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[Earthstrike]

For whatever reason I haven't seen anyone else articulate my take on this yet, which is that these results are evidence of two things:

Corbyn's platform is more popular than people expected
Corbyn's platform still isn't popular enough to achieve sweeping political power

Everyone seems invested in only one of those things being true and the other being outright false, but its vitally important that we understand both

Absolutely. It is important to have accurate and objective data so you can form ideal long run political strategies. I think the only takeaway one can have from these two points, is that liberals should invest political capital in making the youth vote as liberal as possible. People might not like to hear this because it means the next 2-4 elections may be pretty rough. But when the boomers start passing on, and the youth of today start voting, it's going to be pretty brutal from a political point of view.

For one thing, the internet has united the idiocy of the right in a messaging point of view. All of the anglosphere nations' youth are aware of Brexit and the election of Donald Trump. Many remember George W. Most of the world saw Barack Obama as a good leader.

I still hold out hope for the west as the embrace of anti-intellectualism for the right is going to have some serious long run political consequences.

 

[axisofweevils]

For whatever reason I haven't seen anyone else articulate my take on this yet, which is that these results are evidence of two things:

Corbyn's platform is more popular than people expected
Corbyn's platform still isn't popular enough to achieve sweeping political power

Everyone seems invested in only one of those things being true and the other being outright false, but its vitally important that we understand both

I actually think its because he wasn't Theresa May. Its as simple as that. As a pro-European, I'd have happily voted for an Overturn Brexit party that stood any chance of making a major difference in our ridiculous system. None existed.

I have friends who hated Corbyn but voted for him anyway for this reason.

 

[gutter_trash]

nice goal post moving, you don't "win" moral victories, you only win-win when a win is a win.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

For whatever reason I haven't seen anyone else articulate my take on this yet, which is that these results are evidence of two things:

Corbyn's platform is more popular than people expected
Corbyn's platform still isn't popular enough to achieve sweeping political power

Everyone seems invested in only one of those things being true and the other being outright false, but its vitally important that we understand both

Post election now that the illusion of the tories stability has fallen apart the polls are in his favour. If another election was called (which is a real possibility with the situation we have now) he'd have a real shot at it. Tories themselves have said as much.

 

[The Technomancer]

Post election now that the illusion of the tories stability has fallen apart the polls are in his favour. If another election was called (which is a real possibility with the situation we have now) he'd have a real shot at it. Tories themselves have said as much.

Sure I think if there's another election Labour has a really strong shot at it. But "Corbyn's platform is popular enough that Labour has a real shot at winning" and "Corbyn's platform is so good and popular that the people are ready to rise up and unite behind Labour" are two different arguments that have very different strategic implications. I don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking but I really don't want anyone to downplay just how many people are still solidly behind the Tories and hostile to Labour

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Sure I think if there's another election Labour has a really strong shot at it. But "Corbyn's platform is popular enough that Labour has a real shot at winning" and "Corbyn's platform is so good and popular that the people are ready to rise up and unite behind Labour" are two different arguments that have very different strategic implications. I don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking but I really don't want anyone to downplay just how many people are still solidly behind the Tories and hostile to Labour

Yeah they are but the key thing was getting people out to vote that felt like they didn't have a voice before to combat the committed tories. That's the success that needs to be built on rather than trying convert the right wing. We needed a real opposition for so long and now we have one instead of the apathy that was there before. There's still a lot of work to be done but there's a real base to build on.

 

[hodgy100]

Labour have a glimmer of hope now.

Leftist policies can be popular!

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Who can say that another leader running Labour without all the baggage of Corbyn would not have actually won.

It seems to me that Corbyn benefits from the lowered expectations of his performance. Similar to how Trump is credited with pulling off an upset win but any other Republican in his position would have been a favorite against Clinton because they would not have had anywhere near the baggage that he did.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

For whatever reason I haven't seen anyone else articulate my take on this yet, which is that these results are evidence of two things:

Corbyn's platform is more popular than people expected
Corbyn's platform still isn't popular enough to achieve sweeping political power

Everyone seems invested in only one of those things being true and the other being outright false, but its vitally important that we understand both

He's now outpolling the Tories though?

