TheTylerRob
Member
Teachers are often cruel, but we really don't know what happened here and there are solutions besides firing.
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Video shows teacher taking mic from boy with Autism at school play
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Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Did I say that?
There are degrees of punishment that are appropriate for a range of infractions in between hitting a kid and pulling a microphone from a stand in front of them. I explained the level of punishment I thought was fit for this.
Don't put words in my mouth.
Skellig Gra
Member
I'm not really sure what to make of it based on the video. Certainly the kid was upset and the teacher could have been more lenient. I'm not sure she deserves being fired for this though.
Messofanego
Banned
She didn't get any stern talking to. Her superiors defended her action. Why did you bring up hitting kids?
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Then I disagree with what they did. Clearly.
Because you're saying she should be fired.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I wouldn't say that. I would say that some actions require context and some don't. If she hit the kid, there is no reasonable reason for that. I can't see her maliciously doing anything in the video. Maybe she did, but I don't think the video clearly shows that. What they're saying about the program being over makes sense given the line from the kid in front of him. If there was an incident of him already being on the mic several times unplanned earlier or a history of swearing, I could see why a teacher would go for the mic. But even putting that idea aside, I don't even know if she intentionally took the mic from him. It seems like an odd situation to get worked up about to the point of calling for her firing, even if we only look at the video.
I don't know that there's a nice way of keeping the kid away from the mic given the circumstances.
Some people are saying the teacher would know the kid best and she was trying to prevent something bad from happening... if she expected this sort of thing to happen, she should have given the kid something else to do in the presentation that didn't involve the microphone, or talked with his parents about it ahead of time so they could help prepare him, or let them know that he hasn't been doing well with certain areas lately and isn't likely to behave in front of the crowd. (But then, like someone said, it's just a school play for six year olds! Who cares if he messes up?)
Letting him line up and taking it away from right under his nose is just setting him up to be upset. Hell, if someone did that to me, now, I'd be visibly upset about the rude person.
Letting him line up and taking it away from right under his nose is just setting him up to be upset. Hell, if someone did that to me, now, I'd be visibly upset about the rude person.
As the father of a 6 year old boy with high functioning autism I am not surprised by this. I watched my son's field day with the rest of the student body last year. Children with disabilities are an after thought. They had my son practice for a month with one specific class. The day of field day they move him to another line just so they could even things out which distressed my son because he was no longer with the "team" he'd been practicing with which led to a meltdown. Of course some jackass parent in front of me started laughing and said, "Glad he's not my son." It also seems like children with disabilities don't get to participate in things that "normal" kids do. We have friends with kids in the same grade and they tell us about things like holiday parties and fun activities that my son never gets to participate in because he's "special". It really upsets my wife and it can definitely be trying at times.
I am not shocked by this at all. I imagine this happens more often than not.
I am not shocked by this at all. I imagine this happens more often than not.
Because he feels that this level of vitriol is something akin to the level of vitriol you'd see if she hit the kid.
Stop reading so much into more casual posts, it'll make your life better. Ray isn't a lawyer or a teacher, he doesn't have a professional opinion to give on this matter.
I don't see her or the school apologizing in the article. They didn't even deem the subject worthy of a "sorry if you got offended" type of message.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Oh look it's 9/10 teachers from my elementary school experience.
Do you know that she was allowed after the incident blew up? Given that the county superintendent spoke on her behalf to the media hints that her union and bosses may have told her not to respond. I'm going to err on the side of the teacher not having a grudge against a little kid and saying sorry the first chance she gets to his face (not to newspapers where we can all read it and feel better).
Sectorseven
Member
It's not that simple. Had this one girl in the orchestra who didn't get a solo and was hell bent on taking a bow anyway. Told her a hundred times she wasn't allowed to do that and she would always nod in acknowledgement. On concert night she had this look on her face like she was going to do it anyway, and sure enough she did. Punishing her would only lead to a meltdown that would be painful af to listen to.
