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[ugaboga232]

Influenza is an RNA virus that when they replicate genetic coding errors occur. This is what makes them extremely hard to have a good vaccine to cover and stop them.

The flu shot is trying to immunize the strain that the WHO has predicted to be the dominant strain that year. While they do their best to make the proper predictions, it won't account for a strain that was overlooked (or was thought was not going to be the major strain that year).

Also, since it takes about two weeks for antibodies to be formed in the body, you can still get sick from the strain it's meant to stop if you are already carrying it and just have not developed symptoms. This is also the reason that if you tell someone to get a flu shot before seeing your kid, and they do it the day before, it won't help. So I hope you told people to get the flu shot two weeks or more before they see your kid.

You should be getting shots, and people should be giving kids their shots, cause polio and smallpox aren't fun to have.

Ok the rapid evolution of the flu is not why we can't cure it (though it doesn't help). Its because it has non human reservoirs. We have non vaccine based treatments for Hep C which have an almost 100% cure rate and hep c is a highly mutating RNA virus.

 

[AzerPhire]

I think that's pretty weird. We couldn't keep family and friends away during the first few months. People we hadn't seen in years were coming to visit us.

Plus we had to take our daughter outside because of life and stuff. Only exposing your child to 8 or so people in 3 months seems impossible honestly unless they're in the hospital for an extended period of time.

Yep to me these people sound like they live in and keep their babies in a bubble. Again I am not saying getting shots is bad just expecting everyone in your live to be 100% up to date is very hard and very unlikely.

During my daughters first 6 months she saw at least 30 family members including other kids, were part of many, many mommy and me type classes and went to the mall for walks almost daily (my daughter was born in January so it was too cold to take her for walks outside).

 

[KHarvey16]

Since when did not getting flu shots around a newborn become anti-vaxxer? Seems like a leap to me. Most people don't do this.

It's not simply not doing it that is anti-vaccine, it's arguing that you shouldn't have to do it in the face of overwhelming evidence and expert opinion that you should.

 

[Seiryoden]

A friend's child was kissed, as a baby, by a well wisher who unknowingly carried the cold sore virus. The child is now eight and has physical therapy every week for the disability that resulted.

 

[onadesertedisland]

It's the TDAP that is imperative around infants, not so much the flu shot. If you don't know what pertussis is, google it and watch a video of a newborn suffering with it.

 

[davepoobond]

i guess you could always get the kid sick with whatever germs you might have, that's an option too

 

[WeirdoStalkerJr]

It's a pretty young baby, I don't see anything wrong with them being cautious. Their house, their rules.

Pretty much this

 

[JimtotheHum]

It's not simply not doing it that is anti-vaccine, it's arguing that you shouldn't have to do it in the face of overwhelming evidence and expert opinion that you should.

To me, this issue falls into the "recommended" not "mandatory" catagory. Example: getting your vaccinations is mandatory, breastfeeding (instead of formula) is recommended. I put getting flu shots in the latter category. The benefits of the flu shot are undisputed (just like breastfeeding), but I don't think throwing around terms like "anti-vaxxer" are appropriate.

 

[KHarvey16]

To me, this issue falls into the "recommended" not "mandatory" catagory. Example: getting your vaccinations is mandatory, breastfeeding (instead of formula) is recommended. I put getting flu shots in the latter category. The benefits of the flu shot are undisputed, but I don't think throwing around terms like "anti-vaxxer" are appropriate.

I don't know why you're limiting this to the flu shot because the OP didn't. The CDC says people should be up to date. Arguing this is wrong is anti-science and can only be (and has only been) supported by anti-vaccination arguments.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Seems silly to me unless the child will never go out shopping , malls, restaurants.

If they want it, it's fine and thier choice. But I've never seen people going to the hospital at a birthday and getting this done before going.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

To me, this issue falls into the "recommended" not "mandatory" catagory. Example: getting your vaccinations is mandatory, breastfeeding (instead of formula) is recommended. I put getting flu shots in the latter category. The benefits of the flu shot are undisputed (just like breastfeeding), but I don't think throwing around terms like "anti-vaxxer" are appropriate.

If the CDC recommends you do it, what is the argument not to?

Also, it's not just the flu shot.

Seems silly to me unless the child will never go out shopping , malls, restaurants.

