I have 0 faith in politicians. Unless you change up the political system completely nothing will change. It's a fairy dream to think that Bernie alone can grab billions of dollars more in tax hikes (and getting approved to do so) without owing any favors.
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Vox: Bernie Sanders's tax hikes are bigger than Donald Trump's tax cuts
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I have 0 faith in politicians. Unless you change up the political system completely nothing will change. It's a fairy dream to think that Bernie alone can grab billions of dollars more in tax hikes (and getting approved to do so) without owing any favors.
Yeah, I see no problem with this. For my family, for instance, the tax increase is almost exactly what we pay in health care premiums... but we'd save overall because of deductibles and so on. Plus we'd be paying to provide health care and education for the people in our community.
Most Americans should be in favor of this.
I do see where the increase at higher income brackets gets pretty stiff, though. For people living in high cost-of-living areas like SF, NY, Northern Virginia, $111k for a family isn't a whole lot, and that extra tax will hurt.
ugaboga232
Member
Agreed but this is a pipe dream plan and requires a change in the system already to happen so that is why I am not really arguing about that.
When you pay ~2,500 in mortgage and property taxes, you can come back and lecture the common man about how selfish they're being.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
I'm a democrat, and taxes never bothered me. My wife and I have been very fortunate to have high paying jobs and we both feel that we can chip in more than the average household and pay a little more for things like ACA.
That said, if this is true - fuck everything about Bernie's tax increases. This honestly reads like a punishment for success as opposed to paying a little more to do your part.
That said, if this is true - fuck everything about Bernie's tax increases. This honestly reads like a punishment for success as opposed to paying a little more to do your part.
ugaboga232
Member
That doesn't really change the point and is a complete non-sequitur as either you make enough to lose money on the tax increase and are doing better than 80% of americans or you will save money on healthcare.
This is paying for doing your part, ACA didn't really make you pay much more at all. I am glad you are doing really well but a lot of people aren't. Don't vote for bernie but don't think this is a punishment for success, you will still be at the same relative level of success.
It's misleading because it is combining the employer and employee payroll taxes. You never see the employer side on your paystub. Im not sure the majority of americans even know the employer pays a matching amount of payroll tax as they do.
It is common in a certain field? Because it certainly isn't in the IT industry
Same here, and I support a lot of people with my income. Wife and 4 kids (3 going to college). I just don't have an extra $1250 a month to pay in taxes.
ugaboga232
Member
Guess what these taxes pay for (college and healthcare). Also living outside of your means is not a good excuse.
Big Baybee
Member
Doesn't bother me at all, but it would bother most Americans. That's just the dumb reality here.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Careful there. You don't even know this guy, and honestly this is why no one can stand Bernie supporters these days.
Seems that if you have a single criticism of Sanders you're worse than Hitler, in bed with Drumpf, or some hybrid of the two.
I'm sorry, how are you certain that he is living outside his means exactly?
It's not misleading at all, any increase in employer payroll taxes will be directly removed from employee pay. It would be misleading to try to argue otherwise.
I've always thought it was massively dishonest for Bernie to do things this way. He should just increase income taxes directly instead of trying to hide it.
Dude you you're coming off extremely arrogant, entitled and a bit naive about this entire thing.
Seriously...
"HEY, tell me how you feel about taxes when you have a $1200/month car loan to pay off!"
Why the fuck does nobody want to address the fact that these rates are far lower than the highest rates from just a few decades ago?
Do you believe health care is a right?
ugaboga232
Member
This person is going to get hosed by the tax plan AKA is in the top quintile of earners in america and can't pay extra in tax a month which they will probably make back in lower college tuition and healthcare at least to an extent?
Crimson_Gold
Member
This accusation is unfounded and unfair. Paying an extra $1250 a month would change many people's lives.
Tesseract
Banned
it goes both ways, denying people their right to healthcare because you feel punished for being successful ain't doing you any favors
that said, i'm ghosting before it gets weird
gutter_trash
Banned
how much do people pay in Health Insurance monthly in the US?
Zoe
Member
What other way would be more direct?
Skellig Gra
Member
Lol Hillary is bullshitting with those tax numbers. $143 ain't gonna do shit.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
That is ironically enough the argument libertarians and free market republicans use, and time and time again we see that it doesn't create competition. Companies sometimes collude to keep competition down (see silicon valley controversy from just a couple of years ago) and even if they dont the wages remain stagnant because the companies will always hire the cheaper and younger alternative.
