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https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.1f5bb139f2fd

BERLIN — German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who last year opened the door to nearly 1 million mostly Muslim migrants, staked out a tough new stance on conservative Islam on Tuesday by making her first direct call for a widespread ban on “full veil” religious coverings.

Her backing could add Germany to the growing list of European nations imposing restrictions on Islamic coverings as debates sharpen across the continent over religious tolerance, perceived threats to European identity and possible attacks by Islamists.

It also could signal a pragmatic shift to the right for Merkel, who is seeking a fourth term as Germany’s leader. In the wake of Britain’s vote to leave the European Union and the U.S. election of Donald Trump, the tolerant Merkel became seen as among the last guardians of liberal democracy in the West.

Speaking to a cheering conference of her center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU), she used her strongest language yet to back a ban on certain Islamic coverings first proposed by conservatives in her party. Some are calling for a law making it a regulatory offense for women to cover their faces in courtrooms, administrative buildings and schools, as well as while driving or attending demonstrations.

“The full veil is not appropriate here,” Merkel said. “It should be banned wherever it’s legally possible.”

Pretty disappointing to see Germany moving in the same direction as the other big Western countries. I couldn't find any statements from the SPD about this when I looked, hopefully they can do better in the coming election.

 

[Animator]

I don't see anything disappointing about this.

 

[m_shortpants]

I'm Muslim but not a fan of the niqab or burka at all. I honestly don't like it at all, but there are people who choose to wear it out of their own volition.

Not sure how to feel honestly.

 

[qcf x2]

Et tu, Merkel? Fasten your seat belts, we are moving toward dark times.

 

[Lois_Lane]

I don't see anything disappointing about this.

Western states should no be taking a cue from dictatorships and controlling something as personal as dress. Its none of their business.

 

[Chumley]

I don't see anything disappointing about this.

Same. The niqab is a symbol of oppression, full stop.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Why do people act like the situation in Europe is 100% exactly the same as it is in the United States?

Glad to see Merkel move in this direction

 

[Divvy]

I don't understand the logic of people that propose these types of legislations.

What do they think is going to happen? These women are going to abandon their faith of their own volition and face no repercussions from their family or community?

Or are they going to just not go outside anymore?

 

[Back-In-Black]

Good. Religious freedom shouldn't be above civil responsibilities.

What civic responsibility is being trampled by choosing to wear a certain garb?

 

[Marauder Shields]

Nice call. Hijab is fine but the burqa is a joke which should not be tolerated in a civil society.

 

[Vagabundo]

You don't fight oppression with oppressive laws.

Stupid.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Legally possible is the key word because it isnt legally possible to ban media being media again

 

[cress2000]

I have serious doubts this would help anything. Telling people to go against their beliefs will only make them fight harder for them.

 

[NyMartin90]

Same. The niqab is a symbol of oppression, full stop.

There are people who voluntarily wear the niqab.

 

[BocoDragon]

Western states should no be taking a cue from dictatorships and controlling something as personal as dress. Its none of their business.

If you think about it, every nation on earth controls your dress. "Public indecency".

Doesn't automatically make the full veil ban okay.. just saying that the state is already in the business of dress codes.

 

[Jacobi]

She's a populist. Pre-Summer 2015 she claimed the same things, just to get votes. Now she's swinging a bit to the right, because it's the trend. But migration politics that actually make sense? Never.

 

[Xando]

To be fair she talked about public institutions like schools or government buildings.

Widespread public ban would be shot down by our supreme court in no time

Not even sure they would allow a ban at all

This is just to have Seehofer and the CSU appeased

 

[Glass Rebel]

This will have the desired effect but not a desirable one.

 

[fertygo]

I'm muslim but yeah burqa made me feel awkward too

Just hijab is fine

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

What civic responsibility is being trampled by choosing to wear a certain garb?

You think everyone who wears a burka has a choice?

 

[qcf x2]

Nice call. Hijab is fine but the burqa is a joke which should not be tolerated in a civil society.

So what happens when the burqa ban turns into a hijab ban

 

[Xe4]

There are people who voluntarily wear the niqab.

Voluntarily is a funny word. Many people would be disowned by their families if they chose not to.

 

[Des0lar]

Legislate something which doesn't affect more than 400 women in all of Germany. Pandering bullshit and nothing else.

 

[bootsthecat]

So the only rational reason to do something like this, is so that people can't go walking around with their full face (identifying features) obscured. Have there been issues with unsolved crimes as a result of perps wearing muslim garb covering up?

Otherwise, what's the issue?

 

[Escape Goat]

Her stance seems very specific. If you're in a public space you shouldn't be able to hide your identity.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

I'm afraid this could lead to worse things

 

[geomon]

Legislating religion is going to work out really fucking well.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

There are people who voluntarily wear the niqab.

When a little girl is forced to wear it from childhood it's not surprising that they "choose" to keep wearing it when they're adults

 

[Back-In-Black]

To be fair she talked about public institutions like schools or government buildings.

Widespread public ban would be shot down by our supreme court in no time

That makes more sense.

You think everyone who wears a burka has a choice?

You think that women being forced to wear such clothing would be allowed the freedom to dress as they wished if such a ban were in place? If their lives were controlled that much by whoever was controlling them they'd likely force them to stay inside or break the law.