Key word being seems.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Its overly cautious 1st time parents thing. We wanted everyone in the family to get flu shots and shit with our first child but the 2nd was like whatever.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Its overly cautious 1st time parents thing.

No it isn't. It's what the CDC says to do.

 

[greepoman]

Our first 2 babies we kept interactions with other people limited (on advice of the pediatrician) and were very careful for the first 3 months. On our 3rd baby he was born in November and being so close to xmas and our 3rd baby we got a sense of complacency and brought him around big family gatherings. Big mistake...it wasn't whooping cough, but he contracted RSV (which is much like a cold in older people) and it was fucking terrifying. Coughing like a life-time smoker, wheezing, losing his breathe, the possibility of being life-threatening...it was a nightmare. Also the pamphlet on it was saying it it gets serious and deep in the lungs it could lead to life-time asthma. Felt so stupid for letting my guard down. Luckily he got over it and doesn't seem to have any residual side effects.

"Oh all these other people did it and it was fine" is a terrible piece of advice. Read the latest info. As people have posted there has been a spike in whooping cough the last several years and thus a spike in deaths. There are literally babies dying in the US from whooping cough which can easily be prevented. How is this being a crazy parent? Get your TDAP.

 

[grimmiq]

My whole family had these shots when my sister-in-law had her baby, she was fine with random people who'd pass by or visit briefly, but if you were going to be in the room with the baby for more than 30min, she needed us to have the shots. It wasn't an "OMG Stay away from my baby! DISEASE!" thing, it was recommended by multiple doctors.

 

[George Washington]

Newborns have a very weak immune system.

This. It's not fully developed until 6 months.

It's just a precaution taken by the parents and should not be taken personally, OP.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

If the CDC recommends you do it, what is the argument not to?

Also, it's not just the flu shot.



Key word being seems.

Ones want versus another's is all for me. If I don't want I guess I don't go. Flu shots do make me sick though but it's all ones choice as the parents have thier right not to let them come.

 

[Flo_Evans]

No it isn't. It's what the CDC says to do.

CDC says caregivers and family members (i.e. people in direct contact with the baby daily) not one time visitors.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

CDC says caregivers and family members (i.e. people in direct contact with the baby daily) not one time visitors.

From the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC):

Encourage others to get a whooping cough vaccine (called Tdap vaccine) at least 2 weeks before meeting your baby if they are not up-to-date with their whooping cough vaccines.

 

[JimtotheHum]

If the CDC recommends you do it, what is the argument not to?

Also, it's not just the flu shot.



Key word being seems.

Granted, not just flu shot. Also, like breastfeeding, sometimes it's just not feasible depending on the circumstances. Having every person that comes in contact (family and friends-wise) with the baby get a shot is not a situation that is feasible for some. Not arguing the benefits, and I would never say you shouldn't do it. I have two kids, no one brought the issue up to me. We did keep sick people away, just didn't require shots of those who were healthy.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Weird how some people are just adamant about not getting the flu shot.

Even if I wasn't in regular contact with immunocompromised people, I'd do just because the flu fucking sucks.

It's not overprotective, especially with a newborn.

 

[ginger ninja]

Absolutely.



Anyone that's not an anti-vaxxer would realize the request is normal.

Yea No. Fuck anti-vaxxers but I am not getting a shot just to see your baby bros. They have every right as a parent but you keep the baby fam, I am good where I am.

edit: this is if I am seeing the baby on a single occasion, if I am frequent visitor than thats a different thing.

 

[Calamari41]

Weird how some people are just adamant about not getting the flu shot.

Even if I wasn't in regular contact with immunocompromised people, I'd do just because the flu fucking sucks.

It's not overprotective, especially with a newborn.

Yeah, its almost like a weird "nobody tells me what to do" kind of thing. Especially with TDAP.

Not letting the dog sniff the baby is an overprotective first time parenting move. Boiling anything that the baby might touch because it fell on the couch is an overprotective first time parenting move. Doing what you can to mitigate the chances of a two month old contracting Pertussis is not an overprotective first time parenting move. Especially if you live in a dangerously under-vaccinated part of the country.

 

[skullmuffins]

Yea No. Fuck anti-vaxxers but I am not getting a shot just to see your baby bros. They have every right as a parent but you keep the baby fam, I am good where I am.

