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[Team Andromeda]

You can't show any "vrr effect" via the videos they produce. But everyone who uses a VRR capable display knows that dips and drops in games that run at a maximum of 30fps (especially down to the low 20's) are not salvagable by VRR. But yet, despite that you've attempted to claim VRR means you "didn't get any frame drops", which everyone knows is nonsense.



I don't need to play a game running at 30fps with dips to know is going to look like shit regardless, VRR or no VRR. I've seen and experienced it first hand prior to me upgrading my PC, it's not fun. If you're capabale of fooling yourself in to believing it's a good experience because you have no other choice and/or you have a duty to promote the console then that's your problem, not mine.

You can't show the effect that VRR has, yet you post a picture of dropped frames LOL. Keep it coming

Maybe you need to play both Metro and Medium on a Series X with VRR and 120hz mode enabled and you might be surprised the effect VRR can have with a game, that's assuming you even have a Series X

 

[Edmund]

Now you're just lying, nobody is talking about "perfect frames", the discussion is around how people have greatly exaggerated the impact of VRR and how it does not mitigate for performance issues in the way that people have claimed, all of which you were involved in by the way.

Here's you claiming you don't get any frame drops with VRR:

Here's you claiming VRR eliminates stutter:

You claiming there are "no issues" with a game thanks to VRR despite the framerate dropping to 53fps in a game that is supposed to hold 60fps:

You claiming the well documented OLED VRR flicker doesn't exist:

Need I go on?

You were deep in the trenches on this topic along with Riky , supporting each other's nonsensical (and a lot of the time, outright false) posts surrounding the subject of VRR. If I didn't know any better I'd think several of the posts on the topic came from the same person.

So in that context, it's now 100% apparent as to why you're taking issue with this video from digital foundry.

I wonder what turned Riky into such a pussy that he doesn't dare to post anymore. Only react to posts.

 

[GHG]

You can't show the effect that VRR has, yet you post a picture of dropped frames LOL. Keep it coming

Because you still see dropped frames with VRR. Like I said, you fundamentally don't understand how VRR works.

Maybe you need to play both Metro and Medium on a Series X with VRR and 120hz mode enabled and you might be surprised the effect VRR can have with a game, that's assuming you even have a Series X

You low IQ deciples are equal parts cute and hilarious. What makes you think that people need to use a Series X to experience things like VRR and 120hz when most people here can do so (and better) without?

I scored 27 781 in Time Spy

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}

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I wonder what turned Riky into such a pussy that he doesn't dare to post anymore. Only react to posts.

Reckon he was decommissioned along with the mage guy. All we are left with are the stragglers who are willing to do it for cut prices/benefits.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

VRR + OLED has issues for sure. Nearly every single OLED panel that supports VRR (even the newer $1000-4000 ones) has VRR flicker, from smaller devices, to 240hz monitors, to 85" HDTVs, so I'm not surprised it's noticeable.

Quick googling shows there's no shortage of threads from reddit years back detailing all the VRR issues with the LG CX, like this one.

VRR and G-sync works great on the LCD displays they were originally designed for. Just saying

 

[Bojji]

VRR and G-sync works great on the LCD displays they were originally designed for. Just saying

VA panels also have this, IPS just can't show it due to very low contrast.

Problem lies outside of panel type.

 

[Filben]

I don't know where the opposite sentiment was coming from to begin with. In my experience, VRR only helps with very minor fluctuations and, for the lack of a better word, for "predictable" fps drops/fluctuations. Drops seemingly out of nowhere, like traversal, shader stuff are always noticeable no matter if VRR is on or not. Also, heavy FPS fluctuations are also noticeable simply because you can tell the difference between let's say 50 and 90fps. VRR won't help with the perception of these FPS differences, unless you belong to those people who can't tell 60 from 120 apart.

I still prefer capped FPS in most titles because it gives me the most consistent image and performance. I don't care about a few extra fps if that means noticeable FPS or frame time changes, which I'm sadly very sensible to. However, VRR is still great for me because I hated v-sync induced input lag and I also hated the alternative: screen tearing.

 

[Fbh]

How is it whenever I finally get the tech everyone has been praising for years, it suddenly blows donkey hammer?

It doesn't though?
If you actually watch the video it does a good job explaining what the tech does, where it helps and where it won't magically fix the issue.

At least on Ps5 it has been great for 60fps modes that have drops into the 50's as it makes them way less noticeable. It's also great for the few games that offer unlocked framerates (GOW Ragnarok for example has a great unlocked framerate mode that usually runs at around 80-90fps).

But it's not magic. It's not going to make a game that's constantly jumping between 40-60fps feel like a locked 60fps experience (even with low framerate compensation). It's also not going to make a 48fps game feel as smooth and responsive as a locked 60fps one, because it's only fixing the issue of judder that occurs from the screen getting a number of frames it can't display evenly, it's not doing anything about the fact you are simply getting fewer frames.

