Air Zombie Meat
Member
Right. Try telling all the furious conservative party members and mps that it wasn't a disaster for them and see how they react.
Vice: "Corbyn Won Because Hope Turned the Unthinkable Into Reality"
- Thread starter AuthenticM
- Start date
Right. Try telling all the furious conservative party members and mps that it wasn't a disaster for them and see how they react.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Corbyn 'won' because
1 - Tory campaign was total shit, or they lost on purpose to gracefully bow out of hard Brexit
2 - Corbyn promised a fantasy list of things to people that would not have fit the budget, he banked on not having to execute them
3 - Corbyn ran a better campaign and connected with youth
It's an impressive feat but I don't think his victory is quite the second coming of Jesus labour supporters (many of whom previously wanted him ousted) are making it to be. He didn't lead labour to victory, and his plans remain as unrealistic as always. But he executed well on a difficult situation and now as a result has momentum.
1 - Tory campaign was total shit, or they lost on purpose to gracefully bow out of hard Brexit
2 - Corbyn promised a fantasy list of things to people that would not have fit the budget, he banked on not having to execute them
3 - Corbyn ran a better campaign and connected with youth
It's an impressive feat but I don't think his victory is quite the second coming of Jesus labour supporters (many of whom previously wanted him ousted) are making it to be. He didn't lead labour to victory, and his plans remain as unrealistic as always. But he executed well on a difficult situation and now as a result has momentum.
Let's not forget how Corbyn brought Labour to spitting distance of the Tory's share of the vote while facing an almost universally foaming-at-the-mouth hostile press. From the overt bullshit the Sun peddled to the "subtle" slanders the BBC pushed.
If you claim you can beat Daigo at any fighting game and then your niece beats you at every game with a capioera character by mashing the pad then you are Boris Jphnson.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
You sound mildly upset.
I am. fucking May. doesn't mean I can't laugh at the delusion of the left,
Principate
Saint Titanfall
This ignores the effects of the vote itself. All of the Tories future movements which will have far reaching consequences have no mandate. Theresa a may is a dead woman walking and most importantly labour is unified and popular while the Tories are divided.
Brexit is a mess and will deeply change the trajectory of whichever party that implements it. However now the Tories cannot shift the blame of the consequences to the British public. They are in a precarious position that wil define them for a generation.
This election wasn't calls a for shot a and giggles it was to strength their position and mitigate the shit storm to come. It has no magnified the shot storm to come.
If they fuck this up they would have been better off losing this and attacking labour for their failures.
autumnleaf
Member
Nah, you don't get it. If the Tories thought they had anyone that could beat Corbyn they'd have ousted May as leader already and be lining up for another election, instead they know it will just get worse for them. No Tory PM is going to engage so many young voters like Corbyn did, it's not just because of May.
This is true, if you're incredibly short sighted and can't see anything past the end of your nose.
Politics is about narrative and momentum. Guess who has both of those things right now. Honestly this election was probably better in the long run for labour than a win would have been. Tories in bed with the DUP won't be very stable, won't do very well in negotiations, look bad to pretty much everyone, including the Scottish Tories who are the only successful branch this election, and has threatened to rile up SF.
Is creating "an opportunity for Labour to strike" not something more than a moral victory?
Luckily politics doesn't actually work like that either, especially in a parliamentary system. Labour did get something. The Tory's position is weakened both for future elections and in this government.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
There was what, a 42 seat swing? That's not just a win but straight up a beating for the Tories.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
If conservatives think the only problem was May and it had nothing to do with the parts of society they've been ignoring and fucking over for years finally standing up and using their vote then their loss in the future is guaranteed. Keep pushing austerity and cuts, I dare you. And good luck painting yourselves as the safe pair of hands anymore, you've completely blown that narrative.
Of course, they're not as stupid as some of their supporters seem to be so we're going to see them try to take a different approach and try to court the new voters that made a difference.
Of course, they're not as stupid as some of their supporters seem to be so we're going to see them try to take a different approach and try to court the new voters that made a difference.
Just like Rocky did against Apollo Creed in Rocky 1.
Rumblebones
Banned
Are the people denying this is a win for Labour aware that the Conservatives had a significant majority, were 20+ points ahead in the polls, and were widely expected to clear 400 seats due to Labour in-fighting and a mere 6 weeks to campaign? Are they aware Corbyn reaching out to the poor, the disenfranchised, the apathetic and youth all paid off in the end?
Sorry, but if you are aware of all of this and still think this wasn't a significant victory for Labour and a terrible results for the Conservatives, then you are either a Torry in denial or simply ignorant of the political landscape.
Sorry, but if you are aware of all of this and still think this wasn't a significant victory for Labour and a terrible results for the Conservatives, then you are either a Torry in denial or simply ignorant of the political landscape.
This is a great way to explain the situation to people going "but he lost". I'm using this
Corbyn's result is pretty remarkable. He might not have the majority in parliament but he exceeded all odds by some way. He enthusaed all sorts of people to go and vote labour by a campaign that connected with people.
