was put in there as another GPGPU optimisation.

He says he doesn't expect devs to really exploit these features in launch games, they're there for longer term exploration and optimisation.

He seems to say this, and the ACE stuff, were inspired by their experience with SPUs and SPU utilisation.

 

[phosphor112]

Has their been a thread for this interview with Cerny it's in Japanese? it was sent to me by danhese007 but I'm not able to make threads.


http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/20130325_593036.html

Still think that's stupid.. but whatever. I'll post it, but not until we can get some translations on what it says.

That's interesting. Just working off a google translate here, but it seems like there's interesting stuff in there.

He talks, publicly, about the ACE changes they made.

He also talks about what is referred to as the Onion+ bus in the OP diagrams - that this mechanism for bypassing GPU cache was put in there as another GPGPU optimisation.

He says he doesn't expect devs to really exploit these features in launch games, they're there for longer term exploration and optimisation.

He seems to say this, and the ACE stuff, were inspired by their experience with SPUs and SPU utilisation.

Oh man, reading the google translation hurts my brain.

 

[Insane Metal]

That's interesting. Just working off a google translate here, but it seems like there's interesting stuff in there.

He talks, publicly, about the ACE changes they made.

He also talks about what is referred to as the Onion+ bus in the OP diagrams - that this mechanism for bypassing GPU cache was put in there as another GPGPU optimisation.

He says he doesn't expect devs to really exploit these features in launch games, they're there for longer term exploration and optimisation.

He seems to say this, and the ACE stuff, were inspired by their experience with SPUs and SPU utilisation.

That is VERY interesting.

 

[gofreak]

Couple of other tidbits:

the article was at one point corrected to distinguish between a lack of general CD support and a lack of music CD support, with some mention of 'game compatibility' - so maybe PSone discs wil be playable..?

Cerny says the OS is BSD-based. To support rich multitasking. I'm not really sure of the significance of the 'BSD-based' comment, or how much of its BSD roots will be exposed to the consumer, but Cerny says it's the first time they used that approach in a games machine.

Talks also about the break from Cell. That this was a difficult decision, but they ultimately decided to prioritise developer comfort.

The idea of a secondary chip for low-power-state usage started to be talked about in 2009. European regulations around power consumption were part of the motivation.

Seems to talk about the progressive download tech being applicable to Blu-ray -> HDD data exchange, for faster game loading off discs edit - actually, this may have been just an analogy to help explain progressive download..using the example of HDD caching of data off optical disc...so...nevermind

 

[Wishmaster92]

Couple of other tidbits:

the article was at one point corrected to distinguish between a lack of general CD support and a lack of music CD support, with some mention of 'game compatibility' - so maybe PSone discs wil be playable..?

Cerny says the OS is BSD-based. To support rich multitasking.

Talks also about the break from Cell. That this was a difficult decision, but they ultimately decided to prioritise developer comfort.

The idea of a secondary chip for low-power-state usage started to be talked about in 2009. European regulations around power consumption were part of the motivation.

Seems to talk about the progressive download tech being applicable to Blu-ray -> HDD data exchange, for faster game loading off discs.

I'm guessing this means that games will still install the game partition onto the hdd? Hopefully Sony increased read speeds since i have an ssd ready for the ps4.

 

[gofreak]

I'm guessing this means that games will still install the game partition onto the hdd? Hopefully Sony increased read speeds since i have an ssd ready for the ps4.

I'm not sure actually about the translation on that bit...he may have been just making an analogy between how games cache data on a hdd off blu-ray, caching enough to play the game. Using that analogy to explain progressive download, that it's kind of like that, but over the network. So maybe he wasn't talking about how that blu-ray/hdd relationship in PS4 works, per se.

 

[googleplex]

I'm guessing this means that games will still install the game partition onto the hdd? Hopefully Sony increased read speeds since i have an ssd ready for the ps4.

If the PS4 let's you install your own SSD I'd be amazed. More then likely the PS4 will have an drm proprietary hard drive.

 

[onQ123]

That's interesting. Just working off a google translate here, but it seems like there's interesting stuff in there.

He talks, publicly, about the ACE changes they made.

He also talks about what is referred to as the Onion+ bus in the OP diagrams - that this mechanism for bypassing GPU cache was put in there as another GPGPU optimisation.

He says he doesn't expect devs to really exploit these features in launch games, they're there for longer term exploration and optimisation.

He seems to say this, and the ACE stuff, were inspired by their experience with SPUs and SPU utilisation.

Cell lives on in the PS4 GPGPU.

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

GPGPU Computing & why you should be more excited about Kinect 2 & the Next PS-Eye.,

 

[benny_a]

If the PS4 let's you install your own SSD I'd be amazed. More then likely the PS4 will have an drm proprietary hard drive.

The PS3 allowed it.

Unless you change tracks a lot in GT5, there is not much benefit.

 

[googleplex]

The PS3 allowed it.

Unless you change tracks a lot in GT5, there is not much benefit.

Yes the PS3 allowed it and it is awesome. But the amount of money Microsoft made on hard drives was crazy. As much as I loved having that freedom at a PS3 owner, Sony left a ton of money on the table.