So you're not anti-vaxxer but you think it's reasonable to cancel a trip that's being planned months in advance with a flight & everything because you don't want to take 20 minutes to get a shot at a pharmacy. OK. Why the resistance?

 

[Izayoi]

Weird how some people are just adamant about not getting the flu shot.

Even if I wasn't in regular contact with immunocompromised people, I'd do just because the flu fucking sucks.

It's not overprotective, especially with a newborn.

For real.

"I don't need the flu shot, I like feeling like death incarnate for a week!"

*coolguyglasses*

 

[Goodlife]

Crazy first time parents

 

[Flo_Evans]

From the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC):

yes, "encourage" don't require. Its overkill but whatever its their baby.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Crazy first time parents

GAH!

 

[singhr1]

They are crazy and being over-protective. The best thing you can do is not take the shots, go there anyway, and cough on the kid. Then they will learn.

This is basically a death threat.

Is this bannable???

Kids' immature immune system is very susceptible to what we take for granted

 

[Zackat]

All you have to see is a baby with pertussis and you would understand. I know OP already answered, but some people in here are being absurd.

 

[KHarvey16]

yes, "encourage" don't require. Its overkill but whatever its their baby.

I like how this is exactly how the argument keeps going.

1 - "It's just parents being crazy"

2 - "Actually the CDC says to."

1 - "Nah it can't be!"

2 - "No look here..."

1 - "Oh well they don't say required."

2 - "..."

 

[Fireblend]

Damn at the ignorance in this thread. Specially people saying "lol I'm not anti vaxxer but my anecdotal evidence overrides your scientifically-approved guidelines".

Pretty depressing. Why are people so unwilling to just say they didn't know and they learned something new today?

 

[GamingKaiju]

You do realize that you can also build your immune system by not getting ill when you get a vaccination, right? There's two scenarios here:

1) Get sick, hopefully survive, build your immune system.
2) Don't get sick, definitely survive, build your immune system.

Flu vaccine isn't permanent and depends on regular updates... so no.

Also if your ill cold/flu doesn't matter you shouldn't be visiting a new born anyway.

I agree with whopping cough.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Flu vaccine isn't permanent and depends on regular updates... so no.

Also if your ill cold/flu doesn't matter you shouldn't be visiting a new born anyway.

I agree with whopping cough.

What do you mean "so no"? Are you saying that the flu vaccine doesn't help you build an immunity versus attenuated strains included in the vaccine? I don't really see how my statement can be replied to with "so no" as if something I stated was incorrect. Hell, my post was just broadly discussing vaccines anyway, but I'd still love to have you explain further as to how my statement is not correct regarding the flu.

 

[Beer Monkey]

In this thread: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

 

[Flo_Evans]

I like how this is exactly how the argument keeps going.

1 - "It's just parents being crazy"

2 - "Actually the CDC says to."

1 - "Nah it can't be!"

2 - "No look here..."

1 - "Oh well they don't say required."

2 - "..."

1. I did this with my 1st kid and his primary caregivers.

2. You are usually not as paranoid with the 2nd kid.

3. he has way more chance of giving the kid some random cold from the airplane that whooping cough or the flu.

4. if this is anything like 99% of baby visits his wife is going to be holding the kid while he watches

5. the CDC uses specific langue for a reason, on the same page it says the primary transmission is from close family members and caregivers. Looking at the baby is not going to get it sick.

 

[KHarvey16]

1. I did this with my 1st kid and his primary caregivers.

2. You are usually not as paranoid with the 2nd kid.

3. he has way more chance of giving the kid some random cold from the airplane that whooping cough or the flu.

4. if this is anything like 99% of baby visits his wife is going to be holding the kid while he watches

5. the CDC uses specific langue for a reason, on the same page it says the primary transmission is from close family members and caregivers. Looking at the baby is not going to get it sick.

1. Ok.

2. Ok.

3. Especially if he's up to date. Also note, colds are not the same as whooping cough.

4. Ok.

5. I enjoy you pointing out specific language usage and then ignore their explicit recommendation.

 

[Huff]

It's Tdap.

Please and thank you

 

[Fireblend]

1. I did this with my 1st kid and his primary caregivers.

2. You are usually not as paranoid with the 2nd kid.

3. he has way more chance of giving the kid some random cold from the airplane that whooping cough or the flu.