I don't see why people should think this is the ceiling for Labour, this is what he managed to do while the entire party was trying to sabotage him and now they're all kissing his ass because he's proven he's electable. Hasn't there been like over a hundred thousand new Labour member signups in the past couple days?

 

[gutter_trash]

look UK GAF,
this is not a win

Canada's Left wing party won Official Opposition status for the first time in 2011 during the Orange Wave (but it also rewarderd our Conservatives to be promoted from a minority to a majority goverement)

many claimed that it was a new begining for the Left
they were wrong.

our mainstream center/ center-left Liberals won a majority government in 2015 while the Left wing party was relegated back to its habitual place as 2nd opposition.

a win is only a win when it is a win.

moral victories mean nothing

 

[D4Danger]

but he lost

 

[daviyoung]

This is obviously just the first step.

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

Americans, please realise that your all or nothing brand of politics is not representative of the rest of the world. Please realise that nobody is saying ' Corbyn won the general election!'. Nobody.

They are a much stronger party now than they were a week ago. The Tories are now much weaker. This is a Very Good Thing.

 

[Big-E]

look UK GAF,
this is not a win

Canada's Left wing party won Official Opposition status for the first time in 2011 during the Orange Wave (but it also rewarderd our Conservatives to be promoted from a minority to a majority goverement)

many claimed that it was a new begining for the Left
they were wrong.

our mainstream center/ center-left Liberals won a majority government in 2015 while the Left wing party was relegated back to its habitual place as 2nd opposition.

a win is only a win when it is a win.

moral victories mean nothing

Conservatives in England are in a minority. Your hate for the NDP doesn't need to correlate into anything tangential to politics.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

This is obviously just the first step.

But it's not a win rrrrarrrrgh

I think perhaps some people aren't aware of how dire the situation was looking for the left before the election. May was reaching supreme leader status before it.

 

[SamVimes]

Who can say that another leader running Labour without all the baggage of Corbyn would not have actually won.

It seems to me that Corbyn benefits from the lowered expectations of his performance. Similar to how Trump is credited with pulling off an upset win but any other Republican in his position would have been a favorite against Clinton because they would not have had anywhere near the baggage that he did.

You can make up any scenario you want to fit your narrative, congrats?

look UK GAF,
this is not a win

Canada's Left wing party won Official Opposition status for the first time in 2011 during the Orange Wave (but it also rewarderd our Conservatives to be promoted from a minority to a majority goverement)

many claimed that it was a new begining for the Left
they were wrong.

our mainstream center/ center-left Liberals won a majority government in 2015 while the Left wing party was relegated back to its habitual place as 2nd opposition.

a win is only a win when it is a win.

moral victories mean nothing

This is not only a moral victory. This is gonna be an incredibly unstable government which might fall at any moment.
Just a month ago we were sure they'd have an incredibly strong majority that would let them do whatever they want for five years.

 

[Dopus]

look UK GAF,
this is not a win

Canada's Left wing party won Official Opposition status for the first time in 2011 during the Orange Wave (but it also rewarderd our Conservatives to be promoted from a minority to a majority goverement)

many claimed that it was a new begining for the Left
they were wrong.

our mainstream center/ center-left Liberals won a majority government in 2015 while the Left wing party was relegated back to its habitual place as 2nd opposition.

a win is only a win when it is a win.

moral victories mean nothing

You don't know what you're talking about. It's not just a moral victory. This was a pointless snap election that has left the Tories with their tail between their legs for a second time. The "strong and stable government" narative has evaporated for the Conservatives. Labour gained seats. Tories lost seats. The Tories are in a far weaker position, and Labour are much stronger.

It's a win considering the state Labour was in and what had now happened with the Tories.

It's a win because people responded to the manifesto and rallied behind Corbyn. That surge will only continue.

It's a win because of the youth turnout.

It's a win because the Tories failed to get a majority when some projections had them at 380+.

It's a win because 150,000 people have joined Labour since the election.

It's a win because the Tories are now in bed with the DUP.

The public aren't going to be forgiving and frankly, because of this huge miscalculation on Theresa May's part, neither are her fellow party members.

Yes, Labour and Corbyn lost. But to deny what the political landscape now looks like seems to be a little foolish to me.

