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Vox: Democrats are falling for fake news about Russia
- Thread starter Makonero
- Start date
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Mensch is an idiot. Never rely on twitter sources until they've proven to be reliable, and Mensch is on about the same level as conservative conspiracy theorists.
Edit : Well maybe not. Nobody has tried to kill someone over this stuff yet.
Edit : Well maybe not. Nobody has tried to kill someone over this stuff yet.
Yes. It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome....just like it was called Obama Derangement Syndrome the last 8yrs.
Indeed. And none of it is surprising.
I see people on here falling for it constantly. Just like Republicans (when it came against Hillary or Obama), some people are so eager for collusion they'll believe anything.
Indeed. And none of it is surprising.
Aaronology
Member
One line from the article immediately gives me pause. "Theres nothing about Democratic psychology that prevents them from doing the same." If the insinuation here is that the Left is just as susceptible to fake news, I'm not buying that. It's been studied: Liberals consume news from a variety of different media and are more informed in general. NPR talked to a fake news source themselves and this bit sticks out:
We Tracked Down A Fake-News Creator In The Suburbs. Here's What We Learned
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs
So yes. Fake news exists on the Left, but it doesn't have nearly the same shelf life or impact. Here we are, on GAF, discussing fake news aimed at liberals and the problem it presents. Does anyone think a similar thread exists on Free Republic, voat, Stormfront or t_d?
We Tracked Down A Fake-News Creator In The Suburbs. Here's What We Learned
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs
When did you notice that fake news does best with Trump supporters?
Well, this isn't just a Trump-supporter problem. This is a right-wing issue. Sarah Palin's famous blasting of the lamestream media is kind of record and testament to the rise of these kinds of people. The post-fact era is what I would refer to it as. This isn't something that started with Trump. This is something that's been in the works for a while. His whole campaign was this thing of discrediting mainstream media sources, which is one of those dog whistles to his supporters. When we were coming up with headlines it's always kind of about the red meat. Trump really got into the red meat. He knew who his base was. He knew how to feed them a constant diet of this red meat.
We've tried to do similar things to liberals. It just has never worked, it never takes off. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out.
So yes. Fake news exists on the Left, but it doesn't have nearly the same shelf life or impact. Here we are, on GAF, discussing fake news aimed at liberals and the problem it presents. Does anyone think a similar thread exists on Free Republic, voat, Stormfront or t_d?
Lonewulfeus
Member
THIS IS FAKE NEWS!!!!
Am I doing it right?
Tranqueris
Banned
Silly Democrats. That's why I get my information about Russia from reputable sources like Jill Stein. Jill Stein 2020! She has the real kind of leadership Washington needs!
/s
Aaronology
Member
And how long did it take for that story to deflate and be forgotten after someone corrected it shortly after it was posted? It's insulting to compare how "both sides" absorb fake media.I've been thinking about this recently, how receptive each side is to 'fake news' as long as it follows their narrative. Always check your sources. It happened last week with that stupid "Sean Spicer wore two different shoes" story. Even NYT, which I respect in general, mislead readers with those Super Bowl attendance photos, though at least they issued a correction.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
And how long did it take for that story to deflate and be forgotten after someone corrected it shortly after it was posted? It's insulting to compare how "both sides" absorb fake media.
Mmm yeah I think you're right. People like Mensch don't have as big of an impact or platform and such news gets disseminated pretty quickly.
What is dangerous is that the actual blood in the water on the Russia issue can be diluted by delusions of people like Mensch doing red scare level paranoia of people being Kremlin agents.
Like there's no need to romanticize or make stuff up. That doesn't do anything to help you.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
People are susceptible to propaganda. That they are Republican, Democrats, right, left, cucks ...whatever....is incidental.
Our country's biggest problem is not having the ability to root out bullshit when they see it. Until the day comes when they can and do, politicians will forever pander.
As a liberal myself, I put more weight trying to come to the right conclusion and calling out my own bullshit than anyone else.
Our country's biggest problem is not having the ability to root out bullshit when they see it. Until the day comes when they can and do, politicians will forever pander.
As a liberal myself, I put more weight trying to come to the right conclusion and calling out my own bullshit than anyone else.
And how long did it take for that story to deflate and be forgotten after someone corrected it shortly after it was posted? It's insulting to compare how "both sides" absorb fake media.