4. if this is anything like 99% of baby visits his wife is going to be holding the kid while he watches

5. the CDC uses specific langue for a reason, on the same page it says the primary transmission is from close family members and caregivers. Looking at the baby is not going to get it sick.

OP's visiting the baby, not the other way around. Also, anecdotal evidence != good argument.

 

[GamingKaiju]

What do you mean "so no"? Are you saying that the flu vaccine doesn't help you build an immunity versus attenuated strains included in the vaccine? I don't really see how my statement can be replied to with "so no" as if something I stated was incorrect. Hell, my post was just broadly discussing vaccines anyway, but I'd still love to have you explain further as to how my statement is not correct regarding the flu.

It's not permanent. After 12 months you've lost the immunisation. Go and use google for your insufferable tone pls.

 

[drumlord]

Our first 2 babies we kept interactions with other people limited (on advice of the pediatrician) and were very careful for the first 3 months. On our 3rd baby he was born in November and being so close to xmas and our 3rd baby we got a sense of complacency and brought him around big family gatherings. Big mistake...it wasn't whooping cough, but he contracted RSV (which is much like a cold in older people) and it was fucking terrifying. Coughing like a life-time smoker, wheezing, losing his breathe, the possibility of being life-threatening...it was a nightmare. Also the pamphlet on it was saying it it gets serious and deep in the lungs it could lead to life-time asthma. Felt so stupid for letting my guard down. Luckily he got over it and doesn't seem to have any residual side effects.

"Oh all these other people did it and it was fine" is a terrible piece of advice. Read the latest info. As people have posted there has been a spike in whooping cough the last several years and thus a spike in deaths. There are literally babies dying in the US from whooping cough which can easily be prevented. How is this being a crazy parent? Get your TDAP.

Anyone who says a parent wanting to minimize risk of death for their children is crazy is a douche. One of my twins had open heart surgery at 10 days old and that made him eligible for the RSV vaccine. The majority of kids aren't eligible because it's thousands of dollars a month. I'm so sorry you had to go through that nightmare; just reading about it was scary enough.

Our rule of thumb, the crazy parents that we were: if you are coming to see the kids, you can't be sick or have been around sick people, you had to have your flu shot, and you have to wash your hands. We bent the flu shot rule for brief visits. If you are taking care of the kids, you had to do all that and had to have had your TDAP. Totally reasonable and we only had one minor cold in the high risk pre-6 months zone. The OP was flying to be with the newborn which I would count as taking care of them in terms of exposure.

It's not permanent. After 12 months you've lost the immunisation.

Not only does it not last forever, they make a different cocktail each year based on which strains they predict will be the most likely to spread. That's why the effectiveness isn't the same every year; their predictions aren't always right. Even if it's only 20% effective though, that's a lot better than 0%

 

[greepoman]

1. I did this with my 1st kid and his primary caregivers.

2. You are usually not as paranoid with the 2nd kid.

3. he has way more chance of giving the kid some random cold from the airplane that whooping cough or the flu.

4. if this is anything like 99% of baby visits his wife is going to be holding the kid while he watches

5. the CDC uses specific langue for a reason, on the same page it says the primary transmission is from close family members and caregivers. Looking at the baby is not going to get it sick.

But the chance of a random cold killing the baby is much less than whooping cough. Looking at the baby won't get it sick but holding the baby is very customary with baby visits that I've seen. And they can cough and maybe get someone else there sick.

You're whole argument of overkill is the about percentages...well did you know only about 8000 people died per year of whooping cough before the vaccine? Following your logic I mean it's such a small percentage why even vaccinate anyone? I mean only 277 babies 3 months and younger died between 2000-2014 in the US, even though that could easily be much closer to 0 why bother right?

Also my story above was exactly what you said, my 3rd child I wasn't as paranoid and he contracted RSV at 2 months and could've died. Went to the pediatrician 5 times in seven days. Could still have permanent asthma from it. So would it really be overkill to have been more careful?

 

[charlequin]

then again my kids used to feed each other ants, worms, and dirt so...