 

[hodgy100]

Who can say that another leader running Labour without all the baggage of Corbyn would not have actually won.

It seems to me that Corbyn benefits from the lowered expectations of his performance. Similar to how Trump is credited with pulling off an upset win but any other Republican in his position would have been a favorite against Clinton because they would not have had anywhere near the baggage that he did.

Who can say if the labour party actually stood behind their leader for the last 2 years they might have actually won.

Labour's problems have been left centre blairites not realising that people want a truly left party. the election result, despite the party trying to oust corbyn, despite them also repeatedly saying "he can't lead", despite the press shitting all over him. Because against all odds he GAINED seats over Miliband. This event will force them to get in line. Labour is now the strongest it has been since Blair. This election has been a turning point for the party.

do you all have blinders on about what this election actually means for the UK? I thought leftist politics were dead in the UK 6 weeks ago. I thought hte press and the party had succeeded in sabotaging Corbyn to the best of their ability so they could get rid of him. All this has changed now!

Labour started off at like 25% in the polls, they are now (post election) at 45%.

Moreover the Conservatives are now in a mess. 2/3rds of the party want to get rid of May already but they can't because that would look bad. They are trying to get into bed with the DUP to wrestle onto what little power they can have, which will not go down well with the public (we are at least fairly socially progressive here) and that probably won't even work, the scottish tories are talking about rebelling, more centralist tories will probably also rebelled against the far right tories. THe tories have a weaker negotiating stance which might mean for a brexit deal that keeps some of the rights we have because they won't get away with being as hard headed as they have been.

 

[Principate]

nice goal post moving, you don't "win" moral victories, you only win-win when a win is a win.

Labour are ahead in polls (started 20 points below), He's equal to May in preference for PM despite being 20% lower 2 months ago, the Tories are in shambles and Labour have unified. You do in fact win moral victories there's no point celebrating a short term victory for a long term loss.

 

[gutter_trash]

Labour are ahead in polls (started 20 points below), He's equal to May in preference for PM despite being 20% lower 2 months ago, the Tories are in shambles and Labour have unified. You do in fact win moral victories there's no point celebrating a short term victory for a long term loss.

in a hung parliament setting, this is an opportunity for Labour to strike.

an opportunity that is not to be fudged, they must develop a strategy to battle in key ridings to flip 'em

Labour must remain on "campaign mode" during this weak government period.

 

[Android18a]

I think one big positive is that it's a clear sign to young people that voting does matter, and it can make a difference. There's no doubt that the huge youth turnout had a massive impact upon this election. And if that encourages the new generation of young adults to take an interest in politics, be that staying on the left or making the decision to support a different type of government, it's a good thing.

It was encouraging to see the social media push amongst youngsters encouraging each other to take part in this election.

Also, it's a win for me because I bet a quid on Labour's percentage and won £11 back. Wishing I'd have put a tenner or more on it now! lol

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Labour are ahead in polls (started 20 points below), He's equal to May in preference for PM despite being 20% lower 2 months ago, the Tories are in shambles and Labour have unified. You do in fact win moral victories there's no point celebrating a short term victory for a long term loss.

This says a lot more about May than you think. What if they replace her?

 

[hodgy100]

This says a lot more about May than you think. What if they replace her?

Then the conservatives look like an even less stable government. Replacing the head won't get rid of the underlying problems and it won't change their public perception overnight.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

I went from thinking Corbyn is a bit of a stupid commie git before the election campaign, to being right on board the Jezza train, I think he's great, and I like whats he saying. The conservatives have made themselves weaker, and look stupid. No way this current parliament lasts 5 years.

 

[Jezbollah]

He won the battle, but May lost the war.

it was a terrible campaign by the Tories, a shit manifesto and an awful capitulation by Theresa May.

A competent leader, who better appeals to centrist voters (like me) would have seen majority Labour victory.

Corbyn's part, to his credit, was to engage with younger voters and get their vote. Remain voters, who defected to Labour, did so at the prospect of a hard Brexit.

There were a number of factors why the Conservatives find themselves with 318 seats, but Jeremy Corbyn is only part of the reason.

