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Video game piracy in broad daylight - how is this legal?

border

Member
You guys have seen those All-In-One game emulation devices, right? They're generally shaped like N64 controllers, except that they have an AV cord that plugs directly into a television set. They are loaded up with about 100-500 ROMs, so you just plug it into your television set and you can play hundreds NES games for just the price of the device (something like twenty or thirty bucks I think). The games available are not old hackjobs, but primo stuff from major third parties. The fact that Nintendo-developed games are included should more or less tell you that there has been NO licensing agreement made between the software developers and the makers of these products. Nintendo would not give their old games to anyone, particularly when there are goofballs paying $20 a pop for them on GBA.

So anyhow, I used to figure that these emulation devices were just shady semi-legal Hong Kong imports because they were relegated to the underworld of flea markets and eBay auctions. But now I see them being sold at kiosks in MALLS! These guys are not some hard-to-catch, fly-by-night operation like a Malaysia eBay dealer or flea market stand. They sit at the same stand in the mall, day after day, reaping profits off of companies that are still alive and kicking.

The ESA/IDSA won't shut up about how much the industry is losing to piracy, but they seem pretty content to let pirates operate with impunity. This is despite the fact that some of their biggest constituents are losing money. Malls allow them to operate even though bigger and more important tenants (EB, Gamestop, KBToys) are losing money to them.

So what's the deal? Is it just a case of massive apathy on the part of the supposed watchdogs? Or have pirates found some kind of bizarre loophole that allows them to actually sell other people's games?

note: I would love to hear DJ Demon J's thoughts on this situation (even if he's not allowed to speak officially for his employers, his experiences should give him an interesting perspective). If the mods won't unban him (the original ban was over hokey stuff), can someone please send me his contact information?
 

brandonnn

BEAUTY&SEXY
I seem to recall this coming up here recently and someone saying that the kiosks can get shut down and removed from the mall if someone complains. My guess is just ignorance over loopholes.
 
I've noticed this. They sell them in a couple of different stores at a local mall, and a different famiclone has been sold through QVC. Nobody seems to be aware of the fact that they involve mass piracy, and I'm sure people confuse their legitimacy with that of the official "TV games" units. It's really pretty ridiculous. With as often as Nintendo still shuts down sites that post ROMs for their systems, why haven't they hit these just as hard?
 
I was walking through a mall in Tampa with Agent Dormer one day and we saw a kiosk selling one of these sets. Now I'm not talking about an officially licensed TV Games thing like somethign from Jaxx USA or whatever.

This was basically an N64 like controller (they had Genesis like ones too) with a circuit board crammed inside. The casing was incredibly shoddy. I pikced it up and hit the reset button. Bam, a list of seriously like 50 NES games pops up. I played Contra. It was a perfect rom image. Nothing about Konami or Nintendo or Sega or anyone on the product's box of course. Cost something like $30.

Seriously, how come nobody is fighting these guys? It seems pretty prevelant to me. This was being sold in a MAJOR mall in Tampa.
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
I was in Atlanta a few weeks ago and I saw those devices in kiosks at the mall. I was all like WTF?!?
 
brandonnn said:
I seem to recall this coming up here recently and someone saying that the kiosks can get shut down and removed from the mall if someone complains. My guess is just ignorance over loopholes.
Who would one complain to about this? Mall management, or NoA?
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
jiji said:
Who would one complain to about this? Mall management, or NoA?


NOA they have a division around just for piracy reports. You can find the info on their webpage.
 

Mashing

Member
I know exactly what you mean..... Here in Houston, I've seen them in every single mall I've been to (Deerbrook, San Jacinto, Baybrook, etc...) They look like cheaply made devices so I haven't bothered to play with them at all. It doesn't bother me that they are there though.
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
Nintendo is actually pretty active about this kind of thing. Years ago I emailed them to tell them that the Babbages I worked for was selling bootleg Pokemon merchandise (yes, we were selling it, but I was also pissed at my assistant manager for something or another) and after about a week or two, we didn't sell it anymore.
 

Teddman

Member
I've seen them, they look cheap so I wasn't interested. The salesman actually approached me and pitched the product too.

I can't see getting worked up about it though. Let the parties involved fight their own battles... I'm sure Nintendo is aware by now and hasn't made it a high priority.

Anyway, as if the people buying these knockoffs would really be buying NEW N64/NES/SNES units and cartridges, which is the only way that Nintendo themselves are losing any profits on these devices (which will probably fall apart within a month).
 

Alcibiades

Member
I've seen these for sale at both the mall in my hometown and college town, very obvious and stuff, there was even one with a light-gun thing for duck-hunt...

WTF?!