Useless feature, learn how to make proper 30 or 60fps locked games. Same for upscaling features, useless. Learn how to make native 1080p games. Optimize your games.

It would only be useless if most console games were actually locked to 60fps (and even then it would be different story on PC).
But since they aren't it's definitely a useful feature.

Now sure, one might argue that the existence of stuff like VRR is giving devs an excusive to not optimize their games properly. But then again consoles have ha a long history of uneven performance since way before VRR became widespread.

 

[cireza]

It would only be useless if most console games were actually locked to 60fps

It is up to the devs to lock their game. Design your game around a constant framerate, rather than throwing in stuff and trying (and ultimately failing) to optimize it at the end.

In the history that I know about, consoles were running almost all their games at a locked 60fps back then on 8/16 bits. You would sometimes get slowdowns, but the vast majority of the games just ran at a locked 60fps. Also arcades. Everything was locked at 60fps.

 

[poppabk]

It is up to the devs to lock their game. Design your game around a constant framerate, rather throwing in stuff and trying (and ultimately failing) to optimize it at the end.

In the history that I know about, consoles were running almost all their games at a locked 60fps back then on 8/16 bits. You would sometimes get slowdowns, but the vast majority of the games just ran at a locked 60fps. Also arcades. Everything was locked at 60fps.

16 bit era ended 30 years ago. If you have 30 years of evidence that games aren't going to lock to 60 fps, maybe it's time to start accepting that this is the norm.

 

[cireza]

16 bit era ended 30 years ago. If you have 30 years of evidence that games aren't going to lock to 60 fps, maybe it's time to start accepting that this is the norm.

Yet there are developers out there who still manage to make games that run perfectly well at 60fps from the day of release.

You can accept shit as the norm if you want, for sure. And contribute making the standards even lower so that in another 30 years, the new norm will be 15 fps.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

VA panels also have this, IPS just can't show it due to very low contrast.

Problem lies outside of panel type.

This is why most computer monitors are IPS

If native contrast was the be-all and end-all of image quality, plasma would still exist today. It doesn't

 

[Fbh]

It is up to the devs to lock their game. Design your game around a constant framerate, rather than throwing in stuff and trying (and ultimately failing) to optimize it at the end.

In the history that I know about, consoles were running almost all their games at a locked 60fps back then on 8/16 bits. You would sometimes get slowdowns, but the vast majority of the games just ran at a locked 60fps. Also arcades. Everything was locked at 60fps.

The history you are talking about was literally 30 years ago.
In the 30 years since, performance on consoles has always been uneven.

I'm not against your core sentiment that devs should focus more on locking down performance, but the truth of the matter is that they simply won't.
So if I can get some tech that will help mitigate some of the performance issues I will take it, and I will find it useful. Forcing myself to get a worse experience just on the principle that devs SHOULD do it different because 30 years ago it was like that doesn't help me in any way.

That said I do tend to prioritize supporting devs that do focus on performance over visuals

 

[Team Andromeda]

Because you still see dropped frames with VRR. Like I said, you fundamentally don't understand how VRR works.



You low IQ deciples are equal parts cute and hilarious. What makes you think that people need to use a Series X to experience things like VRR and 120hz when most people here can do so (and better) without?

I scored 27 781 in Time Spy

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}

www.3dmark.com

Reckon he was decommissioned along with the mage guy. All we are left with are the stragglers who are willing to do it for cut prices/benefits.

Back to your selective insults as well I see. I'm talking about consoles because on the PC you can just usually brute force your way over frame rates.
Overlooking that, I had a smooth experience playing both Medium and Metro on the console.

Maybe instead of insulting people, you should try the games in question on the consoles with VRR on a decent TV you 'might' be surprised at how smooth the experience is.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

How is it whenever I finally get the tech everyone has been praising for years, it suddenly blows donkey hammer?

Because they need to sell you new and shiny tech, which means the previous one is shit by definition, didn’t you know that?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I'm not against your core sentiment that devs should focus more on locking down performance, but the truth of the matter is that they simply won't.

Maybe we would if the gaming media and public would hold them accountable?
Who am I kidding, bullet points taunting “choices that matter” and “world that lives around you” are more important.

 

[GHG]

Back to your selective insults as well I see. I'm talking about consoles because on the PC you can just usually brute force your way over frame rates.
Overlooking that, I had a smooth experience playing both Medium and Metro on the console.

Maybe instead of insulting people, you should try the games in question on the consoles with VRR on a decent TV you 'might' be surprised at how smooth the experience is.

