Ziltoidia 9
Member
The GOPs plans were to try and get their bucketlist done. Too bad they arn't going to get that done before they are no longer in power.
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WaPo Op: Comeys statement is sufficient evidence for an obstruction of justice case.
- Thread starter KSweeley
- Start date
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
People talking about 'impeachment never happening'.
A president can still be found guilty of crimes.
A president can still be found guilty of crimes.
I feel like you need to explain that this is a mean girls quote lol. Most people won't get it haha
No i heard when the president does it that means it's not illegal and trump can pardon himself of treason
Saucycarpdog
Member
Republicans could let Trump get away with full blown treason and it would barely affect their numbers. There are unfortunately large groups of Americans that will never vote anything other than republican either because of tradition or only really care about one issue that republicans support.
If Trump's numbers dip into the low-20's then sure, but it'd take proof of him licking Putin's metaphorical nutsack for that to happen.
WiiredShawn
Member
Donald Trump is the personification of America's Id. Every terrible impulse of our society - sexism, racism, bigotry, poor attention, poor communication, authoritarianism, the fetishization of rich white men, the hunger for drama and power, superficiality, anti-intellectualism, a lack of professionalism, a lack of accountability, the yearning for scapegoats, the conflation of appearance with reality -- Trump exhibits.
Going after Trump means going after the chaos underlying the America psyche. I think that's part of why it's so difficult - he represents a lot of things that people crave, even if they know they shouldn't.
I just hope America's superego wins this contest eventually.
Trump is only 4 points ahead of where Nixon was before the GOP began turned on him. I do think they will try to resist longer with Trump because they have been unable to get anything done and once Trump is gone they are lame duck until 2020.
They need to try and rush some stuff through. Senate did just put the AHCA on a fast track for hearings.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
A president can pardon himself?
Jeez, guess that constitution isn't really meant to serve a country. Sounds like it was made by a bunch of rich men who-- oooohhh!!.
No, I don't think you understand how this works. As evidenced by your "post me an article" phrase.
Any prosecutor can indict the President, which he can then appeal. This appeal would be granted in 99% of the cases due to his job of being the President but it would be almost certainly not be granted in this case. This is wholly an unprecedented process but the basic fact is that yes, the President can be indicted.
I suggest you take a good read of this
http://scholarlycommons.law.hofstra.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2059&context=hlr
Its an unanswered question really. A President cannot issue pardon in cases of impeachment but the constitution does not go into detail on if he could pardon himself to avoid impeachment from being started.
It would be a Supreme court decision for sure.
I don't think you understand any of this at all. That paper is an argument for a position, not an authority. Go read how Nixon worked, I'll wait.
KernelPanic
Member
Funny that the only person charged so far in the Russia influencing the elections is the person who leaked a document on how far they went to try and influence the elections.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/07/it-w...ring-an-obstruction-charge-against-trump.html
""It's generally believed that you cannot indict a sitting president because that would paralyze the government," said Coffee. "And because impeachment is the constitutional procedure created to remove a president."
Any formal charge of obstruction against Trump would rest heavily on the exact wording of any exchange with intelligence or law enforcement officials, he said. Short of impeachment, it's unlikely such an obstruction charge would be brought directly against Trump by the current Justice Department, said Coffee."
""It's generally believed that you cannot indict a sitting president because that would paralyze the government," said Coffee. "And because impeachment is the constitutional procedure created to remove a president."
Any formal charge of obstruction against Trump would rest heavily on the exact wording of any exchange with intelligence or law enforcement officials, he said. Short of impeachment, it's unlikely such an obstruction charge would be brought directly against Trump by the current Justice Department, said Coffee."
BudokaiMR2
Member
I just don't think it is that clear cut in this case.
Sure, his approval numbers are way too high for being the piece of trash that he is and Nixon and others did drop down into the 20s during their terms.
However, it's important to remember that even at their highest point Trump's approval numbers have been abysmal. Has he ever been above 50%?
It's definitely not as clear cut and easy as others clamoring for impeachment are making it out to be, but I really do think we are starting to reach the point where Republican's instinct for self-preservation might be enough for them to turn on him. Maybe.
You can say this till your face turns blue but none of what I said is incorrect. If, Mueller decided to indict Trump then the Supreme Court would immediately try Trumps immunity. They would then determine of he's indeed immune or not but its far from a fargone conclusion as you are presenting it.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
by the current Justice Department
Does this mean the special counsel can do it?
With a sessions DOJ, there isn't a DOJ in america right now. It's corrupt.
Does this mean the special counsel can do it?
With a sessions DOJ, there isn't a DOJ in america right now. It's corrupt.
