blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
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Digital Foundry: Elden Ring Nightreign Tech Review: No PS5 Pro Support, Core Tech Has Not Improved
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
SKYF@ll
Member
I see, if the developers lower the minimum resolution it will likely stabilize at 60fps.Nah, they just fucking target mid 50fps with their dynamic framerate. CPU requirements of ER are not very high.
Their engine is just set up in a fucking stupid way on PS5 and SX (and PS5 Pro now) - it targets SOMETHING, it's not 60fps for sure, it adjust resolution and settings to hit that target.
Fix for this is quite simple I think (just target 60fps with the lowest dynamic res ~1200p) but they are too retarded to do it. This is game on max settings, 1440p:
PS5 class GPU could do 60fps with drops to mid 50s...
Performance Mode (now)
PS5(XSX): 1512p(Min) , 1587p(AVG) , 2160p(Max) / 55.22fps
PS5 Pro : 1512p(Min) , 1811p(AVG) , 2160p(Max) / 57.28fps
Giallo Corsa
Member
"B...b...but ThE GaMePLaY ! "
"B...b...but DaT ARt-DiReCtIoN !1!1"
amirite ?
Fucking incompetent hacks, listen, i was a fan of FROM but you'd have to be a fanboy nowadays not to acknowledge how incompetent they are when it comes to tech, these assholes, with the money they've been raking since DeS released - and even more so after the BAMCO deal - should have been one of the top companies out there by now when it comes to GFX/tech, not like they give a fuck though since they KNOW that their fanbase will gobble up everything that they release...
Iit's not an industry secret when most of us know even before one of their games releases that it will be sub-par technically wise, in fact, it's expected.
I too was mesmerized by their art-direction and general atmosphere years ago but that stopped with Elden Ring - asset reuse up the ass, animations, sounds, characters that still speak with closed mouths, bad performance etc etc something which, not only comes off as incredibly lazy but actually like they stopped giving 2 fucks more than a decade ago, personally, I can't and won't condone such policies - and I say that as a big Sekiro and Bloodborne fan (easily 2 of my GOATS).
If they were a smaller dev I could have understood but now ? these dudes are supposed to be top dogs in their game and they're also incredibly renowned, and yet, they stopped giving a shit a long time ago, something which is frankly inexcusable - look at Capcom ffs, they make good games and they're one of the top studios when it comes to GFX, it shouldn't be an "either,or" case and yet, their fanbase will forgive everything /keep giving them money, that's why they stopped caring, why put in more work when your product will sell all the same ?
"B...b...but DaT ARt-DiReCtIoN !1!1"
amirite ?
Fucking incompetent hacks, listen, i was a fan of FROM but you'd have to be a fanboy nowadays not to acknowledge how incompetent they are when it comes to tech, these assholes, with the money they've been raking since DeS released - and even more so after the BAMCO deal - should have been one of the top companies out there by now when it comes to GFX/tech, not like they give a fuck though since they KNOW that their fanbase will gobble up everything that they release...
Iit's not an industry secret when most of us know even before one of their games releases that it will be sub-par technically wise, in fact, it's expected.
I too was mesmerized by their art-direction and general atmosphere years ago but that stopped with Elden Ring - asset reuse up the ass, animations, sounds, characters that still speak with closed mouths, bad performance etc etc something which, not only comes off as incredibly lazy but actually like they stopped giving 2 fucks more than a decade ago, personally, I can't and won't condone such policies - and I say that as a big Sekiro and Bloodborne fan (easily 2 of my GOATS).
If they were a smaller dev I could have understood but now ? these dudes are supposed to be top dogs in their game and they're also incredibly renowned, and yet, they stopped giving a shit a long time ago, something which is frankly inexcusable - look at Capcom ffs, they make good games and they're one of the top studios when it comes to GFX, it shouldn't be an "either,or" case and yet, their fanbase will forgive everything /keep giving them money, that's why they stopped caring, why put in more work when your product will sell all the same ?
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Graphics don't matter. Gameplay matters.
I collect VHS tapes
Gold Member
From is apparently already abandoning it for the pro soooo…
Mister Wolf
Member
They are misers
Giallo Corsa
Member
Both matter, if it didn't , we'd be stuck playing pixel art games exclusively.
Also : tell that to the millions of people that go spend a small fortune every year for the latest and greatest Nvidia card.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Performance matters and From sucks in that regard.
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
What i wouldn't give for the next fromsoft game to look as clean as Demon's Souls remake. And that thing is almost 5y old, and fromsoft is generations behind that graphical fidelity, especially in up close textures and lighting.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
You have no idea what you're talking about.
From almost never patches its games with enhancements for pro consoles.
This is no different.
Bojji
Member
DS3 got update (unlocked framerate).
Sekiro had much higher resolution on PS4 Pro/X1X.