Autistic nephew here. Non verbal but he's showing signs that he is indeed learning the language at least. Had a case one day where I had to take him to school because my sister was running late for an appointment and she needed a favor and it was picture day and I audibly heard his teacher say "shit" under her breath when she saw him. I observed her for a bit and I could cut the disdain with a knife.
And then I imagine how she is when other adults aren't watching and I get chills down my spine.
Fuck people like that and fuck her (in the video). I wouldn't want him around someone like that. Autistic people are still people and they still are aware of how people treat them and damn well fucking respond to people who don't treat em right. He just wanted to do what the other students were doing and she robbed him of this. And for what. What was gained here.
And then I imagine how she is when other adults aren't watching and I get chills down my spine.
Fuck people like that and fuck her (in the video). I wouldn't want him around someone like that. Autistic people are still people and they still are aware of how people treat them and damn well fucking respond to people who don't treat em right. He just wanted to do what the other students were doing and she robbed him of this. And for what. What was gained here.
Your first sentence is trash.
DragonSworne
Banned
Was the teacher laying on the ground? It looks like she was hoisting herself up from the floor from a prone position.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Have to say I agree with you. Judging by the posts I read before watching it I was expecting her to grab it out of his hands and then put her hand on his face and mush him back. Maybe even spit on him.
But the video was pretty tame, like you said it looked like her head was down and once everybody started laughing and clapping she might not have had any idea.
I'm usually willing to give people the benefit of the doubt though and I'm kind of in disbelief people would want her to lose her job over this. If you put your hands on the kid then yeah, you've gotta go. If you take a mic off a mic stand when a kid is about to talk, whether it's on purpose or not, then you should give a legit apology to the kid and his parents.
Depending on the age of the kids, teachers often sit right in front to offer support during performances.
Firing the teacher is going way overboard based on the video.
1) Why was the kid in line? Was he supposed to be? Did he sneak up there?
2) It seems like the second kid was supposed to be the last one
3) We don't know anything about the teacher/student relationship or how this student usually behaves, regardless of his autism. Maybe the teacher was concerned the student was going to say something inappropriate (he is freaking 6 though... highly unlikely). But if that is the case, the teacher could have simply asked the student what he was going to say and then giving him the mic after that
4) Based on the video and the statement issued by the school, it is clear that the teacher knew the student was there and she simply ignored him, which is incredibly mean. Notice how the statement simply says that the student wasn't supposed to say anything, and they didn't say that the teacher didn't see him.
5) We don't know if this is simply an isolated incident, or not. So, asking for the teacher to be fired is uncalled for. However, it was mean spirited to leave a kid crying up there without even acknowledging him. I think a meeting between the parents, the teacher and principal is good enough.
1) Why was the kid in line? Was he supposed to be? Did he sneak up there?
2) It seems like the second kid was supposed to be the last one
3) We don't know anything about the teacher/student relationship or how this student usually behaves, regardless of his autism. Maybe the teacher was concerned the student was going to say something inappropriate (he is freaking 6 though... highly unlikely). But if that is the case, the teacher could have simply asked the student what he was going to say and then giving him the mic after that
4) Based on the video and the statement issued by the school, it is clear that the teacher knew the student was there and she simply ignored him, which is incredibly mean. Notice how the statement simply says that the student wasn't supposed to say anything, and they didn't say that the teacher didn't see him.
5) We don't know if this is simply an isolated incident, or not. So, asking for the teacher to be fired is uncalled for. However, it was mean spirited to leave a kid crying up there without even acknowledging him. I think a meeting between the parents, the teacher and principal is good enough.
In the superintendent's statement, it's mentioned that the kid was not supposed to be up there. This matches with the two lines prior to the mic-snatch being "Happy Thanksgiving" and "Thank you for coming"
Not sure if she needs to be fired over this through, but I hope she later apologized.I agree
I think we can conclude that the teacher could have handled it better and should have at least acknowledged the student.
I have a feeling that the student went up there because he probably didn't have any lines in the play (besides maybe making turkey sounds?) and he wanted to say something to compensate for that.
Netherscourge
Banned
Then you clearly need to work harder on your understanding of autistic kids. Because this is not true.