You're not reading, I don't need to, I've been there, done that:

I don't need to play a game running at 30fps with dips to know is going to look like shit regardless, VRR or no VRR. I've seen and experienced it first hand prior to me upgrading my PC, it's not fun. If you're capabale of fooling yourself in to believing it's a good experience because you have no other choice and/or you have a duty to promote the console then that's your problem, not mine.

My previous GPU was a 2070 Super which is right there in terms of capability compared to the current crop of consoles. I also have the following which I've got hooked up to an OLED that has 120hz VRR:

Did I get a good deal or should I have waited (Lenovo Legion 5 Pro)

Lenovo had this great deal on its website: A Lenovo Legion 5 Pro 16" laptop with an AMD 6800H processor and an RTX 3070 card, 1600p 165Hz screen, 16Gb ram, 1TB SSD for 1600 Euro's. The only catch is that it comes without an OS, but those are cheap on the interwebs anyway. Now I wonder if I...

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There is nothing special or different about how consoles do VRR (in fact, it's worse since you get FreeSync, which is inferior to gsync).

So like I said, you can fool/deluded yourself all you want in to thinking VRR makes 30fps games (with drops) like the medium "smooth" on console, it doesn't make it true. But based on your previous musings on this topic it's clear that the only reason you've done this is for reasons identical to that of Riky , at which point this stops being a factual and candid technical discussion for obvious reasons.

It's not working, nobody bought it then, nobody is buying it now.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Wait I didn't think G-sync was a performance thing to begin with, it was just to make screen tare less of an issue.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Gsync is the best thing to happen to gaming since 3DFX Voodoo

 

[Diddy X]

I think we already knew that since the beginning.

 

[mcjmetroid]

DF: Its not a magic bullet

Some of you: They said it's literally shit

C'mon now

About the video: VRR is amazing, but yeah, it's not a magic bullet.

Framegen, on the other hand, is magic

Maybe I'm using framegen wrong but everytime I use it it's screen tearing central. I found it fairly useless for me anyway.

 

[cireza]

The history you are talking about was literally 30 years ago.
In the 30 years since, performance on consoles has always been uneven.

I'm not against your core sentiment that devs should focus more on locking down performance, but the truth of the matter is that they simply won't.
So if I can get some tech that will help mitigate some of the performance issues I will take it, and I will find it useful. Forcing myself to get a worse experience just on the principle that devs SHOULD do it different because 30 years ago it was like that doesn't help me in any way.

That said I do tend to prioritize supporting devs that do focus on performance over visuals

Of course the experience has been uneven, but this is due to developer decisions. This counter argument "it was 30 years ago" is ridiculous. It has always been possible to optimize for 60fps, nothing has changed. Back then on 8/16 bits consoles, you could skip one frame out of two in order to accomplish more. Metal Slug games do this, for example. Always was a choice.

In any case, VRR, DLSS and all this stuff is simply adding even more layers of complexity, on top of making hardware more complicated has it needs even more resources. And it will add its own problems too, like artifacts, situations where it doesn't do a good job, maybe future compatibility issues etc... VRR probably doesn't come at a high cost (but it doesn't offer a great service anyway), but all these algorithms to boost resolution are using dedicated hardware. Doesn't look worth it, especially when you see games like Metroid Prime Remastered basically demonstrating that even the potato that is the Switch can run a 3D game of this visual quality at 60fps. It does so not by adding even more layers of abstraction and complexity, but most certainly by keeping their number at the most reasonable level. Dead or Alive 6 is another example that comes to mind. Absolutely gorgeous game with huge stages, close to instant loadings on base Xbox One (no SSD), 60fps.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You're not reading, I don't need to, I've been there, done that:

I doubt you played the games in question on the consoles in VRR. Still, I'm not sure why you think the Medium is so unstable since even DF said it was a mostly smooth experience and that's even before you add in VRR.

 

[GHG]

I doubt you played the games in question on the consoles in VRR. Still, I'm not sure why you think the Medium is so unstable since even DF said it was a mostly smooth experience and that's even before you add in VRR.

What is it about console VRR that you think would be different to how VRR works on PC?

 

[Klayzer]

What is it about console VRR that you think would be different to how VRR works on PC?

Magic. Xbox magic, presumably.

 

[Team Andromeda]

What is it about console VRR that you think would be different to how VRR works on PC?

I haven't played or owned the games on the PC and well if I'm totally honest, my cheap Ben Q 4K monitor doesn't support 2.1 HDMI or VRR. So I can't even use VRR on the PC if I wanted too and no I'm not going to move the PC and set it up to the LG TV thanks... What I can comment on is that I've played the Medium on both the Series X and PS5 and never had issues with the frame rate on the Series X, the same goes for Metro. My main issue with Metro was the laggy controls, but that was an issue on both consoles