 

[phosphor112]

Yeah, reading through this, it's very detail oriented. I wish someone can do a proper translation for us, it is really worthy of a new thread. They don't use HSA (I THINK) but their own optimizations because AMD wasn't ready or something? But they are using OpenGL to the point of "full access to the hardware."

They mention having to drop BC as being a necessary evil to make sure devs will be happy going forward. Using what they learned from the Cell to make a powerful console and having to modify the GPU, etc (via ACE).

He also talks about 4k gaming, and he said they are focusing on 1080p, but he did say that they can, for example, put the OS UI in 4k, but render the game in 1080p. With that, he says they'd like to save as many resources as possible to ensure that 1080p because having the 4k UI alone will take 10 GB/s.

They also said support for CD was dropped because of how the new DVD/BD player reads the data? (speed?)

He also mentions the custom on CPU chip and monitors all I/O systems (confirms ARM TrustZone). Mentions background downloads and smaller initial sizes and play while downloading.

He mentions using BD and Hard drive combo for game reads and how to cut down load times.

Cerny also discusses the dedicated audio and video compression/decompression hardware for sharing videos and vita remote play.

The Android/iOS Playstation App lets you access all things Playstation. Store, game info, etc.

Regarding adding Vita remote play: "almost no overhead, without pain whatsoever, you will be able to Remote Play a game of PS4."
So basically all PS4 games can be played on Vita EXCEPT those who use controller tracking or Move with the PS Eye.

They also talk about off-TV play.

Not all features will be there day one, but they will try to support everything they are planing going forward.

Also, OS is BSD.

 

[phosphor112]

Couple of other tidbits:

the article was at one point corrected to distinguish between a lack of general CD support and a lack of music CD support, with some mention of 'game compatibility' - so maybe PSone discs wil be playable..?

Cerny says the OS is BSD-based. To support rich multitasking. I'm not really sure of the significance of the 'BSD-based' comment, or how much of its BSD roots will be exposed to the consumer, but Cerny says it's the first time they used that approach in a games machine.

Talks also about the break from Cell. That this was a difficult decision, but they ultimately decided to prioritise developer comfort.

The idea of a secondary chip for low-power-state usage started to be talked about in 2009. European regulations around power consumption were part of the motivation.

Seems to talk about the progressive download tech being applicable to Blu-ray -> HDD data exchange, for faster game loading off discs edit - actually, this may have been just an analogy to help explain progressive download..using the example of HDD caching of data off optical disc...so...nevermind

GAAAH! Lol. You beat me too it. *shakes fist* FINE! YOU MAKE THE THREAD!

 

[gofreak]

GAAAH! Lol. You beat me too it. *shakes fist* FINE! YOU MAKE THE THREAD!

No, you! Yours is more detailed Plus I don't know, maybe someone with a better native translation will come along. But maybe a new thread will bring it to their attention. I'll leave it to you

 

[Zoe]

Yes the PS3 allowed it and it is awesome. But the amount of money Microsoft made on hard drives was crazy. As much as I loved having that freedom at a PS3 owner, Sony left a ton of money on the table.

They have Sony branded PS3 drives now. Only in Europe for the SuperSlim, but you still have the option to use OEM drives for them.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I can't tell if this is a joke post. DDR5 isn't a thing (yet) and DDR4 is not faster than DDR3, it just has the potential to go to higher clock speeds.

It's poking at people who keep calling. GDDR5 DDR5.

Beyond that, the specification mandates DDR4 ram support up to 240 GBps bandwidth which means actual DDR5 will be far beyond GDDR5 in terms of bandwidth even if it's over 15 years from even existing. Fully compliant DDR4 chips likely wont be out til 2015. I'm quite aware of that.

 

[phosphor112]

You're too kind lol. =P Will do, making it now.

 

[Amir0x]

There was an option for 2 GB of RAM initially. I've been told this by a variety of people. The initial VG leaks document they had even specified 2 GB. We were all mega excited when 4 was announced, but 8 was something no one saw coming.

Because this change is apparently so new, it's going to be wild to see the system evolve over time as developers start making games with that higher spec in mind.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Couple of other tidbits:

the article was at one point corrected to distinguish between a lack of general CD support and a lack of music CD support, with some mention of 'game compatibility' - so maybe PSone discs wil be playable..?

Cerny says the OS is BSD-based. To support rich multitasking. I'm not really sure of the significance of the 'BSD-based' comment, or how much of its BSD roots will be exposed to the consumer, but Cerny says it's the first time they used that approach in a games machine.

BSD-based means it has a relatively stable kernel. It's far more stable than say the linux kernel. It also means they don't have to release the source code of their fork. Now, unix based systems have standard POSIX threading library that almost every CS or SE major has experience with so that makes it much easier to program towards as opposed to a completely custom threading library.

 

[phosphor112]

New thread here.

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=51579141

 

[likedamaster]

The meltdowns when they finally reveal the specs to be 8gb of GDDR5 for devkit, 4gb retail.

Interesting either way.

 

[Reiko]

The meltdowns when they finally reveal the specs to be 8gb of GDDR5 for devkit, 4gb retail.

Interesting either way.

Uhhhhh... 8GB for console...