If anything, ripping the mic out of the kid's hand like that would trigger a meltdown. In this case, the kid broke down into tears. So, they lucked out. It could have been a lot worse depending on the kid and the level of severity involved.
Welp.
Sectorseven
Member
It's very often true, depending on the child's severity. A lot of them, when they get an idea planted in their head, will go through with it no matter how clearly you make it known that it's inappropriate. Sometimes it's easier to let them do it, suffer through the cringe worthy awkwardness and let the parents deal with the meltdown at home, but it depends. Who knows, maybe this kid wanted to shout out some racial slurs because he thought it was "funny."
Two of my nephews are autistic. A lot of teachers are old school and refuse to believe it exists and just label them as 'naughty'
Heartbreaking really as they're both smart as anything given the chance. The 9 year old just kicked my ass at a board game he'd never played before only last week, and was reading/doing maths at 2. But the schools just label them problem children.
Heartbreaking really as they're both smart as anything given the chance. The 9 year old just kicked my ass at a board game he'd never played before only last week, and was reading/doing maths at 2. But the schools just label them problem children.
Note: I am a behavior specialist and have over a decade of experience in the field of autism and behavior.
Watching the video I'm not 100% sure what to think. The gut reaction to the public will be that it looks cruel or the teacher is being an asshole, but I'd love to have some background information.
Let's break down some possibilities...
1.) Worst case scenario: She's an awful woman who just wants to see this kid cry and is tired of him.
2.) This child wasn't supposed to be on stage and when he gains access to the microphone it might be extremely difficult to get it back. He may not immediately respond to verbal demands to come down from the stage and the microphone was taken instead.
3.) The teacher wanted to quickly wrap up the program and instinctively grabbed the mic not thinking the child would react like that.
So now you're saying, but Sean, can't he just have some time on the mic!?
Well of course. Client's rights always come first, especially when we discuss therapeutic solutions. So that's why I'd like to know the full story here.
If the child loves being on the mic and wasn't given a speaking part? That's inexcusable.
If the child was given a part and then eloped from the group to go back on stage and has difficult giving up the mic, what the teacher did seems more acceptable.
It's not always such a black and white situation, and I agree, if this was part of a plan the parents should have been informed or a compromise could have been made (maybe he says the last line?). It's hard to say without knowing the full situation. But problem behaviors are complex and it's easy to just criticize the teacher from a short video.
Oh and firing her? Some of you are going WAY overboard. Educate others.
Watching the video I'm not 100% sure what to think. The gut reaction to the public will be that it looks cruel or the teacher is being an asshole, but I'd love to have some background information.
Let's break down some possibilities...
1.) Worst case scenario: She's an awful woman who just wants to see this kid cry and is tired of him.
2.) This child wasn't supposed to be on stage and when he gains access to the microphone it might be extremely difficult to get it back. He may not immediately respond to verbal demands to come down from the stage and the microphone was taken instead.
3.) The teacher wanted to quickly wrap up the program and instinctively grabbed the mic not thinking the child would react like that.
So now you're saying, but Sean, can't he just have some time on the mic!?
Well of course. Client's rights always come first, especially when we discuss therapeutic solutions. So that's why I'd like to know the full story here.
If the child loves being on the mic and wasn't given a speaking part? That's inexcusable.
If the child was given a part and then eloped from the group to go back on stage and has difficult giving up the mic, what the teacher did seems more acceptable.
It's not always such a black and white situation, and I agree, if this was part of a plan the parents should have been informed or a compromise could have been made (maybe he says the last line?). It's hard to say without knowing the full situation. But problem behaviors are complex and it's easy to just criticize the teacher from a short video.
Oh and firing her? Some of you are going WAY overboard. Educate others.
The fuck? Just stay away from spectrum kids, please. You generalize as if you have no actual education in the area.
Netherscourge
Banned
?????
He'd have to be pre-exposed to racial slurs in order for that to happen.
In which case, there's a lot more frightening things going on there than just a kid grabbing a mic in a Thanksgiving play.
thecouncil
Banned
You can really see the evil and hate within this teacher. She probably waited all November to screw this kid over. She should be fired, of course. No question about that. But I don't even think that's enough punishment. Maybe take her teaching license away. She obviously hates children, if she's willing to grab the microphone in such a mean way.