What he achieved in 6 weeks or so with the majority of the media trying to smear him has to be respected.
I honestly think he will win the next general election which will be sooner or later.
Murdoch, Osbourne and co have egg on their face and that's before we get to members of the Tories.
What he achieved in 6 weeks or so with the majority of the media trying to smear him has to be respected.
I honestly think he will win the next general election which will be sooner or later.
Murdoch, Osbourne and co have egg on their face and that's before we get to members of the Tories.
It's not exactly surprising that the centrist left-punchers who pointed to Corbyn as "proof" that leftist candidates were unelectable (and have spent the past few years insisting that they were the wise, pragmatic arbiters of political realism) are now insisting that Labour's successes are in spite, rather than because of Corbyn and his platform, but still... fuck these people
Wafflecakes
Member
While it is a surprise, I don't see it as a win.
The Tories ran a historically bad campaign with a terrible leader and still won a majority against a very well run, positive, and exciting campaign with all the political winds at their back... which doesn't bode well for future elections were the conservatives don't shoot themselves in the foot.
The Tories ran a historically bad campaign with a terrible leader and still won a majority against a very well run, positive, and exciting campaign with all the political winds at their back... which doesn't bode well for future elections were the conservatives don't shoot themselves in the foot.
Basileus777
Member
When you have an entrenched preconceived notion, it's not difficult to find the evidence you want to confirm it. There will always be some excuse.
This is simply factually wrong. Labour did better in large part because they abandoned trying to stop Brexit. Labour's performance was not due to anti-Brexit sentiment. If Corbyn had campaigned on stopping Brexit, May probably would have gotten her landslide.
I've definitely been feeling better about the world in the last month or so.
For a while it was feeling like nationalism and fear were on this unstoppable march to power throughout the world.
Turkey fell victim, but with Trump struggling, Le Penn failing and now May shooting herself in the foot I feel like there is a better chance we can return to some kind of normalcy in the long term, even if it takes a number of years or decades.
Still a lot of damage done and things are still very unstable. But it could be a hell of a lot worse right now.
The worry is that only incompetence has saved the day.
For a while it was feeling like nationalism and fear were on this unstoppable march to power throughout the world.
Turkey fell victim, but with Trump struggling, Le Penn failing and now May shooting herself in the foot I feel like there is a better chance we can return to some kind of normalcy in the long term, even if it takes a number of years or decades.
Still a lot of damage done and things are still very unstable. But it could be a hell of a lot worse right now.
The worry is that only incompetence has saved the day.
This is exactly what frightens them.
Everything I've learned and read indicates this is not true at all.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
This shows how well Corbyn did and how it would have been so impossible to do any better.
Edit: Sorry on mobile can't get image to show properly.
Edit: Sorry on mobile can't get image to show properly.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Winning is winning and you don't win by losing. I'm sick of this lame narrative that Corbyn had a huge success and crippled the Conservative party. Props to Corbyn surging ahead and reinvigorating the left and whatever but it won't let him pass a single leftist bill or guide government policy. There is no such thing as pressure from a minority.
Conservatives are still 100% in charge. They're forming a supply and confidence coalition with the unionists. That means that whatever budget the conservatives come up with, the democratic unionists will have to go along with. Yeah, soooooo crippled. Lol. Back when Cameron had a supply and confidence coalition with the Lib Dems, George Osborne proceeded to tear apart their welfare state with gleeful abandon. Hope everyone liked austerity because whatever recession Brexit will cause will lead to more of that.
Oh, and speaking of the Lib Dems, they have 12 seats. DUP only has 10. Why do you think she formed a coalition with the latter instead of the former, who are way closer politically to her than a terrorist sympathizing party of gay bashers? Because she knows she can do whatever the hell she wants and bully them around, that's why. All they want is for her to send money over to the Ulsters somehow, maybe ignore some organized crime, and stop being so nice to the god-smearing homosexuals.
Yeah, that's the real place where May's government is weakened: she has less control over how homophobic and racist her government is allowed to be. Nice going, Corbyn.
Conservatives are still 100% in charge. They're forming a supply and confidence coalition with the unionists. That means that whatever budget the conservatives come up with, the democratic unionists will have to go along with. Yeah, soooooo crippled. Lol. Back when Cameron had a supply and confidence coalition with the Lib Dems, George Osborne proceeded to tear apart their welfare state with gleeful abandon. Hope everyone liked austerity because whatever recession Brexit will cause will lead to more of that.
Oh, and speaking of the Lib Dems, they have 12 seats. DUP only has 10. Why do you think she formed a coalition with the latter instead of the former, who are way closer politically to her than a terrorist sympathizing party of gay bashers? Because she knows she can do whatever the hell she wants and bully them around, that's why. All they want is for her to send money over to the Ulsters somehow, maybe ignore some organized crime, and stop being so nice to the god-smearing homosexuals.
Yeah, that's the real place where May's government is weakened: she has less control over how homophobic and racist her government is allowed to be. Nice going, Corbyn.