I'm not saying both sides are exactly the same here (believe me, I hate that type of logic). The fake stories absorbed by the left aren't as crazy as the Seth Rich/Pizzagate nonsense of the alt-right. I'm saying that if I personally want to stay on my toes and remain a part of the political dialogue, I want to do my best to keep my facts straight. In a time where the president's office is held by a child and all branches of the government are held by a Republican majority, the last thing I want is to be brushed aside because I believed one fake story. That's a luxury the alt-right can afford, but not me.
It's frustrating because there are already so many idiotic things done by this administration... there's no need for fake stories when there's already so much material to work with.
Seems like a false equivalence to me, Mensch has at least been redeemed to a degree by other news sources that have picked up her stories. I can't remember the last time I saw a huge breaking news story that turned out to be legitimate and was originally scooped by the Fox/Breitbart/Infowars crowd. Also, given the accusations she throws around, if she really was crazy I'd expect there to be one libel suit after another.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Oh Hitman, come get your boys.
There's a reason why linking to someone's Twitter that freely mixes speculation with a few tidbits of news isn't a 'source'.
There's a reason why linking to someone's Twitter that freely mixes speculation with a few tidbits of news isn't a 'source'.
The difference is that there is no liberal news network spending every hour of every day pushing these conspiracy theories and treating them as fact. People always want to start the "both sides are the same" thing but that's not close to what's happening here. Some people retweeting or going to the sites isn't the same as what conservatives have been doing for years.
Exactly. Seth rich got far more press in the past two weeks than anything the palmer report, Taylor, mensch etc posted.And how long did it take for that story to deflate and be forgotten after someone corrected it shortly after it was posted? It's insulting to compare how "both sides" absorb fake media.
It's insulting to say both sides fall for fake news when it's for every 1 democrat posting fake shit theirs 15 republicans posting fake shit
BrutishMrFish
Member
This seems to personally irk Mensch, who has occasionally suggested the Palmer Report is ripping her off.
That's hilarious. She thinks he's stealing her thunder when he's really discrediting her.
There's no reason to trust any of these people when they clearly care about getting followers hyped over whatever gets them more exposure. Wait for your news to come from outlets worth a damn.
The left won't be nearly as bad as the right when it comes to fake news until the left-leaning equivalents to Trump and Hannity start falling for it, but still, that shit is embarrassing.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I lol'd when I saw Donna Brazile's tweet at Louise Mensch
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Louise Mensch retweet = unfollow
As in Louise "if you buy coffee, you can't protest" Mensch? Who the fuck would listen to her...?
This is an issue on the left, although obviously it's not as widespread as the right. The left generally trusts mainstream media like CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc and the major newspapers. But there are some among the left that don't trust them, thinking they're part of the establishment. Those people are the ones susceptible to this
Lord Fagan
Junior Member
I've been too busy reading NYT, WaPo, and Politico to have more than a cursory look at the chicanary this article describes.
EatinOlives
Member
As in Louise "if you buy coffee, you can't protest" Mensch? Who the fuck would listen to her...?
She tells people what they want to hear. "Jeff Sessions might get arrested tomorrow!" and similar speculative garbo.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I've not seen or heard of any of this.
Show me the receipts of people passing this shit along via social media. Fuck this "both sides" nonsense.
Show me the receipts of people passing this shit along via social media. Fuck this "both sides" nonsense.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Doesn't help that with trump the ridiculous has become routine.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I'm... not guilty of this. So, there's that. I don't even come across this shit.
The President of the United States is attacking all media that isn't right wing shills as #FakeNews. This same president talked to the former FBI director about arresting journalists. The current reaction around the ongoing controversies surround the President is about #leaks with the implication that we should go after the media.
This same President pushed the widely accepted right wing conspiracy theory that Obama was not born in the United States for years before he was elected to the extent that it lead to a direct media confrontation with said President.
The President of the United States made up a story about Obama wiretapping him, this was pushed by the RWM, and now a majority of Republicans believe it is true despite widespread denial/condemnation by the FBI, Republicans in Congress and the Intelligence Community.
Part of what got Trump elected was a widespread assault against Clinton for a variety of made up/trumped up controversies (Benghazi) based largely on conspiracy theories. Many Republicans believe that Clinton has outright killed people or had them killed.