What you're describing is literally unprecedented and would represent a massive change to the US Constitution in regards to checks on the Presidency. Right now it's a legal theory and nothing more.
Speaking in the world of reality and precedent, if Congress don't do anything then shit happens.
Sessions is recused, it'd be up to Rosenstein.
nintendoman58
Member
Some of you people are desperate in your attempts to make other people feel your defeatism.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
Here's another op-ed that says an indictment is unlikely
James Comey's testimony doesn't make the case for impeachment or obstruction against Donald Trump
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...impeachment-jonathan-turley-column/102603050/
I don't think an indictment is coming
And if nothing comes out of Russia and the "cloud", it's gonna look bad on the democrats
James Comey's testimony doesn't make the case for impeachment or obstruction against Donald Trump
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...impeachment-jonathan-turley-column/102603050/
I don't think an indictment is coming
And if nothing comes out of Russia and the "cloud", it's gonna look bad on the democrats
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I've already said its unprecedented. This whole ordeal is unprecedented.
No, it wouldnt change the Constitution. The now expired EGA established after Watergate allows an independent counsel the full power of the DoJ to prosecute whomever. The DoJ could reinstate this at anytime. Checks and balances work both ways. Congress is not allowed to hold a corrupt President unchecked.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Schattenjäger;239583401 said:
I guess it's all up to the interpretation of "threats" to influence the investigation. That's the wildcard, is how the testimony sounds and how it's interpreted. The other two are denying that they felt any pressure but Comey may go a different way.
I just hope that if the Comey testimony ends up being weak or requires a huge leap of logic to interpret as "threatening" this gets dropped and we can all move on. But that will never happen.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
"I helped prosecute watergate" says the WaPo author.Schattenjäger;239583401 said:
You can be damn sure special counsel is going to look at how Nixon's case went in detail for guidelines. They might even get one of those watergate people onboard at some point.
Move on from what?
Special counsel doesn't give a shit what the corrupt congress does. Or what the DOJ does.
They will gather evidence and prosecute.
nhlducks35
Member
kitsunelaine
Banned
People are suffocating in this smoke but there's still no dang fire visible!
theclosetfan
Member
Schattenjäger;239583401 said:
Nothing came out of Benghazi or Emails (or Whitewater/Lewinski) and the Republicans seem to be managing just fine at winning elections after.
nintendoman58
Member
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
Valid point
But I think the timing (right after a huge upset election and at the start of a new administration) doesn't help
Yeah the defeatist attitude around here is honestly getting annoying because we had the "nothing will come of this" mindset back when people thought an independent investigation was impossible. Now we have Judge Dredd going after Trump, Trumps approval ratings are dropping, and his base is eroding. Stuff is coming from this. The defeatist stuff is basically thread derail material now.
Killer Queen
Banned
Ignore it then
That's actually probably the most realistic outcome.
BlastProcessing
Member
You just need to improve your ability to force others to think the way you think.
nintendoman58
Member
Anyone who thinks that nothing will come of this needs to look at the entire list of events that have led up to this point.
It's ridiculous at this point to still hear this. I get that we all want Trump out of there now, but these things take a lot of time, folks.
It's ridiculous at this point to still hear this. I get that we all want Trump out of there now, but these things take a lot of time, folks.
I would say a large portion of us do, but people get hyped on the good old fashion witch hunt that think we're going to hang or burn Trump at the stake. Also, you can't ignore it when CNN plays nothing but "OMFG Trump just did this!!!" 24/7... I mean literally... what the fuck is wrong with them?
GameAddict411
Member
Didn't the RNC say that Comey's statement showed how innocent Trump is? lol If the GOP is that out of touch with reality, it might be impossible to impeach Trump's administration. I think the best course now is for people to get politically energized and start a grass root movement that will let the democrats get a chance to get some leverage back, or else we are stuck with him until 2020. We have to be realistic about it and act accordingly. If we set back and hope for expedited impeachment hearing you are no less delusional than that RNC official statement.
everyday math
Banned
Why wouldn't they cover the biggest news story of our time?
Besides the obvious, it's getting them good ratings.
minor effort
Banned
Yeah. At this point the obstruction is far easier and far closer to being proven than the collusion itself. The collusion case was always going to take a long time - years, likely - to build, with no assurance it would ever conclusively implicate Trump.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
What the fuck is this even supposed to mean? We are moving on. We're moving on with actual hearings.
Killer Queen
Banned
I mean, there's always Fox news.
If people want to get hyped let them, if you don't no one is dragging you into these threads anf there are news stations that completely ignore all of this.
makes sense. statistics show it's not the fire that kills you, its the smoke inhalation.
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