 

[Xe4]

Legislating religion is going to work out really fucking well.

Governments have been legislating religion ever since religion has existed. It's not some new trend.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Illogical.

 

[Kurdel]

I don't know what a Burka ban victory brings, concretely.

You hope that the infinitesimal amount of muslim women in Gemany considering such religious devotion reconsider because they will be sequestering themselves and limiting movement? But if you ascribe to the hypthesis that a Burka is already surrendering your freedom as a woman, what good does codifying this isolation with laws made by the state?

Merkel says she doesn't want parallel societies, but I don't think that isn't something the state can control.

 

[Jacobi]

So what happens when the burqa ban turns into a hijab ban

Sounds like equality to me. Not long ago women in Europe had to wear headscarves and long clothes.

 

[Septic360]

I'm muslim but yeah burqa made me feel awkward too

Just hijab is fine

Soon the hijab will be seen as too much. Some on this very page might already feel that way.

 

[Maxim726X]

You think everyone who wears a burka has a choice?

No? And what of those that do?

 

[His Majesty]

Legislating religion is going to work out really fucking well.

Religion won't be directly legislated I assume. This ban is already in place in multiple countries (Belgium, France, Netherlands) stipulating that it is forbidden to conceal one's face in public. So the ban will not only target the burqa but also balaclava's for example. Sounds like a sensible law to me.

 

[Back-In-Black]

When a little girl is forced to wear it from childhood it's not surprising that they "choose" to keep wearing it when they're adults

You could apply that same logic to literally everything and anything a person does in life. Some people choose of their own free will to wear such garbs, it's not really my place or the government to tell them what they can wear in their own private life.

 

[JABEE]

Nice call. Hijab is fine but the burqa is a joke which should not be tolerated in a civil society.

What makes my clothing choices any better than someone else's cultural choice?

It seems like these kinds of restrictions are made to punish people who think or worship differently. Laws put in place because "others" are now reside in their country. Because someone doesn't assimilate and conform.

 

[NyMartin90]

Voluntarily is a funny word. Many people would be disowned by their families if they chose not to.

Of course, there may be some pressure by families, but can we generalize that every single person who wears the niqab wears it out of fear from families? I don't think we can generalize "many" or all muslims with that statement.

 

[geomon]

Governments have been legislating religion ever since religion has existed. It's not some new trend.

Didn't say it was new. My point is that it's stupid.

 

[Nista]

I have serious doubts this would help anything. Telling people to go against their beliefs will only make them fight harder for them.

Or the conservative muslims that require women to completely cover their face and keep them from being recognizable humans in public society won't move to a county like Germany. Those women have little hope of becoming part of German society anyway even without laws against their clothing.

It's not like the men are ever forced to wear niqab and burka in public. It's a cultural double standard that has been reinforced using religious teaching that doesn't reflect mainstream thought.

 

[DrSlek]

Her stance seems very specific. If you're in a public space you shouldn't be able to hide your identity.

That argument falls apart completely when taking winter clothes into consideration, or motorcyclists who cover their face...or any number of other reasons someone might want to cover their face in public.

 

[Shaanyboi]

The women forced to wear a burka (and yes, it's unarguably a symbol of oppression), aren't suddenly going to be free to wear what they so choose. They're going to be forced to be locked inside their homes.

Nothing is being fixed here.

 

[Septic360]

When a little girl is forced to wear it from childhood it's not surprising that they "choose" to keep wearing it when they're adults

Little kids are forced to wear clothes. Clothes are oppressive. Everyone should be nude. Regardless of them "choosing" to want to wear clothes. Brainwashed. The lot of you!

 

[Chumley]

There are people who voluntarily wear the niqab.

Your definition of voluntarily is curious. In almost all cases it's out of fear of family disowning them, husband abusing them, Stockholm syndrome, etc. they grew up believing that way of life was the norm.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Same. The niqab is a symbol of oppression, full stop.

Agreed with this.

My wife finds it absolutely hypocritical and offensive that a man can wear shorts, flip-flops, and tight tank, while his wife behind him is carrying a 4 year old in 90-degree weather, covered completely head to toe in a dark garment.

It is absolutely oppressive.

 

[CheDominik]

Legally possible is the key word because it isnt legally possible to ban media being media again

Of course you could. Freedom of religion(Art 4 GG) and general personal freedoms (Art 2 GG) can be restricted by law. The only hurdle would be the Supreme Court ruling that theoretical benefits(you could argue for Equality (Art. 3 II GG) and general security concerns) don't outweigh the violation of the aforementionted rights.

 

[gutter_trash]

this is besides the point

Merkel has to make ground for the next elections, you really don't want the Far-Right to take her place

 

[d00d3n]

You don't fight oppression with oppressive laws.

Stupid.

Tell that to the right wing fascists that will control Germany unless Merkel takes steps to the right. Or to the millions of newly arrived migrants that would have to live under the rule of said fascists.

 

[Soldiussnaku]

As a Muslim I'm fine with this. Full veil covering on the face is a sign of oppression, nothing else, that us fucking Muslims needed to outlaw generations ago. Same for gloves too. But no we just let it foster until the rest of the world just looked at us with berwilderment and scorn.

The oppressive males and females who don't like it can, frankly, change their views or be lambasted by society and law because of them.