 

[Stead Fast]

in a hung parliament setting, this is an opportunity for Labour to strike.

an opportunity that is not to be fudged, they must develop a strategy to battle in key ridings to flip 'em

Labour must remain on "campaign mode" during this weak government period.

On this I wholeheartedly agree. This is a blow, but unless pressure is never eased by Labour, it will amount to little.

Fortunately, the 150,000 Labour party membership increase since this election is a good indication those who were inspired to vote here, or were motivated to vote AFTER polls showed Labour can challenge the Tories is heartening. If that membership increase were to end NOW (an eventuality I don't think will occur, it will continue to increase for weeks at least), Labour grassroots is now heavier armed than we've been for decades, people smell blood in a hung parliament so genuine excitement at a second election is already inspiring people to keep on the streets, knocking on doors, and as long as the PLP do not try and oust him, Corbyn might have a strong party for the first time in his leadership.

If he got 260+ now, without anything I mentioned above, him armed as he is, against an even weaker Tory government is a really strong challenge.

But again, only for as long as momentum keeps up.

 

[harriet the spy]

"But he lost"

In this case though both boxers put up a good fight. I'm curious as to the future of labour and wish to see Corbyn successful - but it still feels to me that he lost to an incredibly uncharismatic politician that made the campaign around her unlikable self, fucked up interviews and has to deal with one of the most controversial issues in UK politics.
I'm still in the camp that it's a bit embarrassing to celebrate a defeat.

I went from thinking Corbyn is a bit of a stupid commie git before the election campaign, to being right on board the Jezza train, I think he's great, and I like whats he saying. The conservatives have made themselves weaker, and look stupid. No way this current parliament lasts 5 years.

What could make the govt last less than 5? Barring May holding another anticipated election?

 

[The Technomancer]

In this case though both boxers put up a good fight. I'm curious as to the future of labour and wish to see Corbyn successful - but it still feels to me that he lost to an incredibly uncharismatic politician that made the campaign around her unlikable self, fucked up interviews and has to deal with one of the most controversial issues in UK politics.
I'm still in the camp that it's a bit embarrassing to celebrate a defeat.

I'm fine with the celebration honestly. Tories are on thin ice and significantly decreased in power, that's a victory in several tangible ways.

 

[gutter_trash]

Then the conservatives look like an even less stable government. Replacing the head won't get rid of the underlying problems and it won't change their public perception overnight.

Tories are fucked beyound fucked, +the Brexit negotiations start next week and they are total fucked

Junker will slap the UK hard

sadly, it's young Britons are will get punished the most, freedom of movement in the EU? single market? freedom of work?

Brexit really fucked over ther youth so hard

 

[Principate]

This says a lot more about May than you think. What if they replace her?

With who? They will still be an unelected PM without a mandate, the conservative party don't have a mandate and if they fuck up brexit the public won't forget about it for a very long time.All while having a "coalition of chaos" with the DUP. She's screwed them.

 

[harriet the spy]

I'm fine with the celebration honestly. Tories are on thin ice and significantly decreased in power, that's a victory in several tangible ways.

I don't really understand UK politics that well but things feel ironically worse now. A weak govt will do a terrible job negotiating brexit and with the DUP loons in gov :/

 

[Jezbollah]

I don't really understand UK politics that well but things feel ironically worse now. A weak govt will do a terrible job negotiating brexit and with the DUP loons in gov :/

A weak Government actually has to consider their policies more - in order to pass them in votes. In a weird way it's more democratic in terms of politicians working together on a cross party basis than it would be if you had a fat majority and less reasons to consider other parties (or your own rebellious backbenchers) viewpoints.

 

[Giant Panda]

Dark times for UK ahead though. May and Corbyn are both shit. Liberal Democrats look to be the only reasonable option to avoid stood populist policies.

 

[openrob]

but he lost

Imagine Chelsea spending 100s of Millions of pounds buying new players and bragging that they would demolish everyone and win the cup.

They decide to play a friendly to give themselves a confidence boost - only to draw against the Grimsby Town under 21's.

 

[Principate]

Dark times for UK ahead though. May and Corbyn are both shit. Liberal Democrats look to be the only reasonable option to avoid stood populist policies.

Polulist policies have been the lib dems bread and butter for decades now.