I actually plan to call the mall hopefully this afternoon and pretend to be part of some organization and ask stuff like "Does management approve of the selling of unlicensed/copyright-infringing products?" or something like that.
 

border

Member
Teddman said:
I can't see getting worked up about it though. Let the parties involved fight their own battles... I'm sure Nintendo is aware by now and hasn't made it a high priority.
I wouldn't say I'm totally "worked up" about it, but I am mostly just curious about why these vendors can so blatantly flout the law. It also seems a bit hypocritical of the ESA to whine and cry and use all those ludicrously inflated "150 TRILLION LOST TO PIRACY!" dollar figures.....all the while there is this easily solved piracy problem that they see fit to ignore. That almost annoys me more than the fact that there are guys selling pirated games.

Nintendo gets hurt because they are currently trying to market NES titles on the GBA, and these devices are in pretty direct competition. The game stores get hurt because they are trying to sell the GBA games as well as used NES carts. In a case like this that is so clearly open-and-shut, I don't see why they aren't pushing for prosecution.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
border said:
note: I would love to hear DJ Demon J's thoughts on this situation (even if he's not allowed to speak officially for his employers, his experiences should give him an interesting perspective). If the mods won't unban him (the original ban was over hokey stuff), can someone please send me his contact information?


Doth Togo works with him I believe... that banning incident was incredibly stupid.
 
Teddman said:
Anyway, as if the people buying these knockoffs would really be buying NEW N64/NES/SNES units and cartridges, which is the only way that Nintendo themselves are losing any profits on these devices (which will probably fall apart within a month).
Nintendo's entire "classics" line-up for their GBA beg to differ. Same can be said for the N64 games that will inevitably be on the Nintendo DS.
 

lexbubble

Member
brandonnn said:
I seem to recall this coming up here recently and someone saying that the kiosks can get shut down and removed from the mall if someone complains. My guess is just ignorance over loopholes.


Ding Ding Ding


I think that alot of people probs see that its in a 'store' and they think its legal and have no reason to question it as most of the mass consumer doesn't pay attention to that much detail
 

Teddman

Member
Mr_Furious said:
Nintendo's entire "classics" line-up for their GBA beg to differ. Same can be said for the N64 games that will inevitably be on the Nintendo DS.
Not the same thing. Those are portable products, this is a ROM player that can only be played through a TV. Buying one doesn't offer all the benefits of the other. If Nintendo tried releasing a $20 per game "classics" lineup for GameCube, sales would be abysmal. Get the difference?

You're talking about people willing to pay $20 for a single 20 year old game on GBA, vs. people who are buying knockoff devices with hundreds of low-quality roms for $30. It's not the same demographic. The knockoff buyers are very unlikely to be classics buyers.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Teddman said:
You're talking about people willing to pay $20 for a single 20 year old game on GBA, vs. people who are buying knockoff devices with hundreds of low-quality roms for $30. It's not the same demographic. The knockoff buyers are very unlikely to be classics buyers.

I'd argue that people willing to actually pay money for roms are the same willing to pay money for a legit rerelease... but it's a dumb debate since copyrights are being violated and that's all that matters.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
the people that work there claim its all "Abandonware" But its kinda funny cause not only do they just put roms in the th ing they also put hacked roms (only one level games and such).

The funniest part however is "the original tekken" Which is just karateka. and the "original king of fighters" which is just yie ar kung fu.
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
Lost Weekend said:
We're not snitches, we're ninjas, dammit!

not really. i actually cant believe this thread. i mean i'm not for piracy for anything but a horde planning on calling malls and emailing NOA and all kinds of other stuff is kinda nerd like IMO. nintendo isn't gonna give you a cookie for your efforts and surely they already know about this stuff. you really arent hurting or helping anyone at all.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
BeOnEdge said:
not really. i actually cant believe this thread. i mean i'm not for piracy for anything but a horde planning on calling malls and emailing NOA and all kinds of other stuff is kinda nerd like IMO. nintendo isn't gonna give you a cookie for your efforts and surely they already know about this stuff. you really arent hurting or helping anyone at all.

They might know about it, but not all locations. So I don't see how this isn't helping.

I really can't believe our society has turned to this tripe.
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
its not helping because they arent losing anything. what stores do you know that sell brand new nes games? why not shut down used game shops too. or call the police on half the people on this mssg board for smoking pot. :eek:
 

Teddman

Member
levious said:
I'd argue that people willing to actually pay money for roms are the same willing to pay money for a legit rerelease...
Not by and large. The main attraction of this thing is that it's only $30, has a bunch of games, and is complete with a playback device. It's CHEAP and is perceived as a great value. If the pirates charged $20 and it only had one game that you had to buy a $80 player to use, then maybe you'd have an accurate comparison with Nintendo's Classics line on GBA.