I do agree that making healthcare free for everyone will give people more options and they will look around more which means more competition. But as you said, free healthcare in this country is a pipe dream.
ugaboga232
Member
Please read the thread, this has been addressed like 30 times.
The difference is that lower income taxes do not incentivize or change marginal costs for labor and is super easy to show how it doesnt change any of the math or more/better jobs. Lowering healthcare spending by an employer for an employee does.
Big Baybee
Member
Me, my wife, and my daughter................a whole fucking lot. It's insane. I wish this country was ready for Bernie.
If you look at past historical tax rates, the higher income groups have the lowest tax rates in almost 80 years. People just get used to the lower tax rates before realizing what the marginal tax rates used to be
God Dayumm
Banned
And they have been wrong 30 times. Insurance premiums with the individual and employer contributions combined are cheaper than these tax hikes.
ugaboga232
Member
For who? You? not for the vast majority of the population. There is a handy dandy graph earlier on which confirms my point up to the top quintile.
It's widely variable. Different companies pay different amounts, every company has a different plan, there are lots of self-funded plans with varied size risk pools.
In terms of real spending, the average person actually spends about $9500 a year on healthcare, but it's paid through a mixture of co-pays, premium payments by the employee, and premium payments by the employer.
That's not true. Some of them are less, some of them are more. For low income brackets it's considerably less. For middle income brackets it about evens out, and wealthier people are paying more.
Zoe
Member
People don't even understand how income taxes work now (see any tax refund or brackets thread). Percentages are extremely straight forward.
dragonelite
Member
I'm wondering the same right now?
I pay like 72 euros/month(max own risk) right now in the Netherlands.
Dam sounds complicated.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
he has three kids going to college and a wife. he's not paying $1200 a month on a lamborghini. thats 4 potentially five car payments.
This is accurate. I pay $6k a year for a family of three and im pretty sure my company puts in another $6k. With copay and out of pocket maximums, it comes out to be somewhere around $8k-$13k a year.
ugaboga232
Member
You make it seem like going to college is a right everyone has (which sounds a lot like bernie...)
That was for 1 year in Friedman's analysis and that is one economists model.
Zoe
Member
It's "free" to me, as in my company pays for it. About $500/month.
Last year my total out-of-pocket was about $150.
I switched jobs in 2015 so I'll have to look at my tax statements to add them up but I have my 2014 handy. Between my company and my premiums health insurance for my wife and myself cost almost $13,000 in premiums in 2014. That doesn't include any co-pays, prescription drugs, etc. It'll vary on coverage but my coverage is pretty decent so my cost will probably be higher then others. I'd imagine family premiums are insane
Crimson_Gold
Member
He obviously should have just had one kid and then this wouldn't be an issue. I don't see why people struggle to see how the additional taxes could be a burden on many. There are net benefits for many as well. Demonizing people that would be adversely impacted, like unable to afford their mortgage, by the greater taxes is unfair though
Euphoria14
Member
So my taxes would go up $9000/year when I currently pay $4654/year for Medical with no copays.
This is will hurt my family a lot.
I think I just hopped off the Bernie train if this is true. My family income (family of 3) is ~$110,000.
This is will hurt my family a lot.
I think I just hopped off the Bernie train if this is true. My family income (family of 3) is ~$110,000.
Its around $400 a per month per person. How much you actually pay of that depends on your employer.
ugaboga232
Member
What? It is about 9500 per capita so that doesn't add up at all.
So don't vote for him? He is pretty transparent on this, you know what you are getting with him.
Princess Carl
Member
Thats what happens when there's money to be made and everyone has to get their piece.
Money first, service later(maybe).
In theory by increasing production with healthier, better educated workers. You'd have a much larger pool of college educated workers, who are healthier and taking less time off for illness, mental health issues, etc.
You can probably look up the cost of those things to American businesses pretty easily. The last time I checked they were fairly significant costs to production.
eh, I don't think so - look at the average chart Zoe posted $5-6k per year is about right per person.
Zoe
Member
Your number includes out of pocket spending. The number Kaiser has (which is lower but from 2012) says, "Health expenditure includes the provision of health services, family planning activities, nutrition activities and emergency aid designated for heath, but excludes the provision of water and sanitation."
I was being facetious,
This is going to have an adverse effect on growth and in the spending of the population.
1 thing for sure is that there's a bigger chance for the tax hikes to go into effect than the healthcare bill have to shrink.
This has to go through Congress too.
Any idea how that's going to happen with a R Congress?
I'm not arguing that the gain you could get overtime would not be there.
I'm arguing that the loss in the short/medium term will scare anyone from even trying to get there.
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