PixelatedBeast
Member
Gotta remember that the the Fromsoft director said the graphics of Demon Souls remake made them nervous when making Elden Ring, but I think the sales of the game just told them that they dont have to worry about that since people will just buy it anyway. Now after the DLC and a standalone game 3 years later, they still dont give a fuck, because they just sold 3.5 million copies.
People can say what they want, but if there is a Bloodborne remake, then it needs to be done by Bluepoint or Nixxes. Fromsoft is talented, but they would only upscale the resolution and framerate.
People can say what they want, but if there is a Bloodborne remake, then it needs to be done by Bluepoint or Nixxes. Fromsoft is talented, but they would only upscale the resolution and framerate.
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BiohazardX95
Member
It was never mandated, not even on ps4 , I remember seeing nier replicant launch with Xbox one X 4k support but ps4 version was only 1080p with no ps4 pro support, and that was a 2021 remaster.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Ds3 tech was not dated when it came out.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
But it still had frame pacing issues. That has been From's Achilles heel for all of their 30fps modes, despite being repeatedly pointed out and some modders even fixing it for modded PS4's.
March Climber
Member
Giallo Corsa
There might be a small Fromsoft framerate/graphics backlash next generation (PS6/XBSX2) and not this one.They have been in a very fortunate spot this gen and haven't been called out due to multiple reasons:
-Publishers being scared to leave last gen behind for so long (crossgen games far outlived their time)
-Other AAA devs not quite maxing out the power of the PS5 and XBSX until very recently.
-Other devs having multiple engine issues themselves (RE Engine and UE5 as big examples).
The minute everyone else starts to figure out and fix things, they are either going to have to adapt or be left in the dust graphically/framerate-wise (like many budget anime licensed game devs who ended up finding refuge at the Switch).
Also controversial opinion, I still think Bloodborne was the one moment they felt graphically ahead of almost everyone else…for a short time at least.
MALpractice311
Member
In this topic, a bunch of people who apparently just learned that Fromsoft (a) reuses assets, which saves development time and money and which allows them to make multiple games per generation at a time when many other studios are struggling to release one per generation, and (b) prefers their own in house engine, which, while it has unstable framerares, has lower input lag than many other engines.
SmokSmog
Member
Remember, console CPU is a down-clocked Zen2 with 1/4 the L3 cache.
Cores on PS5/XSX have only direct access to 4MB of L3 because it's a split design with two CCX, 4 core each same as Desktop/Mobile Zen1/2.
3700X 2x16MB L3 (Zen2)
PS5/XSX 2x4MB L3 (Zen2)
5600 32MB L3 (Zen3)
7800X3D 96MB L3 (Zen3)
Cores on PS5/XSX have only direct access to 4MB of L3 because it's a split design with two CCX, 4 core each same as Desktop/Mobile Zen1/2.
3700X 2x16MB L3 (Zen2)
PS5/XSX 2x4MB L3 (Zen2)
5600 32MB L3 (Zen3)
7800X3D 96MB L3 (Zen3)
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Overrated issue. Never was a problem for me with bloodborne even. It's one of most responsive 30fps games on the system
Giallo Corsa
Member
We've also learned that they're still incompetent and that their fans will give them a pass every.single.time.
Capcom uses their inhouse engine also, their games look good AND they release multiple ones per gen.
So, again, what's FROM's excuse ? I know you're gonna say that they're a smaller company but, it still shouldn't be happening since they've been swimming in cash especially after the BAMCO deal where their games reached commercial success.
They're just that kind of company where they just don't care since their games sell either way - it's the epitome of "resting on their laurels".
People, sooner or later are gonna get tired of their shit - I know i am.
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darrylgorn
Member
PeteBull
Member
Yup in the end 1080p to 1440p to 1600p is nice upgrade but kinda meaningless if game still has nasty dips under 50 fps in heavy scenarios, that simply affects gameplay ffs and u need that stable framerate here.
hououinkyouma00
Gold Member
Bloodborne has great art direction but was shimmery aliased mess.
Bojji
Member
Console hardware is not the issue. Elden Ring is PS4 class game.
With how idiotic this engine is set up on consoles even Zen 5 would show the same FPS.
One day i hope you do some sort of written work where you spill the beans on all this shaddy stuff you allude to.Love the product placement of the other console and where they have the PS5 when they unbox the Series X
I am sure its just coincidence though
It would be a fascinating read that, and I'd love it.
I'd love to know about all the stuff crazy stuff you've been told over the years
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Which was normal in 2015. Looked great. 1080p
Physiognomonics
Member
Pro is performing 35% better than PS5 when we combine resolution and framerate difference. But based on power consumption this game seems limited by either bandwidth or CPU or both, not GPU.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
A 30fps game with frame pacing was 'the most responsive' to you?
Ok. You're probably a notable outlier.
DRS isn't that simple I'm afraid. They target 60 but they only know that they have to lower res when they don't hit that 16ms frametime target so what happens is that the frame takes 33ms then now they know "hey we need to drop res for the next frame". now the next frame takes 16ms again but this has already affected your "framerate". Framerate is an average over 1 second so those 33ms frametimes become 58.28fps or whatever once you take that dip and correction into account over that second. It's not really the lower bound that is a problem because you can have framerate drops while hovering in the high 1800p's.