I appreciate your insight and reasoning. No. 2 definitely seems more likely than someone being that abhorrent. At least this is what I am telling myself to feel a little better about this story.
Sectorseven
Member
If you're putting together a play and your 10 year old autistic background extra is hell bent on running up to the mic and shouting "I'm a princess, I'm a princess!" you just let that shit happen. If you think they're going to say "I love Trump , he's going to keep out the Mexicans!" you consider yanking them off stage. One thing you don't do is tell them they can't be in the play, because that will be fucking hell for a lot longer than anyone in that group deserves.
My son has autism and naturally I'm extremely defensive of him.
But I also wouldn't be all "fire the bitch" if he was stopped from potentially disruptive behavior. No kid gets the chance at an open mic at a school play just because they end up with the mic somehow.
I want fair and equal treatment for him. Special consideration comes to allow him as many opportunities and access as possible - but that's in relation to his neurotypical peers. Some of the backlash seems to be based in pity for the child because he's autistic, and that's honestly not cool either, tho it at least comes from a good place in the heart instead of a dark one.
But I also wouldn't be all "fire the bitch" if he was stopped from potentially disruptive behavior. No kid gets the chance at an open mic at a school play just because they end up with the mic somehow.
I want fair and equal treatment for him. Special consideration comes to allow him as many opportunities and access as possible - but that's in relation to his neurotypical peers. Some of the backlash seems to be based in pity for the child because he's autistic, and that's honestly not cool either, tho it at least comes from a good place in the heart instead of a dark one.
she did seems pretty rude/smug/proud of herself tho
also more disturbing was the way people were laughing at it
Look, I'm going to relax my anger because I don't think you're trying to come off the way you are. Your entire argument about possible Trump/racism is a strawman that's a bit ludicrous. I think we all agree that if the kid has a history of saying inappropriate things, you do your best to take action. That said, I sincerely doubt this kid was going to jump up and say "fuck Brown people." Bit of a reach..
My problem with your posts is yet again you slip in some troublesome sentiments. This is now the third time.
As someone who works with spectrum kids, are you really so concerned with putting others through "fucking hell for a lot longer than any group deserves" when a high spectrum kid has an emotional episode? You might should reevaluate.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Teacher needs a time out.
EatinOlives
Member
Some people here have suggested that the teacher didn't notice him, but there's no real chance of that happening. The youtube link posted in the OP shows a different angle. You see the teacher crouching toward the mic as the final lines are being said, but she's clearly looking toward the kids. She can easily see the child in the turkey costume from her angle. The kid also yelled after the mic was removed, and there was no chance that she didn't hear him. Even if she had removed the mic by accident, she was clearly ignoring him.
Thank you for bringing some insight and sense to the discussion. It's really hard to know what's really going from such a short, out-of-context clip.
Yup, she knew exactly what she was doing.
Ryan242004
Member
Wow... your views on children with autism are disturbing to say the least. And your generalizations are also pretty ridiculous. I can only hope that any children on the spectrum don't have to interact with you on a regular basis. Sheesh.
Progressive Liberal NeoGaf is a biiiiig fan of vigilante justice that doesn't involve accused rapists
Silver Arrows
Banned
As someone who is autistic, it is just goddamn sad what I was reading from Sectorseven.
TimeEffect
Member
What do they mean that the play was over? Did he already have a turn or did she just deny him one?
Silver Arrows
Banned
Sectorseven, answer this:
I'm autistic. Very high functioning to the point where I am normal, but autistic nonetheless. So would you say that I am a ticking time bomb, even though I am a well adjusted man by this point?
I'm autistic. Very high functioning to the point where I am normal, but autistic nonetheless. So would you say that I am a ticking time bomb, even though I am a well adjusted man by this point?
So I read the thread including this possibility of not noticing him before watching the video. Then I watched the video and I have to disagree. She knew what she was doing. Do I think she should be fired over this? No. Disciplined? Yes.
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