A lot of people have brought this kind of thing up as a supposed contrast to keeping kids away from unvaccinated adults, so I just wanted to note that these aren't really parallel. Kids old enough to go out on their own getting messy, playing with other kids who might be sick, eating dirt (as long as you don't live somewhere with lead in the soil) are all a good thing; this is the normal way immune systems develop.

This is a different case specifically because it's about that first 3 month period where the immune system is almost non-existent. During that period a whole lot of stuff that'll be totally fine afterwards is still much, much more risky.

Since when did not getting flu shots around a newborn become anti-vaxxer?

Anyone whose response to someone requesting they get up to date on a vaccine is much beyond "oh good idea, that's cheap and easy so i might as well do it" is de facto antivax at this point given how they're supporting the idea that vaccines are these terrible, burdensome things that people should have all this personal autonomy over.

Yep to me these people sound like they live in and keep their babies in a bubble.

Or you could try actually reading anything that any of several people has posted to you in this thread and recognizing this is a dumb and incorrect knee-jerk reaction.

Seems silly to me unless the child will never go out shopping , malls, restaurants.

Kids under two months shouldn't be going out to a lot of places. Once they're older and their own immune system starts kicking in it's a very different situation.

 

[Poppy]

anyone who comes into this thread indignant about not getting a shot to see someones baby is a selfish fuckface, anyone picking at the reasoning and pretending like they are smarter than the majority of doctors and scientists on this subject is a stupid fuckface, like what the hell is wrong with all of you

do you honestly believe anyone gives a shit about your dumbass reasoning for not getting a simple shot to avoid a chance at causing harm to an infant? because everyone just rightly thinks you are a fucking asshole

i am not blaming the op for making this thread but all the "WELL ACTUALLY" hangers on are idiots. fuck you. your bullshit reasoning and senseless self importance is what emboldens anti vaccination and other anti science idiots. thank god you need to tell the world about your ignorant personal opinion, you really broke through the persecution that morons face and delivered a sermon about being a selfish prick!

generally if you have a dumbass uninformed opinion based only on personal feelings instead of facts you are supposed to realize your flaws and better yourself, not dig in and decide to never change. that kind of person makes me goddamn sick

 

[Keri]

1. I did this with my 1st kid and his primary caregivers.

2. You are usually not as paranoid with the 2nd kid.

The TDAP shot lasts for ten years, so if you had your second child within 10 years of the first, you did protect both of your children.

Also, if you don't want to get shots, fine, don't. No one cares, as long as you stay away from newborns. No rational person will care so much about your meeting their baby, that they'll accept the risk to their newborns health, even the minimal one.

 

[KHarvey16]

It's not permanent. After 12 months you've lost the immunisation. Go and use google for your insufferable tone pls.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice. Flu vaccines can last for years. It may or may not be effective against new strains, but new shots are developed to combat what experts think will be the next popular strain in the region the shot is given. That's why it's recommended yearly. It doesn't wear off that quickly.

The same applies to your "just get sick" method too, by the way.

 

[diablos991]

Nobody came into contact with my newborn unless they had their TDAP. It will be the same rule for the next kiddo.

Parental protection is a hell of a thing.
I'm not risking my kid's life so you don't have to be poked in the arm.

 

[Staccat0]

They are just doing what is recommended

 

[TheGrizz]

CDC says caregivers and family members (i.e. people in direct contact with the baby daily) not one time visitors.

This. I have three kids and our pediatrician only recommends shots for direct caregivers/family who will be in contact day in and day out, not one time visitors. However, it is up to the parent's discretion, so you gotta play by their rules, sorry OP. Parents are typically more neurotic with their first borns.

 

[RumblingRosco]

It's not permanent. After 12 months you've lost the immunisation. Go and use google for your insufferable tone pls.

Where did my post say anything about a vaccine being permanent? My post wasn't even regarding the flu vaccine specifically anyway, but even if it was, nothing in there stated that the flu vaccine is a one-time thing. Also, where did you hear that you've "lost the immunisation" after 12 months? Antibody levels certainly decline, but I've never seen evidence that it's 100% lost after 12 months - and, if it was, I'd love to see evidence that suggests getting the flu would somehow build up your antibody levels to last more than a flu vaccine would.

The only insufferable thing between our posts is your failure to read what I'm typing and pulling out unrelated arguments. My original reply to you simply stated that your argument of "build your immune system by getting ill" was seriously flawed and outdated.