I'm not defending the pirates, but the reasons I've cited could explain why Nintendo hasn't really gone after them yet. These things have been on the market for at least six months in Southern California, there's no way NOA doesn't know about them by now.
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
Eh, it's something to do :)


(That, and I don't want to see the good old US of A turn into a little China, piracy wise, and this would be the first step of that)
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
"they're not losing anything" is a pretty lame argument. They pay good money for copyrights, and I wish I understood it better, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to prove loss to enforce your copyright, uh, rights.
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
Teddman said:
Not by and large. The main attraction of this thing is that it's only $30, has a bunch of games, and is complete with a playback device. It's CHEAP and is perceived as a great value. If the pirates charged $20 and it only had one game that you had to buy a $80 player to use, then maybe you'd have an accurate comparison with Nintendo's Classics line on GBA.

I'm not defending the pirates, but the reasons I've cited could explain why Nintendo hasn't really gone after them yet. These things have been on the market for at least six months in Southern California, there's no way NOA doesn't know about them by now.

better yet blame nintendo for not making a device like this themselves but instead ripping people off by charging $20 for 20 year old games.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
BeOnEdge said:
its not helping because they arent losing anything. what stores do you know that sell brand new nes games? why not shut down used game shops too. or call the police on half the people on this mssg board for smoking pot. :eek:

Piracy is still illegal. That's why.
Used games are a different story.
And I wouldn't particularly mind the pot side but that's not the situation we're talking about here.
The general apathy of our culture just irks me.
 

border

Member
Teddman said:
Buying one doesn't offer all the benefits of the other.
Except that you can't prove that portability is the main selling feature for the GBA Classics line.....particularly with the advent of the GBA Player. In fact, they're mostly aimed at gamers in their twenties who are more likely to remember the old games and less likely to be involved in the portable scene. There is obviously some overlap in audience between the two products and I'm sure some people that will sacrifice portability for hundreds of virtually free games.
a horde planning on calling malls and emailing NOA and all kinds of other stuff is kinda nerd like IMO
I'm not planning on calling anyone, but this is pretty funny to hear coming from the guy that has called multiple videogame stores on the day a new title is released to see how his favorite game is selling.....
 

Teddman

Member
Some of you guys remind me of the man with the bullhorn who "unofficially works for Wendy's" in those commercials. LOL
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
BeOnEdge said:
smoking weed is illegal too. so is underage drinking. call the cops.

Some noise complaints have caused some neighbors to get busted on these accounts.
So what exactly is your point?
 

Ristamar

Member
BeOnEdge said:
its not helping because they arent losing anything. what stores do you know that sell brand new nes games? why not shut down used game shops too. or call the police on half the people on this mssg board for smoking pot. :eek:

Even if you take that stance, if any of these games ever see GBA releases or show up in "classic" or "arcade" collections, your argument falls to pieces. I'm sure a percentage of the games in these controllers fit that bill, as Yie Ar Kung Fu is in a current gen collection, AFAIK.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
RevenantKioku said:
Some noise complaints have caused some neighbors to get busted on these accounts.
So what exactly is your point?


i think his point is that doing illegal stuff is okay until you get caught.
 
BeOnEdge said:
its not helping because they arent losing anything. what stores do you know that sell brand new nes games? why not shut down used game shops too. or call the police on half the people on this mssg board for smoking pot. :eek:
Try telling that to Nintendo, Activision, Atari, Konami, Capcom, Namco, Intellevision and the countless other companies trying to sell their classic series.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
sp0rsk said:
i think his point is that doing illegal stuff is okay until you get caught.

Awesome, I'm gonna go snort some crack and rape a midget.
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
Actually this thread is making me want to be a bit more active in the anti piracy scene (if only to counteract those who are apathetic)

I have an idea...
 

border

Member
Capcom is trying to sell MegaMan Anniversary Collection right now, and I'm sure it's not really helpful to them that like 6 of the games from that collection are being sold on the multi-game emulators.
 
4 of my local malls are currently selling these products and I have already informed Nintendo. It seems out local Nintendo rep is blind to these events. She's an old lady who just recently got the job and I haven't seen any of these shops closed down since she's been put on.
 
It's like you've all turned into Goodcow Jrs.

I certainly hope this does put an end to all the rampant piracy that is destroying the youth of America!

Oh and after you're done calling the Police Department & NOA on these evil kiosk owners, make sure to let the Feds, et al., about something called "IRC" on the, uh, 'intarweb' or something like that. Supposedly *whispers* there's a lot of pirated stuff there, as well!

Go get 'em boys!
 
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