There are numerous reports of the White House itself proliferating this fake news internally and Trump himself tweeting about it.
The right wing media is presenting basic reporting of facts regarding Comey/Russia as a witch hunt against the president
Steve Bannon, the former CEO of Breitbart News, is given a senior position in the White House
Right now, the mainstream right wing media is pushing a conspiracy that a DNC staffer was murdered by DNC/Clinton despite the wishes and legal threats of his family.
There will always be people in this country prone to conspiracy theories, left or right. What is going on with the right wing in this country doesn't even remotely compare to the left.
Good on Vox though writing an article that will now be cited for years as "both sides" nonsense meant to further normalize this shit.
This same President pushed the widely accepted right wing conspiracy theory that Obama was not born in the United States for years before he was elected to the extent that it lead to a direct media confrontation with said President.
The President of the United States made up a story about Obama wiretapping him, this was pushed by the RWM, and now a majority of Republicans believe it is true despite widespread denial/condemnation by the FBI, Republicans in Congress and the Intelligence Community.
Part of what got Trump elected was a widespread assault against Clinton for a variety of made up/trumped up controversies (Benghazi) based largely on conspiracy theories. Many Republicans believe that Clinton has outright killed people or had them killed.
There are numerous reports of the White House itself proliferating this fake news internally and Trump himself tweeting about it.
The right wing media is presenting basic reporting of facts regarding Comey/Russia as a witch hunt against the president
Steve Bannon, the former CEO of Breitbart News, is given a senior position in the White House
Right now, the mainstream right wing media is pushing a conspiracy that a DNC staffer was murdered by DNC/Clinton despite the wishes and legal threats of his family.
There will always be people in this country prone to conspiracy theories, left or right. What is going on with the right wing in this country doesn't even remotely compare to the left.
Good on Vox though writing an article that will now be cited for years as "both sides" nonsense meant to further normalize this shit.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Mensch has been right way more times than she's been wrong and this is from someone who thinks she's crazy as cat shit
If your right:wrong ratio is 50:50 you aren't a reliable source. Same with gaming-side "insiders" who just post what people want to hear and bask in the back-patting when they get something right once a year.
Obviously it's worth noting that there's no equivalence between some nutjobs on the left believing crazy people on twitter and an entire right-wing infrastructure propagating crazy stuff, from shit like infowars or subreddits to AM radio to massively popular news channels, and believed by people from bottom-level voters all the way to the actual honest-to-god-somehow potus. But rather than just patting ourselves on the back for being less stupid than the other side, we should work to maintain that by being careful with sources, reading more than just the headline, tracking down where stories are actually coming from before believing them. Look for other angles, understand how stories spread, find the original source, read the study. It takes work to keep your beliefs in line with reality.
Aaronology
Member
Aye. "Fake News" isn't just a problem on the Right. It's an indisputable core aspect of right wing media as a whole. There is no Left equivalent.The difference is that there is no liberal news network spending every hour of every day pushing these conspiracy theories and treating them as fact. People always want to start the "both sides are the same" thing but that's not close to what's happening here. Some people retweeting or going to the sites isn't the same as what conservatives have been doing for years.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Who would fall for that horseshit? Jesus.
Several NeoGAFfers.
Neuromancer
Member
The leaks are real but the news is fake.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
That's a broad generalization seemingly supported by just a few.
While there's undoubtedly a few democrat-identified folks who've passed along some of this, there's at least been a bit of evidence to suggest democrats are less susceptible.
Obviously it's worth noting that there's no equivalence between some nutjobs on the left believing crazy people on twitter and an entire right-wing infrastructure propagating crazy stuff, from shit like infowars or subreddits to AM radio to massively popular news channels, and believed by people from bottom-level voters all the way to the actual honest-to-god-somehow potus. But rather than just patting ourselves on the back for being less stupid than the other side, we should work to maintain that by being careful with sources, reading more than just the headline, tracking down where stories are actually coming from before believing them. Look for other angles, understand how stories spread, find the original source, read the study. It takes work to keep your beliefs in line with reality.
Cyan got it right. Yeah, liberals aren't as bad in the US in lapping this stuff up. Let's keep it that way. Don't let it get a foothold.