This is like giving yourself a participation ribbon while your rivals easily take first place again. Corbyn will never be PM. Labour won't be in government for at least 5+ years, Brexit will still happen. Yes the election was a repudiation of May and the Tories who noe have a fragile grip on power, but its like saying Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but Trump is still President. The Tories and DUP will still do what the Tories would have done before the election. It will be tougher for them in that Labour has had a resurgence. But the collapse of the Liberal Democrats as well shows that progressiveness isn't really back.
autumnleaf
Member
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Cloog is a traitor ahn if I evah see is egg shaped noggin about me town ill proper bash it right in till the cadbury cream comes out
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's nothing like that. May is not going to be in power for long. The alliance is not long for this world as the cracks are already visible. A poor brexit negotiation will be a Tory death sentence for the next election if not beyond.
You'd have to be actively not paying attention to not notice this. Why do you think the Tory party are in shambles currently and mp's absolutely furious. The labour party are ahead in the polls currently and Corbyn will soon have higher favouribility ratings than may (they're equal currently). If you were a tory party member your exact phrasing would be "this is fine" currently.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
This, like Trump's win*, is the very definition of that term. Unfortunately, it's going​ to take a little longer for the U.S. to realize it.
i'm personally curious who conservatives think they could put at the head of the party that would be more competent and less obviously sociopathic than theresa may. and whoever it is, the tory platform is still the tory platform and people clearly don't like it.
OverBlood 3
Banned
Ah yes, this is what I need.
Edit:
This is what winning feels like
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-in-tears-tory-staffer-10604243
isn't the real reason because lib dem voters remember the last coalition they formed with the tories and would be completely wiped out if they did it again? it seems to me that the DUP are the only option for may and that's a huge problem.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
This shows how well Corbyn did and how it would have been so impossible to do any better.
Edit: Sorry on mobile can't get image to show properly.
Here you go dude. It's an impressive picture for sure.
Enjoy it
Now I feel a bit sorry for May but she only has herself to blame
Blunder of the decade. We finally get brexit and then she fucks it all up for no reason at all.
And_Gignac
Member
I knew centrist scum wouldn't dare to admit the historic political shift that Corbyn pulled.
Coriolanus
Banned
were that the case, Lib Dems wouldve gained quite a goddamn lot more seats than they did.
the backfire effect is indeed a harsh mistress.
yarp. it would be absolute political suicide for the Lib Dems to ally with the tories again, especially with such a fragile government. Simply not an option for them.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I don't live in the UK so I have nothing to worry about but Theresa May is scary. She's a conservative true believer. The conservative party can't go back to political competence because May already purged the Osborne opportunists. And with a smaller majority I think that incentivizes her party to polarize.
That's also true. Nick Clegg lost to a Labour opponent. But I don't think it would have been impossible to form a coalition government with them. It's just that Conservatives would have had to make way more concessions than they would with the unionists. I think my point is just that it's not really a huge problem because the conservatives still own the government for five years and don't have to make many changes to their policies. If we're saying this makes them more vulnerable in 5 years then yes, but they were already vulnerable in 5 years because of Brexit. I just don't think it's as consequential as the media is saying.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Yeah this is why I'm feeling confident that they'll struggle to counter. Boris Johnson or Amber Rudd just aren't going to cut it. Will be interesting to see what they'll try. It's been hilarious to see so many tories angry that young people went out and voted in their best interest. They weren't supposed to do that!
well the last time lib dems tried it i think they basically got nothing out of it so i don't think they'd be very quick to trust the tories, plus their voters would be very much against it. i really think the DUP is their only option, and with such a small majority in that coalition it wouldn't take much at all to really fuck things up for whoever ends up as the conservative PM. there are tories who really dislike the unionists and could easily break the whole thing up.
I also have to laugh when people buy into the Tory lie that Corbyn didn't budget for any of his ideas. Please, read the manifesto. Don't buy into the lie. Hell, it's the Tories who didn't budget for anything in their plan.
Some centrists seem quite pleased to jump into bed with the right wing if it's to attack the left wing on easily verified lies.
Not that I'm surprised but it's incredibly disheartening.
Some centrists seem quite pleased to jump into bed with the right wing if it's to attack the left wing on easily verified lies.
Not that I'm surprised but it's incredibly disheartening.
No, it isn't just a moral victory.
You're being ridiculously reductive. It's a battle won, not the war, doesn't make it less of a win.
Henchmen21
Banned
That's because Centrist's are more right-wing than they are willing to admit
badcrumble
Member
2016 was the high watermark of reaction. Sorry brexiteers/alt-right, you're already on your way out the door.
Both were party political plays based on a breathtakingly cynical premise.
Don't say either was done for the good of the country. You just sound deluded and distended.
Oh, wait a minute . . .
Isaac Otherworld
Member
The driveby mafia press in the U.K. is nuts. I remember seeing a news paper run a story saying "Labor must kill vampire Jezza" with Corbyn dead in a coffin. It's like they're trying to incite violence against him.