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Giallo Corsa
Member
Man, From software and graphic tech
I fucking love this forum just for these type of posts alone
Love ya Karim
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You mean the DS tech that they never delivered on the lighting from pre-release to release?
You mean the same tech they've been using since then?
Modder is trying to restore Dark Souls 2's original lighting
Dark Souls 2's dreaded lighting may one day return to its glorious first showing.
www.vg247.com
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If the drops are GPU related, aggressive DRS is probably the best solution, if not running the game at a static lower resolution.
Check out that Brazil guy's channel and look at the videos of some games like Indiana Jones. That game's wildly going from 1080p to 1800p within seconds to make sure the frame rate stays on target, and it works great.
But if From's bottlenecks are elsewhere, that won't matter.
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Bernardougf
Member
Lol you should know that by now.
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Bernardougf
Member
CPU is not the problem..running the ps4pro version on the ps5 of Elden Ring was butter smooth without any problems. I played the whole game this way. And the differences for the ps5 version were minimal. So it is graphical assets optimization.
Giallo Corsa
Member
...or lack thereof since this is FROM we're talking about
Don't know guys, I think that this laziness will come back to bite them in the ass sooner or later, this shit can't go on any longer, I mean, Elden Ring was already looking extremely dated when it came out 4 years ago, SOTET released last year and...still the same shit, now, NR released and YET AGAIN, it's the same shit all over again - maybe if people actually voted with their money these hacks would have changed their tune but...
After playing Lords of the Fallen on the PS5 Pro, a proper next gen looking game, I can't go back to the usual FROM visual slop, I just can't...
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Bernardougf
Member
I think is like bethesda and Starfield... just reusing the same old ass engine and animations from 15 years ago will not cut it for much longer.. eventually people wise up and/or other devs take what you make and do better....or lack thereof since this is FROM we're talking about
Don't know guys, I think that this laziness will come back to bite them in the ass sooner or later, this shit can't go on any longer, I mean, Elden Ring was already looking extremely dated when it came out 4 years ago, SOTET released last year and...still the same shit, now, NR released and YET AGAIN, it's the same shit all over again - maybe if people actually voted with their money these hacks would have changed their tune but...
Bluepoint just did an awsome DES remake.. why didint sony let them make their own "souls" game ? Instead of throwing them in the gaas abyss.. by now sony could have their own souls franchise.
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TerribleAtThisGame
Member
If I hear that fucking old ass Demon's Souls fire crackling sfx one more time, I'm taking a shit on Miyazaki's desk.
Yes but my point is that "aggressive DRS" isn't related to the lower bound resolution but related to how it corrects frametime and what frametime it targets. The lower bound res doesn't affect this at all, the delta from detecting a frametime spike does and the frametime target itself.
So say you are rendering at 16ms at 1800p then your DRS says "I can push more in the next frame let me go up to 1900p", the next frame doesnt make the 16ms target and takes 33ms now the DRS says OK let me go back down. It doesn't go down to the lower bound, the lower bound is irrelevant really unless you've hit it, there would be little reason to switch to 1080p from 1900p, it does some delta that it thinks would correct it back to 16ms again.
The game seems to have frametime spikes related to its DRS that affect the average fps but on Pro it doesn't really hit the lower bound but still the average is going below 60 into the high 50s. What From need to do is target a lower than 16ms rendering time/"frametime" and correct DRS for that so that it reacts faster NOT make it overreact with a needlessly low res on the next frame. of course targeting lower than 16ms is also "wasted frametime" in a 60fps mode. It's a delicate balance that isn't really related to the lower bound. only when you consistently struggle to hit 16ms even at the lower bound does the lower bound really become an issue but at higher res the frametime target is more important and the correction it does isn't related to the lower bound.
In IJ the reason you see those high jumps is not because a big jump is a better method for 60fps but because it has massive frametime spikes. It goes from 16ms to 116ms so it thinks it needs to go much lower to correct it back to 16ms. What keeps the average fps though is not related to that jump. It's just a more consistent frametime over one second of gameplay despite the frametime spike.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It is the most reaponsive 30fps game. Yes
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
You'll find a way out of this, we believe in you.
MALpractice311
Member
What I think some people here don't realizeis that there's actual evidence supporting this.
Digital Foundry did some research into this, on jail broken PS4s. When applying the unofficial 30fps with no frame pacing issues patches to the Souls games and Bloodborne and Sekiro, there was apparently a noticeable uptick in input lag, when compared to running the games without the frame pacing fix patches.
MALpractice311
Member
If it bothers you that badly, speak with your wallet. Don't support them. To me though, no other studio in the last 10 or 15 years have put out games I like nearly as much as Fromsoft's catalog and they're the only studio I show up for on day one.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't think an unofficial fan mod, running only on jailbroken hardware, is evidence of anything.