When I seriously saw someone posting the other day RE: Mensch "well, most of the stories on their timeline haven't been completely debunked yet so how do you know they're BS?" I wanted to punch a wall. That's not how presenting evidence works.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Obviously it's worth noting that there's no equivalence between some nutjobs on the left believing crazy people on twitter and an entire right-wing infrastructure propagating crazy stuff, from shit like infowars or subreddits to AM radio to massively popular news channels, and believed by people from bottom-level voters all the way to the actual honest-to-god-somehow potus. But rather than just patting ourselves on the back for being less stupid than the other side, we should work to maintain that by being careful with sources, reading more than just the headline, tracking down where stories are actually coming from before believing them. Look for other angles, understand how stories spread, find the original source, read the study. It takes work to keep your beliefs in line with reality.
Unfortunately this has to be said, because without proper context all this shit reads like, "both sides". Nah, fuck that. Both sides are not equal and while there might be some silliness going around in small pockets, it's not main stream among democrats and never will be, because by and large Democrats like facts, fact checking and reputable sources.
Despite what smug Democrats will tell you about the rubes on the other side, everybody's vulnerable to the lure of tribalism and cognitive bias.
I don't see very many so called smug democrats believing they are not vulnerable. One of the biggest issues Dems have is the fact that sometimes they aren't as tribalistic as the rubes on the other side. Look at bernie vs clinton.
You rarely on the news see democrats going around attacking restaurants over fake news.
If your right:wrong ratio is 50:50 you aren't a reliable source. Same with gaming-side "insiders" who just post what people want to hear and bask in the back-patting when they get something right once a year.
Fair but as another poster said...
I've looked at all. Unconfirmed and unproven does not me disproven. However I'm still left with this list of proven reports:
FISA confirmed. Not bullshit.
Chaffetz resignation confirmed. Not bullshit.
Grand Jury subpeonas confirmed. Not bullshit.
FBI warrants granted and executed confirmed. Not bullshit.
Trump secret plane meetings with Oligarch confirmed. Not bullshit.
Fake News exists on the left, no doubt. The same forces are there, and the left is just as susceptible. Seriously, during the election some of the shit The Young Turks peddled was just as dumb-as-shit and blatantly false as anything I'd see on Breitbart...well, minus the antisemitism.
I think the big difference, and why you don't, and likely won't, see fake news take over the left like it has the right is that there is no Fox News of the left absorbing the fake news, amplifying it, and mainstreaming it.
I think the big difference, and why you don't, and likely won't, see fake news take over the left like it has the right is that there is no Fox News of the left absorbing the fake news, amplifying it, and mainstreaming it.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I kind of reject the thesis here that this is an equivalent phenomenon to the Republican conspiracy sphere. Firstly, this isn't getting whipped up out of thin air. Secondly, when liberals see it debunked they ACCEPT THE DEBUNKING. You STILL find tons of pizzagate believers on the right.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
She tells people what they want to hear. "Jeff Sessions might get arrested tomorrow!" and similar speculative garbo.
B-b-b-but she's a buffoon!
And here's an example of what I was talking about:
Liberals definitely need to be wary of the bullshit that random people come up with but it is nowhere near the same as what has happened with conservatives. Conservatives live in a completely different world that their media helps to perpetuate.Lead story right now
CNN: Trump and Russians
MSNBC: Trump and Russians
Fox News: Dam repairs
https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/865650804937572354
Fake News exists on the left, no doubt. The same forces are there, and the left is just as susceptible. Seriously, during the election some of the shit The Young Turks peddled was just as dumb-as-shit and blatantly false as anything I'd see on Breitbart...well, minus the antisemitism.
I think the big difference, and why you don't, and likely won't, see fake news take over the left like it has the right is that there is no Fox News of the left absorbing the fake news, amplifying it, and mainstreaming it.
And you don't have a focal point like Clinton anymore, alot of that shit was "Sounds like bullshit, but I hate her for 'reasons'. So I am going to entertain it for minute"
shawnbuddy
Member
Yeah nah
there isn't a democrat subreddit filled with hundreds of thousands of people actively putting their hands over their ears refusing to believe news coming out about the orange fuckstick while grasping at conspiracy theories that have no value
Vox is reaching
No, but there are lots of Bernie subreddits like that.
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