 

[Stead Fast]

Dark times for UK ahead though. May and Corbyn are both shit. Liberal Democrats look to be the only reasonable option to avoid stood populist policies.

As opposed to legalising cannabis to try and get back more of the young vote?

 

[i_am_ben]

Imagine Chelsea spending 100s of Millions of pounds buying new players and bragging that they would demolish everyone and win the cup.

They decide to play a friendly to give themselves a confidence boost - only to draw against the Grimsby Town under 21's.

I can't wait until Chelsea starts passing legislation, leading Brexit negotiations and handing down the yearly budget....

 

[hodgy100]

A weak Government actually has to consider their policies more - in order to pass them in votes. In a weird way it's more democratic in terms of politicians working together on a cross party basis than it would be if you had a fat majority and less reasons to consider other parties (or your own rebellious backbenchers) viewpoints.

which is exactly how i want brexit to be executed. It's such a massive decision that affects everyone that the best solution is one that takes as many people as possible into account. and like you said. A minority government forces them to reach across the aisle.

 

[Ekai]

I remember how every post about Corbyn that wasn't an outright insult practically got dogpiled on gaf for what felt like a couple of years. I envy Labour voters as someone who voted for Bernie in the US democratic primary.

The amount of centrists, US and UK, who said appealing to the youth/left wing was a bad idea was aggravating to no end.

 

[gutter_trash]

Dark times for UK ahead though. May and Corbyn are both shit. Liberal Democrats look to be the only reasonable option to avoid stood populist policies.

true, regardless of Tories or Labour. The long term damage of Brexit will be hardest felt on the youth.

Nothing Labour can do now can stop Brexit from happening.

Hell, Corbyn wants Brexit to happen

 

[Giant Panda]

As opposed to legalising cannabis to try and get back more of the young vote?

Legalization is the academic consensus though, so in my opinion that's not populist.

 

[Opto]

the snap election is supposed to benefit the party in power, right? knocking out a majority hold in such an uphill battle is significant

 

[harriet the spy]

the snap election is supposed to benefit the party in power, right? knocking out a majority hold in such an uphill battle is significant

Yea but they often seem to backfire. Probably voters see it as a sign of arrogance ?

 

[MCN]

true, regardless of Tories or Labour. The long term damage of Brexit will be hardest felt on the youth.

Nothing Labour can do now can stop Brexit from happening.

Hell, Corbyn wants Brexit to happen

The key aim now is to have Brexit happen, but try not to make a complete fucking disaster of it.

 

[autumnleaf]

It is definitely not a moral victory, it's a stepping stone. This was a snap election deliberately picked when Labour were at their lowest to wipe them out, turning it around into a majority was practically impossible so it's not a fair metric to judge. There is a huge swing in votes to them, more seats and a weaker Government, they are now in a perfect position to pick up the pieces after the Tories negotiate us a terrible Brexit deal.

 

[VegiHam]

I can't wait until Chelsea starts passing legislation, leading Brexit negotiations and handing down the yearly budget....

Damn man can you not just hold the negativity for like a week? We were all braced for a landslide give us a minute to chill and enjoy May being sad

 

[Talka]

If you challenge a person to a game of poker because you're apparently amazing at poker and heard that the other guy sucks, then end up losing money while the other guy ends up making money off of you, it kind of doesn't matter that you have more chips at the end. You used to have even more chips than that, and lost them yo someone who apparently can't even play poker.

Except governance isn't like poker. If I end a night of poker with just barely more money than some other guy, I don't get to rule that guy's country for five years.

It's more like a poker tournament where a talented player only barely beat a less talented player. Nice showing by the underdog! You still lost though, and you get nothing.

 

[gutter_trash]

The key aim now is to have Brexit happen, but try not to make a complete fucking disaster of it.

Morgan Freeman "good luck"

 

[autumnleaf]

Nice showing by the underdog! You still lost though, and you get nothing.

Labour won seats though so it is far more than nothing. And the Tories fell into a minority Government. It isnt as simple as who won or lost. There is a reason May was in tears and looks a broken woman while Corbyn is strutting around.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality.

Damn you for reminding me that game existed at some point.

Now I can't get it out of my head.

And the worst part is that I don't think anyone on this board knows what it is from.